So is the current plan with the senate still "whoopsiedoodles, McConnell remains the majority leader in any way that matters, including control of all of the committees," or are there actually options to avoid that scenario?
They seem to believe a deal will end up being made.
There should not be a deal made for this. This is disgusting and infuriating.
I'm angry in a way that I thought I wasn't capable of being anymore, and even that anger is an exasperated sigh at this point.
At this point I think you just have to start holding anti-Sinema and anti-Manchin protests in your home states. Protests and anger seem much more effective than hoping they'll decide to be the Far Left Boogeyman out of the kindness of their hearts.
What would that do in states that don't vote for either of them? Manchin and Sinema are doing what they think will keep them elected, unless you can show you can primary them with someone who can then get elected in that state you're just saying "I'd rather this be a republican."
The same thing national protests do for anything - get the protesters airtime to state their grievances. Senators who want to keep their seats aren't going to be able ignore a nation accusing them of refusing to govern as it lets their opponents do all the talking - they'll have to respond and open a dialogue. And open dialogue is gonna be a lot better than Dems shrugging their shoulders mouthing "What can we do?"
Plus maybe if people get fired up over it, it may actually invigorate people to primary these Senators if they refuse to act. But you can't just wait for Arizona or West Virginia residents to raise a ruckus, it has to be all of us to get any traction
Any Democrat that tries to block filibuster reform shouldnt get a moment's peace or calm for the remainder of their time in office. They can at least share in our misery.
+11
TetraNitroCubaneNot Angry...Just VERY Disappointed...Registered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The trick, says Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, will be lowering the expectations of an impatient Democratic base that is eager to press the party’s slim advantage by forcing votes on issues like Medicare for All or by making structural changes that could secure the party’s power. Booker says there aren’t enough votes to pass statehood for Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico right now, nor for expanding the Supreme Court. He’s taking his own lesson from the early Obama years.
“I applaud Obama for doing health care and saving the economy, but a lot of Americans felt that that was them losing their autonomy over their health care and a big Wall Street bailout. Then we got demolished in the midterms,” Booker told me. “This is a chance for the Biden administration to do the kind of things that immediately make a difference in people’s lives.”
So, they are burning reconciliation on the stimulus bill and that's it.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
The Senate is a broken anti-democratic institution, and Sinema and Manchin are the face of that right now. We should be protesting this just as hard as all of Trump's anti-democratic bullshit as it affects all of us
+3
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
The trick, says Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, will be lowering the expectations of an impatient Democratic base that is eager to press the party’s slim advantage by forcing votes on issues like Medicare for All or by making structural changes that could secure the party’s power. Booker says there aren’t enough votes to pass statehood for Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico right now, nor for expanding the Supreme Court. He’s taking his own lesson from the early Obama years.
“I applaud Obama for doing health care and saving the economy, but a lot of Americans felt that that was them losing their autonomy over their health care and a big Wall Street bailout. Then we got demolished in the midterms,” Booker told me. “This is a chance for the Biden administration to do the kind of things that immediately make a difference in people’s lives.”
So, they are burning reconciliation on the stimulus bill and that's it.
Fuck me, they are the most timid, useless assholes imaginable, and they can't even see that it's not going to fucking work.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
+16
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I don't get it. Why would he want the filibuster to continue?
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
0
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
+3
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
The trick, says Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, will be lowering the expectations of an impatient Democratic base that is eager to press the party’s slim advantage by forcing votes on issues like Medicare for All or by making structural changes that could secure the party’s power. Booker says there aren’t enough votes to pass statehood for Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico right now, nor for expanding the Supreme Court. He’s taking his own lesson from the early Obama years.
“I applaud Obama for doing health care and saving the economy, but a lot of Americans felt that that was them losing their autonomy over their health care and a big Wall Street bailout. Then we got demolished in the midterms,” Booker told me. “This is a chance for the Biden administration to do the kind of things that immediately make a difference in people’s lives.”
So, they are burning reconciliation on the stimulus bill and that's it.
Theoretically they have 2 reconcilliations, since last years wasn't used
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
+8
TetraNitroCubaneNot Angry...Just VERY Disappointed...Registered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
Remember: When shit burns to the ground, the GOP benefits.
They literally don't give a shit that laws weren't passed. That's red meat for their base. They like that they didn't do anything.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Every bill is still going to come up for a vote, and Republicans won't have McConnell to take the bullet for them to prevent them from having to take deeply unpopular positions. I doubt very many will be able to peel off 10 of them, but they're pretty much ALL going to have to take the position of being obstructionists now, rather than just one safe one in some other state.
+3
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
+12
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
The trick, says Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, will be lowering the expectations of an impatient Democratic base that is eager to press the party’s slim advantage by forcing votes on issues like Medicare for All or by making structural changes that could secure the party’s power. Booker says there aren’t enough votes to pass statehood for Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico right now, nor for expanding the Supreme Court. He’s taking his own lesson from the early Obama years.
“I applaud Obama for doing health care and saving the economy, but a lot of Americans felt that that was them losing their autonomy over their health care and a big Wall Street bailout. Then we got demolished in the midterms,” Booker told me. “This is a chance for the Biden administration to do the kind of things that immediately make a difference in people’s lives.”
So, they are burning reconciliation on the stimulus bill and that's it.
"What we need to do, is not use the majority we were elected to office to use to accomplish the things our base wants us to do. Because that will surely help us win next time."
Every bill is still going to come up for a vote, and Republicans won't have McConnell to take the bullet for them to prevent them from having to take deeply unpopular positions. I doubt very many will be able to peel off 10 of them, but they're pretty much ALL going to have to take the position of being obstructionists now, rather than just one safe one in some other state.
Their base doesn't care and, despite what they might say, a lot of Americans in general don't care, so this doesn't even come close to making up the loss of getting anything done
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
+6
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
They can Majority Rule change any aspect of the filibuster without 'eliminating' it. Manchin is right there being quoted he won't even do that even if it means Democrats don't ever get committee control.
And Preacher you're treating GOP and Democratic legislation goals as the same. They're not. The GOP wants less laws, and less functional government, which aside from killing the ACA outright they had plenty of levers in the courts and the executive to execute. Democrats are supposed to want the opposite, and actually legislating is our best recourse
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They could have given way more money to the rich if they could have passed more bills. Imagine how much deregulation they could have gotten up to.
But they couldn't. So they depended on Executive Orders, which Biden is now undoing. In the same way Obama relied on EOs that Trump undid.
+1
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
They didn't after they failed on the Obamcare repeal, but Trump's wall also failed to get any traction and that was something the president was gung ho about. Like the GOP has a shitty awful agenda, and they didn't get everythign they wanted when they were in power and again that's a fact, Obama when he had a majority actually passed legislation including Obamacare, the GOP didn't, so we should be arguing facts.
I don't support the filibuster, but I also don't support doom saying less than a week into a new congress nor alternative realities where the GOP did things they didnt.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It's super cool right now to be an activist that worked very hard to elect someone you hold no affection for, to be derided by that person and their party for doing so, and then receive nothing in return.
EDIT: And then be expected to do the same thing in 2 years, and receive the brunt of the blame if they lose, instead of the people in power themselves
Javen on
+14
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
It's easy to do that when it doesn't matter! Like Paul Ryan wasn't sitting there in the House thinking "Oh man, this is gonna be so good, Mitch's gonna pass all these things and it'll be awesome." He did all that knowing Mitch wouldn't do a goddamn thing. It was all just *shudder* virtue signaling.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
If theyre not going to get rid of the filibuster I pray theyll be spending all that free time coming up with a better argument for why full control of the House, Senate, and White House didnt mean they could fullfill their promises because trying to put it all on 2 senators is going to get them shellacked.
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
If they can't get anything done the party is done. Flat out. We won't keep the house or senate in 2022, and we'll get Trump in 24.
There's no amount of excuses that will make these two refusing to do what's necessary to fix our government ok. We won purely because of the pandemic. We won't have that to rely on next time.
We have to get to work on fixing things so we can gain seats in 22, and if these two won't do it, they should be hounded day and night until they do. They'll single handedly be responsible for the deaths of countless people who are desperately needing for us to have a functioning government again.
No I don't.
+8
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
Okay, sure, so the GOP is as hamstrung by their own Senators as the Dems are, and couldn't get anything done. I can agree to that without much of a leap. So, uh.. case closed on that tangent?
GOP incompetence doesn't merit the Dems the right to achieve nothing as well. The whole point of electing them is to be better than the GOP
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
Ansago on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
"It's the first week" is BS
The filibuster, the courts, DC statehood were all election topics. These Senators have had months to map out their positions, and it's not doomsaying when said Senators come out and say, "These are our positions". They've declared that McConnell is still in control and people should not find that acceptable
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
Okay, sure, so the GOP is as hamstrung by their own Senators as the Dems are, and couldn't get anything done. I can agree to that without much of a leap. So, uh.. case closed on that tangent?
GOP incompetence doesn't merit the Dems the right to achieve nothing as well. The whole point of electing them is to be better than the GOP
Having more noble aims than the GOP doesn't mean that the rules of the game change.
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Is nowhere near unheard of. Mexican President Obrador threw a huge fit about losing the elections against Vicente Fox....then he ran again and won.
I don't have better words to describe how stupid I find his statements and opinions today, he has to be sabotaging.
The same thing national protests do for anything - get the protesters airtime to state their grievances. Senators who want to keep their seats aren't going to be able ignore a nation accusing them of refusing to govern as it lets their opponents do all the talking - they'll have to respond and open a dialogue. And open dialogue is gonna be a lot better than Dems shrugging their shoulders mouthing "What can we do?"
Plus maybe if people get fired up over it, it may actually invigorate people to primary these Senators if they refuse to act. But you can't just wait for Arizona or West Virginia residents to raise a ruckus, it has to be all of us to get any traction
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
So, they are burning reconciliation on the stimulus bill and that's it.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Fuck me, they are the most timid, useless assholes imaginable, and they can't even see that it's not going to fucking work.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Because holding his seat is more important than doing his job
Theoretically they have 2 reconcilliations, since last years wasn't used
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
pleasepaypreacher.net
If you're asking about Manchin he's the senator of a state that went for Trump by like 20 points.
If you're asking about Sinema they're the senator of a state that went for Biden only because Trump pissed off the Navajo.
Edit: basically they have to run as Republican friendly or very interested in unity and compromise.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Remember: When shit burns to the ground, the GOP benefits.
They literally don't give a shit that laws weren't passed. That's red meat for their base. They like that they didn't do anything.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
"What we need to do, is not use the majority we were elected to office to use to accomplish the things our base wants us to do. Because that will surely help us win next time."
Fucking useless. Pathetic.
Their base doesn't care and, despite what they might say, a lot of Americans in general don't care, so this doesn't even come close to making up the loss of getting anything done
They can Majority Rule change any aspect of the filibuster without 'eliminating' it. Manchin is right there being quoted he won't even do that even if it means Democrats don't ever get committee control.
And Preacher you're treating GOP and Democratic legislation goals as the same. They're not. The GOP wants less laws, and less functional government, which aside from killing the ACA outright they had plenty of levers in the courts and the executive to execute. Democrats are supposed to want the opposite, and actually legislating is our best recourse
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
pleasepaypreacher.net
They could've. In a heartbeat. And they didn't.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Maybe Democrats might eventually get to take control of committees. If Manchin and Sinema let them.
They could have given way more money to the rich if they could have passed more bills. Imagine how much deregulation they could have gotten up to.
But they couldn't. So they depended on Executive Orders, which Biden is now undoing. In the same way Obama relied on EOs that Trump undid.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
They didn't after they failed on the Obamcare repeal, but Trump's wall also failed to get any traction and that was something the president was gung ho about. Like the GOP has a shitty awful agenda, and they didn't get everythign they wanted when they were in power and again that's a fact, Obama when he had a majority actually passed legislation including Obamacare, the GOP didn't, so we should be arguing facts.
I don't support the filibuster, but I also don't support doom saying less than a week into a new congress nor alternative realities where the GOP did things they didnt.
pleasepaypreacher.net
EDIT: And then be expected to do the same thing in 2 years, and receive the brunt of the blame if they lose, instead of the people in power themselves
It's easy to do that when it doesn't matter! Like Paul Ryan wasn't sitting there in the House thinking "Oh man, this is gonna be so good, Mitch's gonna pass all these things and it'll be awesome." He did all that knowing Mitch wouldn't do a goddamn thing. It was all just *shudder* virtue signaling.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
There's no amount of excuses that will make these two refusing to do what's necessary to fix our government ok. We won purely because of the pandemic. We won't have that to rely on next time.
We have to get to work on fixing things so we can gain seats in 22, and if these two won't do it, they should be hounded day and night until they do. They'll single handedly be responsible for the deaths of countless people who are desperately needing for us to have a functioning government again.
Okay, sure, so the GOP is as hamstrung by their own Senators as the Dems are, and couldn't get anything done. I can agree to that without much of a leap. So, uh.. case closed on that tangent?
GOP incompetence doesn't merit the Dems the right to achieve nothing as well. The whole point of electing them is to be better than the GOP
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
The filibuster, the courts, DC statehood were all election topics. These Senators have had months to map out their positions, and it's not doomsaying when said Senators come out and say, "These are our positions". They've declared that McConnell is still in control and people should not find that acceptable
Having more noble aims than the GOP doesn't mean that the rules of the game change.