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Cyberpunk 2077 | Enemies, like dogs, cannot look up

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  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    CDPR bit much more than they could chew. They do not have the resources or the experience to build something as big as they hoped to. Rockstar can because they have been doing it for decades, they know how to assign resources adequately so that they can achieve that "RDR2 level of polish" that CDPR thought they could do.

    Making a game with that scope is not easy, even if you have millions in funds. Crowbcat's video illustrates it very well.

    And they will never address issues besides bugs, they are currently being sued and admitting to any of that is not going to help their case. I honestly doubt they'll be able to fix the core gameplay issues the game suffers from, even in 2 years from now, because this whole thing just screams of very bad resource management, they need to rewrite a lot of stuff from the ground up.

    Edit: And all that Cyberpunk merch at the end of the video, ugh.

    Satsumomo on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Even Rockstar, for RDR2, didn't promise half of what CDPR said was going into C2077.

    I'm saying, I kind of wish they just reskinned Witcher 3 in a Cyberpunk 2020 world instead of trying to reinvent every wheel they could get their hands on. Make it pretty, use that frankly incredible facial animation tech, make the writing and characters good, and I won't give a shit you didn't innovate every single bit of the game.

    Just don't fucking Molyneux me.

    jungleroomx on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    A lot of the stuff feels like stuff they felt obligated to have for little reason. I don't think people would care if you couldn't kill random civilians and get the cops after you by doing that because the easy justification is your character has no reason to do that and the cops generally won't care enough about your other shit like pointing guns at people because that is the sort of place Night City is.

    Couscous on
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Even Rockstar, for RDR2, didn't promise half of what CDPR said was going into C2077.

    I'm saying, I kind of wish they just reskinned Witcher 3 in a Cyberpunk 2020 world instead of trying to reinvent every wheel they could get their hands on. Make it pretty, use that frankly incredible facial animation tech, make the writing and characters good, and I won't give a shit you didn't innovate every single bit of the game.

    Just don't fucking Molyneux me.

    I am all for V responding to their fixers with "Hrrrm" or "*sigh* Fine."

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Even Rockstar, for RDR2, didn't promise half of what CDPR said was going into C2077.

    I'm saying, I kind of wish they just reskinned Witcher 3 in a Cyberpunk 2020 world instead of trying to reinvent every wheel they could get their hands on. Make it pretty, use that frankly incredible facial animation tech, make the writing and characters good, and I won't give a shit you didn't innovate every single bit of the game.

    Just don't fucking Molyneux me.

    I am all for V responding to their fixers with "Hrrrm" or "*sigh* Fine."

    I really was hoping V would say "WHODA THUNK" which is always my favorite Geralt line.

    It was Johnny who said it, so close enough.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Judy was really reminding me of somebody and I couldn't place it for the longest time. Then I finished her personal quest and it all clicked into place at once. She's a Latinx version of Lori Petty in Point Break.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    This level of shitstorm and video evidence doesn't come from nowhere.

    I also had a relatively bug-free experience, and in fact really enjoyed myself. Looking forward to another playthrough in a year or so after patches and mods.

    But this just makes me one of the lucky ones. My experience is the outlier.

    I don't think it is. Just looking in the forum here, reddit, and other places people talked about the game and not the news around the game... I think the vast majority of people who got this game on PC or a new console played it, liked it or didn't, experienced a few bugs here and there, and moved on to the next game.

    These problems live in the smallest of percentages most of the time; there are a couple of things that exacerbate this issue.

    1. Base consoles had a rough fucking go of it and the game probably never should have released on them. It descoped what the game could do, and it is going to be a major focus of CDPR's 2021 trying to make it right, which sucks because by the end of 2021 there will be enough PS5, Series X, and PC gamers with rigs good enough that the "base console" release will not have netted them meaningful cash in the long term. This was a classic case of short term profits causing long term harm.
    2. Most people only post massively positive or massively negative reviews/comments on the interbutts. Yes, there are more bugs than your average bear, even on PS5, Series X and PC. It's not "unplayable" for the majority of those folks, but it is noticeable by most at some point in a 50+ hour playthrough (random T pose or crash to desktop), and it is downright bad / unplayable for a small %. But, people don't go on the internet to say "I played the game, it was fine" nearly as much as they go on the internet to say "main questline broke" or "lol V's penis escaped his pants" or "best game evar!!!1!" and let's be honest, in its current state, not a lot of people are saying the latter. And its easy to get thousands of negative stories or issues when there are 13 million+ copies in the wild.

    It's also worth pointing out that the game had an install disc that took 90 minutes to install and then a comparable day one patch; shit took so long to download and install that my PS4 powered down.

    I think I had a reasonable expectation that the game wouldn't crash if I ran for a kilometer because it couldn't handle rendering the draw distance NPCs and geometry.

    Etiowsa
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Sony's delist had about 10% to do with the game being exceptionally awful and 90% with CDPR telling people to go refund the game.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I think CDPR "fixing" Cyberpunk will have more to do with whatever game they have planned next more than anything.

    They already profited and most people aren't returning the game(cause in general most gamers don't return games). But they will more than likely be met with heavy cynicism for their next project.

    And while them fixing CP won't get rid of that cynicism it will be at least an act of good faith.

    Dragkonias on
  • CorsiniCorsini Registered User regular
    I returned the game. I had gotten so hyped about a game where I could pick up objects reliably, and when Cyberpunk couldn't deliver I returned it. Sometimes I worry my standards are unrealistic.

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  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Corsini wrote: »
    I returned the game. I had gotten so hyped about a game where I could pick up objects reliably, and when Cyberpunk couldn't deliver I returned it. Sometimes I worry my standards are unrealistic.

    You should have just paid ~$10 for Deus Ex GOTY. You can pick everything up in that game!

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I spent way too long trying to pick up junk the game wouldn't let me pick up

    Couscous on
    Gaddez
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I spent way too long trying to pick up junk the game wouldn't let me pick up

    Conversely, I wish the game didn't bother letting you pick up what little you can. It's weird to have all this environmental gribble around, and only being able to interact (with annoying HUD indication): packs of cards, smokes, and useless vinyl tapes (with the same cover, and can't play them). It's more immersion-breaking than just not having them.

    AistanZilla360Steel Angel
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I think CDPR "fixing" Cyberpunk will have more to do with whatever game they have planned next more than anything.

    They already profited and most people aren't returning the game(cause in general most gamers don't return games). But they will more than likely be met with heavy cynicism for their next project.

    And while them fixing CP won't get rid of that cynicism it will be at least an act of good faith.

    If nothing else I feel like Cyberpunk is an incredible example in burning good will. After W3 CDPR was basically the chosen one, and then they pull the same kind of maneuver that everyone trashes on faceless megacorps like EA and Ubisoft for.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    pls think about this

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  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    You monster. That was beautiful. Also beautiful was that 40 min long video that went through all the stuff they promised for the game and what we actually ended up with. They talked a real big game, even when they had o know what they were actually capable of.

    Zilla360
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I spent way too long trying to pick up junk the game wouldn't let me pick up

    Conversely, I wish the game didn't bother letting you pick up what little you can. It's weird to have all this environmental gribble around, and only being able to interact (with annoying HUD indication): packs of cards, smokes, and useless vinyl tapes (with the same cover, and can't play them). It's more immersion-breaking than just not having them.

    but can you smoke 10 packs of cigarettes and die of instant lung cancer? how's that for realism??

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    You monster. That was beautiful. Also beautiful was that 40 min long video that went through all the stuff they promised for the game and what we actually ended up with. They talked a real big game, even when they had o know what they were actually capable of.

    I'm actually watching that video.

    While I do feel its exaggerated a bit (some of the footage is obviously pre-day 1 patch...naw...they actually did just straight up lie about some stuff.

    Like we're talking bullshot territory even months before release.

    I can see why some folks were really upset.

    Zilla360Etiowsa
  • NineNine Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I think CDPR "fixing" Cyberpunk will have more to do with whatever game they have planned next more than anything.

    They already profited and most people aren't returning the game(cause in general most gamers don't return games). But they will more than likely be met with heavy cynicism for their next project.

    And while them fixing CP won't get rid of that cynicism it will be at least an act of good faith.

    If nothing else I feel like Cyberpunk is an incredible example in burning good will. After W3 CDPR was basically the chosen one, and then they pull the same kind of maneuver that everyone trashes on faceless megacorps like EA and Ubisoft for.

    In my mind, CDPR's biggest problem is that they themselves believed this. I think it comes through very clearly in the Bloomberg reporting that they started believing their own hype (at least the management did). Happens to a lot of creators, some of them recover from it and some don't.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    So I didn't follow this at all, other than I really liked the witcher 3 and they were making another game and I played the tabletop that inspired it once, so I was pretty excited.

    But I avoided story, gameplay demos, all of it. Saw a trailer or two.

    Going in blind, I experienced a slightly buggy but overall great game, that I feel will reach Witcher 3 levels as they patch and DLC it.

    Had I paid attention to the hype CDPR seems wholly responsible for generating, I would have been much more angry.

    It's amazing, really; had they just not with all the false promises, and made a choice in 2019 to not release it on the PS4 or Xbox One, this might have been on some GOTY lists despite some warts.

    Now, its going to win the hottest mess award, easily.

    Good job, CDPR.

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I think even without any hype, there are enough glaring issues (the zillion bugs, in general, garbage AI, shit driving, etc) that it might be in the running for hottest mess awards.

    Edit: And I really enjoyed the game, but it's so blatantly unfinished.

    BionicPenguin on
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  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Same here, I avoided all trailers and info, I wanted to discover everything on my own but I didn't make it past 3 hours because of how unfinished and shallow it feels. Note that I'm an avid gamer, and I played a lot of The Division 1 & 2, both games have a pretty deep skill system so going into Cyberpunk and seeing just how simple it is there just started to raise alarms for me. And the combat also leaves a lot to be desired.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    I also avoided all previews and trailers and I was still disappointed. I liked the game well enough to finish it in spite of it constantly crashing.... But man it was such a missed opportunity. Between this and Valhalla I feel like 2020 was a huge disappointment for big releases.

    BionicPenguin
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I didn’t get any bugs my first time through so like... I thought it was pretty good. I had issues with the way the world was constructed and how doing things out of order (too many side quests) could break the world construction more but that was about it

    Edit: there were also some issues with clearly incomplete story beats, weapons, and the rail shooter sections were fucking shit but not enough for a downgrade past good

    Goumindong on
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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    So I didn't follow this at all, other than I really liked the witcher 3 and they were making another game and I played the tabletop that inspired it once, so I was pretty excited.

    But I avoided story, gameplay demos, all of it. Saw a trailer or two.

    Going in blind, I experienced a slightly buggy but overall great game, that I feel will reach Witcher 3 levels as they patch and DLC it.

    Had I paid attention to the hype CDPR seems wholly responsible for generating, I would have been much more angry.

    It's amazing, really; had they just not with all the false promises, and made a choice in 2019 to not release it on the PS4 or Xbox One, this might have been on some GOTY lists despite some warts.

    Now, its going to win the hottest mess award, easily.

    Good job, CDPR.

    Granted I know me and other folks even in this thread who were following the game pretty closely were still basically just expecting what you were.

    There are lots of posts about just that. That some of it was clearly marketing junk, some of it was just completely exaggerated nonsense that obviously wasn't a good representation and also the piles of small tidbits that people took and ran with to make completely impossible claims.

    CDPR definitely should have nipped more of that in the bud and not just run wild with it.

    Lots of games do that to varying extents but (just like the bugs) this certainly went a step further than it should have.

    If you are regularly playing games and have been for a long time and been part of the community there's a lot of stuff that you know to expect and not know what actually makes sense as being possible with certain types of games.

    Not saying this as a defense, it's obviously not.

    But just that it is/was very possible to have been following the game closely and not been let down by over promises. The amount of posts wherein people said "yea ... maybe temper your expectations a bit there. Everything we've actually seen and know about the game suggests Witcher 3 with a cyberpunk paint job and some Deus Ex for good measure(and expect the bugs!)"

    And what we got was... exactly that. But with way more bugs than their should have been. That part was definitely too big of an issue on consoles.

    Fencingsax
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Considering the PS4 was likely the largest install base for sales, there's no way they could skip the last gen. Sounds like they had a few options but instead chose to lie. Imo they could have;

    1) delayed again, but for 9+ months, at the very least the console version

    2) release in Early Access. Tell people it's not done. Many games have done this and still sold like gangbusters, with the caveat that people knew going in it wasn't gonna be perfect. This would be my choice.

    3) hire an outside studio to handle the console versions. Clearly they overestimated their ability to pare the game down to meet those specs. They probably straight up needed two different versions of the game to get this done. This would have been much more expensive but probably for best results on old gen, this would be the way to go.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Delay for console versions + early access for PC only would have saved their whole holiday in terms of their reputation and getting in trouble with everyone. There wouldn't be class action lawsuits, they wouldn't have pissed off Sony, etc. The main problems with this route would have been console people having the plot ruined and whatever deals were involved with that Xbox bundle.

    schuss
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    syndalis wrote: »
    So I didn't follow this at all, other than I really liked the witcher 3 and they were making another game and I played the tabletop that inspired it once, so I was pretty excited.

    But I avoided story, gameplay demos, all of it. Saw a trailer or two.

    Going in blind, I experienced a slightly buggy but overall great game, that I feel will reach Witcher 3 levels as they patch and DLC it.

    Had I paid attention to the hype CDPR seems wholly responsible for generating, I would have been much more angry.

    It's amazing, really; had they just not with all the false promises, and made a choice in 2019 to not release it on the PS4 or Xbox One, this might have been on some GOTY lists despite some warts.

    Now, its going to win the hottest mess award, easily.

    Good job, CDPR.

    Granted I know me and other folks even in this thread who were following the game pretty closely were still basically just expecting what you were.

    There are lots of posts about just that. That some of it was clearly marketing junk, some of it was just completely exaggerated nonsense that obviously wasn't a good representation and also the piles of small tidbits that people took and ran with to make completely impossible claims.

    CDPR definitely should have nipped more of that in the bud and not just run wild with it.

    Lots of games do that to varying extents but (just like the bugs) this certainly went a step further than it should have.

    If you are regularly playing games and have been for a long time and been part of the community there's a lot of stuff that you know to expect and not know what actually makes sense as being possible with certain types of games.

    Not saying this as a defense, it's obviously not.

    But just that it is/was very possible to have been following the game closely and not been let down by over promises. The amount of posts wherein people said "yea ... maybe temper your expectations a bit there. Everything we've actually seen and know about the game suggests Witcher 3 with a cyberpunk paint job and some Deus Ex for good measure(and expect the bugs!)"

    And what we got was... exactly that. But with way more bugs than their should have been. That part was definitely too big of an issue on consoles.

    I'm gonna be honest...while yeah there is obvious some tempering of expectations some of that stuff was blatantly false advertising.

    Like Peter Molyneux levels.

    And some of it is you know...actually finished areas and multiple apartments to buy.

    Like stuff other games already have. None of that is pie in the sky.

    Dragkonias on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Same here, I avoided all trailers and info, I wanted to discover everything on my own but I didn't make it past 3 hours because of how unfinished and shallow it feels. Note that I'm an avid gamer, and I played a lot of The Division 1 & 2, both games have a pretty deep skill system so going into Cyberpunk and seeing just how simple it is there just started to raise alarms for me. And the combat also leaves a lot to be desired.

    I really didn't have an issue with the shallow skill system in C2077 because every game that isn't Path of Exile has the same-feeling shallow ass skill system, including the Division games: Click a thing, get that thing, a little bit of synergy with items, end of system. It's just kind of a thing I expect with AAA games and haven't been let down since.

    It's doesn't dampen my enjoyment of them, since the meat lies elsewhere. But yeah, there's definitely degrees with this.

    jungleroomx on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's not a "weapon art", it's an ANIMATION Registered User regular
    Considering the PS4 was likely the largest install base for sales, there's no way they could skip the last gen. Sounds like they had a few options but instead chose to lie. Imo they could have;

    1) delayed again, but for 9+ months, at the very least the console version

    2) release in Early Access. Tell people it's not done. Many games have done this and still sold like gangbusters, with the caveat that people knew going in it wasn't gonna be perfect. This would be my choice.

    3) hire an outside studio to handle the console versions. Clearly they overestimated their ability to pare the game down to meet those specs. They probably straight up needed two different versions of the game to get this done. This would have been much more expensive but probably for best results on old gen, this would be the way to go.

    They absolutely could have.

    And by the look of things, they absolutely should have.

    Should've also kept the game in development for at least a year, maybe 2, and the install base would've taken care of itself.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    So I didn't follow this at all, other than I really liked the witcher 3 and they were making another game and I played the tabletop that inspired it once, so I was pretty excited.

    But I avoided story, gameplay demos, all of it. Saw a trailer or two.

    Going in blind, I experienced a slightly buggy but overall great game, that I feel will reach Witcher 3 levels as they patch and DLC it.

    Had I paid attention to the hype CDPR seems wholly responsible for generating, I would have been much more angry.

    It's amazing, really; had they just not with all the false promises, and made a choice in 2019 to not release it on the PS4 or Xbox One, this might have been on some GOTY lists despite some warts.

    Now, its going to win the hottest mess award, easily.

    Good job, CDPR.

    Granted I know me and other folks even in this thread who were following the game pretty closely were still basically just expecting what you were.

    There are lots of posts about just that. That some of it was clearly marketing junk, some of it was just completely exaggerated nonsense that obviously wasn't a good representation and also the piles of small tidbits that people took and ran with to make completely impossible claims.

    CDPR definitely should have nipped more of that in the bud and not just run wild with it.

    Lots of games do that to varying extents but (just like the bugs) this certainly went a step further than it should have.

    If you are regularly playing games and have been for a long time and been part of the community there's a lot of stuff that you know to expect and not know what actually makes sense as being possible with certain types of games.

    Not saying this as a defense, it's obviously not.

    But just that it is/was very possible to have been following the game closely and not been let down by over promises. The amount of posts wherein people said "yea ... maybe temper your expectations a bit there. Everything we've actually seen and know about the game suggests Witcher 3 with a cyberpunk paint job and some Deus Ex for good measure(and expect the bugs!)"

    And what we got was... exactly that. But with way more bugs than their should have been. That part was definitely too big of an issue on consoles.

    I'm gonna be honest...while yeah there is obvious some tempering of expectations some of that stuff was blatantly false advertising.

    Like Peter Molyneux levels.

    And some of it is you know...actually finished areas and multiple apartments to buy.

    Like stuff other games already have. None of that is pie in the sky.

    I'm not sure that mutliple apartments is the best example, since that (along with customizing it) was one of the things they explicitly walked back on

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I mean okay...but what about the video in November showing PS4 gameplay that obviously wasn't PS4?

    Like...that is quite shady and I feel like if we were talking about EA or Activision we wouldn't even be arguing about that.

    PhillishereGaddez
  • DuriniaDurinia Evolved from Space Potatoes Registered User regular
    My bar for overpromising is Chris Roberts, so I think actually shipping a disc for this game is pretty solid progress. :P

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Going even further, they dropped a vehicle trailer that mislead people into thinking car tuning and color customization was still in a mere 2 months before launch, it's still up on IGN

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Going even further, they dropped a vehicle trailer that mislead people into thinking car tuning and color customization was still in a mere 2 months before launch, it's still up on IGN

    That was another thing they explicitly said was cut, months before the trailer even

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    When? Where? This is why I'm saying just release in early access. I shouldn't have to tune into random developer interviews to find out what things didn't make the cut.

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  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    I know this was discussed in the last thread but I wonder if they will do dlc with some gang storylines . A lot of potential there I think could also have one where you are a rookie fixer and trying to establish yourself . I know people want more V but his storyline is pretty much done .

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    I know this was discussed in the last thread but I wonder if they will do dlc with some gang storylines . A lot of potential there I think could also have one where you are a rookie fixer and trying to establish yourself . I know people want more V but his storyline is pretty much done .

    i would imagine there is a LOT of 50% developed - scripted but not properly qaed, possibly half of va done, most assets in but rough - content of that kind. other obvious candidates are characters like meredith stout who im sure has a huge amount of va work and plot that simply... never made it in

    but on the other hand that means the dlc is likely to have quite a lot of content in it relative to ordinary dlc

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Interestingly, people found out Male V has fully voiced dialogue options for romancing Judy in the game's files. There's already mods that adds it back in.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    It isn't irregular for companies to have characters voice stuff they may not use so that might not be cut as much as throwaway.

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