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[US Foreign Policy] is still practicing drone diplomacy

KarozKaroz Registered User regular
edited February 27 in Debate and/or Discourse
moniker wrote:
A new thread to discuss US policy towards other nations in war and peace.

On January 3rd, 2020 the President of the United States ordered an airstrike against Iranian General Qassem Soleimani at the Baghdad International Airport in Iraq. The head of the IRGC Quds forces and somewhat equivalent to DNI, Joint Chief, and shadowy Secretary of State rolled together. The assassination of Soleimani occurred without informing Congressional Leadership, which is required by law [ 50 U.S.C. § 3091(a)(1) ] due to Congress having sole warmaking powers under the Constitution. (though having granted the Executive a wide berth for exigencies under the War Powers Act, this was not an extraordinary circumstance) As of now Iran has condemned the assassination by our government, and has made threats of unspecified reprisals in response.

At approximately 5:30 p.m. (EST) on January 7, Iran launched more than a dozen ballistic missiles against U.S. military and coalition forces in Iraq. It is clear that these missiles were launched from Iran and targeted at least two Iraqi military bases hosting U.S. military and coalition personnel at Al-Assad and Irbil.

The Electoral College has been hell on Iraq.

What will happen next? Events, dear boy, events.

...oh yeah that happened.

Recent highlights:

Putin to retire in 2021 due to Parkinson concerns

Abu Muhammad al-Masri (Al Qaeda’s No. 2) was apparently assassinated in Iran on August 7th though unknown who did the deed or called for it to happen since Trump didn't say a peep.

China and 14 other Asia-Pacific countries agree to world’s largest trade pact called the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP)

Trump sought options to attack Iran to stop its Nuclear Program

Trump leaves the Open Skies treaty with Russia and dismantles specialty aircraft and ability to replace them
moniker wrote:
*************
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
*************

The Russian investigation, and related issues: Mueller Russian Investigation Thread
Sundry other corrupt practices: The numerous other Trump investigation and Impeachment threads.
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Canada specific things and poutine : Canada Thread
BREXIT: Hiberno-Brittania thread
Venezuela? : South America Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Firings and Hirings of Senior Government positions: Trump Cabinet Thread

*************

The previous thread

Karoz on
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Posts

  • ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Well, this doesn't portend well. It looks increasingly likely that regimes that Trump favors (Israel, Saudis, Russia, UAE, probably people like Erdogan and Duterte too) are going to take this opportunity to get their kicks/crimes in before Biden takes over.

    Expect to see the usual suspects (Iran, Kurds, Yemen, Ukraine) get hammered for 2 months while Trump focuses on improving his golf cheating swing.

    Heck, even Syria might try their luck again.

    IncenjucarTicaldfjamForarGiantGeek2020MrVyngaardJazzBigJoeMShadowfireMild ConfusionJragghenshrykeLord_Asmodeus
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Also posted in the Internets thread, but relevant to foreign policy too, because looky, Trump's latest tantrum threatens to defund the military.

    Looks like he's going all in on Section 230.

    Donald J. Trump Twitter (not direct linking, cause fuuuuuuuck that guy).
    ".....Therefore, if the very dangerous & unfair Section 230 is not completely terminated as part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), I will be forced to unequivocally VETO the Bill when sent to the very beautiful Resolute desk. Take back America NOW. Thank you!"

    So... either get rid of the only thing keeping Twitter from punting him, or disband the US military if Republicans don't vote to overrule.

    Don't threaten me with a good time.

    JragghenMild ConfusionJazzKaputaMagellElvenshae
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Also posted in the Internets thread, but relevant to foreign policy too, because looky, Trump's latest tantrum threatens to defund the military.

    Looks like he's going all in on Section 230.

    Donald J. Trump Twitter (not direct linking, cause fuuuuuuuck that guy).
    ".....Therefore, if the very dangerous & unfair Section 230 is not completely terminated as part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), I will be forced to unequivocally VETO the Bill when sent to the very beautiful Resolute desk. Take back America NOW. Thank you!"

    So... either get rid of the only thing keeping Twitter from punting him, or disband the US military if Republicans don't vote to overrule.

    Don't threaten me with a good time.

    It would also probably shut down the forums.

    SleepDark_SideCommander Zoom
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    He’s going to veto the NDAA... So they can just pass it again on Jan 21?

    “I have no real leverage, but I will not hesitate to mildly inconvenience you for DAYS! WEEKS even!”

    Jealous Deva on
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    He’s going to veto the NDAA... So they can just pass it again on Jan 21?

    “I have no real leverage, but I will not hesitate to mildly inconvenience you for DAYS! WEEKS even!”
    His veto would almost certainly be overridden

    wbBv3fj.png
  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular


    Vox national security reporter.

    Oh shit, a whole modicum? Guess all those dollars and lives were totally worth it!

    TicaldfjamElvenshaeGiantGeek2020DarkPrimusToxIncenjucarTraceDark Raven XFencingsaxRickRudeGnome-InterruptusVishNubMagellLord_AsmodeusAistanTryCatcherCelestialBadgerEinzelkimeKayne Red RobeKetBraCommander Zoomemp123
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    Vox national security reporter.

    Oh shit, a whole modicum? Guess all those dollars and lives were totally worth it!

    Shhh! Don't spook them.

    This is the reasoning you are always gonna see because nobody is gonna release a statement saying "We lost, time to bail" or "We can't accomplish anything here, so we're leaving".

    GiantGeek2020Havelock2.0DocGnome-InterruptusCelestialBadgerkimeCommander Zoom
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    Vox national security reporter.

    Oh shit, a whole modicum? Guess all those dollars and lives were totally worth it!

    Shhh! Don't spook them.

    This is the reasoning you are always gonna see because nobody is gonna release a statement saying "We lost, time to bail" or "We can't accomplish anything here, so we're leaving".

    Yeah, its like the way one of my history professors presented the Sino-Vietnamese war.

    “In response to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, China launched a force of 200,000 soldiers on a punitive expedition into Vietnam. After losing a quarter of their forces in less than two months from guerrilla fighting and local militias prior to even engaging the regular Vietnamese army, the Chinese decided that Vietnam had been sufficiently punished and went home.”

    MosatiElvenshaeDarkPrimusZonugalTicaldfjamHappylilElfCalicazagdrobFencingsaxBlackDragon480RingoHavelock2.0VishNubMagellLord_AsmodeusTynnanHefflingkimeCommander Zoomemp123
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular

    This is the most racist and ignorant US Senator I have seen. A lifetime bitch.

    Chen Weihua is state-affiliated Chinese media, talking about Senator Blackburn

    ShadowfirepainfulPleasanceTicaldfjamJaysonFourGaddezYamiB.
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I'm so conflicted! Bitch is a pretty loaded word all things considered. But also, Blackburn is racist and ignorant. But also also, I'm sad that only Chinese media will say that.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    ElvenshaeTicaldfjamBlackDragon480Gnome-Interruptuskimelonelyahava
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I'm so conflicted! Bitch is a pretty loaded word all things considered. But also, Blackburn is racist and ignorant. But also also, I'm sad that only Chinese media will say that.

    Someone in the Chinese government seems to have decided that going full asshole is the way forward. The doctored photo of the Australian soldier, ripping on NZ PM Jacinda Ardern when she chimed in on that, this tweet.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    TicaldfjamJragghenHappylilElfTryCatcher
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    Vox national security reporter.

    Oh shit, a whole modicum? Guess all those dollars and lives were totally worth it!

    Shhh! Don't spook them.

    This is the reasoning you are always gonna see because nobody is gonna release a statement saying "We lost, time to bail" or "We can't accomplish anything here, so we're leaving".

    At this point it's pretty clear that us staying in Afghanistan is just nobody wanting to be the the loser and all it achieves is slowly grinding away more American and Afghani lives and treasure. It's been clear since Bush was still in office that we had no clear goal or victory condition, and even if we somehow came up with one there is neither a path nor will to do what is necessary to achieve it.

    If Trump is the one who takes the L on his watch and it gets us out of there...assuming it's not a Vietnam / Syria style 'see ya' pull out that leaves all our allies to be slaughtered in retribution as everything collapses around them, I'd say it's one good thing that Trump managed to accomplish on the way out the door. Broken clocks and blind squirrels and all that.

    FencingsaxGaddez
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    Vox national security reporter.

    Oh shit, a whole modicum? Guess all those dollars and lives were totally worth it!

    Shhh! Don't spook them.

    This is the reasoning you are always gonna see because nobody is gonna release a statement saying "We lost, time to bail" or "We can't accomplish anything here, so we're leaving".

    At this point it's pretty clear that us staying in Afghanistan is just nobody wanting to be the the loser and all it achieves is slowly grinding away more American and Afghani lives and treasure. It's been clear since Bush was still in office that we had no clear goal or victory condition, and even if we somehow came up with one there is neither a path nor will to do what is necessary to achieve it.

    If Trump is the one who takes the L on his watch and it gets us out of there...assuming it's not a Vietnam / Syria style 'see ya' pull out that leaves all our allies to be slaughtered in retribution as everything collapses around them, I'd say it's one good thing that Trump managed to accomplish on the way out the door. Broken clocks and blind squirrels and all that.

    That's a pretty big assumption, given tgat the latter one happened under this President, and I can't seeing him give two shits as to the consequences, especially those of non-US forces, even in the best of times. With six weeks left in his tenure, it's going to be a clusterfuck for any local support.

    Note, I can't see him giving a shit about US forces either, but I can see there being some attempt to convince him otherwise, especially if he plans to run again.

    TicaldfjamshrykeJragghenGiantGeek2020
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Something confused me about the assassination. They said he was in a bulletproof car, heard gunshots, and got out of the bulletproof car? How does that make sense?

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular

    I'm just going to black out for a minute hang on

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
    BlackDragon480FencingsaxSkeithIncenjucarGONG-00Gnome-InterruptusShadowfireLord_AsmodeusAegisEchoemp123
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »

    I'm just going to black out for a minute hang on

    Someone post that panel of the clawshrimp comic, because good fucking gods.

    ElvenshaeTicaldfjamRingoKayne Red Robe
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Apparently Trump, master negotiator, offered Morocco three billion dollars to continue not having full diplomatic relations with Israel.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-morocco-trump.html#click=https://t.co/iqkAoUqnG0
    A senior Trump administration official confirmed on Thursday that the development office was considering investments worth up to $3 billion in Morocco over three years, but said they were not linked to the reconciliation with Israel.

    Correction:

    We have offered Morocco three percent of their GDP to... say they will do that but not actually require them to?

    We also agreed to recognize Morocco's claim to the contested Western Sahara region and stick a US consulate in said territory.

    I don't know more about the conflict than one can glean from Wikipedia in 10 minutes, but Morocco apparently built a road there last month, and the local power declared it an act of war and withdrew from a 30 year cease-fire. Seems like a bad time to start shopping for real estate.

    A cynical person might think that was the point.

    Not me though. I'm sure Trump just earnestly believes the gentle caress of US imperialism will help everyone relax.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Its pretty much your classic decolonization civil war.

    Independence was granted to the area, a left wing government took over, Morrocco invaded with the blessing of US and Europe, took over 2/3 of country, Mauritania was given the rest in a peace agreement but decided they were going to grant it independence instead of running it, Morrocco invaded that part in response, after some back and forth Morrocco had the coastal 2/3 of the country and the local left wing govt the interior 1/3 or so, both sides landmined all the area on the border and there you are.

    Morrocco has been settling their part of the country with settlers and generally oppressing the native people in the same manner as china/tibet, israel/palestine, etc. Meanwhile algeria quietly supports the native government because they have a substantial population of the same ethnic group in their country they want to keep happy.

    So the usual postcolonization clusterfuck.

    DoodmannBlackDragon480TicaldfjamArbitraryDescriptorFencingsaxCalicaKayne Red Robe
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    The Trump administration remains on course to complete a controversial $23 billion arms sale to the United Arab Emirates after bipartisan Senate efforts to block the deal failed to gain enough support to clear a critical procedural hurdle Wednesday.
    ...
    But the senators who tried to block the deal aren’t convinced that the UAE is yet a reliable enough ally to handle the United States’ most sensitive military equipment. They pointed out that the UAE has a troubling record when it comes to addressing the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, fomented for years by the Saudi-led bombing campaign there. Citing evidence that the weapons sold to the UAE previously ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda-linked militias inside Yemen, they also questioned whether the UAE had proved itself capable of protecting some of the most sensitive American military technology. And they noted that the UAE’s defense relationships with Russia and China make the stakes of the UAE’s trustworthiness particularly steep.
    ...
    Last year, the Senate and House voted to block several arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE, but Trump vetoed the measures and lawmakers could not muster enough support for an override. During those votes, a handful of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to block the arms deals; during Wednesday’s votes, two Democrats — Arizona Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Mark Kelly — joined all Republicans but Paul in voting to sustain them.
    Thanks for paying back the nationwide support for your campaigns Kyrsten and Mark!
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-uae-weapons-sales-senate/2020/12/09/ae9abca6-3a59-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    The Trump administration remains on course to complete a controversial $23 billion arms sale to the United Arab Emirates after bipartisan Senate efforts to block the deal failed to gain enough support to clear a critical procedural hurdle Wednesday.
    ...
    But the senators who tried to block the deal aren’t convinced that the UAE is yet a reliable enough ally to handle the United States’ most sensitive military equipment. They pointed out that the UAE has a troubling record when it comes to addressing the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, fomented for years by the Saudi-led bombing campaign there. Citing evidence that the weapons sold to the UAE previously ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda-linked militias inside Yemen, they also questioned whether the UAE had proved itself capable of protecting some of the most sensitive American military technology. And they noted that the UAE’s defense relationships with Russia and China make the stakes of the UAE’s trustworthiness particularly steep.
    ...
    Last year, the Senate and House voted to block several arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE, but Trump vetoed the measures and lawmakers could not muster enough support for an override. During those votes, a handful of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to block the arms deals; during Wednesday’s votes, two Democrats — Arizona Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Mark Kelly — joined all Republicans but Paul in voting to sustain them.
    Thanks for paying back the nationwide support for your campaigns Kyrsten and Mark!
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-uae-weapons-sales-senate/2020/12/09/ae9abca6-3a59-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

    Was this a pork thing, or an idealogical thing?

    I'd rather it be the former, cause disgusting as arms sales to those assholes might be, they were elected to represent their constituency, not the generic "left", and if it means their local industries would be hurt as a result of the veto, I can at least understand it in that way.

    But if it's "We don't care if rich brown people blow up poor brown people" then yeah, fuck them very much.

    TicaldfjamRingo
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    The Trump administration remains on course to complete a controversial $23 billion arms sale to the United Arab Emirates after bipartisan Senate efforts to block the deal failed to gain enough support to clear a critical procedural hurdle Wednesday.
    ...
    But the senators who tried to block the deal aren’t convinced that the UAE is yet a reliable enough ally to handle the United States’ most sensitive military equipment. They pointed out that the UAE has a troubling record when it comes to addressing the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, fomented for years by the Saudi-led bombing campaign there. Citing evidence that the weapons sold to the UAE previously ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda-linked militias inside Yemen, they also questioned whether the UAE had proved itself capable of protecting some of the most sensitive American military technology. And they noted that the UAE’s defense relationships with Russia and China make the stakes of the UAE’s trustworthiness particularly steep.
    ...
    Last year, the Senate and House voted to block several arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE, but Trump vetoed the measures and lawmakers could not muster enough support for an override. During those votes, a handful of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to block the arms deals; during Wednesday’s votes, two Democrats — Arizona Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Mark Kelly — joined all Republicans but Paul in voting to sustain them.
    Thanks for paying back the nationwide support for your campaigns Kyrsten and Mark!
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-uae-weapons-sales-senate/2020/12/09/ae9abca6-3a59-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

    Was this a pork thing, or an idealogical thing?

    I'd rather it be the former, cause disgusting as arms sales to those assholes might be, they were elected to represent their constituency, not the generic "left", and if it means their local industries would be hurt as a result of the veto, I can at least understand it in that way.

    But if it's "We don't care if rich brown people blow up poor brown people" then yeah, fuck them very much.

    They are gonna be fairly conservative democratic Senators. Any pickups the Dems make in the Senate will be. Basically be definition since that's where the seats exist to be picked up.

    Gnome-InterruptusFencingsaxBlackDragon480
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Air Force Plant 44 is in Tuscon (and a Superfund Site!), but I don't agree that makes it any better. Defense manufacturing is in every state, and and every other Democrat voted against it. The military industrial complex is so huge the jerbs impact must be marginal.

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    The Trump administration remains on course to complete a controversial $23 billion arms sale to the United Arab Emirates after bipartisan Senate efforts to block the deal failed to gain enough support to clear a critical procedural hurdle Wednesday.
    ...
    But the senators who tried to block the deal aren’t convinced that the UAE is yet a reliable enough ally to handle the United States’ most sensitive military equipment. They pointed out that the UAE has a troubling record when it comes to addressing the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, fomented for years by the Saudi-led bombing campaign there. Citing evidence that the weapons sold to the UAE previously ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda-linked militias inside Yemen, they also questioned whether the UAE had proved itself capable of protecting some of the most sensitive American military technology. And they noted that the UAE’s defense relationships with Russia and China make the stakes of the UAE’s trustworthiness particularly steep.
    ...
    Last year, the Senate and House voted to block several arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE, but Trump vetoed the measures and lawmakers could not muster enough support for an override. During those votes, a handful of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to block the arms deals; during Wednesday’s votes, two Democrats — Arizona Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Mark Kelly — joined all Republicans but Paul in voting to sustain them.
    Thanks for paying back the nationwide support for your campaigns Kyrsten and Mark!
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-uae-weapons-sales-senate/2020/12/09/ae9abca6-3a59-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

    Was this a pork thing, or an idealogical thing?

    I'd rather it be the former, cause disgusting as arms sales to those assholes might be, they were elected to represent their constituency, not the generic "left", and if it means their local industries would be hurt as a result of the veto, I can at least understand it in that way.

    But if it's "We don't care if rich brown people blow up poor brown people" then yeah, fuck them very much.
    I can't see what ideology would lead to such a decision; I assume they are just bought out. The second part of your post - racism and indifference to violent deaths of foreigners - is true of those Democratic Senators either way, though. If you sacrifice lives for money, then you evidently don't care very much about those lives.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    They might think they need to do this for upcoming elections NOT against Martha McSally

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing we were talking about back during the primaries re: Medicare for All and why it couldn't get the votes. There's a path for the Democrats to get to 50+ votes in the Senate, but it goes through Senators that are not going to be voting on a hard left agenda. There is sadly a huge lack of Sherrod Browns in the US.

    Gnome-InterruptusArbitraryDescriptor
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    The Trump administration remains on course to complete a controversial $23 billion arms sale to the United Arab Emirates after bipartisan Senate efforts to block the deal failed to gain enough support to clear a critical procedural hurdle Wednesday.
    ...
    But the senators who tried to block the deal aren’t convinced that the UAE is yet a reliable enough ally to handle the United States’ most sensitive military equipment. They pointed out that the UAE has a troubling record when it comes to addressing the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, fomented for years by the Saudi-led bombing campaign there. Citing evidence that the weapons sold to the UAE previously ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda-linked militias inside Yemen, they also questioned whether the UAE had proved itself capable of protecting some of the most sensitive American military technology. And they noted that the UAE’s defense relationships with Russia and China make the stakes of the UAE’s trustworthiness particularly steep.
    ...
    Last year, the Senate and House voted to block several arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE, but Trump vetoed the measures and lawmakers could not muster enough support for an override. During those votes, a handful of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting to block the arms deals; during Wednesday’s votes, two Democrats — Arizona Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Mark Kelly — joined all Republicans but Paul in voting to sustain them.
    Thanks for paying back the nationwide support for your campaigns Kyrsten and Mark!
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-uae-weapons-sales-senate/2020/12/09/ae9abca6-3a59-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

    Was this a pork thing, or an idealogical thing?

    I'd rather it be the former, cause disgusting as arms sales to those assholes might be, they were elected to represent their constituency, not the generic "left", and if it means their local industries would be hurt as a result of the veto, I can at least understand it in that way.

    But if it's "We don't care if rich brown people blow up poor brown people" then yeah, fuck them very much.

    They are gonna be fairly conservative democratic Senators. Any pickups the Dems make in the Senate will be. Basically be definition since that's where the seats exist to be picked up.
    Unless I'm mistaken about the context, the comparison between the vote to sanction KSA last year, and keeping what I am assuming is a line item in the current NDAA(?), may, on a policy level, not be as useful a comparison as it seems.

    That said, selling the good shit to UAE is probably going break along more nuanced lines than left/right. I'm picturing a Venn diagram with Hawks/doves transposed over various theories about what a stable ME power balance looks like.

    There are humanitarian concerns, natsec concerns, differing opinions as to whether it will increase or decrease stability, and probably about whether increasing stability is even the goal... looking at you, here, Rapture death-cultists.




    ArbitraryDescriptor on
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Only two Democrats voted for and only one Republican voted against (Rand Paul's customary single annual not evil vote), so I really don't see the nuance.

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • RingoRingo He/Him Bury me at Lone Tree DenRegistered User regular
    They might think they need to do this for upcoming elections NOT against Martha McSally

    It's this. Sinema and Kelly (and the AZ Democratic party in general) believe that there is a tightrope that they can walk that will allow them to grow their incumbency advantage until they are just as beloved an institution as John McCain was and get the free pass he enjoyed for his last 15 years.

    Also it's stupid bullshit. Republicans need no stronger motivation to vote against you than the (D) next to your name, you cannot win them over without the support of Fox News, and you aren't going to get that. The GOP will endeavor to make sure absolutely nothing is accomplished by the government so neither Sinema nor Kelly will have anything to hang their hats on and get swept out of office the next time Arizona decides that their problems can be fixed by more racism

    The sad part is it may also be the 'best' play that the AZ Dems have right now - the only way to actually have accomplishments to run on is to hold onto those senate seats until they have a majority

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Coinage wrote: »
    Only two Democrats voted for and only one Republican voted against (Rand Paul's customary single annual not evil vote), so I really don't see the nuance.

    I don't doubt that the AZ Senator's might prove to be generally more conservative, just that it is a one-dimensional metric ill-suited to for predicting or defining a position on things like this.

    Consider:

    Sinema approved the sale of Reapers and F-35s.
    Kelly approved the former and blocked the latter.
    Joe Manchin voted to block both.

    Kelly obviously isn't too concerned about the UAE being able to fire hellfires at Yemeni school buses to give them the means, but is concerned about giving them access to the F-35.

    Whatever rationale resulted in him splitting the difference between Sinema and Manchin, it's hard to imagine in terms of conservative or liberal. The The potential ramifications of providing or withholding killbots and stealth fighters to/from anyone in that region leaves plenty of room for Manchin and Sinema to have reached the same positions as Kelly from entirely different angles rather than simply from the left or right.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    They might think they need to do this for upcoming elections NOT against Martha McSally

    This implies that McSally was appointed twice despite the existence of some hypothetical republican NotSally who was interested in the job?

    Seems a little far fetched.

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Would this be the threat to talk about the enormous US cybersecurity breach that has apparently been going on for most of this year?

    NPR summary:
    https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/946776718/u-s-scrambles-to-understand-major-computer-hack-but-says-little

    Mosati
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    As I mentioned in other threads, this week has been hell. This was, in essence, a carpet bombing of trusted supply chains to target what appears to be fewer than 50 organizations and entities around the world. The amount of disruption this is causing is just... ugh.

    Microsoft's president released a statement on it last night:
    https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2020/12/17/cyberattacks-cybersecurity-solarwinds-fireeye/

    I agree pretty much with all the points, though at the back of my mind I was thinking of the Shadowrun "Grid Overwatch Division" or GOD when they were talking about information sharing and coordination in thwarting cyberattacks and malicious actors. I'm not opposed, per se, but... again, got my dystopian nerves up.

    But the frank matter is, a nation-state linked actor did this. All signs point to Russia. And now the little guys need to deal with the fallout.

    He/Him
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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Pompeo just said on camera Russia was behind it.

    Anyone taking bets on who the new Secretary of State will be this weekend?

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  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Trump recently tweeted downplaying the hack, blamed the media for pinning it on Russia, said it might be China, and that it could be a hit on our voting machines.

    So, just a breathtaking amount of lies packed into 2 tweets.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Xantomas wrote: »
    Trump recently tweeted downplaying the hack, blamed the media for pinning it on Russia, said it might be China, and that it could be a hit on our voting machines.

    So, just a breathtaking amount of lies packed into 2 tweets.

    Jesus Christ that makes me more angry than many things he's done...

    He/Him
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I mean, it's the exact same thing he did 4 years ago

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, it's the exact same thing he did 4 years ago

    I no puppet. You, you the puppet!

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Xantomas wrote: »
    Trump recently tweeted downplaying the hack, blamed the media for pinning it on Russia, said it might be China, and that it could be a hit on our voting machines.

    So, just a breathtaking amount of lies packed into 2 tweets.

    I mean, putin could literally pull down his pants and shit on baron's face and trump would try to downplay it and blame china.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

    I'm given to understand that the biggest thing hampering the US cyber-decision is that while there are talented amaerican hackers who would be willing to work for the government, the drug policy basically means they have to give up smoking weed which is more then they're willing to do for their nation.

    As to russia: they've had a huge edge in that trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer and as such have been able to act with relative impunity against the US for the past 4 years and this has likely meant that their intelligence department has been able to experiment and take chances that they never would have in the past.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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