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far right riot in DC

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    "in the name of Jesus"?!?!?

    hey lady let me tell you something you definitely do not know about jesus; he thinks you're a fucking prick

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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Everyone wants to invoke table turning Jesus without ever reading what table turning Jesus was turning over (capitalism, literally)

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Peen wrote:
    I'm not going to post in here again for a while

    How come

    Ugh fine once more

    because posting anything pro-individual-police-officer-not-the-corrupt-institution in these threads tends to elicit backlash all the same and I don't want to get bogged down in a dumb argument.

    But seriously, I've had to call MPD to my library at least once per week, sometimes more, for 7 years, to assist me with violent and threatening patrons (overwhelmingly of color) and I've never had a problem with the way any officers responded or behaved. A few have said dumb shit but nobody's done anything, nobody's been shot or assaulted or even arrested, they've gotten chased off of the property but that's about it.

    I've had officers respond to a call to assist with an extremely autistic man who'd gotten away from his house, because I had a hunch that my local beat guys would know who he was and where he lived, and I was right and they very gently calmed him down and called his mom and got him home. I've had officers stand in front of my library, in front of 15 screaming angry teenagers, and not respond or do anything foolish or dangerous, in a situation I was very personally threatened by (literally, in that they'd already threatened me, and figuratively in that it was a tense dangerous moment).

    The Police as an institution is bad. Individual officers can be good people, working to make their communities a better place, and some of the anti-cop rhetoric goes too far.

    i'm glad you've stayed safe and those were all "good" experiences from what you saw

    but do you understand what you're doing and projecting when you call the cops on people, especially those of color or with mental health issues or on the spectrum, etc?

    i'd hazard a guess that at least one of the people you called the cops on thought they were going to get killed then and there

    and that's fucked up

    Yeah duh, we weigh that extremely carefully and I'm pretty insulted that you'd think otherwise. We de-escalate the overwhelming majority of incidents that happen in the library, oftentimes putting ourselves in harms way, specifically to avoid calling the cops. If there were someone else to call I would and we've been yelling about that as a profession because we're out in it every day and it sucks. I didn't give those examples to say "hey look at these awesome cops, they didn't even kill anyone," I gave those examples to counter the extremely hyperbolic "cops just kill black people on sight lol" nonsense that gets posted for reactions or because it's what people actually think or whatever. I've been working in urban public libraries for almost 14 years, exclusively in low-middle to low income neighborhoods, please don't think that there's any chance I don't understand what the problems with the cops are.

    I'm not asking this in a rhetorical or confrontational way, I promise

    But why do you want to counter the perception that cops aren't great? What is gained by saying, "Yes, the racist and oppressive institution is racist and oppressive, and I sure do wish that there was an alternative, but we should still cut slack to SOME of the people who willingly associate with a racist and oppressive institution, who implicitly and explicitly defend the worst of their colleagues"

    (And as has been stated in multiple ways by multiple people, nobody thinks LITERALLY every cop is out there every day shooting people. The problem is that even the "good ones" provide cover and support to the worst. Falling back on overbroad and uncharitable generalizations to counteract what you see as overbroad and uncharitable generalizations, and doing so in patronizing/aggressive ways, proooooobably ain't gonna move the needle for anybody.)

    Fundamentally I hate oversimplification and a lot of ACAB stuff gets said by people who haven't ever needed the cops for anything and usually haven't had a whole lot of contact with cops and often have lived pretty safe and sheltered lives wherein everything they're talking about is completely hypothetical.

    I'm not defending cops. I'm saying that they play a role and that I really dislike pulling any and all nuance out of an argument, especially when it involves a lot of lived experience for me both personally and professionally.

    Like cursedking said, there's a lot of talking past each other happening, but I disagree that someone's personal experience isn't relevant to the discussion. I was trying to avoid fighting with people but here I am so fuck me I guess.

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    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    Should I just start a new thread? I too have something I wanted to post that people would likely want to discuss but didn't want it lost on page 100

    i think it would be cool if you did!

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    i had a cop choke me against the wall when i was like 14 because i said i didn't believe in god

    the cop was my dad, in my home

    i can only imagine the shit he did to people who weren't his child, and i'm glad i've cut all my cop family out of my life

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    I feel somewhat guilty for not trusting my local police still. I live in a suburb of Boston so community is pretty liberal. So when a group of local high school students asked the police chief to say Black Lives Matter and to say the names of all the victims, he did. Several officers have also taken a knee at local events too. And I know they're trying. But on the same token the Chief has publicly and officially stated his opposition to police reform. He's still supporting the corrupt system even if he and his force are relatively blameless. So I still feel like the problem still exists here despite all their efforts to prove they're the "good guys."

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    I feel somewhat guilty for not trusting my local police still. I live in a suburb of Boston so community is pretty liberal. So when a group of local high school students asked the police chief to say Black Lives Matter and to say the names of all the victims, he did. Several officers have also taken a knee at local events too. And I know they're trying. But on the same token the Chief has publicly and officially stated his opposition to police reform. He's still supporting the corrupt system even if he and his force are relatively blameless. So I still feel like the problem still exists here despite all their efforts to prove they're the "good guys."

    boston PD have an especially notorious history of being wildly racist and corrupt

    if you aren't irish, good fucking luck

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I have had casual civilian interactions and professional relationships with police officers and they've all been bags of shit at best

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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing

    Officer Mader was possibly a good cop. And because of that he's not a cop anymore. The system needs to burned down and built up on a brand new foundation. The people I call because my neighbors are having a domestic dispute and throwing things and getting violent should not be the same people I call to report that my car was broken into/stolen who should also not be the same people called if I'm pinned down in the crossfire of an actual firefight.

    There was some city that in the last year or so put together a van of social workers to respond to things instead of the police and it was wildly successful, had not yet at the point of the article I read needed police backup. In fact, once the police showed up to "lend a hand" and made everything worse and set back hours of work with somebody. Can't find it though. We need more shit like that though.

    Aurora, CO, I believe.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    If you trust the cops I simply do not trust you

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    It's certainly rather alienating

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I feel somewhat guilty for not trusting my local police still. I live in a suburb of Boston so community is pretty liberal. So when a group of local high school students asked the police chief to say Black Lives Matter and to say the names of all the victims, he did. Several officers have also taken a knee at local events too. And I know they're trying. But on the same token the Chief has publicly and officially stated his opposition to police reform. He's still supporting the corrupt system even if he and his force are relatively blameless. So I still feel like the problem still exists here despite all their efforts to prove they're the "good guys."

    boston PD have an especially notorious history of being wildly racist and corrupt

    if you aren't irish, good fucking luck

    Oh yah, definitely, though I'm referring to my fairly affluent town where the cops don't have much crime and poverty to crush as in the city. Writing tickets and breaking up domestic disputes are probably most of their work here.

    The local chief even came on social media and spoke with black activists to address their concerns and fix them in his own department.

    Pretty commendable, but then he complains about the legislatures plans to reform the police and also complains that nobody appreciates his fixes and still don't trust cops. Like, don't keep playing the victim card for one, and acknowledge the problem outside our town requires more work than what he's been doing in his own domain...

    DisruptedCapitalist on
    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    It's certainly rather alienating

    a certain dude spilt a lot of ink talking about alienation!

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Local PD responded to a bomb threat at our theater with the bomb squad and fire department and just sort of stood around making fun of us.

    Years later someone called in that a mentally challenged guy threatened them with a gun (He had not, he did that thing with your hands where you pretend your hand is a gun) they showed up with full SWAT, armored up and with assault weapons. I guess it was precautionary, but they roughed him up.

    I also use to sort of worked with a cop at IHOP, he was off duty and acted as security. He was a nice enough guy. Was also super racist and was cheating on his wife with one of our waitresses.

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Peen wrote:
    I'm not going to post in here again for a while

    How come

    Ugh fine once more

    because posting anything pro-individual-police-officer-not-the-corrupt-institution in these threads tends to elicit backlash all the same and I don't want to get bogged down in a dumb argument.

    But seriously, I've had to call MPD to my library at least once per week, sometimes more, for 7 years, to assist me with violent and threatening patrons (overwhelmingly of color) and I've never had a problem with the way any officers responded or behaved. A few have said dumb shit but nobody's done anything, nobody's been shot or assaulted or even arrested, they've gotten chased off of the property but that's about it.

    I've had officers respond to a call to assist with an extremely autistic man who'd gotten away from his house, because I had a hunch that my local beat guys would know who he was and where he lived, and I was right and they very gently calmed him down and called his mom and got him home. I've had officers stand in front of my library, in front of 15 screaming angry teenagers, and not respond or do anything foolish or dangerous, in a situation I was very personally threatened by (literally, in that they'd already threatened me, and figuratively in that it was a tense dangerous moment).

    The Police as an institution is bad. Individual officers can be good people, working to make their communities a better place, and some of the anti-cop rhetoric goes too far.

    i'm glad you've stayed safe and those were all "good" experiences from what you saw

    but do you understand what you're doing and projecting when you call the cops on people, especially those of color or with mental health issues or on the spectrum, etc?

    i'd hazard a guess that at least one of the people you called the cops on thought they were going to get killed then and there

    and that's fucked up

    Yeah duh, we weigh that extremely carefully and I'm pretty insulted that you'd think otherwise. We de-escalate the overwhelming majority of incidents that happen in the library, oftentimes putting ourselves in harms way, specifically to avoid calling the cops. If there were someone else to call I would and we've been yelling about that as a profession because we're out in it every day and it sucks. I didn't give those examples to say "hey look at these awesome cops, they didn't even kill anyone," I gave those examples to counter the extremely hyperbolic "cops just kill black people on sight lol" nonsense that gets posted for reactions or because it's what people actually think or whatever. I've been working in urban public libraries for almost 14 years, exclusively in low-middle to low income neighborhoods, please don't think that there's any chance I don't understand what the problems with the cops are.

    I'm not asking this in a rhetorical or confrontational way, I promise

    But why do you want to counter the perception that cops aren't great? What is gained by saying, "Yes, the racist and oppressive institution is racist and oppressive, and I sure do wish that there was an alternative, but we should still cut slack to SOME of the people who willingly associate with a racist and oppressive institution, who implicitly and explicitly defend the worst of their colleagues"

    (And as has been stated in multiple ways by multiple people, nobody thinks LITERALLY every cop is out there every day shooting people. The problem is that even the "good ones" provide cover and support to the worst. Falling back on overbroad and uncharitable generalizations to counteract what you see as overbroad and uncharitable generalizations, and doing so in patronizing/aggressive ways, proooooobably ain't gonna move the needle for anybody.)

    Fundamentally I hate oversimplification and a lot of ACAB stuff gets said by people who haven't ever needed the cops for anything and usually haven't had a whole lot of contact with cops and often have lived pretty safe and sheltered lives wherein everything they're talking about is completely hypothetical.

    I'm not defending cops. I'm saying that they play a role and that I really dislike pulling any and all nuance out of an argument, especially when it involves a lot of lived experience for me both personally and professionally.

    Like cursedking said, there's a lot of talking past each other happening, but I disagree that someone's personal experience isn't relevant to the discussion. I was trying to avoid fighting with people but here I am so fuck me I guess.

    Man it is a REAL bad look to skip on past multiple firsthand accounts of police brutality, say that everyone is privileged and has no idea what they're talking about, and THEN act like an aggrieved party

    Like, c'mon

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    my ex had a friend for a bit who was a cop, she'd come by in the middle of her shift and just hang out, and record that she was "taking a statement" to account for the time

    I guess in a way a cop not doing anything is better than one actively being a cop?

    she was also the most amazingly non-functional person I have ever seen? Plenty of people don't know how to cook and eat takeout for every meal, but one time another friend suggested they could make like, kraft mac & cheese and the cop said no she couldn't because she had thrown out all her pots and pans because they were dirty and she didn't want to clean them.

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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    she was also the most amazingly non-functional person I have ever seen? Plenty of people don't know how to cook and eat takeout for every meal, but one time another friend suggested they could make like, kraft mac & cheese and the cop said no she couldn't because she had thrown out all her pots and pans because they were dirty and she didn't want to clean them.

    look

    i get this

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    I personally think we should normalize not cooking for yourself even a little bit, and I say that as someone who likes cooking a lot

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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    I have to imagine there is a, like, service where you can pay someone to come to your house and do your dishes for you. And that service costs less than pots and pans.

    I don't know for sure, but man.

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    expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I personally think we should normalize not cooking for yourself even a little bit, and I say that as someone who likes cooking a lot

    if it was affordable, i absolutely would cook significantly less

    6vjsgrerts6r.png

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I personally think we should normalize not cooking for yourself even a little bit, and I say that as someone who likes cooking a lot

    if it was affordable, i absolutely would cook significantly less

    yeah this is the thing for me. I totally get folks not wanting to cook but it's so expensive not to. I wish there was a readily available middle ground. I guess there are in some cities with huge street food traditions, but around here it's cook for yourself, eat stuff that's pretty bad for your health, or pay $$$

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I personally think we should normalize not cooking for yourself even a little bit, and I say that as someone who likes cooking a lot

    if it was affordable, i absolutely would cook significantly less

    I like to cook but I would HELLA do way less of it if I could afford it, like I'd cook a few meals a week at most instead of 6-9, have it be more of a hobby instead of something I have to do

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    meanwhile, I love to cook but it's lame just cooking a whole meal for myself. I still do it though because the leftovers save me a ton on work lunches

    I would never want to run or work in a restaurant, but I'd love some sort of communal meal thing where I cook for a crowd and folks chip in a little bit for groceries/help with cleanup/etc

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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    there's a little caesar's two blocks away with $5 hot-n-ready pizza, i can't be expected to eat healthy in this environment

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    It is not enough to not be racist.

    You must fight racism.

    It is not enough to not be sexist.

    You must fight sexism.

    So the cops you defend, the cops I interacted with Wednesday night, both sets were good. But until they put in work and risk exile fighting the rot in their ranks, its not enough.

    Now, there's a whole lotta people on the left not putting enough work to reform their ranks and are waking up to find plenty of Al Franken like behavior that they have been low key enabling. Hell, one of the poster children of the Seattle #BLM movement got put on front street for his poor behavior towards several women. Killer Mike in particular has been disrespectful to the women who founded #BLM and fucked around to become the token Negro for the NRA.

    Its not enough to be a good person, you gotta actively change shit, be the counterweight for bad things happening. Especially when there's no one out there to have your back in the beginning. Start shit, get messy.

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    HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Peen wrote:
    I'm not going to post in here again for a while

    How come

    Ugh fine once more

    because posting anything pro-individual-police-officer-not-the-corrupt-institution in these threads tends to elicit backlash all the same and I don't want to get bogged down in a dumb argument.

    But seriously, I've had to call MPD to my library at least once per week, sometimes more, for 7 years, to assist me with violent and threatening patrons (overwhelmingly of color) and I've never had a problem with the way any officers responded or behaved. A few have said dumb shit but nobody's done anything, nobody's been shot or assaulted or even arrested, they've gotten chased off of the property but that's about it.

    I've had officers respond to a call to assist with an extremely autistic man who'd gotten away from his house, because I had a hunch that my local beat guys would know who he was and where he lived, and I was right and they very gently calmed him down and called his mom and got him home. I've had officers stand in front of my library, in front of 15 screaming angry teenagers, and not respond or do anything foolish or dangerous, in a situation I was very personally threatened by (literally, in that they'd already threatened me, and figuratively in that it was a tense dangerous moment).

    The Police as an institution is bad. Individual officers can be good people, working to make their communities a better place, and some of the anti-cop rhetoric goes too far.

    See what bums me out is that "did not literally harm people" is held up as an example of the goodness and righteousness of unfairly-maligned cops instead of just, like

    Baseline human decency

    Still, maybe not the greatest example but I understand where Peen is coming from. I am pretty damn left and socialist in my general opinions by most every real world person I encounter's standards and I have frequently felt not "left enough" for this room on many, many occasions. This place has a way of making outlier opinions really uncomfortable. I fully realize now is a raw and angry time, but it is really intimidating the be in this space often enough that I post sparingly and avoid entire subjects our of fear.

    I mean this specific conversation has people saying stuff like, "this is a bummer" or "have you considered these other aspects of this issue"

    It doesn't exactly seem like mob rule or anything, but what do I know

    I would like to point out as bad as I agree Peen's argument is, he was went after pretty agro for three straight pages. Maybe we can and should move on as this is exactly what I am talking about when I say this place is incredibly intimidating to people who are learning.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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    David WalgasDavid Walgas Registered User regular
    Hell, one of the poster children of the Seattle #BLM movement got put on front street for his poor behavior towards several women
    Raz Simone or Andre Taylor? Cause the City of Seattle, and the current mayor, has a history of putting dudes with fucked up past around women into protest movements.

    Only ask, cause as someone who lives in Seattle, neither of them have been welcome at events for a while now.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Hell, one of the poster children of the Seattle #BLM movement got put on front street for his poor behavior towards several women
    Raz Simone or Andre Taylor? Cause the City of Seattle, and the current mayor, has a history of putting dudes with fucked up past around women into protest movements.

    Only ask, cause as someone who lives in Seattle, neither of them have been welcome at events for a while now.

    Raz, just popped in a black group I am a part of

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    David WalgasDavid Walgas Registered User regular
    Got it. If ya got twitter look up soultypechild she’s been leading the “fuck raz” call since June and is suffering consequences for it.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Weaver wrote: »
    I know I was anger posting earlier. It's a character defect.

    My total nervousness package about the inauguration has totally wrecked my arm. This is the worst a very annoying medical side effect. The shingles thing, that it was on that nerve branch, and I guess just really buried itself in there. I get in a bad mental zone, boom rashes and bumps only on that one section of my arm. That's like, normal work anxiety.

    My entire forearm itches right now like the bone itches.

    @Weaver, this doesn't look like the apology that RK deserves. I trust you'll be working on that, and posting it in the new thread.

This discussion has been closed.