[Second Impeachment] of the 45th President of the United States | Trial: 1pm 02/08/2021

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    I still think the impeachment is important to have. It allows for quick removal if need be. Even though McConnell isn’t going to hold an emergency session, he could. And hopefully that threat is enough for Trump to not decide to cook off a cruise missile.

    zepherin on
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    You're gonna get a lot of purple state Republican Senators saying "I would have voted to convict and remove if Trump were still in office, but he's not, so I'm a no"

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    I thought something like this in 2016, and would rather not take that chance again.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    This would be the dream scenario. But is it worth the risk?

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    valhalla130
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    the thing is, disqualification doesn't prevent a guy who doesn't give a shit about the rules from fucking up the next election for the Republicans, it just prevents him from winning

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    the thing is, disqualification doesn't prevent a guy who doesn't give a shit about the rules from fucking up the next election for the Republicans, it just prevents him from winning

    Trump being deplatformed was a gift to the GOP.

    Prevented from running or not, him losing his megaphone keeps him from twitter shitting on every race and GOP politician who doesn't bend the knee hard enough and being a constant reminder of the support the party gave him the past four years.

    It's a net good for everyone of course, but it really makes it a lot easier for the party to memory hole him - the question is if he toddlers them hard enough that his kicking and screaming break shit on the way down the hatch. There's definitely a non-zero chance but it's at least a more viable approach when he doesn't have his Twitter account if he doesn't want to quietly fuck off to his golf courses.

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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    the thing is, disqualification doesn't prevent a guy who doesn't give a shit about the rules from fucking up the next election for the Republicans, it just prevents him from winning

    Yeah, disqualifying him would bar him from legally appearing on the ballot I believe. He'll still hold his rallys and tell everyone how he is totally gonna win. As long as he is not on the actual ballot, he can hold all the rallys and all the grudges he wants. If that drags down Republicans, even better.

    Overall the government needs to make a statement that shit like this aint gonna fly in the future. He probably will never see the inside of prison, unfortunately, but they really, really need to throw the book at him in some way.

    LordSolarMachariusElvenshae
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    If he is DQ'd, I'd be very interested to see how that new RNC head behaves going forward. Does she continue to make the party more Trumpish or does she do her own thing? Does she have an own thing to do?

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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    Trump needs to be memory-holed. If he can't run for office, he's not going to waste a second trying to throw his weight behind anyone else who is, including his family who all think they can do this, too. We don't need the threat of him hanging around for 2024, because the man's dumb luck so far has proven he could make it that far.

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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    the thing is, disqualification doesn't prevent a guy who doesn't give a shit about the rules from fucking up the next election for the Republicans, it just prevents him from winning

    It's pretty simple to keep the grift going if he cant run. It will be 'donate so I can fight not being able to run', then 'donate because I can totally run'(when he cant), and then he puts one of his kids up on the ballot and repeats the fundraising scams. We'ill see him put in paperwork to run in 2024 on the 20th again.

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  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    If he is DQ'd, I'd be very interested to see how that new RNC head behaves going forward. Does she continue to make the party more Trumpish or does she do her own thing? Does she have an own thing to do?

    They all seem to be grifting at this point, so once Trump is without a platform to direct his mob they should all move on to the next power broker.

    I never expected him to actually get banned from Twitter so I’m having trouble even guessing at what happens next. I was returning a cable box to Comcast and heard an old couple screaming at the poor guy there about Xfinity not having OANN, so it’s tough to say how easy it will be for Trump to maintain his brand.

    If he can’t control the base, the GOP can ignore him and pretend he never happened. If he can still get through, they can’t afford to.

    Taramoor on
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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Chanus wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Honestly, I kinda don't want them to disqualify him. He's never going to get the punishment he actually deserves, so let him drag them down, he's not going to be taking votes from the Dem side of things.

    the thing is, disqualification doesn't prevent a guy who doesn't give a shit about the rules from fucking up the next election for the Republicans, it just prevents him from winning

    It's pretty simple to keep the grift going if he cant run. It will be 'donate so I can fight not being able to run', then 'donate because I can totally run'(when he cant), and then he puts one of his kids up on the ballot and repeats the fundraising scams. We'ill see him put in paperwork to run in 2024 on the 20th again.

    I'm fine with him grifting idiots. He might even discourage right wing crazies from voting at all. And his heft in GOP primaries is weak as fuck despite their terror at the prospect.

    I don't want him ever to be President again. Best way to do that is to disqualify him. Hopefully he will be in prison anyway but if he can't run, his bizarre motivating force that gets out voters who don't otherwise show up will be a nonfactor.

    An official repudiation of his heinous actions is a substantial plus too

    PantsB on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Gyral wrote: »
    Trump needs to be memory-holed. If he can't run for office, he's not going to waste a second trying to throw his weight behind anyone else who is, including his family who all think they can do this, too. We don't need the threat of him hanging around for 2024, because the man's dumb luck so far has proven he could make it that far.

    I've been speculating for years that the GOP would impeach and convict him in order to force him down the memory hole. But it looks like its too late for that.

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  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Is Trump actually perma-banned from Twitter or is it just until after the Inauguration?

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Schumer's statement was that they'd vote to disqualify him if he was convicted. I took note of the exact wording when I read it, for that very reason. If anyone in this thread thinks they're gonna disqualify him with a simple majority after failing to convict him, you're dreaming.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Trump needs to be memory-holed. If he can't run for office, he's not going to waste a second trying to throw his weight behind anyone else who is, including his family who all think they can do this, too. We don't need the threat of him hanging around for 2024, because the man's dumb luck so far has proven he could make it that far.

    I've been speculating for years that the GOP would impeach and convict him in order to force him down the memory hole. But it looks like its too late for that.

    They waited too long, the party is now the party of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Mo Brooks, Tommy Tuberville, et al. The moderate Republicans - those few that are left - will be pushed out of the party real soon. You can see it in polling where the party itself, and people like Mitch McConnell, had their polling absolutely crater among Republicans after they refused to go along with the coup and voted to certify the election.

    71z3s32xuojm.png

    rfjzoqovc9e5.png

    Ain't no putting this genie back in the lamp.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    Disrupter
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    There are House and Senate primaries in 2022. The Republicans are too chicken shit to fight these people. There isn't going to BE a fight. I think people are still being incredibly naive about the state of the Republican party right now. They aren't going to nuke Trump because that will nuke their personal chances of not being primaried by the Q people. The Q people for all intents and purposes ARE the Republican party now. It's a dire state for the party and a dire state for the country, especially if the media doesn't take off the kid gloves and start treating these people like the crazy conspiracy theory insurrectionist people they are.

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  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Trump needs to be memory-holed. If he can't run for office, he's not going to waste a second trying to throw his weight behind anyone else who is, including his family who all think they can do this, too. We don't need the threat of him hanging around for 2024, because the man's dumb luck so far has proven he could make it that far.

    I've been speculating for years that the GOP would impeach and convict him in order to force him down the memory hole. But it looks like its too late for that.

    They waited too long, the party is now the party of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Mo Brooks, Tommy Tuberville, et al. The moderate Republicans - those few that are left - will be pushed out of the party real soon. You can see it in polling where the party itself, and people like Mitch McConnell, had their polling absolutely crater among Republicans after they refused to go along with the coup and voted to certify the election.

    71z3s32xuojm.png

    rfjzoqovc9e5.png

    Ain't no putting this genie back in the lamp.

    What does this even mean, were is this poll from and who did they ask, how big was the sample size, what was the demographics?
    /Lies, damned lies, and statistics

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    CelestialBadgermonikerthatassemblyguyCambiata
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Trump needs to be memory-holed. If he can't run for office, he's not going to waste a second trying to throw his weight behind anyone else who is, including his family who all think they can do this, too. We don't need the threat of him hanging around for 2024, because the man's dumb luck so far has proven he could make it that far.

    I've been speculating for years that the GOP would impeach and convict him in order to force him down the memory hole. But it looks like its too late for that.

    They waited too long, the party is now the party of Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, Mo Brooks, Tommy Tuberville, et al. The moderate Republicans - those few that are left - will be pushed out of the party real soon. You can see it in polling where the party itself, and people like Mitch McConnell, had their polling absolutely crater among Republicans after they refused to go along with the coup and voted to certify the election.

    71z3s32xuojm.png

    rfjzoqovc9e5.png

    Ain't no putting this genie back in the lamp.

    What I'd do in that case is vote to convict Trump and hope with his dampened presence those ratings gradually shift back without them being constantly reminded to hate the moderates. A lot can happen in two years and all that.

    monikerArdol
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    monikerArdol
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    And Trump has shown his base, which is in many ways also the Republican base, can turn out in numbers needed to win general elections. Which is why they want to ditch Trump but not his voters.

    EddyJragghenmonikerElvenshaeMild ConfusionFencingsaxMan in the Mists
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

    And he still lost. And they just lost 2 layup senate runoffs with incumbents in a red state, and only one was against a particularly strong candidate (apologies to Jon Ossoff).

    Trump turns out Republicans, but he turns out Democrats MORE. I think at this point anyone with a R by their name that isn’t drinking the kool aid understands that.

    monikerwobblyheadedbobAbsoluteZeroMillFencingsaxvalhalla130
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

    And he still lost. And they just lost 2 layup senate runoffs with incumbents in a red state, and only one was against a particularly strong candidate (apologies to Jon Ossoff).

    Trump turns out Republicans, but he turns out Democrats MORE. I think at this point anyone with a R by their name that isn’t drinking the kool aid understands that.

    That just means you need to ditch Trump while keeping his voters and then ramp up the voter suppression and gerrymandering.

    SmrtnikFencingsax
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

    And he still lost. And they just lost 2 layup senate runoffs with incumbents in a red state, and only one was against a particularly strong candidate (apologies to Jon Ossoff).

    Trump turns out Republicans, but he turns out Democrats MORE. I think at this point anyone with a R by their name that isn’t drinking the kool aid understands that.

    that's their problem. That number amounts to 10 house members (that will probably all be gone next year)

    edit: and mitt romney

    Xaquin on
    Elvenshae
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

    And he still lost. And they just lost 2 layup senate runoffs with incumbents in a red state, and only one was against a particularly strong candidate (apologies to Jon Ossoff).

    Trump turns out Republicans, but he turns out Democrats MORE. I think at this point anyone with a R by their name that isn’t drinking the kool aid understands that.

    That just means you need to ditch Trump while keeping his voters and then ramp up the voter suppression and gerrymandering.

    that's all

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Captain InertiaRhesus Positive
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    The big question for republicans though is it better to have this fight now, when people have 4 years to forget, or in a primary in 2024?

    Mitch won’t be on the ballot again for 6 years, and there won’t be a Republican presidential primary for 4 years. There’s an argument to be made for nuking Trump now and trying to ride out the fallout while no one is voting on anything.

    mitch won't be on the ballot again period

    and the problem with thinking that the gop wants to be rid of trump is that it's false

    they want trump (or someone equally as terrible).

    Donors and the establishment want someone who can win general elections. The wacko wing of the party might be ok with being the US conservative equivalent of the Corbyn labor party that gives up on actually maintaining power other than occasionally squeaking out with a bare house or senate majority, but the donors and old guard aren’t going to be happy with occasional 2 year periods of control of the house or senate and 8 years of President Harris.

    the donor class is done. they just don't know it yet. trump can go on OAN and fox for free and even then it won't matter because the bulk of the gop will vote for the R no matter what. trump got 17 million MORE votes and didn't have to lift a finger. and this was after enough fuck ups to fill 500 books.

    At some point it becomes easier to buy the democratic party than try to control the crazies. We already saw that kind of work in Flordia where dems would not support the minimum wage increase. And we know dem turnout has historically been flaky so there is plenty their money can do.

    rahkeesh2000 on
    monikerTumin
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I’ve been “keeping up” with news entirely via app alerts for a couple of days because of work, and things seem great. They are, aren’t they?

    smCQ5WE.jpg
    Captain Inertia
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I’ve been “keeping up” with news entirely via app alerts for a couple of days because of work, and things seem great. They are, aren’t they?

    .... sure

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I’ve been “keeping up” with news entirely via app alerts for a couple of days because of work, and things seem great. They are, aren’t they?

    Depending on where your baseline cynicism rests.

    JragghenBlackDragon480ArdolMan in the MistsJaysonFour
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    If the Republicans want to get rid of Trump, now is their best chance. Their next shot will come when he's dead.

    But that is if the Republicans want to get rid of him…

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    MarathonElvenshaejmcdonaldmonikerShadowfireDisrupterMan in the Mists
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Nonbinary (they/them)Registered User regular
    If the Republicans want to get rid of Trump, now is their best chance. Their next shot will come when he's dead.

    But that is if the Republicans want to get rid of him…

    Most likely scenario is they themselves don't know if they really want to be rid of him.

    Keeping Trump around drives turn-out, but those that come out in droves to support him are the most unstable nutters around who are now at the party's throat for perceived slights.

    Either they keep Trump around to try and wrest control back from the nutjobs who already swear more loyalty to Trump than the GOP, or they give Trump the boot and fear for their literal lives at thw hands of his adoring horde.


    They made this bed and most definitely do not want to sleep in it.

    rahkeesh2000thatassemblyguyElvenshaeshrykeArdolmonikerMild ConfusionGiantGeek2020Man in the MistsJaysonFour
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    American governance was not designed for a two-party system.

    And yet a two-party system was inevitable the way American governance was designed.

    And also was a two party system immediately.

    Political parties happen because organization is the force multiplier. Trying to prevent political parties is like trying to prevent the rain.

    The cause of two party system though (as opposed to a three, four, or twelve party system) is caused entirely by the math of FPTP. There are several systems we could switch to that would allow multiple parties to thrive instead of just two. Two parties only causes a whole variety of things to suck.

    No, it’s not. The two party system is caused by the math of 50%+1 to pass a bill. Proportional parliaments still have two parties, they just form after voting. And FPTP legislatures still have “multiple parties” they just call themselves caucuses and develop after voting.

    Kind of but not really? Here in Norway we have had mostly minority governments since the War, who have sought approval from Pariliament on a case-by-case basis when it comes to passing laws/budgets. Plus, I only have to vote once. If the Labour Party are dicks I just vote Socialist Leftist Party (real name!) or any of the 3 other left-ish parties on election day. In the US, I'd have to register as a party member, engage in the party selection process, vote in the primary, and then vote in the general to even be allowed to have any real choice.

    Many states don't have party registration, or allow independents to vote in whichever primary they like (although only one for any individual office). I don't even know what you mean by 'party selection process'. It is true that voting in the primary is the best way to maximize your influence in the process, because parties don't simply provide lists of which candidates they're nominating - the voters determine who the candidates are.

    Preachermoniker
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Republicans don't want to get rid of Trump. 95% of them in the House voted to keep him, and it's unclear if the other 5% voted to get rid of him or were scared of losing their corporate donations. Mitch and the Senate GOP are protecting him. Pence - days after Trump tried to have him killed - came out swinging for Trump. State-government Republican elected officials are refusing to vote to condemn the riot. The Arizona GOP voted to censure its members that oppose Trump or condemn the riot. GOP voters overwhelmingly support him and the riot.

    The thing you need to understand is that the GOP has been hemorrhaging moderates for decades. Some started peeling off as WBush's incompetence and Cheney's corruption came to light. Others when Palin became the VP nominee and racism the go-to response to Obama. Others in response to the Freedom Caucus. A lot ran when Trump became the nominee, and some of those who remained left in the subsequent four-year-long trainwreak. What remains in the GOP are the fanatics who proudly wear their MAGA hats, and the grifters who actually profit from the chaos the GOP is causing. Neither group is going to turn on Trump, because it is either in their personal belief or their personal interest that Trumpism continues.

    There is no GOP/Trump split. There is only Trump's GOP.

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Republicans don't want to get rid of Trump. 95% of them in the House voted to keep him, and it's unclear if the other 5% voted to get rid of him or were scared of losing their corporate donations. Mitch and the Senate GOP are protecting him. Pence - days after Trump tried to have him killed - came out swinging for Trump. State-government Republican elected officials are refusing to vote to condemn the riot. The Arizona GOP voted to censure its members that oppose Trump or condemn the riot. GOP voters overwhelmingly support him and the riot.

    The thing you need to understand is that the GOP has been hemorrhaging moderates for decades. Some started peeling off as WBush's incompetence and Cheney's corruption came to light. Others when Palin became the VP nominee and racism the go-to response to Obama. Others in response to the Freedom Caucus. A lot ran when Trump became the nominee, and some of those who remained left in the subsequent four-year-long trainwreak. What remains in the GOP are the fanatics who proudly wear their MAGA hats, and the grifters who actually profit from the chaos the GOP is causing. Neither group is going to turn on Trump, because it is either in their personal belief or their personal interest that Trumpism continues.

    There is no GOP/Trump split. There is only Trump's GOP.

    it's been a weird two decades

    The Tea Party, Sarah Palin

    Currently between signatures!
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Republicans don't want to get rid of Trump. 95% of them in the House voted to keep him, and it's unclear if the other 5% voted to get rid of him or were scared of losing their corporate donations. Mitch and the Senate GOP are protecting him. Pence - days after Trump tried to have him killed - came out swinging for Trump. State-government Republican elected officials are refusing to vote to condemn the riot. The Arizona GOP voted to censure its members that oppose Trump or condemn the riot. GOP voters overwhelmingly support him and the riot.

    The thing you need to understand is that the GOP has been hemorrhaging moderates for decades. Some started peeling off as WBush's incompetence and Cheney's corruption came to light. Others when Palin became the VP nominee and racism the go-to response to Obama. Others in response to the Freedom Caucus. A lot ran when Trump became the nominee, and some of those who remained left in the subsequent four-year-long trainwreak. What remains in the GOP are the fanatics who proudly wear their MAGA hats, and the grifters who actually profit from the chaos the GOP is causing. Neither group is going to turn on Trump, because it is either in their personal belief or their personal interest that Trumpism continues.

    There is no GOP/Trump split. There is only Trump's GOP.

    it's been a weird two decades

    The Tea Party, Sarah Palin

    Remember when losing the 2008 election meant the GOP would realize that Palin and her ilk had gone too far right and moderates would retake the party?

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