I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Because the national party is feckless and holds no concept of party discipline for any member on its rightward flank.
It’s two fucking senators bringing everything to a screeching halt and ultimately ceding their slim majority to Mitch McConnell. There’s a fucking pandemic on, the GOP has leveraged every rule, loophole and bylaw to bend the court to their whim for a generation, their recent president incited a literal lynch mob to attack Congress itself and yet still
STILL
these two chucklefucks want to pretend we can forge a bipartisan coalition with the people who are literally undermining the already tenuous, thanks to their concerted national efforts, democracy this country has.
If the party cannot somehow come around and get two senators to fucking suck it up and end the one fucking thing preventing them from getting anything done, then what the fuck is it good for?
It will never cease to amaze me that when the GOP is in the majority, they get to do whatever they want. And when the Democrats are in the majority, they get to do whatever the GOP wants.
The GOP held all three and didn't get whatever they wanted? Like they passed very little actual laws while they were in power, they absolutely fucked up the judicary, but that's not subject to filibuster.
They literally eliminated the SC filibuster on the way to that, the only thing stopping them from killing it for laws is not wanting it that badly.
Yes, but again they didn't get everything they wanted, and you don't need to eliminate the filibuster to eliminate the SC filibuster that was a simple majority rule change.
Its important to argue with facts and not feelings and making up legislative achievements for the GOP who were stymied as much by their own membership as the dems are is just ceding power to them.
No, what I'm saying is they DID get everything they wanted. They just wanted the ability to obstruct us in the future more than any other legislative priority because their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
They didn't get Obamacare repealed, or new abortion restrictions, or any number of other awful GOP policies. So no again they didn't get everything they wanted.
their priorities outside giving money to the rich (which they did) are wedge issues and actually resolving them takes their power away.
This is calvinball bullshit I'm not going to argue "well actually their real agenda" to make what was said correct when it wasn't.
Preacher, did they bring anything besides Obamacare to an actual vote? I think their actions show how much they really care about passing their awful policies at the national level
The House passed tons of bad shit. Both before and after Trump. McConnell protects his Senators by never letting it come up for a vote.
They didn't bring anything else to the floor because you basically never bring stuff to the floor you know will fail if you are half-way competent. And McConnell is halfway competent at that part of his job.
Okay, sure, so the GOP is as hamstrung by their own Senators as the Dems are, and couldn't get anything done. I can agree to that without much of a leap. So, uh.. case closed on that tangent?
GOP incompetence doesn't merit the Dems the right to achieve nothing as well. The whole point of electing them is to be better than the GOP
Having more noble aims than the GOP doesn't mean that the rules of the game change.
the democrats have the majority, they literally get to determine the rules of the senate
Holding up committees may be the craziest part of this, because leading up to the election it was seen as the only guaranteed value of Manchin's existence in the Senate.
The filibuster, the courts, DC statehood were all election topics. These Senators have had months to map out their positions, and it's not doomsaying when said Senators come out and say, "These are our positions". They've declared that McConnell is still in control and people should not find that acceptable
"It's the first week" applies to stuff like getting past McConnell's latest flavor of BS, which wasn't an election issue.
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
"Kick them out and accept the loss" is a weird play given that the current situation still barely got things to 50. Even with the filibuster in place, having 50 still gives control of bills to the floor, the reconciliation bills, judges, and a number of other importer things.
Manchin doesn't give a shit what Shumer thinks because not giving a shit about what Shumer thinks to kind of the way he gets elected. The progressive last November lost WV by forty three points.
Holding up committees may be the craziest part of this, because leading up to the election it was seen as the only guaranteed value of Manchin's existence in the Senate.
How many fucking years did I say Manchin was gonna fuck shit up when it came down to the wire, only to get told how we needed him because he’s the only man who could deliver us half of West Virginia?
I do not think it should be taken as a given that Manchin or Sinema would be a yes for any of the bills that would be brought up under reconciliation, judges, and a number of other important things.
I honestly think they are highly underestimating the enormous deflation of support the party will see if this is where things stay for the next month or two, let alone two years. Schumer was literally crowing about huge pandemic relief, $2000 checks, $15 minimum wage *if* we won Senate. Well look at that Chuck, we won it for you. Ahhh but you didn't say *when* we would get any of that, no problem, we'll just try again later! Don't pretend you can do things when you know you don't have the votes, even with a majority.
I honestly think they are highly underestimating the enormous deflation of support the party will see if this is where things stay for the next month or two, let alone two years. Schumer was literally crowing about huge pandemic relief, $2000 checks, $15 minimum wage *if* we won Senate. Well look at that Chuck, we won it for you. Ahhh but you didn't say *when* we would get any of that, no problem, we'll just try again later! Don't pretend you can do things when you know you don't have the votes, even with a majority.
I'm expecting that they will attempt to pivot to the right (they will call it the center) for the midterms.
I do not think it should be taken as a given that Manchin or Sinema would be a yes for any of the bills that would be brought up under reconciliation, judges, and a number of other important things.
Exactly
Why should we trust them to not put the Lucy’s football of bipartisan compromise ahead of doing anything meaningful that helps the people of this country?
Either they know who the fuck Mitch McConnell and the GOP are and don’t care, or they’re so detached from reality that their seats are strategically useless to the party, or they give more of a damn about their own personal power than getting shit done for this country There aren’t many flattering answers on the table for this shit
Honestly, why should anyone support a party that's going to fuck up having won the house, senate, and presidency this badly after not having a trifecta like this for decades (besides the slim majority that allowed the ACA to get passed)?
We desperately need a party that is able to implement their agenda, not one that cares one fucking bit about unity. The only way to accomplish unity in the US is through drastic change that has an overwhelmingly positive outcome.
No I don't.
+4
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
The filibuster, the courts, DC statehood were all election topics. These Senators have had months to map out their positions, and it's not doomsaying when said Senators come out and say, "These are our positions". They've declared that McConnell is still in control and people should not find that acceptable
"It's the first week" applies to stuff like getting past McConnell's latest flavor of BS, which wasn't an election issue.
McConnell's latest flavor isn't different in regards to the response. Either you take away his power to filibuster or you hang yourselves out to dry. That's the lever here. Unless Schumer et al think they have some new way to inspire McConnell to compromise, that's the only lever and the choice is the same as before the election: You either pull it or you don't
Democrats who give you the Senate but dont vote for your agenda are worse than Republicans in the same seats.
Schumer should tell the two that they can either back the party line and get some kickbacks or lose all party funding and watch money pour into anyone who primaries them. Too bad he's spineless.
The fucking cherry on this shit cake istheir next elections from now, getting Jack shit done ultimately costs them their seats and this entire clusterfuck was for nothing more than the egos of two jackasses to feel noble and important while the nation suffered from a cacophony of godawful shit.
Manchin doesn't give a shit what Shumer thinks because not giving a shit about what Shumer thinks to kind of the way he gets elected. The progressive last November lost WV by forty three points.
Yeah...but does he have to be such a dick about it? He's openly throwing his hat in McConnell's corner, it's fucking gross.
0
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
No I don't.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
Holding up committees may be the craziest part of this, because leading up to the election it was seen as the only guaranteed value of Manchin's existence in the Senate.
It also seems on course for blocking Biden's entire cabinet, since the only confirmations so far are the DNI and the Secretary of Defense.
0
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
I mean the problem is that while the majority of the party is running to the left, these particular senators were voted in by people who are more purple than blue in their voting habits, so it's hard to push for more left-leaning Dems in their spots.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
I can see what is actually happening because I've seen us do it every 2-4 years for my entire life.
Slamming our collective dicks in the door over and over again doesn't seem to be working.
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
Schumer has no leverage here and whipping in the US is pathetically weak and has been for ages. It's actually gotten stronger recently if anything but it's still basically nothing. (see - Murkowski as an easy example here)
You are making the same mistake people make when they complain about "Congress" like it's some singular undifferentiable entity. It's silly then, it's silly now.
Holding up committees may be the craziest part of this, because leading up to the election it was seen as the only guaranteed value of Manchin's existence in the Senate.
It also seems on course for blocking Biden's entire cabinet, since the only confirmations so far are the DNI and the Secretary of Defense.
They also confirmed Yellen for Treasury today, but this is still going much slower than it should be.
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
Schumer has no leverage here and whipping in the US is pathetically weak and has been for ages. It's actually gotten stronger recently if anything but it's still basically nothing. (see - Murkowski as an easy example here)
You are making the same mistake people make when they complain about "Congress" like it's some singular undifferentiable entity. It's silly then, it's silly now.
You're not the only person in the thread who understands how the Senate works.
McConnell blocking even routine actions like seating the president’s cabinet should be carte blanche for the entire caucus to tell him, with the Senate rules, to eat shit
Manchin and Sinema are masturbating to procedure worship when nobody gives a good goddamn about Senate procedure
But even if killing the filibuster lost Manchin his job, he should still do it because if the only thing you stand for is arcane procedure that keeps you from doing anything, you should be fired into the sun
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
How many fucking sausages do we have to see before we can weigh in on this shit?
A good chunk of us have been watching the sausage get made for over a decade, nearly two. At what point do we get to say “the sausage fucking sucks” without being treated as if we just don’t understand the sage wisdom of the beltway?
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
Hmm, no, I think it's perfectly acceptable to get ornery when the most basic functions of a body are being held back, and the majority is unwilling to remove the barriers necessary for those most-basic functions to take place. And it seems disingenuous to frame it in the future tense when it's happened before, and is in the process of happening since last week.
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
The Senators opposed to removing the filibuster are literally refusing to seat themselves as the majority. It's the most spineless thing I can imagine.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
This is why you run to the left instead of the "center". The "center" gets you these assholes, who are going to make it so even "center" targeted policy won't get passed.
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
How many fucking sausages do we have to see before we can weigh in on this shit?
A good chunk of us have been watching the sausage get made for over a decade, nearly two. At what point do we get to say “the sausage fucking sucks” without being treated as if we just don’t understand the sage wisdom of the beltway?
Hey, remember when you railed about Clyburn ruminating for the impeachment trial waiting 100 days, which was a Sunday? Could you remind me what happened with that, specifically what was announced the Monday?
I know it's basically meaningless, but if this is how it's going to be for the next two years I'm done with the national Democratic party. No more donating, no more phone banking, nothing. I'll continue to support my local politicians but the big D party is completely useless. So many resources poured into GA so we could win those two Senate seats and..do absolutely nothing of value with them.
Why are you blaming the national Democratic party? The majority of the party is trying to get shit done. Hell, it seems like even the majority of Democratic Senators are trying to get shit done. The problem is that the Senate forces anything, including just taking control of the Senate, to get buy-in from every single Democrat, which means Manchin and Sinema and the like. And from what we know so far it's that small number of D Senators that are the hold-up here.
Then kick them out of the party, accept the loss, and try to build one that will actually vote to do the things that your voters put you in office for. If we can squeak out a majority in both chambers and then get shut down by two wannabe Republicans we already don't have a majority worth anything. If we can't even control the committees that bring bills to the floor what's the point? If Schumer is such a weak leader he can't unite every other D senator against Sinema and Manchin to get them to tow the line despite any potential consequences for the both of them why should we support a party that insists on making him leader over and over? I'm just done putting in all the work and then getting a nice membership to the jelly of the month club.
Schumer has no leverage here and whipping in the US is pathetically weak and has been for ages. It's actually gotten stronger recently if anything but it's still basically nothing. (see - Murkowski as an easy example here)
You are making the same mistake people make when they complain about "Congress" like it's some singular undifferentiable entity. It's silly then, it's silly now.
You continue to do this, so I'll keep asking; please stop assuming that dissatisfaction is the same as a lack of understanding. It's very condescending.
Ultimately it feels like if McConnell want's a non binding promise to hand over the committee gavels and Manchin is insisting on playing stupid games, then this is a dumb hill to die on. Take the win you can get now and fight that battle when it's an important bill and you can dump all of the pressure on anyone who's still playing this game like the Trump admin didn't just fucking happen.
We didn’t win enough seats. That’s just the reality of it.
We need Manchin and Sinema, we just also need a few more seats so they don’t have to vote.
They are not worse than Republicans in those seats because if they were Republicans then Mitch McConnell be the for real real Senate Majority leader.
And that situation is absolutely worse than the one we’re in now.
If Machin and Sinema keep the Senate 51-50 Dem without the ability to do anything you're in the same seat as if the GOP controlled it but now you're stuck explaining to the voters why you suck so bad that even with control of the Presidency and Congress you couldn't move the agenda you told them you would.
Like I said, I will happily continue to support and advocate for local politicians/politics. Those are important and have a direct impact on people. But I've been jerked around by the national party my whole adult life, and if they can't find it in themselves to use the power we gave them or admit that the platform they're running on isn't the right one to actually win a useable majority they are a useless party. I'll continue to vote for them because, yes, the alternative is absolutely worse, but I'm not investing any more time or money into a national apparatus that would rather appeal to Joe fucking Manchin than the tens of millions of other people who put them in power.
Also West Virginia and Arizona aren’t the only places where we could pick up senators. To say nothing of what we could achieve in those states if we actually tried courting the disenfranchised who don’t believe their voices matter, and worked harder on tearing down the restrictions the GOP has erected to keep those who’d vote against them in check.
Four years ago, most folks here would’ve thought blue Georgia was impossible, but look where we are now.
Like I said, I will happily continue to support and advocate for local politicians/politics. Those are important and have a direct impact on people. But I've been jerked around by the national party my whole adult life, and if they can't find it in themselves to use the power we gave them or admit that the platform they're running on isn't the right one to actually win a useable majority they are a useless party. I'll continue to vote for them because, yes, the alternative is absolutely worse, but I'm not investing any more time or money into a national apparatus that would rather appeal to Joe fucking Manchin than the tens of millions of other people who put them in power.
They need Manchin's vote. The ire should be aimed at Manchin, Sinema, Coons, Tester, Feinstein (again), and Angus King. Though Coons and Tester might be budging a little because they understand the purpose of being there is to actually do stuff. The other four just want the title and perks and none of the responsibility.
enlightenedbum on
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
As far as I can tell, the only real functional difference between now and a month ago in the senate is now we get to confirm judges. Because otherwise, Mcconnell holds just as much power as he did before unless the filibuster is removed.
Either way, I give it until the summer when the next most moderate section of Democrats get squeamish about doing anything that could potentially paint them as 'liberal' and the chance at passing any legislation at all shrinks even further. So if this is indeed a temporary hitch where Manchin and any other dissenter can be convinced, I hope that they do it soon.
And the vast majority of people are not going to be like "Oh well, the internal politics of West Virginia mean that Joe Manchin needed to be seen to have moderate credibility, which combined with the filibuster means the Democrats were unable to actually enact legislation, so it's not really their fault."
They will say "Joe Biden is president, he is a Democrat, and they did fuck all to make my life better. They can get fucked."
And there will be a ton of volunteers who feel like Ansago does.
This is like a stupider version of 2009. Without a reasonable chance of getting ACA.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
Posts
Because the national party is feckless and holds no concept of party discipline for any member on its rightward flank.
It’s two fucking senators bringing everything to a screeching halt and ultimately ceding their slim majority to Mitch McConnell. There’s a fucking pandemic on, the GOP has leveraged every rule, loophole and bylaw to bend the court to their whim for a generation, their recent president incited a literal lynch mob to attack Congress itself and yet still
STILL
these two chucklefucks want to pretend we can forge a bipartisan coalition with the people who are literally undermining the already tenuous, thanks to their concerted national efforts, democracy this country has.
If the party cannot somehow come around and get two senators to fucking suck it up and end the one fucking thing preventing them from getting anything done, then what the fuck is it good for?
the democrats have the majority, they literally get to determine the rules of the senate
"It's the first week" applies to stuff like getting past McConnell's latest flavor of BS, which wasn't an election issue.
"Kick them out and accept the loss" is a weird play given that the current situation still barely got things to 50. Even with the filibuster in place, having 50 still gives control of bills to the floor, the reconciliation bills, judges, and a number of other importer things.
Manchin doesn't give a shit what Shumer thinks because not giving a shit about what Shumer thinks to kind of the way he gets elected. The progressive last November lost WV by forty three points.
How many fucking years did I say Manchin was gonna fuck shit up when it came down to the wire, only to get told how we needed him because he’s the only man who could deliver us half of West Virginia?
I'm expecting that they will attempt to pivot to the right (they will call it the center) for the midterms.
Exactly
Why should we trust them to not put the Lucy’s football of bipartisan compromise ahead of doing anything meaningful that helps the people of this country?
Either they know who the fuck Mitch McConnell and the GOP are and don’t care, or they’re so detached from reality that their seats are strategically useless to the party, or they give more of a damn about their own personal power than getting shit done for this country There aren’t many flattering answers on the table for this shit
I wish that more people would consider the failure in 2010 not to be 'we passed Obamacare' and not 'it took over a year for us to pass Obamacare'
We desperately need a party that is able to implement their agenda, not one that cares one fucking bit about unity. The only way to accomplish unity in the US is through drastic change that has an overwhelmingly positive outcome.
McConnell's latest flavor isn't different in regards to the response. Either you take away his power to filibuster or you hang yourselves out to dry. That's the lever here. Unless Schumer et al think they have some new way to inspire McConnell to compromise, that's the only lever and the choice is the same as before the election: You either pull it or you don't
Schumer should tell the two that they can either back the party line and get some kickbacks or lose all party funding and watch money pour into anyone who primaries them. Too bad he's spineless.
Yeah...but does he have to be such a dick about it? He's openly throwing his hat in McConnell's corner, it's fucking gross.
We also passed the least effective version of Obamacare we could because the filibuster made Joe Lieberman the deciding fucking vote
Oh yeah, that would have worked in WV.
Seriously though, while this shit is annoying, let's see what is actually happening before we write off the Dem party forever, hmm?
Let's see the actual sausage, instead of railing about the sausage making.
It also seems on course for blocking Biden's entire cabinet, since the only confirmations so far are the DNI and the Secretary of Defense.
I mean the problem is that while the majority of the party is running to the left, these particular senators were voted in by people who are more purple than blue in their voting habits, so it's hard to push for more left-leaning Dems in their spots.
I can see what is actually happening because I've seen us do it every 2-4 years for my entire life.
Slamming our collective dicks in the door over and over again doesn't seem to be working.
Schumer has no leverage here and whipping in the US is pathetically weak and has been for ages. It's actually gotten stronger recently if anything but it's still basically nothing. (see - Murkowski as an easy example here)
You are making the same mistake people make when they complain about "Congress" like it's some singular undifferentiable entity. It's silly then, it's silly now.
They also confirmed Yellen for Treasury today, but this is still going much slower than it should be.
You're not the only person in the thread who understands how the Senate works.
Manchin and Sinema are masturbating to procedure worship when nobody gives a good goddamn about Senate procedure
But even if killing the filibuster lost Manchin his job, he should still do it because if the only thing you stand for is arcane procedure that keeps you from doing anything, you should be fired into the sun
How many fucking sausages do we have to see before we can weigh in on this shit?
A good chunk of us have been watching the sausage get made for over a decade, nearly two. At what point do we get to say “the sausage fucking sucks” without being treated as if we just don’t understand the sage wisdom of the beltway?
Hmm, no, I think it's perfectly acceptable to get ornery when the most basic functions of a body are being held back, and the majority is unwilling to remove the barriers necessary for those most-basic functions to take place. And it seems disingenuous to frame it in the future tense when it's happened before, and is in the process of happening since last week.
The Senators opposed to removing the filibuster are literally refusing to seat themselves as the majority. It's the most spineless thing I can imagine.
We need Manchin and Sinema, we just also need a few more seats so they don’t have to vote.
They are not worse than Republicans in those seats because if they were Republicans then Mitch McConnell would be the for real Senate Majority leader.
And that situation is absolutely worse than the one we’re in now.
Hey, remember when you railed about Clyburn ruminating for the impeachment trial waiting 100 days, which was a Sunday? Could you remind me what happened with that, specifically what was announced the Monday?
You continue to do this, so I'll keep asking; please stop assuming that dissatisfaction is the same as a lack of understanding. It's very condescending.
If Machin and Sinema keep the Senate 51-50 Dem without the ability to do anything you're in the same seat as if the GOP controlled it but now you're stuck explaining to the voters why you suck so bad that even with control of the Presidency and Congress you couldn't move the agenda you told them you would.
Four years ago, most folks here would’ve thought blue Georgia was impossible, but look where we are now.
They need Manchin's vote. The ire should be aimed at Manchin, Sinema, Coons, Tester, Feinstein (again), and Angus King. Though Coons and Tester might be budging a little because they understand the purpose of being there is to actually do stuff. The other four just want the title and perks and none of the responsibility.
They will say "Joe Biden is president, he is a Democrat, and they did fuck all to make my life better. They can get fucked."
And there will be a ton of volunteers who feel like Ansago does.
This is like a stupider version of 2009. Without a reasonable chance of getting ACA.