The [Second Impeachment] of the President of the United States | House Vote: 232 - 197

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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Alazull wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    So if I'm understanding this, Trump can be impeached while in office, but convicted after leaving office, in which case the "removal" is toothless but prevents him from holding office again?

    I'm fine with this.

    Although... Donald Trump fucking up the 2024 GOP primary would certainly be an entertaining clownshow.

    Also removes his pension, his travel spending allowance, and removes his Secret Service detail for life.

    So beyond just making it so he can't run again, it also prevents taxpayer money being further spent by this waste of flesh.

    I have to wonder if removing his Secret Service detail would be a good thing... once he's no longer president, wouldn't it be good to have a constant set of eyes on him?

    We can accomplish that by putting him in prison. You know, for the crimes he did.

    I'm pretty sure he's going to pardon himself before the inauguration.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I watched them adjourn live on Wednesday night/Thursday morning. And I was grumpy no Democrat objected.

    They kinda had a fucking day.

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  • XantomasXantomas Heat level critical. Thermal threshold exceeded. Shutdown sequence initiated. Shutdown sequence ov.. Registered User regular
    I could maybe see some Republican Senators voting to convict Trump for his sedition after Jan 20th because that stigma of removing one of their own from office would be gone. And none of them actually want Trump to ever be President again. Convicting him destroys his political career and "saves" the Republican party.

    And sure all the Trump voters will get pissed off and hate them, but they'll have at least 2 years to get over it. 2 years they get to obstruct Biden, pearl clutch about literally everything the Democrats do, and hysterical fearmongering from Fox News.

    At least, I hope that's what they do..

    CelestialBadger
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Bremen wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Alazull wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    So if I'm understanding this, Trump can be impeached while in office, but convicted after leaving office, in which case the "removal" is toothless but prevents him from holding office again?

    I'm fine with this.

    Although... Donald Trump fucking up the 2024 GOP primary would certainly be an entertaining clownshow.

    Also removes his pension, his travel spending allowance, and removes his Secret Service detail for life.

    So beyond just making it so he can't run again, it also prevents taxpayer money being further spent by this waste of flesh.

    I have to wonder if removing his Secret Service detail would be a good thing... once he's no longer president, wouldn't it be good to have a constant set of eyes on him?

    We can accomplish that by putting him in prison. You know, for the crimes he did.

    I'm pretty sure he's going to pardon himself before the inauguration.

    Doesn't stop NY from demanding his ass be extradited.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-lawyers-dershowitz-giuliani/index.html
    lol the traitor in chief wants giuliani and dershowitz to defend him in the senate
    this is gonna be such a shit show, hopefully harris will be around to cross examine giuliani prosecutor to prosecutor
    i wonder if we're gonna get another call for trial by combat

    Five thousand quatloos that the old timer will be destroyed.

    I don't think any politician would be more gleeful about rolling up their sleeves, and going after an opponent, than Harris through Giuliani.

    It'd be a political murder not seen since Warren went after Bloomberg.

    TicaldfjamForarMan in the Mists
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Xantomas wrote: »
    I could maybe see some Republican Senators voting to convict Trump for his sedition after Jan 20th because that stigma of removing one of their own from office would be gone. And none of them actually want Trump to ever be President again. Convicting him destroys his political career and "saves" the Republican party.

    And sure all the Trump voters will get pissed off and hate them, but they'll have at least 2 years to get over it. 2 years they get to obstruct Biden, pearl clutch about literally everything the Democrats do, and hysterical fearmongering from Fox News.

    At least, I hope that's what they do..

    A bunch of them want to be President! But they think they can avoid responsibility and instead of dealing with the guy who might be able to make their whole run moot (hopefully he is in jail but we will see) they cower. Same collective action problem happened in their last primary

    PantsB on
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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Xantomas wrote: »
    I could maybe see some Republican Senators voting to convict Trump for his sedition after Jan 20th because that stigma of removing one of their own from office would be gone. And none of them actually want Trump to ever be President again. Convicting him destroys his political career and "saves" the Republican party.

    And sure all the Trump voters will get pissed off and hate them, but they'll have at least 2 years to get over it. 2 years they get to obstruct Biden, pearl clutch about literally everything the Democrats do, and hysterical fearmongering from Fox News.

    At least, I hope that's what they do..

    A bunch of them want to be President! But they think they can avoid responsibility and instead of dealing with the guy who might be able to make their whole run moot (hopefully he is in jail but we will see) they cower. Same collective action problem happened in their last primary

    It's not the worst plan really if you can find that fine path to walk. Even in 2015 its was clear Trump had hard support of a chunk of Republican voters and going after him was definitely a 'best not miss' sort of thing.

    Democrats clearly understood it a lot better in 2019 / 2020 when they all came together to pants Bloomberg before going back to attacking each other. Although I'm pretty sure Warren saw getting to eviscerate him on stage a major perk of running regardless of anyone else getting blows in.

    For elected Republicand, keeping your head down for a week and a half and letting someone else deal with Trump (or just running out the clock) without taking any stand is definitely the smart personal choice. Its cowardly but Republicans.

    Holding the impeachment vote, then after Warnock / Ossoff / Harris are there continuing to the conclusion at least forces the GOP to take a position. I half expect even then the GOP caucus finds a way to duck out of their responsibility to vote, either abstaining 'because it doesn't matter now' or something to avoid taking a side.

    CelestialBadger
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Sometimes I’m mad at Democrats. Not so often I’m happy. Right now, I’m mostly confused about what’s going on.
    Washington(CNN) House Majority Whip James Clyburn on Sunday said House Democrats might wait until after President-elect Joe Biden's first 100 days in office to send any articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump to the Senate, a move that would give the incoming President time to tackle his agenda in Congress before the start of a time-consuming trial.

    "We'll take the vote that we should take in the House, and (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) will make the determination as to when is the best time to get that vote and get the managers appointed and move that legislation over to the Senate," Clyburn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    "It just so happens that if it didn't go over there for 100 days, it could -- let's give President-elect Biden the 100 days he needs to get his agenda off and running, and maybe we'll send the articles sometime after that," the South Carolina Democrat added.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Really I feel going forward after Biden the idiots of the R will play it safe for a few years letting the democrats basically being that guy wearing his pants as a hat then wheel out whatever lich/vampire lord they deemed acceptable for public viewing
    That's if they survive this intact as other parties have gone poof for less

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Fuck offffffff

    This insurrection needs to be dealt with fast. The longer you wait, the weaker the message becomes, and the weaker the US government appears.

    Which, it is increasingly obvious, is a reflection of the real weakness of the US government. That's a very bad thing considering we just had a fucking coup attempt!

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    McConnell is making news about how if democrats proceed with the vote, it'll consume the first days of the Biden administration because of the calendar. First, fuck Mitch McConnell and every republican that is too chickenshit and/or treasonous to call Trump and his cult out. Second, hey maybe we can ensure that Trump can never ever run for political office again. Third, once again fuck his enablers, they don't want the vote partly because they want Trump's shitty base and are willing to risk the nation's values to get it. So, yeah, have that fucking vote and if we have to spend the first week of Biden's presidency finishing things up, so be it.

    IMO not much need for thing to take long either. Every member of the Senate was either present with the insurrectionists stormed the capitol or they were paying attention to the news. This shit is also indefensible. There is no need to any sort of debate here. Either one agrees this shit wasn't acceptable or they don't and that's an opinion that is unlikely to change between now and whenever the vote to remove happens. So yeah, Mitch can fuck right off with his bullshit.

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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I'm guessing even letting a weekend pass is waiting too long for action.

    If you want any GOP on board the window seems likely to be hours or a few days.

    PSN: Honkalot
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  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Sometimes I’m mad at Democrats. Not so often I’m happy. Right now, I’m mostly confused about what’s going on.
    Washington(CNN) House Majority Whip James Clyburn on Sunday said House Democrats might wait until after President-elect Joe Biden's first 100 days in office to send any articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump to the Senate, a move that would give the incoming President time to tackle his agenda in Congress before the start of a time-consuming trial.

    "We'll take the vote that we should take in the House, and (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) will make the determination as to when is the best time to get that vote and get the managers appointed and move that legislation over to the Senate," Clyburn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    "It just so happens that if it didn't go over there for 100 days, it could -- let's give President-elect Biden the 100 days he needs to get his agenda off and running, and maybe we'll send the articles sometime after that," the South Carolina Democrat added.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html

    right now the best possible (likely) outcome is the House votes to impeach and the Senate votes to acquit or punts. even if the Senate were to convict there is pretty much zero chance of removal

    that is almost entirely a pointless result

    the House sets the date the Senate must take up the trial, so by pushing it out, they can have the trial when they control the Senate, and they can use the leverage of the trial to pressure agreement on Biden's First 100 Days agenda

    it's a pretty smart move given the reality that as long as McConnell controls the Senate, any action taken against Trump will be purely symbolic and entirely ineffective

    with removal not an option, the only real point of impeachment is preventing Trump being able to run again, which McConnell is not apparently willing to force his caucus to vote on

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I was wrong, people were right to ask about specific timelines earlier this week.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    BigJoeMFencingsaxRaijuMan in the Mists
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    I'm guessing even letting a weekend pass is waiting too long for action.

    If you want any GOP on board the window seems likely to be hours or a few days.

    McConnell is not going to allow his members to do the right thing even if they want to

    there isn't a realistic way around that

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Doctor DetroitGiantGeek2020
  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Waiting until thursday evening was already probably too late. 100 days from now this will be in the ancient past.

    I really feel like these politicians operate at the speed of a daily newspaper instead of the internet

    BlindPsychic on
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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

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  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    I'm guessing even letting a weekend pass is waiting too long for action.

    If you want any GOP on board the window seems likely to be hours or a few days.

    McConnell is not going to allow his members to do the right thing even if they want to

    there isn't a realistic way around that

    They probably wouldn't anyway and it's depressing but like, they might have done the right thing in the time it took for the adrenaline to leave their bodies after they almost got killed by Trump.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    "We'll take the vote that we should take in the House, and (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) will make the determination as to when is the best time to get that vote and get the managers appointed and move that legislation over to the Senate," Clyburn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    They are still taking the vote. The House then sets the date the Senate is required to begin their trial. That date is the one now planned for later (when they'll actually be able to do anything with it)

    Chanus on
    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

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  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    Sometimes I’m mad at Democrats. Not so often I’m happy. Right now, I’m mostly confused about what’s going on.
    Washington(CNN) House Majority Whip James Clyburn on Sunday said House Democrats might wait until after President-elect Joe Biden's first 100 days in office to send any articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump to the Senate, a move that would give the incoming President time to tackle his agenda in Congress before the start of a time-consuming trial.

    "We'll take the vote that we should take in the House, and (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) will make the determination as to when is the best time to get that vote and get the managers appointed and move that legislation over to the Senate," Clyburn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    "It just so happens that if it didn't go over there for 100 days, it could -- let's give President-elect Biden the 100 days he needs to get his agenda off and running, and maybe we'll send the articles sometime after that," the South Carolina Democrat added.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html

    right now the best possible (likely) outcome is the House votes to impeach and the Senate votes to acquit or punts. even if the Senate were to convict there is pretty much zero chance of removal

    that is almost entirely a pointless result

    the House sets the date the Senate must take up the trial, so by pushing it out, they can have the trial when they control the Senate, and they can use the leverage of the trial to pressure agreement on Biden's First 100 Days agenda

    What leverage? This is completely silly. The hell is the point of impeachment someone to remove them from am office they are no longer in??? If you aren't going to do anything before Trump leaves office, then the only thing to do after he does is an actual trial that throws him in jail.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Democrats can literally do nothing other than what they are currently doing and you are getting mad at them for doing the only thing they can

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    JaysonFour
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    Sometimes I’m mad at Democrats. Not so often I’m happy. Right now, I’m mostly confused about what’s going on.
    Washington(CNN) House Majority Whip James Clyburn on Sunday said House Democrats might wait until after President-elect Joe Biden's first 100 days in office to send any articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump to the Senate, a move that would give the incoming President time to tackle his agenda in Congress before the start of a time-consuming trial.

    "We'll take the vote that we should take in the House, and (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) will make the determination as to when is the best time to get that vote and get the managers appointed and move that legislation over to the Senate," Clyburn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    "It just so happens that if it didn't go over there for 100 days, it could -- let's give President-elect Biden the 100 days he needs to get his agenda off and running, and maybe we'll send the articles sometime after that," the South Carolina Democrat added.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html

    right now the best possible (likely) outcome is the House votes to impeach and the Senate votes to acquit or punts. even if the Senate were to convict there is pretty much zero chance of removal

    that is almost entirely a pointless result

    the House sets the date the Senate must take up the trial, so by pushing it out, they can have the trial when they control the Senate, and they can use the leverage of the trial to pressure agreement on Biden's First 100 Days agenda

    What leverage? This is completely silly. The hell is the point of impeachment someone to remove them from am office they are no longer in??? If you aren't going to do anything before Trump leaves office, then the only thing to do after he does is an actual trial that throws him in jail.

    removal has absolutely no chance of success

    the purpose is to remove Trump's pension, protections, and ability to run for public office ever again

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    I don't see how I am. Why is he talking about delaying this thing at all? He's clearly testing the waters here or he wouldn't be mentioning a timeline that far out. Yes it would be convenient for other purposes to not immediately go to loggerheads with the Republicans before the inauguration. It's still the wrong thing to do.

    Two days ago they were talking about bringing them like...Monday. Why is the majority whip now talking about 100 days from now? He wouldn't be doing it without reason, and the only reasons I can imagine pale against the need to excise a clear and present danger from the office of president.

    Ringo
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    I don't see how I am. Why is he talking about delaying this thing at all? He's clearly testing the waters here or he wouldn't be mentioning a timeline that far out. Yes it would be convenient for other purposes to not immediately go to loggerheads with the Republicans before the inauguration. It's still the wrong thing to do.

    Two days ago they were talking about bringing them like...Monday. Why is the majority whip now talking about 100 days from now? He wouldn't be doing it without reason, and the only reasons I can imagine pale against the need to excise a clear and present danger from the office of president.

    they are taking the vote in the House and then they are delaying the Senate trial until they are in control of the Senate and after Biden has a chance to effect his agenda, so that it doesn't get in the way, because there is zero purpose for doing it any sooner given the reality of what it can actually accomplish

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Doctor Detroit
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    I don't see how I am. Why is he talking about delaying this thing at all? He's clearly testing the waters here or he wouldn't be mentioning a timeline that far out. Yes it would be convenient for other purposes to not immediately go to loggerheads with the Republicans before the inauguration. It's still the wrong thing to do.

    Two days ago they were talking about bringing them like...Monday. Why is the majority whip now talking about 100 days from now? He wouldn't be doing it without reason, and the only reasons I can imagine pale against the need to excise a clear and present danger from the office of president.

    they are taking the vote in the House and then they are delaying the Senate trial until they are in control of the Senate and after Biden has a chance to effect his agenda, so that it doesn't get in the way, because there is zero purpose for doing it any sooner given the reality of what it can actually accomplish

    That was understandable up until there was a coup attempt on Wednesday. It isn't/shouldn't be politics as usual now.

    Any control system can only tolerate so much delay before it becomes unstable. A coup attempt is a forcing function that must be dealt with speedily if you don't want your control system to fail!

    rahkeesh2000RingoMan in the Mists
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    This is pretty unexpected, I’d say. Even people defending the Democratic leadership weren’t telling anyone to wait a hundred days. You’d read something like they’re just drawing up the articles and they’d impeach, and it’s a crazy week and that’s the whole delay. If nothing has changed, then why do you find yourself making arguments you weren’t writing literally a day ago? Not saying they’re the wrong arguments, but the idea this is what people assumed was coming is pretty unconvincing.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
    Orcadispatch.oTetraNitroCubaneRingo101Dee KaeAridholMan in the Mists
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The other way to look at it is consequences. Do you learn your lesson when you get spanked immediately after you do a bad thing, or when the spanking comes 3 1/2 months after you did the bad thing?

    Delaying 100 days is fucking asinine after half of the House and the entire Senate came within minutes of being face-to-face with a lynch mob.

    rahkeesh2000dispatch.oKraintMr RayMan in the Mists
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    I don't see how I am. Why is he talking about delaying this thing at all? He's clearly testing the waters here or he wouldn't be mentioning a timeline that far out. Yes it would be convenient for other purposes to not immediately go to loggerheads with the Republicans before the inauguration. It's still the wrong thing to do.

    Two days ago they were talking about bringing them like...Monday. Why is the majority whip now talking about 100 days from now? He wouldn't be doing it without reason, and the only reasons I can imagine pale against the need to excise a clear and present danger from the office of president.

    they are taking the vote in the House and then they are delaying the Senate trial until they are in control of the Senate and after Biden has a chance to effect his agenda, so that it doesn't get in the way, because there is zero purpose for doing it any sooner given the reality of what it can actually accomplish

    That was understandable up until there was a coup attempt on Wednesday. It isn't/shouldn't be politics as usual now.

    Any control system can only tolerate so much delay before it becomes unstable. A coup attempt is a forcing function that must be dealt with speedily if you don't want your control system to fail!

    If you do it sooner and the GOP/Pence deny it worse damage is done re:Trump being vindicated of this a second time. Tensions are high, this has to stick to prevent his cancer from spreading again.

    Raiju
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    The timing has changed. 100 days after Biden's inauguration may as well be never for the impact it will have.

    you're not correctly interpreting the statement. see above

    I don't see how I am. Why is he talking about delaying this thing at all? He's clearly testing the waters here or he wouldn't be mentioning a timeline that far out. Yes it would be convenient for other purposes to not immediately go to loggerheads with the Republicans before the inauguration. It's still the wrong thing to do.

    Two days ago they were talking about bringing them like...Monday. Why is the majority whip now talking about 100 days from now? He wouldn't be doing it without reason, and the only reasons I can imagine pale against the need to excise a clear and present danger from the office of president.

    they are taking the vote in the House and then they are delaying the Senate trial until they are in control of the Senate and after Biden has a chance to effect his agenda, so that it doesn't get in the way, because there is zero purpose for doing it any sooner given the reality of what it can actually accomplish

    That was understandable up until there was a coup attempt on Wednesday. It isn't/shouldn't be politics as usual now.

    Any control system can only tolerate so much delay before it becomes unstable. A coup attempt is a forcing function that must be dealt with speedily if you don't want your control system to fail!

    If you do it sooner and the GOP/Pence deny it worse damage is done re:Trump being vindicated of this a second time. Tensions are high, this has to stick to prevent his cancer from spreading again.

    There's talk of another attempt on inauguration day. Tensions are high, and best deal with them quickly, not shove them in the closet until it's more convenient to deal with.

    never die
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    the thing to keep in mind is as much as we want the right thing to be done, the people with the power to do the right thing are entirely unwilling to do it

    And it will be to the detriment of this nation that they don't.

    We've seen the first attempt nearly succeed despite being a bumbling affair. There will be more, and they may be more effective in the future.

    correct. this is not something to blame Democrats for

    I'm blaming Democrats for not bringing articles of impeachment. I'm blaming Republicans for not throwing the fucker out.

    they are still bringing the articles of impeachment. that part hasn't changed

    This is pretty unexpected, I’d say. Even people defending the Democratic leadership weren’t telling anyone to wait a hundred days. You’d read something like they’re just drawing up the articles and they’d impeach, and it’s a crazy week and that’s the whole delay. If nothing has changed, then why do you find yourself making arguments you weren’t writing literally a day ago? Not saying they’re the wrong arguments, but the idea this is what people assumed was coming is pretty unconvincing.

    i think the issue here is a misunderstanding of how the process works

    the House is voting to impeach. they are at least taking up the issue tomorrow. if they don't vote tomorrow, it will be within a matter of days (it is possible the process just takes longer than tomorrow to get from initiating to voting). this part has not changed.

    after the House votes to impeach, impeachment is different from other legislative processes in that the House sets the date at which the Senate must begin their trial. the issue is the Senate at that point only needs to begin their process. how long it takes is entirely up to McConnell at that point.

    what has changed is last week it looked remotely possible McConnell might actually allow this to go to trial before Trump leaves office. it is now clear he will do what he always does and protect his members from having to take a difficult vote as long as he is able to do that

    this means removal by Congress is 100% not going to happen regardless of anything Democrats could possibly do

    if that is the case, the only thing Democrats can hope to achieve through pursuing impeachment is removing the benefits Trump receives as a former President and preventing him from running for office again. there is no reason that needs to be done Jan 21, and there is now no possibility of that being done sooner

    so the choice becomes beginning Biden's presidency fighting for a Senate trial that many people are now going to see as a petty waste of time, or beginning Biden's presidency enacting legislation we need to get done and dealing with the Trump issue later when it will be less of a hindrance to what Biden wants to accomplish out of the gate

    there is no chance anymore that Congress solves the Trump problem for us before Trump is out of office. McConnell simply is not going to let it happen. that wasn't clear (though it was entirely predictable) three or four days ago

    Democrats are literally doing all they can at this point to ensure Trump sees any consequences at all

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    MarathonDoctor DetroitSleepEncshrykeJaysonFourRaiju
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Democrats can literally do nothing other than what they are currently doing and you are getting mad at them for doing the only thing they can

    They obviously can.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    TetraNitroCubanethatassemblyguyReynoldsDavid WalgasMan in the Mists
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Democrats can literally do nothing other than what they are currently doing and you are getting mad at them for doing the only thing they can

    They obviously can.

    what can they do?

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    The choices are -
    Rush impeachment to this congress, feel good about making Republicans own the fact they will defend Trump and ultimately not have anything of consequence happen.

    or

    Pace impeachment so that it falls to the next congress where despite not feeling as good there will be a resulting trial that can take as long as it needs to. Still no guarantee that you get the 2/3rds vote to remove.

    I think the first option is what will satisfy me as swift decisive action, but the second option will be more thorough and have a result I want.

    I'll wait. I'll still be angry senate Republicans are shitty traitors to the constitution but that's not new.

    dispatch.o on
    destroyah87ChanusMarathonRaiju
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    The choices are -
    Rush impeachment to this congress, feel good about making Republicans own the fact they will defend Trump and ultimately not have anything of consequence happen.

    or

    Pace impeachment so that it falls to the next congress where despite not feeling as good there will be a resulting trial that can take as long as it needs to. Still no guarantee that you get the 2/3rds vote to remove.

    Why not both? There's no actual limit to how many times you can impeach someone. It's also crazy to say that having the GOP say sedition is also not enough for them to actually do anything would have no effect.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    ExtreaminatusElvenshaeRingonever diethatassemblyguyAridholMan in the Mists
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