suspicious online seller asking me to cancel a paypal case to get a refund

CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
Hi guys,

I'm looking for some other perspectives here because I've never been in this precise situation before but the whole thing has me feeling pretty suspicious. The situation is around mid November I was looking for some car parts, nothing crazy just some poly bushings if that makes a difference, I googled around for the part I was after and found a website selling them and placed an order through paypal. I got the usual automated emails right away from both the website and a receipt from paypal, the money was taken out my account. The day after I got another automated email telling me the shipment was on its way. This email has shipping numbers, DPD logos and all the usual delivery stuff on it.

At that point I pretty much forgot about it for a couple of weeks as I often do with online orders until the date I wanted to start work on fitting the parts started coming up and I remembered nothing had shown up yet. It's not that unusual for car parts to take weeks to arrive so I wasn't that fussed but fired off an email to the customer service address on the website which got me another auto reply saying "we're under stress due to covid please give us 72 business hours to reply". I give them another week and get nothing but radio silence.

At this point the deadline is coming up and I just want the parts, I go get them somewhere else and open up a paypal dispute over the missing order since I made a good faith attempt to speak to a human and find out what was going on and got nothing back. Another week of me focusing on other stuff passes and I finally get an email from them saying;
Thank you for the order with us, unfortunately our system has detected a high level risk of fraud with this order. For us to process the order we need a copy of your passport and driving licence and also a utility bill dated within the last 3 months.

I believe you have opened a PayPal case with us as you have not received the items however, if you wish to not send us over the documents, we will need to refund the order for you, but first would need the PayPal case to be cancelled.

Please let me know what you wish to do.

Many Thanks

This is throwing up all sorts of red flags for me. I made the purchase on my own debit card not a credit card, my card has never been flagged for fraud before now, I went through paypal which should on its own be enough security against fraud on my part and mostly the whole thing about asking me to drop the paypal case. At this point I want nothing more from these people other than my money back and I absolutely do not want to send them copies of my ID which seems mad for a simple sub £80 transaction. The whole thing stinks, if they thought I was the shady one they could have not taken the payment and contacted me declining the transaction and inviting me to get in touch and jump through their hoops. Instead, they took the payment, stayed completely quiet until I contacted them and started a paypal dispute and apparently the order they sent me delivery dates and shipping numbers for now never actually happened?

I guess what I'm asking from anyone who has had a similar experience is this whole thing about dropping the paypal case BS? These people have been nothing but shady at this point and I don't want to be the first one to put down my gun when I can just continue the paypal route and get my money back through them.

i write amazing erotic fiction

its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
Winky wrote: »
Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
zepherin

Posts

  • BlarghyBlarghy Registered User regular
    Don't drop the case before you get a resolution. Once its dropped, it can't be reopened. If they won't refund you the money before dropping the case, then just continue on with the process.

    see317JaysonFourNobodyschussdispatch.oEncbowenDaenriszepherinShadowfireadmanbDarkewolfeThegreatcowE.Coyoteknitdansilence1186CambiataMunkus BeaverkimeMan in the MistsHefflingDoctorArchZilla360SmrtnikJebus314
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    I'm not sure what the benefit here to them is--identity theft seems way too obvious--but I can tell you from experience if a buyer opens a PayPal dispute, one of the options that seller has to settle the dispute is to refund your money. So no, you don't need to cancel the case to receive your refund.

    I recommend keeping the case open. They didn't send you the product, they've admitted it via message, and they've also, in my non-legal opinion, unjustly requested your personal documents. They are not going to bother disputing your claim and will likely just let the clock run out until you're automatically awarded the refund.

    In terms of fraud alerts for ecommerce, I've never seen that level of "proof" requested. I work with a few different platforms in my job, although not PayPal. What you normally see is the ecommerce provider recommending the client (in this case, that's the seller) contact the buyer directly to determine if it's a legitimate purchase. People using stolen credit cards do not talk to the store they're trying to commit fraud with. But yes, there is a such thing as a fraud alert, based on the IP address being far from the shipping address, multiple attempts to purchase, multiple purchases that day to the same address on multiple websites, etc. Lots of variables they take into account. But again, this seems shady, and I'd just ride it out.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
    Moridin889tynicDirtmuncherElvenshaeDaenriszepherinShadowfireE.CoyoteCambiataFiendishrabbitkime
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Cool, my only concern was if paypal might not take my side and just expect me to go along with their offer of a refund? I really don't want to though because I don't trust this lot at all since the only reason they've even replied to me in the first place is likely the paypal case.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Don’t drop the PayPal dispute; they’re counting on you being stupid enough to do that.

    Do send PayPal a copy of the email where they ask you to drop the dispute as a condition of getting a refund, I imagine they’d love to see that.

    They’re trying to bullshit you AND bully you into handing over a bunch of documents that could be used to establish proof of residence for someone that’s not you. Keep the dispute open and put the screws to them, otherwise you’re never going to see an Euro of it.

    steam_sig.png
    tynicbowenElvenshaezepherinXaquinDarkewolfeE.Coyotesilence1186BloodySlothkimeMan in the MistsSmrtnik
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Oh my god do not send them copies of your passport

    Fuck their system, get your refund through paypal

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    davidsdurionsMoridin889see317JaysonFourwebguy20Gizzydispatch.oForarbowenElvenshaeDaenrisspool32zepherinShadowfireBetsuniBouwsTDarkewolfeE.CoyoteH3KnucklesEtheaRanlinsilence1186CambiataMunkus BeaverkimeMan in the MistsDoctorArchZilla360OrcaSmrtnikIncenjucar
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Cool, my only concern was if paypal might not take my side and just expect me to go along with their offer of a refund? I really don't want to though because I don't trust this lot at all since the only reason they've even replied to me in the first place is likely the paypal case.

    If you're worried about paypal taking your side, that email will help substantially. It's not just a stack of paypal rule violations but pretty clearly fraud to boot.

    ElvenshaeXaquinDarkewolfeE.CoyoteMan in the Mists
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Okay so I went back into the paypal dispute and said there's no way I'm dropping the case without a refund first and attached a copy of the email they sent asking me to drop it. And for good measure I highlighted the fact that they made no attempt to contact me when they detected "fraud" and in fact sent me fake shipping numbers and delivery dates. Hopefully paypal should take my side and that'll be the end of it. If they send back anything other than "yeah fine the money will be in your account tomorrow" I'll just escalate it and go the paypal route.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Paypal is notoriously pro buyer when it comes to refunds. To the point where sellers often get hosed. But in this case they are trying to get you to drop it and run out the clock. You only have 90 days or so for a dispute, and if you drop the claim that clock still ticks if you want to do a credit card back charge. You have no incentive to drop the claim, if they refund you 100% then drop the claim. Because often times they’ll try to partially refund you or claim some type of processing fee. My mom had that happen with a workout dvd company (the order was in the cart and she closed the tab so they processed the order). But she back charged them for fraudulent and did not relent when they tried to charge her a restocking fee or make her pay shipping they eventually backed down.

    ShadowfireElvenshae
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I wouldn't drop the case if they offered me the world at this point, they asked for a copy of your passport, that shit needs to be on record somewhere.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    tynicH3KnucklesJaysonFourRanlinsilence1186V1mShadowfireLuianeMoridin889Munkus BeaverElvenshaekimeMan in the MistsGONG-00I Zimbrawebguy20Zilla360SmrtnikDaenrisIncenjucar
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    I don't think they actually want the passport etc. It's a deliberately ridiculous request designed to make dropping the PayPal dispute seem like the more reasonable alternative when they frame it as a choice between the two. Which of course it isn't.

    I mean the whole saga starts with fake shipping info so they get no benefit of the the doubt. Just stick with it and PayPal will do its job and see you get your money back.

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
    ElvenshaekimeGnizmo
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    They actually replied on the paypal case itself saying that while the case was open the payment was "locked" and they can only cooperate if I send them the documents they requested, so I've just escalated it to paypal and I guess it's in their hands now.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    They actually replied on the paypal case itself saying that while the case was open the payment was "locked" and they can only cooperate if I send them the documents they requested, so I've just escalated it to paypal and I guess it's in their hands now.
    That is probably true. PayPal likely put a hold on the money. So they can claw it back after the dispute.

    Elvenshae
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I don't think they actually want the passport etc. It's a deliberately ridiculous request designed to make dropping the PayPal dispute seem like the more reasonable alternative when they frame it as a choice between the two. Which of course it isn't.

    I mean the whole saga starts with fake shipping info so they get no benefit of the the doubt. Just stick with it and PayPal will do its job and see you get your money back.

    Even if they don't actually want the passport, they asked for the passport. It is so shady, and my hope would be that if I could start or contribute to a paper trail of bullshit that makes paypal not want to work with them, the hassle would be worth it.

    I recently had to replace my credit card and I'm still mad.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Phoenix-DVishNubMoridin889JaysonFourMunkus BeaverElvenshaekimeMan in the MistsShadowfireGONG-00dispatch.oZilla360SmrtnikDisruptedCapitalist
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    They actually replied on the paypal case itself saying that while the case was open the payment was "locked" and they can only cooperate if I send them the documents they requested, so I've just escalated it to paypal and I guess it's in their hands now.
    That is probably true. PayPal likely put a hold on the money. So they can claw it back after the dispute.

    Except one of their options as as seller under dispute is to refund the money to end the dispute. It's part of the process.

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
    zepherinJaysonFourElvenshaeHevachMoridin889ceresspool32Comahawkdispatch.oDaenrisIncenjucar
Sign In or Register to comment.