Penny Arcade - Comic - Dante’s Etcetera

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited December 2020 in The Penny Arcade Hub
imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Dante’s Etcetera

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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  • LieutenantDanLieutenantDan Registered User regular
    Man do I feel this. Thankfully my kids don't have homework over break because they're smaller. But school is nuts these days. My second grader has 30-60 minutes of homework most nights and it only promises to get worse. I didn't have homework until I was 15 or something (I guess I had a little but I just did it at school). And online school blows.

  • MackenzierMackenzier Gold Star Police Ninja Lurking... less than usual.Registered User regular
    I *know* that Gabe is looking up at the snow beginning to fall in the second panel, but a part of me really wants to believe that he is reading the text bubble, desperately trying to keep up with Tycho's rush of dialogue.

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  • BropocalypseBropocalypse Registered User regular
    Here's a philosophical question: How much homework needs to be assigned before a break stops being a break?

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  • Philemon VanderbeckPhilemon Vanderbeck Registered User new member
    I'm a teacher and I didn't assign any homework to my students over break. However, I will add that trying to teach high school students math over Microsoft Teams is a much lower circle of hell than even Tycho's claim.

    H3Knuckles
  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    @Bropocalypse, the answer is "any." All homework is leisure theft and should be avoided whenever possible.

    Man in the MistsH3KnucklesDjiemKamarRingo
  • PeriSoftPeriSoft Registered User regular
    My kids are in a rural district. I used to worry that they wouldn't have the opportunities that kids in "good schools" do, but it turns out that functionally those opportunities amount to an obligation to take part in profound competitive stress with overachieving peers. But out here in the sticks, the district is so poor that the state threw money at the school for gear and staff, the classes are small, and my kids aren't buried in hours of homework every day. And because it's a 'lousy' rural school, colleges know they can't have done lots of extracurriculars, because they don't exist in the first place! So instead of panicking about whether he's spending enough time competing, my son gets to teach himself C# game development in his free time. I can't say I was smart enough to choose this deliberately, but man, it sure is a relief to have lucked into it.

    RingoYoungFrey
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    This is one of the big benefits of Montessori school. They generally feel "homework" for younger children should consist of just what it sounds like: "working at home." I mean things like helping to make dinner, setting the table, cleaning the house, taking care of pets, etc. Chores, basically. Or reading aloud (something I think all children should do, so that adults can see how they're progressing and where they are struggling.) Or quizzing them on math facts to help them with speed (my kids loved to do this, as they took a lot of price in what they were learning.) Or slip it into things like cutting up pizza into portions (now we have two halves, now we have four quarters, etc.) Playing Scrabble or other word games would also count. As would knitting, computer programming, etc.

    As they get older, they get occasional assigned academic homework, but it's not a regular, daily thing. And it's often designed with student choice on which thing they'd like to do. It's minimal (like maybe 20-40 minutes) and doesn't involve a bunch of busywork. And it's often designed with parental involvement in mind, in a way that doesn't just amount to you doing the homework for them.

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  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Montessori are the vegans of education

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    edited January 4
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Montessori are the vegans of education

    Not really. I'm not smug (the aspect I'm going to have to assume you are applying to me), but just rather desperately relieved. And hoping to spread awareness. Most people know you could not eat meat (and eggs, etc.) It's kind of obvious. But not many people know about non-mainstream education methods. I know I had no idea about the homework thing before I looked into Montessori schools.

    I also bring it up to show the real pointlessness of homework. If every education system did it, it would reinforce that it was really necessary. But others don't and it turns out they don't turn out illiterate, innumerate children.

    (Also, it would be "Montessorians".)

    dennis on
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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I wanted to respond to this, but missed out before the holiday break.

    When I take PTO from my work, my boss doesn't "assign" me a project to keep me busy on my vacation. Schools shouldn't assign work, either. Having too much work to do in what's supposed to be their leisure time is what makes kids hate school and resent learning.



    H3KnucklesKamarDjiemRingo
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Homework is mainly a matter of faith. There's not really good, solid data to back up whether it's a good approach. Which is understandable, given how hard it would be to tease out all the numerous factors that might be involved.

    This is especially true given the breadth of homework assigned. As many of us who are decades past our K-12 years know, there's a huge chunk of what was taught that is just not useful knowledge, mixed together with a huge chunk that is vital. I have never needed to know the precise date of the Battle of Hastings, but I very much have needed to be able to compare two products, one priced at per lb and one in per oz. Practicing your reading, writing and math skills is almost always going to pay off. But spending time committing bulk knowledge to memory which will probably not last is more dubious.

    The national recommendations that so many mainstream schools follow is 10 minutes per grade level per night. So sixth graders are supposed to do an hour a day, and seniors two hours. A day.

    QuidH3Knuckles
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I loathed academic homework growing up. I would do anything and everything to not do it. And when I continued to get high grades in class all it did was justify my attitude.

    H3KnucklesZilla360Ringo
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Same. Though it really did cause me problems later when I got to topics where due to the nature it was like, no really you do need to spend a ton of time working on this or you'll never figure it out.

    And that's the story of how I stopped at Calc 2.

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    H3KnucklesPailryderRingo
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    I wanted to respond to this, but missed out before the holiday break.

    When I take PTO from my work, my boss doesn't "assign" me a project to keep me busy on my vacation. Schools shouldn't assign work, either. Having too much work to do in what's supposed to be their leisure time is what makes kids hate school and resent learning.

    That comparison works in some ways, but if there is too much work to be done in the regular business hours, some employers will ask employees to put in extra hours. Depending on the workplace, it can even be a mandatory thing.

    I'm probably old enough to be old school, but I don't have a real problem with classroom time being for lecture and instruction, while homework time is for practice with what was learned. If nothing else, it gives kids a taste of what will be expected of them if they further their education beyond high school. Perhaps some argument could be made that some grade levels don't truly need homework in addition to classroom time, but I can't imagine being able to get through college material in the classroom alone. At that point, it's pretty much expected that almost everything that you get graded on will be done outside the classroom.

    I like Tofystedeth's mention of Calc 2. I've been taking night classes for computer science for several years now and when I was catching up on all the math I had to take in the beginning, I had Calc 1 and Calc 2. Man, I spent so much time doing calculus problems in my own time those two semesters. Thank goodness for the internet, which offered me alternative instructional videos when what I got in the classroom didn't quite click with me. I've managed to maintain a 4.0 GPA this whole time, but I don't think I would have done so without YouTube. lol

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I was a C and D student through middle school and high school while acing tests because homework was weighted so heavily into my grades at those schools.

    Then I tried to do the same thing in college. And I still aced the tests there...but flunked half my classes until I dropped out anyway because of mandatory attendance and homework still being a big factor in my grade in certain classes.

    Ringo
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Not smug, just they like to bring it up unsolicited

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    I was a C and D student through middle school and high school while acing tests because homework was weighted so heavily into my grades at those schools.

    Then I tried to do the same thing in college. And I still aced the tests there...but flunked half my classes until I dropped out anyway because of mandatory attendance and homework still being a big factor in my grade in certain classes.

    Thankfully for me homework was only 20%. So I still graduated with honors, for all that matters, at an 82% average thanks to extra credit on tests.

    H3KnucklesKamar
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Not smug, just they like to bring it up unsolicited

    It was very much apropos to the conversation based on the comic.



    Unlike jumping in to try to insult people.

    TofystedethH3KnucklesRhesus PositiveQuidRingoYoungFrey
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    I forgot that people can only discuss things if they've already been brought up in the discussion

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • RingoRingo He/Him Bury me at Lone Tree DenRegistered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    I was a C and D student through middle school and high school while acing tests because homework was weighted so heavily into my grades at those schools.

    Then I tried to do the same thing in college. And I still aced the tests there...but flunked half my classes until I dropped out anyway because of mandatory attendance and homework still being a big factor in my grade in certain classes.

    Same for me. I think homework is awful but I wish I had learned better study habits rather than just go off memory or deductive reasoning to ace my tests. Some kind of ongoing independent study where each student picked topics they had actual interest in and then learned self reliant study techniques might have worked.

    Also my geometry teacher made me a deal - be willing to tutor my classmates instead of homework. That seemed to work out beautifully for all involved

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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