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[WandaVision] Yakety Yak! Open Spoilers!
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Honestly after that line I was expecting a line like "they do know, because they felt it, and they're still right to hate me. "
These are human stories written by humans for humans, so no matter what fantastical elements are added, it still sprung forth from a human's imagination and therefore is quantifiable by a human mind.
Empathy and imagination are important tool to understanding other people and they can be applied here.
Why not? That's not an alien thought at all. It's not asking you to contemplate the mind of Cthulu, just imagine the same loss we all suffer, add in the power to stop it, and tie that power to a horrible crime to make it a tough call. It's the trolley problem with personal stakes.
To me it’s the difference between being able to conceptualize something vs. truly being able to experience it.
I can picture myself having powers like Wanda, but in reality it would be one of those situations where you find out you underestimated it because until you actually have that power you can’t truly understand what it means.
Nobody ever knows 100% what is like to be somebody else, but if you can't get a pretty good grasp on how this would feel, I don't think you'd be able to enjoy the show. I think it's fair to say that you never know if you'd have the willpower to give up what she gave up, but the situation isn't an unknowable puzzle. It's pretty straight forward.
Well I maintain that it’s basically impossible to truly grasp how it would feel, and yet I enjoyed the show immensely.
The original argument is that this was a story created by human minds, and so the human mind should be quantifiable by a human mind.
Infinity is also a concept created by human minds and the concept can be understood by humans, but a human mind could not fully contemplate infinity.
The series ends with her admitting she doesn't have control of her powers and vowing to learn. She can't just bring her family back because she's still not certain how she did it, and that's not a spell you want to fuck up on.
Luckily she found a handy-dandy guidebook from her from Agnes. I'm sure that will help!
I don't think it's necessarily easier. Her creations could only exist within the confine of her altered reality bubble. I imagine it a bit like a holodeck on star trek. It's one thing to create characters out of nothing on the holodeck. Making that same fake character be able to go anywhere in the world/universe completely independently is a different challenge.
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Philosophical arguments aside, Infinity exists without or without humans minds to observe the concept.
Wanda, however, is entirely a fictional. Every move and decision she makes is in fact made by normal-ass everyday real world human beings. Her motivations and thought processes are knowable because they ARE known; by the people who created the show.
You can create something you don't fully understand yourself.
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Really, at the end of the day you don't need to understand what you're doing to do it. You can drive a car without understanding how it works. You can build a working engine without understanding everything about the fundamental forces in play or the structure of the molecules and subatomic particles. You can pick up a stick and destroy an anthill without needing to know anything about sticks or ants.
What we're talking about is a matter of magnitude. But the underlying discussion can be had about any human act.
I disagree, the scenario isn’t analogous to any human act. Wanda is a being with potentially unlimited power, there’s no equivalent scenario to compare her actions to.
Edit: let me be clear. I’m talking about the particular scenario where Wanda recreates Vision, also creates two children, and then let’s them essentially die to restore the town. I want to say I know I would do the right thing if I were in the same position, but it would be very difficult.
We aren't discussing how she did anything, but why. You don't need to understand a car to drive it, but you need to know why you are driving it and where you are heading. The power level is irrelevant. It's an emotional understanding of the situation Wanda is in. If you could save a loved one by taking slaves, what would that look like? It isn't complex.
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Tossing an OP together now
Absolutely.
Only problem, of course, is that Wanda has left more frogs than a swamp in her wake.
I would like to think I'd make the right choice but not before making a clone of myself. For.. research purposes.
Most people drink too much, or act out sexually, maybe get into a fist fight or fuck up some property. When it rises to crimes against humanity, it's time to take off the understanding hat and put on the what the fuck are we going to do about this travesty hat.
Unfortunately, the amount of power you have has absolutely no relationship with your emotional stability. Wanting something to be true doesn't magically make it true. And if you had the power to magically make things true then you'd fuck it up. A lot.
The wrinkle here is that in Wanda’s case, what can you do?
She’s powerful on a level where the rules only apply if she wants. With full control of her power she could travel anywhere, do pretty much anything, control people’s minds, and turn your bullets into butterflies if you try to kill her.
I don't get out of holding a town hostage for 2 weeks with a network of bombs cause I was upset my wife died. Why is this different?
Before or after the mental breakdown
Ope new thread folsk
And I'd expect to be reviled for it, and I'd give a side eye to anybody making excuses for me when I've left a town full of victims in my wake that need your empathy more than I do.
I'm really confused as to what you want here. The show clearly didn't make Wanda out to be some kind of hero. It also didn't turn her into a supervillain that's on the run. There's a middle ground that they tried to thread, and maybe they skewed too far on one end for your tastes. But you're arguing as though they made it look like Wanda was right and she did everything right and she's not in any trouble at all, when that's very much not the case given she literally ran away and went into hiding precisely because of the shitty things she did.
If they replaced the, "They'll never know what you gave up!" scene with "You are under arrest for kidnapping, assault, and terrorism!" and then had Wanda fly away, would that be good enough? Or is there something more you're wanting here?
I don't think Wanda deserves a pass for anything. She did horrible, unforgivable things in the midst of her trauma. She will certainly be an antagonist of some kind moving forward (at least to start), and need some kind of redemption arc to get on the side of good again
But I personally think a lot of your arguments come back to "well, if it was me, I'd just rationally work my way through the mental illness, immediately." And I don't know if you've ever known a person with any mental illness? But that is very much not how it works.
It sometimes takes months, years, even decades for people to realize they have done wrong, or gaslit others (or themselves), or hurt others possibly unknowingly, or convenentily written their own reality to other's expense. A lot of them never get there, to the realization they are damaged, or the help they need. Your "they should just pull up their mental bootstraps harder, like I would" feels dismissive to what mental illness even means, or how it functions for actual people