The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
[Second Impeachment] Acquitted of Armed Insurrection | 57 Votes for Guilty
Posts
I'm pretty sure he's going to pardon himself before the inauguration.
They kinda had a fucking day.
And sure all the Trump voters will get pissed off and hate them, but they'll have at least 2 years to get over it. 2 years they get to obstruct Biden, pearl clutch about literally everything the Democrats do, and hysterical fearmongering from Fox News.
At least, I hope that's what they do..
Doesn't stop NY from demanding his ass be extradited.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
A bunch of them want to be President! But they think they can avoid responsibility and instead of dealing with the guy who might be able to make their whole run moot (hopefully he is in jail but we will see) they cower. Same collective action problem happened in their last primary
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
It's not the worst plan really if you can find that fine path to walk. Even in 2015 its was clear Trump had hard support of a chunk of Republican voters and going after him was definitely a 'best not miss' sort of thing.
Democrats clearly understood it a lot better in 2019 / 2020 when they all came together to pants Bloomberg before going back to attacking each other. Although I'm pretty sure Warren saw getting to eviscerate him on stage a major perk of running regardless of anyone else getting blows in.
For elected Republicand, keeping your head down for a week and a half and letting someone else deal with Trump (or just running out the clock) without taking any stand is definitely the smart personal choice. Its cowardly but Republicans.
Holding the impeachment vote, then after Warnock / Ossoff / Harris are there continuing to the conclusion at least forces the GOP to take a position. I half expect even then the GOP caucus finds a way to duck out of their responsibility to vote, either abstaining 'because it doesn't matter now' or something to avoid taking a side.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html
That's if they survive this intact as other parties have gone poof for less
IMO not much need for thing to take long either. Every member of the Senate was either present with the insurrectionists stormed the capitol or they were paying attention to the news. This shit is also indefensible. There is no need to any sort of debate here. Either one agrees this shit wasn't acceptable or they don't and that's an opinion that is unlikely to change between now and whenever the vote to remove happens. So yeah, Mitch can fuck right off with his bullshit.
If you want any GOP on board the window seems likely to be hours or a few days.
right now the best possible (likely) outcome is the House votes to impeach and the Senate votes to acquit or punts. even if the Senate were to convict there is pretty much zero chance of removal
that is almost entirely a pointless result
the House sets the date the Senate must take up the trial, so by pushing it out, they can have the trial when they control the Senate, and they can use the leverage of the trial to pressure agreement on Biden's First 100 Days agenda
it's a pretty smart move given the reality that as long as McConnell controls the Senate, any action taken against Trump will be purely symbolic and entirely ineffective
with removal not an option, the only real point of impeachment is preventing Trump being able to run again, which McConnell is not apparently willing to force his caucus to vote on
McConnell is not going to allow his members to do the right thing even if they want to
there isn't a realistic way around that
correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for
I really feel like these politicians operate at the speed of a daily newspaper instead of the internet
they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed
They probably wouldn't anyway and it's depressing but like, they might have done the right thing in the time it took for the adrenaline to leave their bodies after they almost got killed by Trump.
They are still taking the vote. The House then sets the date the Senate is required to begin their trial. That date is the one now planned for later (when they'll actually be able to do anything with it)
you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above
What leverage? This is completely silly. The hell is the point of impeachment someone to remove them from am office they are no longer in??? If you aren't going to do anything before Trump leaves office, then the only thing to do after he does is an actual trial that throws him in jail.
removal has absolutely no chance of success
the purpose is to remove Trump's pension, protections, and ability to run for public office ever again
they are taking the vote in the House and then they are delaying the Senate trial until they are in control of the Senate and after Biden has a chance to effect his agenda, so that it doesn't get in the way, because there is zero purpose for doing it any sooner given the reality of what it can actually accomplish
This is pretty unexpected, I’d say. Even people defending the Democratic leadership weren’t telling anyone to wait a hundred days. You’d read something like they’re just drawing up the articles and they’d impeach, and it’s a crazy week and that’s the whole delay. If nothing has changed, then why do you find yourself making arguments you weren’t writing literally a day ago? Not saying they’re the wrong arguments, but the idea this is what people assumed was coming is pretty unconvincing.
If you do it sooner and the GOP/Pence deny it worse damage is done re:Trump being vindicated of this a second time. Tensions are high, this has to stick to prevent his cancer from spreading again.
i think the issue here is a misunderstanding of how the process works
the House is voting to impeach. they are at least taking up the issue tomorrow. if they don't vote tomorrow, it will be within a matter of days (it is possible the process just takes longer than tomorrow to get from initiating to voting). this part has not changed.
after the House votes to impeach, impeachment is different from other legislative processes in that the House sets the date at which the Senate must begin their trial. the issue is the Senate at that point only needs to begin their process. how long it takes is entirely up to McConnell at that point.
what has changed is last week it looked remotely possible McConnell might actually allow this to go to trial before Trump leaves office. it is now clear he will do what he always does and protect his members from having to take a difficult vote as long as he is able to do that
this means removal by Congress is 100% not going to happen regardless of anything Democrats could possibly do
if that is the case, the only thing Democrats can hope to achieve through pursuing impeachment is removing the benefits Trump receives as a former President and preventing him from running for office again. there is no reason that needs to be done Jan 21, and there is now no possibility of that being done sooner
so the choice becomes beginning Biden's presidency fighting for a Senate trial that many people are now going to see as a petty waste of time, or beginning Biden's presidency enacting legislation we need to get done and dealing with the Trump issue later when it will be less of a hindrance to what Biden wants to accomplish out of the gate
there is no chance anymore that Congress solves the Trump problem for us before Trump is out of office. McConnell simply is not going to let it happen. that wasn't clear (though it was entirely predictable) three or four days ago
Democrats are literally doing all they can at this point to ensure Trump sees any consequences at all
They obviously can.
what can they do?
Rush impeachment to this congress, feel good about making Republicans own the fact they will defend Trump and ultimately not have anything of consequence happen.
or
Pace impeachment so that it falls to the next congress where despite not feeling as good there will be a resulting trial that can take as long as it needs to. Still no guarantee that you get the 2/3rds vote to remove.
I think the first option is what will satisfy me as swift decisive action, but the second option will be more thorough and have a result I want.
I'll wait. I'll still be angry senate Republicans are shitty traitors to the constitution but that's not new.
Why not both? There's no actual limit to how many times you can impeach someone. It's also crazy to say that having the GOP say sedition is also not enough for them to actually do anything would have no effect.