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i am sure everyone who took part is expecting a pardon
See, but wouldn’t that mean an admission of guilt, and implicate everyone else involved (ie their favorite politicians)? They really didn’t think this through. Of course neither does trump so I’m thinking it might actually happen.
+1
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
There is a difference between sensitive and classified information. There is probably a very good chance that sensitive information isn't terribly useful for most of our foreign adversaries because one of the reasons it's given the sensitive status, is that it's information that is already public, just that you have top piece it together right to spot things that the government doesn't want publicly known. Most competent adversaries will have likely gotten that information already because it's already public and have likely pieced it together. Now there might be a few bits that they haven't figured out or realized are important. Just saying it isn't classified and even if it does end up in China or Russia's hands, it's not guaranteed to be something new for them to play with.
Still, find the fuckers and charge them with treason. Heads need to fucking roll, in order to drive home that this shit will not be tolerated. As an aside, this gets into the one areas where I'm perfectly fine with the death penalty. Dead traitors don't get to hope for future traitors springing them out of jail on account of being dead.
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
the violent coup attempt likely wouldn't have happened if we hadn't decided all the lies and propaganda of the last fifty years were just people exercising their free speech until it grew into a literal billion dollar media industry
i am sure everyone who took part is expecting a pardon
See, but wouldn’t that mean an admission of guilt, and implicate everyone else involved (ie their favorite politicians)? They really didn’t think this through. Of course neither does trump so I’m thinking it might actually happen.
Pardons are generally perceived as 'yes you committed a crime, but you're forgiven and should suffer no punishment for it because it wasn't really a crime, not really'.
It's the 'yes I did it and it was awesome' phase written into law.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+5
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
We're at a point where it's less tribalism and more about one specific tribe refusing reality and being willing to do anything to destroy the enemies they have been instructed to hate. The "left" isn't a tribe really, it's a bunch of very different groups that agree ~just enough~ to caucus together and only barely at that. These forums are a great example of this.
But that 30% of the right? That's these groups. People who have just decided reality, their jobs, their eyes, their own family... nothing about any of those things matters compared to the hate they have been instructed to have by nonstop right-wing media, or the spite they feel about literally everything when reality doesn't confirm to their personal bias.
The old axiom of "conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed" is the first, and only, rule that matters. Once Trump is shown to be a loser he will, in short order, be attached to this axiom and be swept away. This is why he cannot admit defeat in the election, nor can the folks who directly caucus with that 30%. If the enemy stole the election, he didn't fail conservatives and is still able to grift from them. If he admits he lost legitimately, he will be tossed aside and loathed as quickly as Romney or McCain.
+18
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
The absolute minimum bottom line here outside of right wing and Republican Party failings and complicity, is the absolute unbelievable and unforgivable failure of security here. Just a stunningly unacceptable and amateur level of incompetence and dereliction of duty here. Every single person who had anything even remotely to do with the logistics and organisation of security here needs to be fired and then made an example of
I understand the unique aspect of this failure is the complicity, either direct or unconscious through underestimating their own “tribe” here, but just as a basic example of failing at the highest level here is staggering. There is subtle and more complex issues here, to do with Trump appointees or right leaning leaders of security underestimating due to the attackers being culturally and politically similar to them. But even outside of that there were surface level failings here that should terrify every level of security in the US
Prohass on
+17
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Teamregular
The absolute minimum bottom line here outside of right wing and Republican Party failings and complicity, is the absolute unbelievable and unforgivable failure of security here. Just a stunningly unacceptable and amateur level of incompetence and dereliction of duty here. Every single person who had anything even remotely to do with the logistics and organisation of security here needs to be fired and then made an example of
I understand the unique aspect of this failure is the complicity, either direct or unconscious through underestimating their own “tribe” here, but just as a basic example of failing at the highest level here is staggering. There is subtle and more complex issues here, to do with Trump appointees or right leaning leaders of security underestimating due to the attackers being culturally and politically similar to them. But even outside of that there were surface level failings here that should terrify every level of security in the US
There was a former government official on TV yesterday, truly wish I could remember his name, who made a very clear point that this was not an issue of capability, or capacity. That we have specific models of engagement for high risk events that are designed to deal with threats far greater than what happened yesterday. He gave examples of things like The State of the Union, the UN when all the world leaders show up, etc. - we run those events in such a way that much larger threats could emerge and be easily deflected / dismantled.
The issue here was either:
A failure of imagination; not thinking that this thing deserved the special event, high risk planning that we are more than capable of doing.
A willful choice to let it happen.
Either one of those, which really are the only possible options, means all the people responsible for this outcome should either lose their job, or go to prison.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
+43
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
yeah i'm less willing to call it a failure the more we're learning it was due to specific orders to stand down and specific choices not to share information
failure doesn't seem like the correct word for sabotage
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
Meanwhile, a current Metro D.C. police officer on the scene yesterday said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the Capitol.
(Natasha Bertrand is a national security correspondent for politico and MSNBC contributor)
Mutiny or sedition is punishable by court martial or even death. Bold move.
Aren't punishments for military and police who take part in such stuff really harsh because they have are a rolemodel of sorts and took an oath?
Probably not police but for military personnel the punishment can get really harsh because of the potentially deadly consequences. A person willing to attack their government is not someone you want to trust with information and weapons intended to secure it.
If any military are IDed their ass is toast. No ones getting the death penalty but at best they’re getting kicked out, no benefits, no recommendations, and essentially black listed from pretty much anyone working with the government.
+40
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
you can nuke it remotely but it's not a magic wand
it needs to be turned on and connected to the internet and you need to know it's turned on and connected to the internet and have access to it
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+10
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
This seems like a big ask considering based on Pelosi’s unlocked computer they don’t even have policy mandated auto-locks.
It’s seeming a lot like Congress doesn’t have IT policy, or IT security worse than Whole Foods.
PSN: Honkalot
+6
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Failure of imagination... reminds me of the post-9/11 BS where people said nobody could have expected terrorists to use planes as weapons. Except for Tom Clancy who had it as a major point in a book published seven years earlier, but yeah, other than that completely unexpected.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+18
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
This seems like a big ask considering based on Pelosi’s unlocked computer they don’t even have policy mandated auto-locks.
It’s seeming a lot like Congress doesn’t have IT policy, or IT security worse than Whole Foods.
to be fair very few places have good IT policy and even fewer have users who follow it adequately
I imagine we'll see the military try to track down all the fuckers that were involved. Then court martial their asses and once that's done and they've been made examples of. We'll probably see a bunch of active duty and reserve duty people get the fun lecture of what their oath meant and the not so subtle, "if you can't agree to those terms, get the fuck out now. Don't fuck around because you won't like what happens after" speech.
Failure of imagination... reminds me of the post-9/11 BS where people said nobody could have expected terrorists to use planes as weapons. Except for Tom Clancy who had it as a major point in a book published seven years earlier, but yeah, other than that completely unexpected.
Just because reporters, random folks like us on the internet, and talking heads all imagined it, doesn't mean the people responsible for setting up the security did.
As I wrote that I got madder than I already am, btw. If this is the case, they really should be removed from their post and the people who put them there should be punished for hiring someone so catastrophically unqualified.
But honestly, option two is the real one. They saw it coming, and they said good. Or, it's a blend of one and two. They saw it coming, and said good, not realizing that these fuckers were going to plant bombs, kill cops, and shoot into the chambers of congress. So, basically a lack of understanding of how fucked up their fellow travelers actually are.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
+10
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
This seems like a big ask considering based on Pelosi’s unlocked computer they don’t even have policy mandated auto-locks.
It’s seeming a lot like Congress doesn’t have IT policy, or IT security worse than Whole Foods.
Can you cite what you are specifically talking about? I have seen speculation, but let's tamp that down.
the military sadly still has a lot of work to do to thin its ranks of white supremacists though
A lot of them do manage to grow out of it in the military having to serve alongside minorities and such but for those who come by their hate not through ignorance, its much harder, both to identify them and to get rid of them
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
It's fear of losing cultural dominance. "Take our country back." From whom? For whom? Once you figure out the answer to those two questions, the whole thing becomes obvious.
I have come back to this again and again, but I think it is foundational to understanding everything that has happened in the last decade:
Barack Obama's approval rating among white people fell below 50% after the arrest of Henry Louis Gates. It never reached 50% again during his presidency. White people were OK (ish) with Barack Obama being president and being a black man. They were not fine with Barack Obama expressing his opinion as a black man while president. You saw this again when he said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son and with his reaction to the protests in Ferguson and Baltimore in the last year of his presidency.
It's also why these people freak out when advertisements casually include mixed race families or families where the parents are same sex. Because that's an obvious sign that they're losing their cultural domination.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
+69
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I hope right now if any of you have acquaintances or coworkers who are supportive or equivocative of Trump or the Capitol Hill riot, please tell them to fuck the entire way off. Report them to their HR director, corporate media director, and manager if you have to. Even if you don’t work at the same company.
I’m tired of there not being consequences for being a Nazi.
+27
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I hope right now if any of you have acquaintances or coworkers who are supportive or equivocative of Trump or the Capitol Hill riot, please tell them to fuck the entire way off. Report them to their HR director, corporate media director, and manager if you have to. Even if you don’t work at the same company.
I’m tired of there not being consequences for being a Nazi.
I'm pretty sure my parents supported this, which means fully cutting them out of my life finally. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to, but it really doesn't make me happy.
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
We're at a point where it's less tribalism and more about one specific tribe refusing reality and being willing to do anything to destroy the enemies they have been instructed to hate. The "left" isn't a tribe really, it's a bunch of very different groups that agree ~just enough~ to caucus together and only barely at that. These forums are a great example of this.
But that 30% of the right? That's these groups. People who have just decided reality, their jobs, their eyes, their own family... nothing about any of those things matters compared to the hate they have been instructed to have by nonstop right-wing media, or the spite they feel about literally everything when reality doesn't confirm to their personal bias.
The old axiom of "conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed" is the first, and only, rule that matters. Once Trump is shown to be a loser he will, in short order, be attached to this axiom and be swept away. This is why he cannot admit defeat in the election, nor can the folks who directly caucus with that 30%. If the enemy stole the election, he didn't fail conservatives and is still able to grift from them. If he admits he lost legitimately, he will be tossed aside and loathed as quickly as Romney or McCain.
Nope this isn't true. The new saying now is "Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed." He is a fascist cult leader, his supporters aren't going anywhere.
I hope right now if any of you have acquaintances or coworkers who are supportive or equivocative of Trump or the Capitol Hill riot, please tell them to fuck the entire way off. Report them to their HR director, corporate media director, and manager if you have to. Even if you don’t work at the same company.
I’m tired of there not being consequences for being a Nazi.
I'm pretty sure my parents supported this, which means fully cutting them out of my life finally. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to, but it really doesn't make me happy.
You are talking to the All-State champion of familial estrangement
+24
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Reading comments on GOP facebook page is oddly fascinating. In addition to false flag Antififa, one poster said they were BLM protesters in disguise.
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
We're at a point where it's less tribalism and more about one specific tribe refusing reality and being willing to do anything to destroy the enemies they have been instructed to hate. The "left" isn't a tribe really, it's a bunch of very different groups that agree ~just enough~ to caucus together and only barely at that. These forums are a great example of this.
But that 30% of the right? That's these groups. People who have just decided reality, their jobs, their eyes, their own family... nothing about any of those things matters compared to the hate they have been instructed to have by nonstop right-wing media, or the spite they feel about literally everything when reality doesn't confirm to their personal bias.
The old axiom of "conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed" is the first, and only, rule that matters. Once Trump is shown to be a loser he will, in short order, be attached to this axiom and be swept away. This is why he cannot admit defeat in the election, nor can the folks who directly caucus with that 30%. If the enemy stole the election, he didn't fail conservatives and is still able to grift from them. If he admits he lost legitimately, he will be tossed aside and loathed as quickly as Romney or McCain.
Nope this isn't true. The new saying now is "Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed." He is a fascist cult leader, his supporters aren't going anywhere.
Time will tell! It's actually easier if you are right, because he is a very unhealthy old man and his progeny don't have his level of cultural impact.
If it's just conservatism, those supporters will just migrate to the next platform. If its only Trump, once he is gone they probably lose most of their cohesion.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
enlightenedbum on
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
As the Pod Save America people pointed out this is a worse security breach than 9/11 because not only did they know this would happen but they could have planned to deal with it. We had ALL OF CONGRESS AND THE VEEPS IN THE FUCKING SAME PLACE and this happened. It is an unprecedented and historically awful security fuckup. It makes us look weak and stupid and unprepared. And we were all those things.
Not just insurrectionists, but now literal traitors stealing classified information. Between this, the Pentagon breech, and the White House security problems, I can't imagine there is much in the US secrets vault that isn't widely known now.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
This seems like a big ask considering based on Pelosi’s unlocked computer they don’t even have policy mandated auto-locks.
It’s seeming a lot like Congress doesn’t have IT policy, or IT security worse than Whole Foods.
My understanding is the computer in Pelosi's office was one used for just general communications and so-on and nothing classified / secret (although still potentially sensitive). Truly classified / high value stuff is communicated through much more secure networks / infrastructure and a SCIF that wasn't breached.
The account I saw said that her computer was open to the 'GTFO RIGHT NOW' communication, so even if it had a 5-10 minute lock-out there may not have been time before they broke in. Still doesn't completely excuse someone locking it before they left, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that may not have been the highest priority when a lynch mob is hunting for you.
The laptop with sensitive information is new news and I haven't seen many details on it. I'd assume the drive is encrypted at the very least and has standard security features that would stop someone from casually accessing any data - probably not enough to stop a nation-state but likely to still slow them down a bit.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
Despite what ended up happening, his purpose was to kill protestors damaging property, right? She was killed after breaking through a door. Maybe I'm confused, but it seemed like cognitive dissonance.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
Despite what ended up happening, his purpose was to kill protestors damaging property, right? She was killed after breaking through a door. Maybe I'm confused, but it seemed like cognitive dissonance.
Kyle Rittenhouse was willing to kill to preserve white supremacy. She was killed trying to enforce white supremacy.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
+61
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
That one horrible person decrying the police for shooting at them when they should only shoot BLM is telling here. It's fine for these fucks to kill cops for a photo op, but if cops defend their own elected politicians its a nightmare and who would have thought it!?
Every one of them needs to face federal prosecution. Trumps 10 year minimum sentence for damaging a monument applies here. Put them all in jail.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
Despite what ended up happening, his purpose was to kill protestors damaging property, right? She was killed after breaking through a door. Maybe I'm confused, but it seemed like cognitive dissonance.
Kyle Rittenhouse was willing to kill to preserve white supremacy. She was killed trying to enforce white supremacy.
I'm definitely not trying to downplay either person's obvious racism. I'm trying to reconcile the two overt disingenuous conservative narratives. If what I said sounded like I was buying into the conservative version of either of their stories, then I'm sorry. It's a topic that probably warrants less sarcasm than i used in my initial post.
Also, looks like the right is trying to turn the woman who died into a martyr. Posts all over Facebook and Twitter about how she was unarmed innocent protester and how suddenly liberals love police brutality.
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
Despite what ended up happening, his purpose was to kill protestors damaging property, right? She was killed after breaking through a door. Maybe I'm confused, but it seemed like cognitive dissonance.
Kyle Rittenhouse was willing to kill to preserve white supremacy. She was killed trying to enforce white supremacy.
I'm definitely not trying to downplay either person's obvious racism. I'm trying to reconcile the two overt disingenuous conservative narratives. If what I said sounded like I was buying into the conservative version of either of their stories, then I'm sorry.
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't kill people while trying to defend property, he killed people while defending himself from wild-eyed fanatics who were trying to kill him
This is the literal and actual belief of people on the right
Posts
See, but wouldn’t that mean an admission of guilt, and implicate everyone else involved (ie their favorite politicians)? They really didn’t think this through. Of course neither does trump so I’m thinking it might actually happen.
reports are it was Jeff Merkley (D-OR) whose laptop was stolen
Other common themes were examples such as: "Why was violence allowed during the BLM riots and now this is considered a disgrace" and "The fraudulent elections of November and yesterday were an attack on our country."
Im not a US citizen or particularly expert on US politics so I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but tribal warfare politics seems a really complex major issue. Presumably most or at least many more people would condemn violent coup attempts if there wasn't a whole "my tribe is this and i remain loyal to it and opposed to this other tribe as a default" aspect? Some laws or fact checking authority with real power to hold proven in court factually wrong propaganda to account?
Still, find the fuckers and charge them with treason. Heads need to fucking roll, in order to drive home that this shit will not be tolerated. As an aside, this gets into the one areas where I'm perfectly fine with the death penalty. Dead traitors don't get to hope for future traitors springing them out of jail on account of being dead.
the violent coup attempt likely wouldn't have happened if we hadn't decided all the lies and propaganda of the last fifty years were just people exercising their free speech until it grew into a literal billion dollar media industry
Pardons are generally perceived as 'yes you committed a crime, but you're forgiven and should suffer no punishment for it because it wasn't really a crime, not really'.
It's the 'yes I did it and it was awesome' phase written into law.
We're at a point where it's less tribalism and more about one specific tribe refusing reality and being willing to do anything to destroy the enemies they have been instructed to hate. The "left" isn't a tribe really, it's a bunch of very different groups that agree ~just enough~ to caucus together and only barely at that. These forums are a great example of this.
But that 30% of the right? That's these groups. People who have just decided reality, their jobs, their eyes, their own family... nothing about any of those things matters compared to the hate they have been instructed to have by nonstop right-wing media, or the spite they feel about literally everything when reality doesn't confirm to their personal bias.
The old axiom of "conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed" is the first, and only, rule that matters. Once Trump is shown to be a loser he will, in short order, be attached to this axiom and be swept away. This is why he cannot admit defeat in the election, nor can the folks who directly caucus with that 30%. If the enemy stole the election, he didn't fail conservatives and is still able to grift from them. If he admits he lost legitimately, he will be tossed aside and loathed as quickly as Romney or McCain.
I would be surprised if there weren't at least a few agents of foreign powers hanging in the mob just in case things got crazy and they could take advantage.
I understand the unique aspect of this failure is the complicity, either direct or unconscious through underestimating their own “tribe” here, but just as a basic example of failing at the highest level here is staggering. There is subtle and more complex issues here, to do with Trump appointees or right leaning leaders of security underestimating due to the attackers being culturally and politically similar to them. But even outside of that there were surface level failings here that should terrify every level of security in the US
There was a former government official on TV yesterday, truly wish I could remember his name, who made a very clear point that this was not an issue of capability, or capacity. That we have specific models of engagement for high risk events that are designed to deal with threats far greater than what happened yesterday. He gave examples of things like The State of the Union, the UN when all the world leaders show up, etc. - we run those events in such a way that much larger threats could emerge and be easily deflected / dismantled.
The issue here was either:
Either one of those, which really are the only possible options, means all the people responsible for this outcome should either lose their job, or go to prison.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
failure doesn't seem like the correct word for sabotage
Wouldn't all sensitive stuff be stored in the cloud anyway. And IT will have ways of nuking the computer remotely?
At least that's how my work computer is set up.
Probably not police but for military personnel the punishment can get really harsh because of the potentially deadly consequences. A person willing to attack their government is not someone you want to trust with information and weapons intended to secure it.
If any military are IDed their ass is toast. No ones getting the death penalty but at best they’re getting kicked out, no benefits, no recommendations, and essentially black listed from pretty much anyone working with the government.
you can nuke it remotely but it's not a magic wand
it needs to be turned on and connected to the internet and you need to know it's turned on and connected to the internet and have access to it
This seems like a big ask considering based on Pelosi’s unlocked computer they don’t even have policy mandated auto-locks.
It’s seeming a lot like Congress doesn’t have IT policy, or IT security worse than Whole Foods.
to be fair very few places have good IT policy and even fewer have users who follow it adequately
Just because reporters, random folks like us on the internet, and talking heads all imagined it, doesn't mean the people responsible for setting up the security did.
As I wrote that I got madder than I already am, btw. If this is the case, they really should be removed from their post and the people who put them there should be punished for hiring someone so catastrophically unqualified.
But honestly, option two is the real one. They saw it coming, and they said good. Or, it's a blend of one and two. They saw it coming, and said good, not realizing that these fuckers were going to plant bombs, kill cops, and shoot into the chambers of congress. So, basically a lack of understanding of how fucked up their fellow travelers actually are.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Can you cite what you are specifically talking about? I have seen speculation, but let's tamp that down.
A lot of them do manage to grow out of it in the military having to serve alongside minorities and such but for those who come by their hate not through ignorance, its much harder, both to identify them and to get rid of them
It's fear of losing cultural dominance. "Take our country back." From whom? For whom? Once you figure out the answer to those two questions, the whole thing becomes obvious.
I have come back to this again and again, but I think it is foundational to understanding everything that has happened in the last decade:
Barack Obama's approval rating among white people fell below 50% after the arrest of Henry Louis Gates. It never reached 50% again during his presidency. White people were OK (ish) with Barack Obama being president and being a black man. They were not fine with Barack Obama expressing his opinion as a black man while president. You saw this again when he said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son and with his reaction to the protests in Ferguson and Baltimore in the last year of his presidency.
It's also why these people freak out when advertisements casually include mixed race families or families where the parents are same sex. Because that's an obvious sign that they're losing their cultural domination.
I’m tired of there not being consequences for being a Nazi.
I'm pretty sure my parents supported this, which means fully cutting them out of my life finally. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to, but it really doesn't make me happy.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Nope this isn't true. The new saying now is "Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed." He is a fascist cult leader, his supporters aren't going anywhere.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
You are talking to the All-State champion of familial estrangement
Time will tell! It's actually easier if you are right, because he is a very unhealthy old man and his progeny don't have his level of cultural impact.
If it's just conservatism, those supporters will just migrate to the next platform. If its only Trump, once he is gone they probably lose most of their cohesion.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
But wasn't she doing the sort of thing that Kyle Rittenhouse would've killed someone over?
No.
My understanding is the computer in Pelosi's office was one used for just general communications and so-on and nothing classified / secret (although still potentially sensitive). Truly classified / high value stuff is communicated through much more secure networks / infrastructure and a SCIF that wasn't breached.
The account I saw said that her computer was open to the 'GTFO RIGHT NOW' communication, so even if it had a 5-10 minute lock-out there may not have been time before they broke in. Still doesn't completely excuse someone locking it before they left, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that may not have been the highest priority when a lynch mob is hunting for you.
The laptop with sensitive information is new news and I haven't seen many details on it. I'd assume the drive is encrypted at the very least and has standard security features that would stop someone from casually accessing any data - probably not enough to stop a nation-state but likely to still slow them down a bit.
Despite what ended up happening, his purpose was to kill protestors damaging property, right? She was killed after breaking through a door. Maybe I'm confused, but it seemed like cognitive dissonance.
Kyle Rittenhouse was willing to kill to preserve white supremacy. She was killed trying to enforce white supremacy.
Every one of them needs to face federal prosecution. Trumps 10 year minimum sentence for damaging a monument applies here. Put them all in jail.
I'm definitely not trying to downplay either person's obvious racism. I'm trying to reconcile the two overt disingenuous conservative narratives. If what I said sounded like I was buying into the conservative version of either of their stories, then I'm sorry. It's a topic that probably warrants less sarcasm than i used in my initial post.
Kyle Rittenhouse didn't kill people while trying to defend property, he killed people while defending himself from wild-eyed fanatics who were trying to kill him
This is the literal and actual belief of people on the right
So no, for them there is no cognitive dissonance