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Tales of Final Dragon Ocean: A JRPG Thread

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Posts

  • BaidolBaidol I will hold him off Escape while you canRegistered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    What is everyone’s feeling on the Trails games? I’ve heard some really effusive things lately but it’s a lot to get invested in

    The first one looks like it has a neat battle system and I am charmed by its look

    I've sat here for a few minutes trying to come up with a helpful answer, but opinions here are going to vary from "they're very good" to "they're very bad" and that will change depending on what specific series you're talking about.

    Steam Overwatch: Baidol#1957
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    If Trails in the Sky looks tempting to you, I'd say give it a go. It is a two-parter, the first game is left very open ended. (with a third, epilogue/sidestory/prequel to the rest thing that's not required) Kind of a slow burn but the relatively low stakes of the early going on do a very good job of building over time and feeling grounded.
    Past that the answer gets complicated. If it's Trails of Cold Steel that's got your attention, I do like the battle system and gameplay, enough that i will probably shortly play the 4th one despite being pretty disappointed in the plot/characters at this point.
    Like I still find it fun to play, but I will probably take some real convincing to try their next series unless its much more concise or better written.

    akajaybay on
  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Baidol wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    What is everyone’s feeling on the Trails games? I’ve heard some really effusive things lately but it’s a lot to get invested in

    The first one looks like it has a neat battle system and I am charmed by its look

    I've sat here for a few minutes trying to come up with a helpful answer, but opinions here are going to vary from "they're very good" to "they're very bad" and that will change depending on what specific series you're talking about.

    From my experience, Trails in the Sky 1 has pretty good writing, but the battles can be pretty hard. Trails of Cold Steel 1 has a more forgiving battle system (and more difficulty options), but its writing is mediocre to bad.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Trails of Cold Steel is an incredible game with only a little sprinkling of Anime Bullshit at the start.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    If Trails in the Sky looks tempting to you, I'd say give it a go. It is a distinct two-parter (withh a third, epilogue/sidestory/prequel to the rest thing that's not required) and kind of a slow burn but the relatively low stakes of the early going on do a very good job of building over time and feeling grounded.
    Past that the answer gets complicated. If it's Trails of Cold Steel that's got your attention, I do like the battle system and gameplay, enough that i will probably shortly play the 4th one despite being pretty disappointed in the plot/characters at this point.
    Like I still find it fun to play, but I will probably take some real convincing to try their next series unless its much more concise or better written.

    Honestly I'd say Trails in the Sky 1 and 2 are pretty much the same game, since the story in 1 does not really end so much as lead into a second Act immediately. Something I was pretty annoyed to find out since I was not forewarned that I was being gotten into half a story by the person who pushed me to play it in the first place.

    I'll still play Trails 2 to finish the story eventually. But, well, eventually is doing a lot of work there.

  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I've somehow been "thinking about playing" trails in the sky since I had a psp.

    One day!

  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    Trails of Cold Steel is an incredible game with only a little sprinkling of Anime Bullshit at the start.

    I...don't really agree with that at all. Like, the whole incident of the Alisa thinking Rean is a pervert goes away by Chapter 2, but Rean being called a perv for no reason continues throughout the entire game.

    Meanwhile, Crow is an ACTUAL gross man who tries to get the female cast to wear skimpy clothing whenever he can. And Angelica is a lesbian who is constantly getting up in the female cast's personal space without their permission. Oh, and then there's Rean's sister, who the game heavily implies wants to date him.

    The game revels in its anime tropes, usually to its detriment.

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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I got to literally the final chapter in Trails in the Sky before getting my PSP stolen, which... somewhat took the wind out of my sails as far as finishing it goes. I've got both FC and SC on Steam now, but the thought of redoing all of the first game just to see the finale, which itself is setup for SC, is a bit daunting.

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  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    God, the lengths the Cold Steel games go to convince the player Elise and Rean should be dating, it sucks so bad

    Trails in the Sky 1-3 are quite good and surprisingly short for JRPGs

    CorporateLogo on
    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Wait hold up I can reforge items that I didn't even make? I can literally take the gear I've found and make it even better? Hot damn that's a nice feature.

    Edit: Oh and I get pearls for every item I make, not just the first copy. So...I think I'm gonna crank out some feather hats because at +2 I'm getting a decent profit purchasing raw materials.

    Madican on
  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    I would say that largely the merit of trails games is being able to play a JRPG that isn't trying to Innovate The Genre

    They execute well on established archetypes and tropes, rather than reinventing the wheel

    That means they carry some annoying baggage but I can deal with that when we're dealing with a relatively conventional jrpg

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Trails of Cold Steel is an incredible game with only a little sprinkling of Anime Bullshit at the start.

    I...don't really agree with that at all. Like, the whole incident of the Alisa thinking Rean is a pervert goes away by Chapter 2, but Rean being called a perv for no reason continues throughout the entire game.

    Meanwhile, Crow is an ACTUAL gross man who tries to get the female cast to wear skimpy clothing whenever he can. And Angelica is a lesbian who is constantly getting up in the female cast's personal space without their permission. Oh, and then there's Rean's sister, who the game heavily implies wants to date him.

    The game revels in its anime tropes, usually to its detriment.

    I guess i'm just comparing it to Trails in the Sky, which is nothing but Anime Bullshit.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    The Trails games are ANIME!!! as fuck. And drastically in need of an editor. The stories have no reason to be dragged out for as long as they are and the cliffhangers oh man do they love some cliffhangers. Spend all game dawdling around a story then make big things happen at the end only cut it short right before things are answered. My mind is still blown thinking about when some people actually billed them as JRPGs that are great for people who don't like normal JRPG/anime stories and just... nah.

    They do have great world building. The moment to moment writing however lets that down frequently. You will be bombarded with every trope imaginable over and over so many times you may actually be surprised. Which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the games want you to take them VERY seriously and want to touch on real heavy stuff but they are always afraid to actually commit to any of it.

    Gameplay wise(CS series at least) I think there's cool ideas there that just stagnates way too fast and character progression is hurt by the ever growing cast that it makes sure you are always using every one of. So in turn each character ends up super simplified because they can't get too deep with it since you need to use and keep setting up the entire rest of the cast. And combat get very same-y very fast and there's a lot of it. Especially between games where you get to use the exact same attacks and animations over and over... and then gasp! Is that character learning new moves?!?! No it's just the exact same move as before just an upgraded version that looks the same and does more damage..

    But if you can enjoy the world building and aren't bothered by all the ANIME! and enjoy the characters then they can be a fun experience to follow along. But they got a lot of troubs to be aware of for sure.

    DemonStacey on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Yeah. My view of Cold Steel is that they are jRPG ass jRPGs that if you are just looking for a jurp to pass the time do a decent enough job.

    Basically like Tales games but not as good.

    Also because the gameplay is so similar from game to game I probably wouldn't try to play them all in one go. Cause they are all long as hell.

    I had the benefit of spacing them out a bit and I still got burn out.

    I can't speak on Trails in the Sky.

    Dragkonias on
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Hi. I'm the lunatic who prefers random battles to "bump into them on the map" types.

    Random encounters (using the term here to encompass all the small battles with enemies of no narrative significance) are a tax on movement through dangerous areas. Individual encounters may not be that interesting to manage, but in aggregate they form a resource-management problem that makes you consider your long-term strategy. Do I burn MP on my wizard's best spells to clear encounters on the first turn, or do I use my fighters, take hits, and spend my priest's MP on healing instead?

    The thing is that that structure needs to be supported by other structures in the game to work properly. For instance, old-school Dragon Quest only let you save in towns. This meant you had to fight the dungeon boss without the backstop of a quick reload if things went south. Therefore the random encounters become much more significant because each one drains resources you might need to beat the big monster at the end. If you've played FTL, Hades, and other similar games, you probably understand that dynamic.

    Dragon Quest also typically (less often these days) makes it very difficult to recover MP, again forcing you to stretch your resources. In e.g. Bravely Default, my characters chug Ethers like water they buy with a bottomless bag of Pg, so MP usage isn't something I have to think about. And if I can Dodge the monsters on the map, I can show up at the boss pristine-- even if I couldn't just use a Tent at the obligatory save point for a cheap full restore anyway.

    Speaking of save points, that's another reason why Dragon Quest can bear the encounters-and-boss-together structure: defeat in battle isn't a game-ending state. If you die, you're out half your money on-hand and the cost of resurrections; you retain all EXP, equipment, items, and so on. Whereas a Final Fantasy will actually set you back ten or twenty minutes with a death, Dragon Quest lets you keep moving forward. So, ironically, it can be more free to knock you down, since the loss is just your position on the map and the next step of the gear progression.

    My point overall is that random battles feel superfluous when the rest of the game makes them so, giving you too many resources to work with and being too scared to actually make encounters that could defeat the player because the price of failure is so high.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    God, the lengths the Cold Steel games go to convince the player Elise and Rean should be dating, it sucks so bad

    Which is why you ignore it and go for Emma.

    I found it funny that for all of that game's tropes(and lord they are many), it subverts one of them in the optional hot spring scenes,
    since Emma is consensual about hanging out with Rean, no AAAAH PERVERT AAAAH nonsense.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Has anyone played that new Mistwalker game on Apple Arcade? I wonder how well its "put enemies into a pocket dimension and AoE them all down later at your leisure" encounter system works in practice.

    I played it briefly. All I can tell you is that it isn't unlocked in the first two hours. I'm guessing there's some story contrivance for why they don't let you use it right away.

  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    RPG encounter mechanics I like a lot:
    Earthbound's "instantly kill shit you overpower"
    Bravely Series' random encounter sliders
    Zeboyd Games' random encounter counter

    I like how in TWEWY battles are (mostly) initiated by the player.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Some guy in totally not Japan town asked me to make him a gold ring with at least +1 modifier and gave me materials. I fired up the forge, bashed it out, and produced a +3 gold ring.

    I then quickly equipped it to Erik so it would be protected, fired up the forge, made a second ring that was +2, and gave that to the guy instead. Like hell I'm handing over a +3.

    I then proceeded to meet a small sassy child with a staff so I fully expect her to be super powerful and/or older than she looks because this is anime land.

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    I would say that largely the merit of trails games is being able to play a JRPG that isn't trying to Innovate The Genre

    They execute well on established archetypes and tropes, rather than reinventing the wheel

    That means they carry some annoying baggage but I can deal with that when we're dealing with a relatively conventional jrpg

    Coming back to this to try and put it more succintly:

    I think the trails games are most directly comparable to dragon quest games, in that they both execute extremely well on a slate of anime and fictional storytelling mechanics without trying to do anything especially new

    The core difference lies in which era of anime and fiction they're pulling from, is all

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Okay turns out it really was both in regards to the child and now I have a full party and actual concrete goal beyond running from Heliodor soldiers. Also don't think I didn't notice how you had a boss named Jarvis constantly making pottery puns, DQ.

    Onwards to Gallopolis! Once I finish distributing some gear to the new party members. Bunny Tails for everyone! Except Erik who gets two copies of Robber Gloves +3 because no rare item will be safe from Itemized Kill pep power.

  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Veronica rules.

    Basically the only time that particular trope didn't make me vaguely uncomfortable (at best)

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  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    Veronica rules.

    Basically the only time that particular trope didn't make me vaguely uncomfortable (at best)

    that's largely cause dq11 is basically sexless and wholesome

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »
    Veronica rules.

    Basically the only time that particular trope didn't make me vaguely uncomfortable (at best)

    that's largely cause dq11 is basically sexless and wholesome

    Uhhhh.

    Are we just ignoring Jade, all the horny-as-fuck costumes, and that entire dumbfuck puff-puff schtick that the franchise feels is mandatory to include?

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah, Veronica is handled well. Jade much less so.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Yeah, Veronica is handled well. Jade much less so.

    And then there's the character who's constantly reading Playboys and ogling women.

    Sexless and wholesome, the game definitely ain't.

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  • ConnConn Registered User regular
    .
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Conn wrote: »
    Guardian's Crusade has my favorite way of handling encounters. So first, it's one of the games where you encounter them in the field, and they'll take you to the battle screen if you touch them.

    In the field, they're represented as these... I guess sperm ghosts? The sperm ghosts take on three appearances depending on their level relative to you. Equivalent levels, they chase after you, and you can try to avoid them if you want, but it's tricky. Significantly higher level sperm ghosts, it's the same behavior, but their appearance is scarier, to suggest that you shouldn't be in their area yet. Also, they might be faster? I haven't played it in a long time.

    If a sperm ghost enemy is significantly lower level, they run away from you, like they're scared. That way, it's easy to avoid encounters when you revisit a lower level area, but you can chase them down and fight them if for some reason you really want to.

    Don't think I've played any other JRPGs that have handled it quite the same way.

    I'm pretty surprised you haven't seen that anywhere else. It's far more common than purely random encounters these days, especially paired with a map mechanic where if you swat them, you start the battle at an advantage. Valkyrie Profile used it (RIP). Persona has used it from 3 on. Atelier has used it from Iris 3 on. Tales has (mostly) used it from I believe Symphonia on. Etc. Shit, even the most recent Pokemon uses it. I mean, they're rarely generic color coded ghost blobs (except for Persona and the PS2 Ateliers), but it's more common than not.

    Oh, yes, encounters-in-the-field are most of what I see these days. I was referring more specifically to having enemies run away when they're too weak, which seems to be less common (I haven't played the other few examples named). Very often the games that have field encounters still have the weaker enemies still running after you even if they go out like total jobbers, so they're still a bit of a bother.

    XBL, PSN, and NNID: "ConnConnor" for all three.
  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Dragon Quest's version of horny is the tamest shit on the planet, chill.

    Also Rab is outwardly attracted to like one lady who is his age and he has a prior relationship with idk what you're on about.

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Please keep in mind I am only just playing this for the first time and have no idea who any of the upcoming characters are and I would really like to experience this game organically. So, spoiler tags is what I'm asking for please.

    Madican on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    Dragon Quest's version of horny is the tamest shit on the planet, chill.

    Also Rab is outwardly attracted to like one lady who is his age and he has a prior relationship with idk what you're on about.

    Dude, there's like five scenes where he:
    Gives some rousing speech and then accidentally drops a copy of *checks Google* Ogler's Digest on the ground. It's his stupid running gag.

    Did you block all those out of your memory?

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  • AJRAJR Some guy who wrestles NorwichRegistered User regular
    DQ11 character stuff.
    I can't remember if Rab oggles other women, but I do remember the porno mag stuff.

    The sexualisation of Jade just felt weird to me after how she was introduced, and I hate that her Act 2 arc has her dressed up as a sexy bunny put under a curse to do someone else's bidding.

    It's been ages, so I can't remember it in great detail, but I remember feeling like her character got a pretty raw deal and wished they'd gone a different way with it.

    Aaron O'Malley. Wrestler extraordinaire.
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  • rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »
    Dragon Quest's version of horny is the tamest shit on the planet, chill.

    Also Rab is outwardly attracted to like one lady who is his age and he has a prior relationship with idk what you're on about.

    Dude, there's like five scenes where he:
    Gives some rousing speech and then accidentally drops a copy of *checks Google* Ogler's Digest on the ground. It's his stupid running gag.

    Did you block all those out of your memory?

    Nah, that’s a good gag.

  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »
    Dragon Quest's version of horny is the tamest shit on the planet, chill.

    Also Rab is outwardly attracted to like one lady who is his age and he has a prior relationship with idk what you're on about.

    Dude, there's like five scenes where he:
    Gives some rousing speech and then accidentally drops a copy of *checks Google* Ogler's Digest on the ground. It's his stupid running gag.

    Did you block all those out of your memory?

    Nah, that’s a good gag.

    yeah man people allowed to look at nudie mags

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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I do find it odd how people tend to just gloss over JRPG characters wearing fetish outfits as "non-sexual". It tends to come off as juvenile and puerile - I have some OPINIONS on how the Tales series in particular is held back on character development by by the immature handling of anything sexual. It's an odd pandering combination of fetish outfits for character types and personality types combined with a "will-they-won't-they love story where the characters rarely even advance past the hand-holding stage of the relationship". For games that make character interactions a major selling point, it's always been a weakness. It's also extremely pandering to someone's idea of what a teenage boy wants in their story, but speaking as a former teenage boy it was never really what any of us were interested in and the obvious immaturity of it was a lot more embarrassing for someone to see than something like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, which had full on sex scenes in them.

    Just for once, I'd appreciate it if more JRPGs actually took that step. Xenogears managed to do it over 20 years ago and the Final Fantasy IV, VI, and VII all managed to have a more mature (non-juvenile) take on relationships in the game and were stronger for it. The targeting of games at the "otaku" stereotype is something that has kept me largely disinterested from a lot of the more recent JRPGs over the past 10 years or so and it's really too bad.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Alright, well, I've reached Gallopolis and I'm sorry to say this is where my journey ends. You see there are just too many cats in the palace for me to be petting and doing hero stuff, so one of them has got to go. Terribly sorry, was fun being the Luminary, and good luck with that whole Lord of Shadows business.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Okay while I appreciate how apparently the Definitive Edition lets me show a cosmetic costume without having the pieces equipped, it's noticeably lacking a feature where I can choose to NOT show the cosmetic costume while having the pieces equipped. So I have to pick between Serena and Veronica having some pretty excellent gear stats-wise and having Serena wearing the Dancer Costume while Veronica is dressed up like a mascot character.

    I am however appreciating how Veronica can regain mana by melee'ing with her staff so she can cycle between Bang and Bonk without chugging phials.

    Madican on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Madican wrote: »
    Okay while I appreciate how apparently the Definitive Edition lets me show a cosmetic costume without having the pieces equipped, it's noticeably lacking a feature where I can choose to NOT show the cosmetic costume while having the pieces equipped. So I have to pick between Serena and Veronica having some pretty excellent gear stats-wise and having Serena wearing the Dancer Costume while Veronica is dressed up like a mascot character.

    I am however appreciating how Veronica can regain mana by melee'ing with her staff so she can cycle between Bang and Bonk without chugging phials.

    Are you sure about that? The Switch version definitely has a "Select Outfit" option for any outfit you've unlocked, including "Use None." I assume the other DEs do too.

    ArcTangent on
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  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Yeah you should be able to do that

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Nope, it won't work while the pieces are equipped. That seems to override it.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Madican wrote: »
    Nope, it won't work while the pieces are equipped. That seems to override it.

    I checked. You can overwrite with another actual costume, but if you can't overwrite an equipped costume set with "none." Dumb.

    ArcTangent on
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