Where can we find the drop rate on the world bosses?
Like I said, highball assumption based on how many pieces I've seen drop in a max size raid group each week. I don't know if there's any definitive word on how many pieces of loot they're supposed to drop.
Depends. Assuming all other things (gear, skill) equal:
Single target where rogue gets to sit on it the whole time? Sub
Single target where rogue has to spend a bunch of time twiddling thumbs? Assassin
Two targets nearby each other but not within 7 feet of each other? Assassin
Two targets in top of each other? Outlaw
4 targets very close to each other and enough hp to be alive for about 18 seconds but not much more? Assassin
4-5 targets very close to each other with very little or a lot more hp? Outlaw
More than 5 targets with at least 30 seconds before next fight starts? Sub
Etc...
Then you get into even more specialized cases like how Sub can convert Aoe builder into single target finisher so if you have a lot of adds and then one specific priority target then Sub is best (to kill the priority target fast) even if on the meter the Outlaw looks like it has more DPS (spread out across the targets).
For conditions in current raid (Nathria) you are at the moment likely best choice Outlaw overall, though the other two will beat you on certain fights. For M+ is probably Outlaw or Sub depending on what your group needs most help with, with a special mention for Assasin under conditions favoring fight length matching garrote length.
PC Gamer interviewed Game Director Ion Hazzikostas, who talked about improvements coming to Torghast rewards and raiders facing loot problems in Chains of Domination.
Ion Interview on End-Game Loot Problems
Ion says the team's happy with how PvP gearing has panned out in Shadowlands.
They think raid tear progression and pushing higher keys could really use some improvement.
The situation felt dire for Mythic+ pushers, so Valor Points return in Patch 9.0.5, but raiders will need to wait until Patch 9.1 for a proper fix.
"We do have some exciting plans in the works to also give a special, exciting reward to raiders who are going into the Sanctum of Domination and maybe even being able to tinker with some of the very power of Domination itself that lies within as they get unique armor pieces, and more," Ion said.
They want all 3 end-game group gearing paths to be equally viable and offer something that the other two envy.
Ion on Better Torghast Rewards from Failed Runs
Losing in Torghast is one of the worst experiences ever in WoW, according to community feedback.
If you spend an hour in Torghast and fail, it feels miserable when you're booted with no rewards, which is why the devs are revisiting success and failure in Chains of Domination, replacing Torghast's death counter, because we're facing the Tarragrue in the new raid.
They are leaning toward a rating or a score for Torghast that gives you Soul Ash based on how you perform, so even if you die too many times, you still receive some of it as opposed to nothing.
Those seem like the main issues, mainly raid loot needing something more interesting than just having more drop rates, and Torghast having the "I wasted an hour here and got nothing for it" feeling.
On Raid night, we also got Council down and got some pulls on Sludgefist. So that's cool.
+7
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Thank you for all of the advice. I'm gonna give outlaw a try for now. I miss having sword/axe/mace/fist weapon transmogs on my Rogue.
Been trying to get the void edge illusion. Wish it had a higher drop chance.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I re-cleared Heroic Sire on Ret today (yes, I got invited to a PUG as Ret. I assume only because I had AOTC) and man, that fight is so much less stressful on DPS. None of the positioning requirements and the only extra mechanic you have to deal with is Impale.
Of course, I’m a melee with no mobility so my P3 DPS was absolute crap. I looked at my logs and my total DPS for the fight was 3.5k (not good, but not awful) but my DPS during P3 was 2.6k. :x all aboard the fuck melee train!
"I understand you want to play with opposite faction and it would be easier for you but mechanically it's a pillar of what makes Warcraft Warcraft. That division has value, although we do want to look for ways for you to play with lots of people. Formal cross faction play is not in the cards."
to
Ion Hazzikostas: "Alliance and Horde are - those are pillars of the Warcraft franchise, those are pillars of what make Warcraft 'Warcraft,' and that's not something that we can just brush away. But we have begun to ask ourselves where the edges of that tension lie. You know, we have something like mercenary mode in battlegrounds that allow players to effectively, you know, disguise themselves as a member of the opposite faction and play there to solve what were major battleground queue imbalances back in the day.
It's essential to us that identity and faction matter in Warcraft, and that years from now, no matter what we do, when we're all together in Anaheim at Blizzcon, and someone - whether that's the successor of Chris Metzen, whether it's John, whoever - is up on the stage rallying "Where's the Horde at?" "For the Alliance!" that there are roars coming from the crowd for each faction. If we lose hold of that, we will have lost hold of something precious. And so that's the thing that we need to preserve at all costs...
But.
Not the cost of peoples' enjoyment, and feeling at home, like they can form and maintain friendships in WoW, and do the content they wanna do. So that's what we're trying to navigate. We don't have any specific answer to announce right now, but, that's the problem that faces us and how we're thinking about it.
Scott Johnson: "Well - and I know the answer to this already - and it's eternal to the Q&A of Blizzcon every year, I swear, but - you're never gonna let Horde and Alliance raid or mythic dungeon together, are you? That's just not gonna happen. That's just never gonna be a way to help this, or the population issues we talked about before - like, we're never getting that.
Ion Hazzikostas: Uhm. Ah, ah, in all s-, I honestly would not say never. I think that's kind of what I was getting at with my answer earlier. There are a ton of reasons why it's essential to retain faction identity. But. You know, for the sake of rated arena, from day one, Alliance could fight Alliance and Horde could fight Horde, right? When Burning Crusade launches - Burning Crusade classic comes out later this year, that will be a thing and that will be a competitive activity, and that was one of those areas where the gameplay and the need for matchmaking was what was the top priority and had to be. And so, in an ideal world, all these priorities would coexist, but at the end of the day, you know, an MMO like World of Warcraft is about being able to play with your friends, being able to play where you want to be, and arguably there's greater strength in the faction identity if you feel you can truly choose the faction that you identify with, that you feel like most a part of, and not have to sacrifice that because you need to be with your group, or you want to join a higher rated guild."
That's a lot of movement on this issue in a little over a year. Not going to be shocked at all if cross-faction grouping for PvE content/guilds is a thing in 10.0.
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Even aside from the storyline moving entirely away from the (increasingly contrived) Alliance vs. Horde war, with cross-realm everything WoW has moved so far away from any kind of fixed population that it's basically irrelevant. The only names you're ever going to know are the ones who are in your guild or friends list, so what does it matter if the rando you get partied up with says "Night Elf" on their tooltip instead of "Blood Elf"?
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I like the idea of having two distinct factions and creating a reason to pick one faction over another. I wish they would do faction specific classes again. I liked back in vanilla that only horde could have shamans and only alliance could have paladins.
I don't really care if they make it so horde and alliance can group together since Secret World was already doing that, just feels weird to basically have no faction.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited February 2021
ive always felt that choosing your race and then choosing your faction would create a far stronger attachment to your faction than the other way around
blood of the covenant thicker than water of the womb and all that
if you are part of the Horde because you chose them and not because you wanted to be a blood elf or because all of your friends are Horde, you're going to resonate with the faction conflict far more
and arguably there's greater strength in the faction identity if you feel you can truly choose the faction that you identify with, that you feel like most a part of, and not have to sacrifice that because you need to be with your group, or you want to join a higher rated guild."
it's nice that with this quote they seem to finally be thinking along those lines
Dhalphir on
+7
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I sort of agree with him that factions existing is kind of the identity of WoW. Like people can know about FOR THE HORDE without knowing anything else. That is an obvious thing to a lot of casual onlookers. But nothing about that should mean you can't play with each other. The game can have an identity but still allow for gameplay that is better.
Ever since Wrath making a mockery of the Alliance/Horde faction stuff with how badly they handled Garrosh I've thought it made more sense to have arbitrary factions that you choose to join that dictate your PvP grouping instead. Pick the Goblin-run Merc company or the Gnome-run Merc company, force the sides to be the same size by only having one "hiring" if the other has gotten too big, every season "fire" everyone so the teams get mixed up over time
Having factions is fine, but yes, let people choose the faction independently of anything else! There is NO reason not to do that at this point. There was no reason not to do that 5 years ago.
Having factions is fine, but yes, let people choose the faction independently of anything else! There is NO reason not to do that at this point. There was no reason not to do that 5 years ago.
That pretty much just kills the Alliance and leaves Horde as the only faction. So might as well just let everybody play together no matter the faction since that's the entire point.
I prefer the Alliance. I like the aesthetic of big stone castles and the blue and silver color motif. I also like lions in iconography. I also like horses and cats as mounts. WoD is irrelevant now, but I liked the Alliance garrison way better than the Horde one. I prefer Stormwind to Orgrimmar. I'm pretty much Alliance through and through in my heart.
But!
I play Horde cause that's where all my friends are. So I'm definitely among the people who Ion says "there's greater strength in the faction identity if you feel you can truly choose the faction that you identify with, that you feel like most a part of, and not have to sacrifice that because you need to be with your group." This is me. Exactly me. I'm forced into Horde by circumstance, but I've neve been happy about it. And I've been Horde for approximately 15 out of the 16 years that I've been playing WoW. That's a long time to play a faction I'm not really even that attached to.
Man, WoW nostalgia can hit hard. I saw a thread on reddit today, and I was like “Oh hey, I was online when that happened that time.” I’m pretty sure that Norg (Visage) had a macro to gkick Schoeps, because he was always able to do it so quickly whenever Schoeps did something like that.
And then I think “that was well over a decade ago.” And I’m sad.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I mean, even from a lore standpoint, it's never made sense that Alliance/Horde can stand together in cutscenes against 'greater evil X' but not actually do content related to defeating 'greater evil X' consistent with that image?
Like, you can have Horde and Alliance standing together, inside the Black Temple, or Icecrown, or Dragon Soul, or Siege of Orgimmar, or w/e, so let players group up like that?
+4
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I prefer the Alliance. I like the aesthetic of big stone castles and the blue and silver color motif. I also like lions in iconography. I also like horses and cats as mounts. WoD is irrelevant now, but I liked the Alliance garrison way better than the Horde one. I prefer Stormwind to Orgrimmar. I'm pretty much Alliance through and through in my heart.
But!
I play Horde cause that's where all my friends are. So I'm definitely among the people who Ion says "there's greater strength in the faction identity if you feel you can truly choose the faction that you identify with, that you feel like most a part of, and not have to sacrifice that because you need to be with your group." This is me. Exactly me. I'm forced into Horde by circumstance, but I've neve been happy about it. And I've been Horde for approximately 15 out of the 16 years that I've been playing WoW. That's a long time to play a faction I'm not really even that attached to.
Yeah. I pretty much only like Trolls and female Orcs in Horde. And I guess Tauren are alright for certain classes (I used to have a Tauren Shaman but I disliked it so much I basically stopped playing it until I race swapped to Troll, but I like my Tauren Paladin). When I started I played Alliance. But everyone I know plays Horde, so I play Horde.
Yeah, honestly at this point moving to a sort of FFXIV Grand Company system would probably be the best.
Like the Alliance and Horde leaders hammer something out as two parts (or more, depending on who else wants to get in on it) of a bigger Defense of Azeroth organization. The Alliance watches over X territory, the Horde watches over Y territory, and each other has territory nearby as a staging point in case it's been two years and a new threat to Azeroth has popped up out of nowhere because the true evil (the Shareholders) need to be paid with a new big box expansion. Races can still be linked to factions and cities, but for purposes of actually doing content? Eff it, everyone plays with everyone.
You could work out some new stories involving opening up trade between the two factions. Old friends and family reconnecting. If you want to still have Battlegrounds, it's just sparring that the commanders do to keep each faction sharp. It's not like the players ever actually *stay* dead in those things... If you need a justification for it, maybe Dalaran's worked out a system of enchantments to weapons that would simulate damage, and teleport people out of combat when they've been "killed."
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
99% of the issue would be solved if they'd just let factions play together in instanced content; you join a group for a raid/dungeon, zone in, and you're swapped to the faction of the leader. I don't think you need to make any great narrative changes other than allowing a momentary fiction for the sake of players forming groups more easily. It might even be sort of fun to be the opposite faction from time to time, a la dazar'alor.
and as he mentions, they long ago decided this was a fine thing to do for purpose of pvp matchmaking, where faction 'identity' or whatever is arguably most relevant.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
+3
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
It’s funny because I started doing rated bgs recently. Didn’t know a horde you can just randomly end up on the alliance side. Still being horde. It’s really jarring for the azerite bg because there is alliance rp and everything.
0
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
It’s funny because I started doing rated bgs recently. Didn’t know a horde you can just randomly end up on the alliance side. Still being horde. It’s really jarring for the azerite bg because there is alliance rp and everything.
We had one of our rogues guarding a flag that belonged to the enemy team thinking we owned it.
The idea of Warsong Gulch was dumb even when it launched. The idea is that they're perpetuating this conflict that was started by Grom when the orcs showed up in Kalimdor and started deforesting everything to setup their new basecamp.
And somehow years later they're still fighting, even though Grom is dead and Orgrimmar is completely built now so they have no more need for all that massive amount of lumber. Where is all of this theoretical lumber going that the Alliance and Horde are so hell bent on murdering each other over it?
I didn't do the lfr in Bfa and barely quested in it until the end [real life things stopped me from playing for a few}
But the Battle of Dral'zar is confusing from the adventure guide as that would seem where both the horde and alliance team up but the BFA story post legion doesn't make sense
I didn't do the lfr in Bfa and barely quested in it until the end [real life things stopped me from playing for a few}
But the Battle of Dral'zar is confusing from the adventure guide as that would seem where both the horde and alliance team up but the BFA story post legion doesn't make sense
Battle of Dazralor is not a teamup, that's in the middle of the faction war in the expansion. What happens is in the middle of the run there's a dream sequence of playing as the other faction for their bosses, presented as a survivor telling you what the other faction's group did.
I didn't do the lfr in Bfa and barely quested in it until the end [real life things stopped me from playing for a few}
But the Battle of Dral'zar is confusing from the adventure guide as that would seem where both the horde and alliance team up but the BFA story post legion doesn't make sense
Battle of Dazralor is not a teamup, that's in the middle of the faction war in the expansion. What happens is in the middle of the run there's a dream sequence of playing as the other faction for their bosses, presented as a survivor telling you what the other faction's group did.
I'm other words if your character was a gnome, you'd be turned into a goblin for a few bosses, racials and all. And viceversa. And likewise pairings for all the other races too.
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I am so tempted to buy the illusion tomes from the AH. I'm feeling way too lazy to farm the mats.
If I do a refer a friend on myself and create a new account and pay for it can I still get the benefits or will blizzard stop me?
As long as you don't try to multibox there's no reason for them to care. What's the difference between that and your sibling/partner in the same house making an account?
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
they also don't care if you multibox, as long as you don't do it through software duplication of inputs
+4
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I always just assume blizzard is going to do something stupid. I got banned at the end of wrath because my account was under my brother's name but the card being used to pay for the sub was my name. It was only under my brother's name because when I started playing WoW I was like 13 or 14.
While I can somewhat buy mercenary mode for something like a queue with randos in PvP, I think that that solution would be exceptionally strange for organized groups, like guildies getting together to M+, raid, and such. What even is your character when half the people in the game will see your orc as a human and vice versa? Would character creation need to include your alternate persona, since it's going to be your representation to that side?
I think that would be a lot weirder than just ... playing together in mixed parties.
Don't know how you handle warmode, though. Does it warn you that turning it on in a mixed party means you'll be removed from the group? In that case, do the restrictions on where you can flip on/off warmode need to be lifted even more? Or do you stay grouped, and can grief your warmode guildies outside the instance for fun? If so, do raid zones need modifiers to disable warmode hostilities and enable healing? .. Or does a faction-based PvP toggle even make sense in a post cross-grouping world? As Ion said, they would want to preserve the spirit of the Alliance vs. Horde, so I don't see them completely doing away with that PvP aspect, even if you can group up for PvE. But it does mean there are kinks to be worked out, for sure.
Posts
Where can we find the drop rate on the world bosses?
Like I said, highball assumption based on how many pieces I've seen drop in a max size raid group each week. I don't know if there's any definitive word on how many pieces of loot they're supposed to drop.
20% is from this Bernoulli Process calculator because doing math manually is for suckers.
Outlaw.
With the possibility of it being Assassination come the buffs in 9.0.5.
Depends. Assuming all other things (gear, skill) equal:
Single target where rogue gets to sit on it the whole time? Sub
Single target where rogue has to spend a bunch of time twiddling thumbs? Assassin
Two targets nearby each other but not within 7 feet of each other? Assassin
Two targets in top of each other? Outlaw
4 targets very close to each other and enough hp to be alive for about 18 seconds but not much more? Assassin
4-5 targets very close to each other with very little or a lot more hp? Outlaw
More than 5 targets with at least 30 seconds before next fight starts? Sub
Etc...
Then you get into even more specialized cases like how Sub can convert Aoe builder into single target finisher so if you have a lot of adds and then one specific priority target then Sub is best (to kill the priority target fast) even if on the meter the Outlaw looks like it has more DPS (spread out across the targets).
For conditions in current raid (Nathria) you are at the moment likely best choice Outlaw overall, though the other two will beat you on certain fights. For M+ is probably Outlaw or Sub depending on what your group needs most help with, with a special mention for Assasin under conditions favoring fight length matching garrote length.
Those seem like the main issues, mainly raid loot needing something more interesting than just having more drop rates, and Torghast having the "I wasted an hour here and got nothing for it" feeling.
Been trying to get the void edge illusion. Wish it had a higher drop chance.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Of course, I’m a melee with no mobility so my P3 DPS was absolute crap. I looked at my logs and my total DPS for the fight was 3.5k (not good, but not awful) but my DPS during P3 was 2.6k. :x all aboard the fuck melee train!
If you're chasing what trends highest on parses, it's outlaw in M+ and castle nathria currently.
to
That's a lot of movement on this issue in a little over a year. Not going to be shocked at all if cross-faction grouping for PvE content/guilds is a thing in 10.0.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I don't really care if they make it so horde and alliance can group together since Secret World was already doing that, just feels weird to basically have no faction.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
blood of the covenant thicker than water of the womb and all that
if you are part of the Horde because you chose them and not because you wanted to be a blood elf or because all of your friends are Horde, you're going to resonate with the faction conflict far more
it's nice that with this quote they seem to finally be thinking along those lines
That pretty much just kills the Alliance and leaves Horde as the only faction. So might as well just let everybody play together no matter the faction since that's the entire point.
But!
I play Horde cause that's where all my friends are. So I'm definitely among the people who Ion says "there's greater strength in the faction identity if you feel you can truly choose the faction that you identify with, that you feel like most a part of, and not have to sacrifice that because you need to be with your group." This is me. Exactly me. I'm forced into Horde by circumstance, but I've neve been happy about it. And I've been Horde for approximately 15 out of the 16 years that I've been playing WoW. That's a long time to play a faction I'm not really even that attached to.
And then I think “that was well over a decade ago.” And I’m sad.
Like, you can have Horde and Alliance standing together, inside the Black Temple, or Icecrown, or Dragon Soul, or Siege of Orgimmar, or w/e, so let players group up like that?
Yeah. I pretty much only like Trolls and female Orcs in Horde. And I guess Tauren are alright for certain classes (I used to have a Tauren Shaman but I disliked it so much I basically stopped playing it until I race swapped to Troll, but I like my Tauren Paladin). When I started I played Alliance. But everyone I know plays Horde, so I play Horde.
Like the Alliance and Horde leaders hammer something out as two parts (or more, depending on who else wants to get in on it) of a bigger Defense of Azeroth organization. The Alliance watches over X territory, the Horde watches over Y territory, and each other has territory nearby as a staging point in case it's been two years and a new threat to Azeroth has popped up out of nowhere because the true evil (the Shareholders) need to be paid with a new big box expansion. Races can still be linked to factions and cities, but for purposes of actually doing content? Eff it, everyone plays with everyone.
You could work out some new stories involving opening up trade between the two factions. Old friends and family reconnecting. If you want to still have Battlegrounds, it's just sparring that the commanders do to keep each faction sharp. It's not like the players ever actually *stay* dead in those things... If you need a justification for it, maybe Dalaran's worked out a system of enchantments to weapons that would simulate damage, and teleport people out of combat when they've been "killed."
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Obligatory PA strip from 15 years ago. https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/06/10
and as he mentions, they long ago decided this was a fine thing to do for purpose of pvp matchmaking, where faction 'identity' or whatever is arguably most relevant.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
We had one of our rogues guarding a flag that belonged to the enemy team thinking we owned it.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
And somehow years later they're still fighting, even though Grom is dead and Orgrimmar is completely built now so they have no more need for all that massive amount of lumber. Where is all of this theoretical lumber going that the Alliance and Horde are so hell bent on murdering each other over it?
If I do a refer a friend on myself and create a new account and pay for it can I still get the benefits or will blizzard stop me?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
But the Battle of Dral'zar is confusing from the adventure guide as that would seem where both the horde and alliance team up but the BFA story post legion doesn't make sense
Why do they care of you pay them?
Battle of Dazralor is not a teamup, that's in the middle of the faction war in the expansion. What happens is in the middle of the run there's a dream sequence of playing as the other faction for their bosses, presented as a survivor telling you what the other faction's group did.
I'm other words if your character was a gnome, you'd be turned into a goblin for a few bosses, racials and all. And viceversa. And likewise pairings for all the other races too.
As long as you don't try to multibox there's no reason for them to care. What's the difference between that and your sibling/partner in the same house making an account?
I thought multiboxing was always against ToS.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I think that would be a lot weirder than just ... playing together in mixed parties.
Don't know how you handle warmode, though. Does it warn you that turning it on in a mixed party means you'll be removed from the group? In that case, do the restrictions on where you can flip on/off warmode need to be lifted even more? Or do you stay grouped, and can grief your warmode guildies outside the instance for fun? If so, do raid zones need modifiers to disable warmode hostilities and enable healing? .. Or does a faction-based PvP toggle even make sense in a post cross-grouping world? As Ion said, they would want to preserve the spirit of the Alliance vs. Horde, so I don't see them completely doing away with that PvP aspect, even if you can group up for PvE. But it does mean there are kinks to be worked out, for sure.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow