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[Second Impeachment] Acquitted of Armed Insurrection | 57 Votes for Guilty

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  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Lanz wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »



    Josh Scherr is a writer and narrative designer for Naughty Dog, a major video game developer and publisher
    This certainly doesn't give me hope the Democrats - despite currently holding the WH, House, & Senate - will enact any meaningful election reform, healthcare reform, minimum wage increases, climate change bills, or anything we elected them for. This is Keystone Cops shit.

    Good for you, random guy that works for Naughty Dog?

    I mean I quoted Chuck Wendig too, but go off I guess

    Yes.

    That was also asinine.

    But I chose to simply roll my eyes rather than say anything.

    Then when you did the same god damned thing 10 minutes later I felt I should say something.

    Like, come on:
    Lanz wrote: »

    Josh Scherr is a writer and narrative designer for Naughty Dog, a major video game developer and publisher
    This certainly doesn't give me hope the Democrats - despite currently holding the WH, House, & Senate - will enact any meaningful election reform, healthcare reform, minimum wage increases, climate change bills, or anything we elected them for. This is Keystone Cops shit.

    This is a super backwards take because the most powerful democrat pushing to end impeachment is the one that would rather the senate be working on this stuff.

    Before we go back into the "both-and" rigamorale: I'm not defending his choice, but Biden has clearly not given a shit about impeachment from the start, and has been pushing senators to cobble together his 1.9 bil covid plan ASAP. Legislation will happen, even if not everything that was promised. Meanwhile Biden never even ran on impeaching Trump or sending his DoJ after him.

    Rahkeesh, even though I disagree with them that this was super backwards, at least tried to address the point that was being made, about the anxiety, fear and broken faith that many are feeling from the way the Democrats handled today’s events. While you just decided to brush it off as asinine instead of actually taking folks feelings on this shit seriously

    Lanz on
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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    A month ago we thought there would be one, maybe 2 republican votes to convinct.

    Three days ago we thought maybe 6 at most. We got 7. That's not nothing.

    Point spread doent matter

    shit since we DID get 7 if we had a few days of witnesses giving harrowing testimony they might have actually convicted him

    10 more Republican Senators? Not a chance. There aren't enough left after what we got without dipping into 'true believer' territory.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm honestly wondering if it would have made a difference if the mob had actually harmed any of the people they were after.

    They murdered a cop.

    No, unless they killed enough GOP senators to make 'present' more than 2/3.

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm honestly wondering if it would have made a difference if the mob had actually harmed any of the people they were after.

    I sincerely doubt it.

    Maybe if Trump had actually marched with them and then personally stood over congress members being killed while cackling madly.

    Maybe.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm honestly wondering if it would have made a difference if the mob had actually harmed any of the people they were after.

    I'd say no not in the slightest.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm honestly wondering if it would have made a difference if the mob had actually harmed any of the people they were after.

    I'd say no not in the slightest.

    "No way I'm voting to convict. I don't want to be next."

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    Artereis wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    Artereis wrote: »
    So wait, was there no vote to disqualify Trump from holding future office? Why the hell not?

    Because he has to be convicted first

    I thought there were pages of discussion saying that conviction wasn't necessary for that vote.

    Shockingly some people on the internet were wrong.

    That wasn’t “Some people on the internet”

    That was a legitimate constitutional question brought up as we were heading into the impeachment, with actual legal scholars addressing the viability.
    CAN TRUMP BE DISQUALIFIED IF HE IS NOT CONVICTED BY THE SENATE?

    This is uncharted legal territory, and there is no clear answer, scholars said.

    Paul Campos, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Colorado, said he believed a vote to disqualify Trump can be held even if there are not enough votes for conviction. The U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that the Senate has wide latitude to determine how it conducts a trial, he said.

    But Kalt said he thought disqualification would require conviction first. To do otherwise would be the equivalent of punishing the president for an offense he did not commit, Kalt said.

    All three judges who were disqualified from office were first convicted.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-explainer-idUSKBN29I356

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Well. I greatly dislike what my government chose to do today. I need to figure out how to get over it and do the things that will matter to me, acquittal be damned.

    Not that I have the slightest inkling on how to make that attitude into action right now. I just now that, I need to reach that point and until I do, I won’t be nearly as productive in any meaningful way that counts.

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  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    Do you guys think that calling witnesses would have gotten them the number of Republicans they needed? Literally nothing would have changed except for more time being wasted when we have vital shit that will save lives that needs to get done. Does that mean that impeachment wasn't important? Hell no, of course it was, but the Republicans decided they were going to throw their courage and morals out the window a long time ago and they were never going to vote to convict regardless of the circumstance. I don't understand what you expected the dem's to do here, use mind control on them?? They presented their case and it was damning, the rest is on the spineless conservatives.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Well. I greatly dislike what my government chose to do today. I need to figure out how to get over it and do the things that will matter to me, acquittal be damned.

    Not that I have the slightest inkling on how to make that attitude into action right now. I just now that, I need to reach that point and until I do, I won’t be nearly as productive in any meaningful way that counts.

    Well if Chris Coons was my Senator I'd want to support a Primary challenge just for that stupid fucking quote he gave.

  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Edit. You know what. Not worth the time.

    jmcdonald on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    .

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited February 2021

    Viskod wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm honestly wondering if it would have made a difference if the mob had actually harmed any of the people they were after.

    I'd say no not in the slightest.

    "No way I'm voting to convict. I don't want to be next."

    They have already been saying this. If a GOP member had been killed, we would be now hearing "were in mourning, this isnt the time for this" and "havent we already paid enough of a price yet?". Some real middle school bullshit 'isnt the hangover punishment enough' for partying

    DiannaoChong on
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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    One side is Game Of Thronesing this shit and the other is all in on team Ned Stark.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    I took a walk and breathed a bit. Had a Guinness. (It was yummy!)

    I think we should all take a step back and breathe.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    A month ago we thought there would be one, maybe 2 republican votes to convinct.

    Three days ago we thought maybe 6 at most. We got 7. That's not nothing.

    Point spread doent matter

    shit since we DID get 7 if we had a few days of witnesses giving harrowing testimony they might have actually convicted him

    10 more Republican Senators? Not a chance. There aren't enough left after what we got without dipping into 'true believer' territory.

    yeah... but thats not the important part, the important part is getting all the testimony on the record and in the news cycle

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    “You can’t make the voters care”

    Pelosi went on camera and said her phone was blowing up from her constituents screaming “IMPEACH”

    Seems like the voters cared a lot! And I don’t think what they really meant was “impeach him but then don’t bother trying very hard in the Senate”

    The thing is, the Republicans proved that you can force the voters to care. Because they hammered on "her emails" for so long that even Democrats cared about it, and assumed Clinton did something particularly wrong there, because if not why did investigation go on for so long, why so many investigations, why did Comey make a comment, etc.

    So if you don't flop over like a dead fish you can get people to care. Unfortunately Democrats only know how to flop over like a dead fish and chew gum, and they're all out of gum.

    In other words: Marketing works.

    Yet somehow the Democrats repeatedly fail to understand that, nor understand how to market a message.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    One side is Game Of Thronesing this shit and the other is all in on team Ned Stark.

    Ned Stark? more like Renley Baratheon, aimlessly marching the army of justice around in circles and then getting murdered by weirdos who shouldn't be electable

  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    well if my man only votes with trump a slight majority of the time instead of a large majority of the time i guess he's not so bad

    Compared to what you would get instead?

    Absofuckinglutely. Trump won by 42 points there in 2016, 39 points in 2020. Without Manchin you have another R senator there,100%.

    The least loyal republican senator voted with Trump 89% of the time. 89 is still more than 53, right? And that would be way worse for the country, correct?

    There's a level of maturity an recognition of political realities here that is lacking.

    Finally, for the "we want them to fight and fail" folks: that is LITERALLY what they just did.

    Everyone knew conviction was never going to happen. It was a political risk to do it, the way this country is currently. But they did it anyway. They fought by impeaching him, voting to convict unanimously, and getting 7 of their peers across the the to do the same.

    Then when they fail, which is what you say you are looking for and what everyone knew was coming, you roast them for not taking longer to do it without reason?

    And as an aside, they got the majority of the Senate to vote to convict. They got an extremely compelling case, for a rational brain, into the historical record. Same with the McCarthy call quote being entered and not contested. And they did it without derailing the first 100 Days by wrapping it up quickly after achieving all the above.

    They achieved everything they could have, here. Best to recognize it and move on to working on repairing all the damage the last 8 years caused so we can get another 4 next.

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    The Democrats also lost in a big way because the GOP get to do this, now:


    Well that was a waste of time.

    Let’s get back to work.

    Account is the Twitter account for Senate Republicans

    They get to sweep this under the rug, normalize call to insurrection, paint the Democratic move for Impeachment as a do-nothing frivolity, and use that as leverage when they next obstruct.

    What do you think would have happened if this had gone on longer?

    I can't imagine a different response.

    I mean I can imagine that there would be positive effects, I think calling a bunch of witnesses and using this as a thing to continuously stress how horrible the GOP is would have been useful.

    But I think the GOP response the entire time would have been "what a waste of time" because that's been the response since the beginning.

    Of the first impeachment.

    A proper prosecution would have meant a media cycle of people giving testimony in Congress about hiding in closets from the president's supporters who were trying to murder them.

    We have literally already had that exact media cycle

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    A month ago we thought there would be one, maybe 2 republican votes to convinct.

    Three days ago we thought maybe 6 at most. We got 7. That's not nothing.

    Point spread doent matter

    shit since we DID get 7 if we had a few days of witnesses giving harrowing testimony they might have actually convicted him

    10 more Republican Senators? Not a chance. There aren't enough left after what we got without dipping into 'true believer' territory.

    yeah... but thats not the important part, the important part is getting all the testimony on the record and in the news cycle

    Honestly every time the news turned to this topic I'd change it, there was nothing to learn that would be important because the outcome was already known. Nothing but disappointment and anger to it. Like this topic coming up was just an immediate tune out no matter the medium.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    A month ago we thought there would be one, maybe 2 republican votes to convinct.

    Three days ago we thought maybe 6 at most. We got 7. That's not nothing.

    Point spread doent matter

    shit since we DID get 7 if we had a few days of witnesses giving harrowing testimony they might have actually convicted him

    10 more Republican Senators? Not a chance. There aren't enough left after what we got without dipping into 'true believer' territory.

    yeah... but thats not the important part, the important part is getting all the testimony on the record and in the news cycle

    Honestly every time the news turned to this topic I'd change it, there was nothing to learn that would be important because the outcome was already known. Nothing but disappointment and anger to it. Like this topic coming up was just an immediate tune out no matter the medium.

    The fact that what happened is essentially 'House managers looked into another component of the strategy that they had previously dismissed, decided against it, as they initially decided' makes it difficult to actually comprehend the amount of vitriol pouring in here.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Do you guys think that calling witnesses would have gotten them the number of Republicans they needed? Literally nothing would have changed except for more time being wasted when we have vital shit that will save lives that needs to get done. Does that mean that impeachment wasn't important? Hell no, of course it was, but the Republicans decided they were going to throw their courage and morals out the window a long time ago and they were never going to vote to convict regardless of the circumstance. I don't understand what you expected the dem's to do here, use mind control on them?? They presented their case and it was damning, the rest is on the spineless conservatives.

    i can understand the argument that the whole thing is a waste of time and they should be focusing on more important things like covid relief, and i can understand that it is important to do the impeachment because it is the right thing to do and it is important to illustrate how bad the republicans are, but I do not understand the middle road where it is important to do the impeachment but not important enough to do it as thoroughly as possible

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    I'm not so mad that I won't vote for the dems in the future

    I am so mad that I will vote for a more progressive candidate, be it dem or independent, than waste a vote on a "middle of the road, let's work together and be nice cause u-n-i-t-y spells unity" dem.

    Better give Fulop his walking papers now

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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Do you guys think that calling witnesses would have gotten them the number of Republicans they needed? Literally nothing would have changed except for more time being wasted when we have vital shit that will save lives that needs to get done. Does that mean that impeachment wasn't important? Hell no, of course it was, but the Republicans decided they were going to throw their courage and morals out the window a long time ago and they were never going to vote to convict regardless of the circumstance. I don't understand what you expected the dem's to do here, use mind control on them?? They presented their case and it was damning, the rest is on the spineless conservatives.

    i can understand the argument that the whole thing is a waste of time and they should be focusing on more important things like covid relief, and i can understand that it is important to do the impeachment because it is the right thing to do and it is important to illustrate how bad the republicans are, but I do not understand the middle road where it is important to do the impeachment but not important enough to do it as thoroughly as possible

    The thinking, I believe, is that doing it more thoroughly (I.E. calling witnesses and the like) would make the process take a lot longer, further delaying other legislative action, and the additional rigor of that work is unlikely to appreciably move the needle. People paying enough attention who haven't been convinced by the arguments and evidence already presented aren't likely to be convinced or change their mind because of witness testimony they could get, and that in 2 years the difference between doing it that much more thoroughly or not will be far less influential than how quickly they got covid relief and other stuff done, which effects peoples lives more directly, so they're more likely to notice and care. Also, allowing for witnesses means that the Republicans would have the opportunity to call their own witnesses, and potentially give them opportunities to further muddy the waters. Muddied waters usually benefit them, because a lot of people have been taught by the implicit biases and assumptions of many pundits and journalists, and others, that when a situation is confusing and unclear, to side with the Republicans as being more 'honest' than Democrats. Both sides suck, vote Republican and all.

    Not to say I necessarily agree with those lines of reasoning, personally I wish they had called witnesses and think it would have made more of a difference than some of them seem to believe, but I can at least see the logic of it.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The impeachment has ended, and we've had 600 posts of the predictable back and forth. If we let it keep going, we'd just get another 600 posts of the same thing, plus probably some infractions.

    That's a wrap, folks.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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