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Advanced Table-Top RPG Thread: 2nd Edition

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I think that's a bit better?

    I kind of question using the scores for both a number of dice and a bonus to the dice. Is there a reason you need to have a bonus?

    Which bonus? The proficiency bonus (which I'd be stealing outright from D&D fifth edition because I think its a simple, effective system) or the attribute bonus? The attribute bonus I'd be fine chopping off, I'm just very used to it being applied to every roll (a carryover from the traditional d20 model).
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Also, with that system, let's be clear about how the power curve is going to look. Assuming no other changes, you're going to be getting diminishing returns with your average rolls as you level, as things get increasingly swingier. 2d6+4 has an average roll of 11, with a range of 6-16, while 4d6+4 has an average roll of 18, with a range of 8-28. If that's the sort of thing you're looking for, that can be good, but I feel like it runs contrary to the level progression narrative you generally see.

    This I will have to think on.

    The attribute bonus. I'd have to run some further numbers to fully consider the odds of how it shakes out, but it ultimately just feels muddled to me to use the same score for two different things in one test.

    All this said, of course, remember that I don't like d20 systems and I may also not be the target audience for this sort of thing in the end.

    Straightzi on
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    ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    Flat modifiers on a dicepool (like a few d6's) are an enormous swing in expected power, because they shift the curve entirely instead of just adjusting the average the way they do on a single die (like a d20). This is especially true when you're talking about only something like 2d6 or 3d6 being the expectation.

    Consider a target number of 10, and you have 2d6. You're 16.67% likely to succeed. Now make it 2d6+3; intuitively, you might think that because this brings the average to 10, you're 50% likely to succeed. But in fact, you're 58% likely to succeed. Make it 2d6+4 and you go up to 72% likely. 2d6+5 is 83% likely. Because of the nature of the curve sliding around, it makes individual modifier points have large and semi-unpredictable results on success rate.

    For this reason, I would recommend sticking to either dice pools or flat modifiers, and not combining them except when the flat modifier is kept small. Some other systems (like Star Wars d6) do similar things, where you can have say 3d6+1 or 3d6+2, but if you get up to +3, you just add another die and reset to 0 flat mod, so it'd be 4d6.

    I also recommend using anydice.com to look at what results you'll get with changes to mechanics, if that's something you're comfortable with. Probability in general is unintuitive to most people, and dice pool probabilities are particularly unintuitive, so it can be easy to design a mechanic that looks good on paper but then does not work as intended in play.

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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    How to get a roleplaying group:
    1. Ask folk to play game.
    2. Assure them you’ll make homemade pizza.
    3. Play game.

    But that was the ancient before times, now I figure you ask around online and play over Discord. I haven’t run a game online properly, but I’ve run a few ‘play by post’ games on this forum. I’ll give you a shout @Peas the next time I do that.



    Would anyone like to see a game system I’m making? I won’t force it on y’all.



    This isn’t quite what Peas is after, but I might run a super short tournament game on here using D&D 5E soon.

    Unlike my last D&D game ‘The Temple of Yonth’ it’ll be a straightforward set of duels between pairs of 1st level characters, and won’t be using the modified rule set of Yonth. Survivors gain a level between duels.

    Posting will slow play down considerably, but it still might only take two weeks.

    About 6 players would be ideal, but I’ll take any amount.

    Does it sound like a nice waste of time? Give me a bell if you’re interested.

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    PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    That sounds pretty neat!
    I was thinking that learning an existing world and it mechanics might teach or push me on how to make my own stuff instead of just fumbling around with my unimaginative ass

    Peas on
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Peas wrote: »
    That sounds pretty neat!
    I was thinking that learning an existing world and it mechanics might teach or push me on how to make my own stuff instead of just fumbling around with my unimaginative ass

    Roleplaying is pretty good for teaching improv and getting the creative juices flowing, to be sure.

    I don’t know that you need to learning everything about a particular world, but it’s nice to read up on stuff just for the sake of it.

    If you do play a roleplaying game some time, no one is gonna expect you to know it all from the start, just learn the basics as you go.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    That's better written and calculated than the math I was doing in my head, yeah.

    I'm also just going to break down a couple of different dice pool systems that could work in comparison. Not necessarily because I think they're better, just to make sure you're thinking about all your options.

    Dice Pool with Static Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to roll at least once (or more, if you want, but always the same number). You'd generally be looking at a 5 or a 6 for your target number here, and fairly small pools of dice (the numbers we've been talking about seem about right). So if your target number is 6, you have a 33% chance with 2d6, a 50% with 3d6, etc. A couple of specific things to note: dice pool modifications are huge here, so gaining or losing one die as a situational bonus can make a big difference, and there is no way to guarantee a success (or failure) - additional dice will be statistically helpful, but there is always a chance for failure.

    Dice Pool with Variable Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to get a number of dependent on the difficulty. For the dice pools we've been talking about, this might be like, a 4+ is a success, but anything beyond a basic challenge will require multiple successes to succeed. This also allows for great opposed rolls, where each side of a conflict is trying to get more successes than the other. With high fixed difficulty numbers (requiring four or five successes, for instance), you can effectively lock players who don't have enough dice out of attempting certain tasks, and even with low fixed difficulty numbers, there is still no guarantee of success.

    Dice Pool with Variable Dice
    This is the sort of thing where rather than gaining more dice as you level up, your dice themselves get better. Maybe your level 1 fighter rolls 4d6 on a toughness roll to cleave into an orc, but your level 4 fighter will be rolling 4d8, and at level 8 you move up to 4d10. If the target number for this task is a 6 (either static or variable difficulty), then you're effectively juicing the odds significantly without changing the score that controls the number of dice you have or anything like that. All of the same sorts of potential failure still exist here that they would for the other two, but you also have the option of altering difficulty by raising the target number instead of requiring more successes. Setting a target number of 7 for a sufficiently heroic task would both make things more difficult for high level characters and lock out low level characters from the activity entirely.

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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Peas wrote: »
    So as someone with no friends, what's the best way to get into all this and enjoy it?
    I am really curious about how everything works

    I mostly just watch lore and monsters videos on youtube

    You got some answers, but to expand a bit a lot of discords for various systems also have a “looking for games” section. If you’re looking for D&D in particular though not sure if there’s any big specific Discord server though.

    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    FWIW @peas I run like, 2 games a week one of which is fully public drop in/drop out if you can do UK evening's on a tuesday.

    Also dumb thought that keeps bugging me: Death Garden the TTRPG.

    What the fuck is Death Garden you ask because that game didn't do well at all?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPnV-1NH0c&ab_channel=DEATHGARDEN

    It's the future, wealth disparity is extra turbo fucked after an apocalypse, you compete to do cool parkour and survival in order to escape a hunter with a gun. Med tech will (probably) fix you up after a fatal incident so focus on putting on a good show. You make it through enough good shows and wins and it's a life of luxury. Welcome to the entertainment meatgrinder.

    Specifically the thoughts that grab me are:

    1) The players have semi random and secret objectives, all of them want to win but based on what they draw (or what they define after the first game if they live) they can score the character victory getting Fame XP for helping others, selfishly winning or styling on the hunter. Only the GM as both hunter and master of media knows what everyone wants from this parkour horror movie.

    2) The players are presented with a hex grid of vague sectors (each like say, a hundred metres across?) of the map. Their job is to find beacons, activate them with resources collected and so on. Except for eachother it's all blank. The GM as the hunter has the full and accurate copy of the game's map and uses it to track where the hunter is.

    3) The GM playing a hunter is playing another PC. The hunter is obscenely strong but is bound by putting on a good show and random objectives as much as anyone else. Playbooks might get to look at a hunter's objectives or make a show that helps generate fame points in return for getting away. While the GM is playing the show writ large they also get to roleplay the sadist or ex competitor enforcing violence.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    That's better written and calculated than the math I was doing in my head, yeah.

    I'm also just going to break down a couple of different dice pool systems that could work in comparison. Not necessarily because I think they're better, just to make sure you're thinking about all your options.

    Dice Pool with Static Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to roll at least once (or more, if you want, but always the same number). You'd generally be looking at a 5 or a 6 for your target number here, and fairly small pools of dice (the numbers we've been talking about seem about right). So if your target number is 6, you have a 33% chance with 2d6, a 50% with 3d6, etc. A couple of specific things to note: dice pool modifications are huge here, so gaining or losing one die as a situational bonus can make a big difference, and there is no way to guarantee a success (or failure) - additional dice will be statistically helpful, but there is always a chance for failure.

    Dice Pool with Variable Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to get a number of dependent on the difficulty. For the dice pools we've been talking about, this might be like, a 4+ is a success, but anything beyond a basic challenge will require multiple successes to succeed. This also allows for great opposed rolls, where each side of a conflict is trying to get more successes than the other. With high fixed difficulty numbers (requiring four or five successes, for instance), you can effectively lock players who don't have enough dice out of attempting certain tasks, and even with low fixed difficulty numbers, there is still no guarantee of success.

    These two look fine, I'm just trying to figure out how I'd map out these dice systems to something like combat. Like, how do these types of dice systems handle things like armor class?
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Dice Pool with Variable Dice
    This is the sort of thing where rather than gaining more dice as you level up, your dice themselves get better. Maybe your level 1 fighter rolls 4d6 on a toughness roll to cleave into an orc, but your level 4 fighter will be rolling 4d8, and at level 8 you move up to 4d10. If the target number for this task is a 6 (either static or variable difficulty), then you're effectively juicing the odds significantly without changing the score that controls the number of dice you have or anything like that. All of the same sorts of potential failure still exist here that they would for the other two, but you also have the option of altering difficulty by raising the target number instead of requiring more successes. Setting a target number of 7 for a sufficiently heroic task would both make things more difficult for high level characters and lock out low level characters from the activity entirely.

    This is a system that I wouldn't adopt as I'm wanting to exclusively use d6's as I feel they are just easier for folks new to the medium (and also because d6's are vastly cheaper to procure).

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Parsec uses d6 pools with a target number based on your skill and a default of needing 3 successes for a full success.

    So that might be useful reading if you're looking into how combat and stuff can work in a system like that.

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    ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    That's better written and calculated than the math I was doing in my head, yeah.

    I'm also just going to break down a couple of different dice pool systems that could work in comparison. Not necessarily because I think they're better, just to make sure you're thinking about all your options.

    Dice Pool with Static Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to roll at least once (or more, if you want, but always the same number). You'd generally be looking at a 5 or a 6 for your target number here, and fairly small pools of dice (the numbers we've been talking about seem about right). So if your target number is 6, you have a 33% chance with 2d6, a 50% with 3d6, etc. A couple of specific things to note: dice pool modifications are huge here, so gaining or losing one die as a situational bonus can make a big difference, and there is no way to guarantee a success (or failure) - additional dice will be statistically helpful, but there is always a chance for failure.

    Dice Pool with Variable Difficulty
    In this system, you would have a pool of dice and a target number that you need to get a number of dependent on the difficulty. For the dice pools we've been talking about, this might be like, a 4+ is a success, but anything beyond a basic challenge will require multiple successes to succeed. This also allows for great opposed rolls, where each side of a conflict is trying to get more successes than the other. With high fixed difficulty numbers (requiring four or five successes, for instance), you can effectively lock players who don't have enough dice out of attempting certain tasks, and even with low fixed difficulty numbers, there is still no guarantee of success.

    These two look fine, I'm just trying to figure out how I'd map out these dice systems to something like combat. Like, how do these types of dice systems handle things like armor class?

    You can say that the "AC" of your target determines the number of successes needed or the target number on the die or affects your dice pool or something.

    Of course, each of these has hugely different mathematical implications. In a dicepool system I worked on recently, we used target "AC" as number of successes, with a roll of 4/5/6 always being a success. So attacking someone with "AC" 2, you needed 2 successes to hit them. It worked out, but I did a fair bit of math and spreadsheet analysis to make sure that all the numbers and probabilities came out within the desired range and that the expectations matched what we were aiming for with system flavor and so on.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    With variable difficulty, you would have an attack be an opposed roll. You roll your attack dice, and they roll their defense dice - if you beat them, then you deal damage. If you want, you can do some fun things there with like, the amount of successes you get over them being the damage dealt, or a failure of a certain margin giving them an opportunity for a riposte. Or you can just roll damage separately.

    With static difficulty, you don't. It's not a system that works well with that sort of thing. There are other things that you can use in lieu of armor class (for instance, you need to succeed a certain number of times based on the enemy's poise score before you can strike a killing blow), but with a straight up armor class idea it doesn't work.

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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Peas wrote: »
    That sounds pretty neat!
    I was thinking that learning an existing world and it mechanics might teach or push me on how to make my own stuff instead of just fumbling around with my unimaginative ass

    Are you looking to play or run a game? There are some pretty great resources for the latter.

    Is it D&D specifically you’re interested in?

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    PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I don't think I would ever be running a game but I would love to learn how to set up one because I am more interested in the world building aspects of a game. It doesn't have to be D&D specifically, I would prefer a rich fantasy world world though

    Peas on
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    @Straightzi, what if I had attack and damage be drawn from the same pool within that example die roll system?

    So, a character with a Toughness attribute score of 4 has four d6's, but when attacking an opponent they have to choose which of their four d6's go to attack and damaging?

    Zonugal on
    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    JtgVX0H.png
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi, what if I had attack and damage be drawn from the same pool within that example die roll system?

    So, a character with a Toughness attribute score of 4 has four d6's, but when attacking an opponent they have to choose which of their four d6's go to attack and damaging?

    I like that. It makes me think of fights that start with both sides playing conservatively, probing the other side for weakness with glancing blows, and then once you realize that you are fighting a weaker foe, you can afford to lean heavier on them, shifting more of your dice to the damage side.

    I'm assuming we're still looking at a rolled defense here? Another option that I think would be good is having armor be a penalty to dice pools, so like, full plate would be a -2 to your opponent's dice pool, making it harder to allocate damage dice beyond a glancing blow.

    1E Agon did some similar things, as I recall. There specifically it was for attack and defense, the idea being that you build dice pools for your right hand and your left hand based on what weapons you're using and stuff like that. It doesn't directly relate, but as an abbreviated breakdown:
    First off, you have your weapons. For the purposes of this example, let's say that you are using a shield (1d8 left) and sword (2d6 right). The sword gives you the option to use it defensively, shifting 1d6 over into your left hand, as its strength is its versatility.

    Then, you can choose a skill that you're trained in to add to your roll - your shield skill or your sword skill in this case. Whatever die your skill is, you add to that hand.

    And finally you have a name die, which can go in either hand, representing your fame as a Greek hero and functioning as a bit of a wild card.

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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Peas wrote: »
    I don't think I would ever be running a game but I would love to learn how to set up one because I am more interested in the world building aspects of a game. It doesn't have to be D&D specifically, I would prefer a rich fantasy world world though

    I genuinely love the world building side of things, it’s what grabbed me originally with fantasy and sci-fi.

    I’d recommend checking out this wonderful intro series by Matt Colville. He does a great job of being informative, running through setting up a world but also giving rough guidelines on how much prep is too much prep, leaving gaps for players to fill out on their own, etc.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTD2RZz6mlo

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    samurai fighter with a greatsword is some primo do all the damage and still be tough to kill stuff

    take great weapon mastery feat

    use your samurai ability and action surge and get six attacks that do 15+2d6(rerolling 1 and 2 on 1 die per attack)

    EDIT: also all the attacks are with advantage, forgot that part

    PiptheFair on
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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Ooh, if you like Lancer but don’t follow it too closely I just caught up with the No Room For a Wallflower development and it has some rad stuff. No Room for a Wallflower is their first module release and deals with Hercynia, a very important planet in Lancer lore. It also, however, adds a BUNCH of new stuff. The White Witch, Emperor, and Kidd are known, but it also adds alternative frames you can take in a license or find as cool loot. Like the Enkiddu, a prototype Tokugawa that fucking beasts out and gets plasma talons and runs on all fours when in the Danger Zone. Or the Wraith, an alternate Minotaur that can turn people intangible and leave behind “husks” that slow enemies among other things. Also just a new talent that makes you a sort of psychic empath that can defend your allies better. And new enemy types!

    Also... (Deep Lancer lore)
    It adds a new boss type, Eidolons, which sort of represent the paracasual manifestations from shit like DHIYED.

    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Kelor wrote: »
    Peas wrote: »
    I don't think I would ever be running a game but I would love to learn how to set up one because I am more interested in the world building aspects of a game. It doesn't have to be D&D specifically, I would prefer a rich fantasy world world though

    I genuinely love the world building side of things, it’s what grabbed me originally with fantasy and sci-fi.

    I’d recommend checking out this wonderful intro series by Matt Colville. He does a great job of being informative, running through setting up a world but also giving rough guidelines on how much prep is too much prep, leaving gaps for players to fill out on their own, etc.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTD2RZz6mlo

    If you want to mix playing a game and making a world you could use something like The Quiet Year.

    https://buriedwithoutceremony.com/the-quiet-year

    It’s a game where you draw cards, answer a question about it, then add something to a map.

    There’s other similar games, but I’m blanking on their names.

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    DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    Lancer's unbridled love of "paracausal" is something I both love and hate, because it's such absolute nonsense. They might as well just say "magic" because it's 100% what they mean with that word.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Some other good Quiet Year adjacent sorts of things would be Kingdom, The Companions' Tale, Dialect, maybe For The Queen or The King Is Dead.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    Lancer's unbridled love of "paracausal" is something I both love and hate, because it's such absolute nonsense. They might as well just say "magic" because it's 100% what they mean with that word.

    Infinity does the same thing with Quantronic computing.

    What does Quantronic mean? It means it's turbo fast and don't ask questions nerd.

    It's very valuable to establish a value for the word in fiction while at the same time using the word to tell nerds to fucking stop thinking about the question.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi, what if I had attack and damage be drawn from the same pool within that example die roll system?

    So, a character with a Toughness attribute score of 4 has four d6's, but when attacking an opponent they have to choose which of their four d6's go to attack and damaging?

    I like that. It makes me think of fights that start with both sides playing conservatively, probing the other side for weakness with glancing blows, and then once you realize that you are fighting a weaker foe, you can afford to lean heavier on them, shifting more of your dice to the damage side.

    I'm assuming we're still looking at a rolled defense here? Another option that I think would be good is having armor be a penalty to dice pools, so like, full plate would be a -2 to your opponent's dice pool, making it harder to allocate damage dice beyond a glancing blow.

    I'll have to think on defense. I'm used to it being a number rolled against, so that's my history with it. For this system I want to utilize the Defense system from other games, where you have a Defense score (which is usually a base number + your Dexterity modifier + your character's Defense score [usually gained by progression through classes] + any miscellaneous modifiers) and armor provides Damage Reduction.

    This is what I originally cooked up for armor:
    Armor Overview
    You can only wear one piece of armor at a time. You may, however, decide that one collective piece of armor represents an entire suit, a variety of piece-meal sections, or even just one signature item. The time it takes to put on and doff armor is dependent on the armor properties chosen. A piece of armor has up to three armor properties. Some armor properties add [Damage Reduction], which never stack with themselves and aren’t cumulative. The armor property with the highest [Damage Reduction] always takes priority. This [Damage Reduction] applies to all physical, elemental, & energy attacks (but doesn’t apply to psychic damage).
    Creating Armor
    Creating a piece of armor follows 3 simple steps:
    1 -- Choose your base armor set: [Light], [Moderate], or [Heavy].
    ---- [Light] armor provides minor resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Light] armor receiving half their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Light] armor an amount of minutes equal to half their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. [Light] armor can only have 1 armor property.
    ---- [Moderate] armor provides basic resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Moderate] armor receiving their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Moderate] armor an amount of minutes equal to their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. In addition, the wielder of [Moderate] armor doesn’t apply their Defense bonus to their Defense score. [Moderate] armor can only have 2 armor properties.
    ---- [Heavy] armor provides considerable resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Heavy] armor receiving double their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Heavy] armor an amount of minutes equal to triple their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. In addition, the wielder of [Heavy] armor doesn’t apply their Dexterity & Defense bonuses to their Defense score and has their speed reduced by a third of their movement speed. [Heavy] armor can have up to 3 armor properties.
    2 -- Choose armor properties, as dictated by your armor’s limitations (1 for [Light], 2 for [Moderate], 3 for [Heavy]). The piece of armor gains those armor properties. Some armor properties may require another property as a prerequisite of sorts. Unless otherwise specified, an armor property can only be chosen once.
    3 -- Name the piece of armor: e.g. “scalemale.”

    The following armor properties appear on weapons in Labyrinths & Lasers. Some properties may be added multiple times to a single piece of armor. If a piece of armor has such a property, the property name is followed, with the number of times it has been chosen if applied multiple times (e.g. [Ceremonial], [Defensive (2)]). Whenever you choose an armor property for any reason, it follows the rules for Creating Armor presented above, including the number of times an armor property can be chosen. Unless otherwise noted, a character may only benefit from one instance of each armor property at any given time.

    -- [Arcane] armor ranges from mystic breastplates and bracers to the half-plate of war-wizards, empowering the magical abilities of their wielders. [Arcane] armor resists magical damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against damage made as a result of spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Additionally, [Arcane] armor provides half a character’s proficiency bonus to saving throws against spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural abilities targeted at the armor’s wielder. This property never counts towards the number of weapon properties chosen for a weapon.
    -- [Buoyant] armor combats the descent of its wielder deeper into water. [Buoyant] armor, when activated with a bonus action, forces its wielder 6 meters upwards per round when submerged under water. The wielder of [Buoyant] armor can deactivate this with another bonus action. In addition, the wielder of [Buoyant] armor can never fail an Athletics check for swimming when attempting to not drown in open water.
    -- [Ceremonial] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Charisma rolls when interacting with individuals within the government, military, and nobility.
    -- [Climbing] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Athletic rolls when climbing.
    -- [Concealed] armor is automatically concealed, when worn underneath clothing, on your person from anything but a physical search, and you can make a Stealth check at no penalty to conceal them from a physical search.
    -- [Defensive] armor provides a +1 bonus to its wielder’s Defense score, which stacks with other bonuses to their Defense score. This armor property can be applied multiple times.
    -- [Elemental] armor resists particular elemental damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against elemental damage with the [Acid], [Cold], [Electricity], [Fire], or [Sonic] descriptor, determined when the piece of armor is created.
    -- [Energy] armor resists energy damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against energy damage with the [Energy] descriptor.
    -- [Frightening] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Charisma (Intimidation) rolls.
    -- [Gliding] armor automatically slows the fall of its wielder when falling from more than 10 feet from the ground. Extending both armors outward, with an action, the wielder of [Gliding] armor negates damage from a fall greater than 3 meters and allows them to travel 6 meters horizontally for every 1 meter of descent.
    -- [Grappling] armor enhances any successful Grapple combat maneuver made by their wielders. When the wielder of the armor performs a Grapple combat maneuver, they double their character’s proficiency bonus to the roll.
    -- [Natural] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when hiding in natural terrain & environments.
    -- [Quick-Wear] armor can be put on or off in half the time it would usually take its wielder.
    -- [Shadowy] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when hiding in dim and dark conditions.
    -- [Silent] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when attempting to move quietly.
    -- [Spiked] armor deals damage equal to the character’s proficiency bonus to any creature who grapples or wholly swallows its wielder. This damage is done each round its wielder is grappled or swallowed.
    -- [Stabilizing] armor negates damage from the [Bleeding] condition equal to your proficiency bonus, per round.
    -- [Submersible] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Athletic rolls when swimming and doesn’t penalize your movement when submerged.

    Sample Armor
    -- Battle Armor [Moderate: Defensive, Stabilizing]
    -- Diving Suit [Moderate: Buoyant, Submersible]
    -- Dreadnought Armor [Heavy: Defensive, Frightening, Spiked]
    -- Exploration Suit [Heavy: Climbing, Gliding, Submersible]
    -- Hide Armor [Light: Natural]
    -- Noble Armor [Light: Ceremonial]
    -- Stealth Suit [Light: Shadowy]
    -- Stealth Armor: [Moderate: Shadowy, Silent]
    -- Undercover Vest [Light: Concealed]

    I'd have to rework it to fit a new die/combat system obviously, but that's where my head has been at.
    Straightzi wrote: »
    1E Agon did some similar things, as I recall. There specifically it was for attack and defense, the idea being that you build dice pools for your right hand and your left hand based on what weapons you're using and stuff like that. It doesn't directly relate, but as an abbreviated breakdown:
    First off, you have your weapons. For the purposes of this example, let's say that you are using a shield (1d8 left) and sword (2d6 right). The sword gives you the option to use it defensively, shifting 1d6 over into your left hand, as its strength is its versatility.

    Then, you can choose a skill that you're trained in to add to your roll - your shield skill or your sword skill in this case. Whatever die your skill is, you add to that hand.

    And finally you have a name die, which can go in either hand, representing your fame as a Greek hero and functioning as a bit of a wild card.

    I'd probably want to avoid this just because I know something like this would be too complicated for people I play with personally.

    I'd want to keep this all relatively "simple" or at least have the guise of it being "simple."

    Zonugal on
    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    Lancer's unbridled love of "paracausal" is something I both love and hate, because it's such absolute nonsense. They might as well just say "magic" because it's 100% what they mean with that word.

    Infinity does the same thing with Quantronic computing.

    What does Quantronic mean? It means it's turbo fast and don't ask questions nerd.

    It's very valuable to establish a value for the word in fiction while at the same time using the word to tell nerds to fucking stop thinking about the question.

    Yeah it's definitely the way for a sci-fi game to be like "Wait come back we still have magic!", which I love in the same way that I love Star Trek just throwing "temporal" in front of whatever they need for the episode.

    But I also hate it because I try to read Lancer stuff (as the most recent example) and at the end of every paragraph I have to go back and sift through all the nonsense words to figure out if they actually said anything.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    Oh, a one-shot adventure?

    You should absolutely play a Wild-Soul Sorcerer.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Straightzi, what if I had attack and damage be drawn from the same pool within that example die roll system?

    So, a character with a Toughness attribute score of 4 has four d6's, but when attacking an opponent they have to choose which of their four d6's go to attack and damaging?

    I like that. It makes me think of fights that start with both sides playing conservatively, probing the other side for weakness with glancing blows, and then once you realize that you are fighting a weaker foe, you can afford to lean heavier on them, shifting more of your dice to the damage side.

    I'm assuming we're still looking at a rolled defense here? Another option that I think would be good is having armor be a penalty to dice pools, so like, full plate would be a -2 to your opponent's dice pool, making it harder to allocate damage dice beyond a glancing blow.

    I'll have to think on defense. I'm used to it being a number rolled against, so that's my history with it. For this system I want to utilize the Defense system from other games, where you have a Defense score (which is usually a base number + your Dexterity modifier + your character's Defense score [usually gained by progression through classes] + any miscellaneous modifiers) and armor provides Damage Reduction.

    This is what I originally cooked up for armor:
    Armor Overview
    You can only wear one piece of armor at a time. You may, however, decide that one collective piece of armor represents an entire suit, a variety of piece-meal sections, or even just one signature item. The time it takes to put on and doff armor is dependent on the armor properties chosen. A piece of armor has up to three armor properties. Some armor properties add [Damage Reduction], which never stack with themselves and aren’t cumulative. The armor property with the highest [Damage Reduction] always takes priority. This [Damage Reduction] applies to all physical, elemental, & energy attacks (but doesn’t apply to psychic damage).
    Creating Armor
    Creating a piece of armor follows 3 simple steps:
    1 -- Choose your base armor set: [Light], [Moderate], or [Heavy].
    ---- [Light] armor provides minor resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Light] armor receiving half their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Light] armor an amount of minutes equal to half their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. [Light] armor can only have 1 armor property.
    ---- [Moderate] armor provides basic resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Moderate] armor receiving their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Moderate] armor an amount of minutes equal to their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. In addition, the wielder of [Moderate] armor doesn’t apply their Defense bonus to their Defense score. [Moderate] armor can only have 2 armor properties.
    ---- [Heavy] armor provides considerable resistance against attacks, with the wielder of [Heavy] armor receiving double their proficiency bonus in the form of [Damage Reduction]. It takes the wielder of [Heavy] armor an amount of minutes equal to triple their proficiency bonus to put on & take off the armor. In addition, the wielder of [Heavy] armor doesn’t apply their Dexterity & Defense bonuses to their Defense score and has their speed reduced by a third of their movement speed. [Heavy] armor can have up to 3 armor properties.
    2 -- Choose armor properties, as dictated by your armor’s limitations (1 for [Light], 2 for [Moderate], 3 for [Heavy]). The piece of armor gains those armor properties. Some armor properties may require another property as a prerequisite of sorts. Unless otherwise specified, an armor property can only be chosen once.
    3 -- Name the piece of armor: e.g. “scalemale.”

    The following armor properties appear on weapons in Labyrinths & Lasers. Some properties may be added multiple times to a single piece of armor. If a piece of armor has such a property, the property name is followed, with the number of times it has been chosen if applied multiple times (e.g. [Ceremonial], [Defensive (2)]). Whenever you choose an armor property for any reason, it follows the rules for Creating Armor presented above, including the number of times an armor property can be chosen. Unless otherwise noted, a character may only benefit from one instance of each armor property at any given time.

    -- [Arcane] armor ranges from mystic breastplates and bracers to the half-plate of war-wizards, empowering the magical abilities of their wielders. [Arcane] armor resists magical damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against damage made as a result of spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Additionally, [Arcane] armor provides half a character’s proficiency bonus to saving throws against spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural abilities targeted at the armor’s wielder. This property never counts towards the number of weapon properties chosen for a weapon.
    -- [Buoyant] armor combats the descent of its wielder deeper into water. [Buoyant] armor, when activated with a bonus action, forces its wielder 6 meters upwards per round when submerged under water. The wielder of [Buoyant] armor can deactivate this with another bonus action. In addition, the wielder of [Buoyant] armor can never fail an Athletics check for swimming when attempting to not drown in open water.
    -- [Ceremonial] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Charisma rolls when interacting with individuals within the government, military, and nobility.
    -- [Climbing] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Athletic rolls when climbing.
    -- [Concealed] armor is automatically concealed, when worn underneath clothing, on your person from anything but a physical search, and you can make a Stealth check at no penalty to conceal them from a physical search.
    -- [Defensive] armor provides a +1 bonus to its wielder’s Defense score, which stacks with other bonuses to their Defense score. This armor property can be applied multiple times.
    -- [Elemental] armor resists particular elemental damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against elemental damage with the [Acid], [Cold], [Electricity], [Fire], or [Sonic] descriptor, determined when the piece of armor is created.
    -- [Energy] armor resists energy damage, providing [Damage Reduction] equal to the character’s proficiency bonus against energy damage with the [Energy] descriptor.
    -- [Frightening] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Charisma (Intimidation) rolls.
    -- [Gliding] armor automatically slows the fall of its wielder when falling from more than 10 feet from the ground. Extending both armors outward, with an action, the wielder of [Gliding] armor negates damage from a fall greater than 3 meters and allows them to travel 6 meters horizontally for every 1 meter of descent.
    -- [Grappling] armor enhances any successful Grapple combat maneuver made by their wielders. When the wielder of the armor performs a Grapple combat maneuver, they double their character’s proficiency bonus to the roll.
    -- [Natural] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when hiding in natural terrain & environments.
    -- [Quick-Wear] armor can be put on or off in half the time it would usually take its wielder.
    -- [Shadowy] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when hiding in dim and dark conditions.
    -- [Silent] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Stealth rolls when attempting to move quietly.
    -- [Spiked] armor deals damage equal to the character’s proficiency bonus to any creature who grapples or wholly swallows its wielder. This damage is done each round its wielder is grappled or swallowed.
    -- [Stabilizing] armor negates damage from the [Bleeding] condition equal to your proficiency bonus, per round.
    -- [Submersible] armor provides your proficiency bonus on all Athletic rolls when swimming and doesn’t penalize your movement when submerged.

    Sample Armor
    -- Battle Armor [Moderate: Defensive, Stabilizing]
    -- Diving Suit [Moderate: Buoyant, Submersible]
    -- Dreadnought Armor [Heavy: Defensive, Frightening, Spiked]
    -- Exploration Suit [Heavy: Climbing, Gliding, Submersible]
    -- Hide Armor [Light: Natural]
    -- Noble Armor [Light: Ceremonial]
    -- Stealth Suit [Light: Shadowy]
    -- Stealth Armor: [Moderate: Shadowy, Silent]
    -- Undercover Vest [Light: Concealed]

    I'd have to rework it to fit a new die/combat system obviously, but that's where my head has been at.
    Straightzi wrote: »
    1E Agon did some similar things, as I recall. There specifically it was for attack and defense, the idea being that you build dice pools for your right hand and your left hand based on what weapons you're using and stuff like that. It doesn't directly relate, but as an abbreviated breakdown:
    First off, you have your weapons. For the purposes of this example, let's say that you are using a shield (1d8 left) and sword (2d6 right). The sword gives you the option to use it defensively, shifting 1d6 over into your left hand, as its strength is its versatility.

    Then, you can choose a skill that you're trained in to add to your roll - your shield skill or your sword skill in this case. Whatever die your skill is, you add to that hand.

    And finally you have a name die, which can go in either hand, representing your fame as a Greek hero and functioning as a bit of a wild card.

    I'd probably want to avoid this just because I know something like this would be too complicated for people I play with personally.

    I'd want to keep this all relatively "simple" or at least have the guise of it being "simple."

    Any opposed dice pool can be abstracted into a target number by taking the average.

    So if you would have them roll their dice pool and count successes, the difficulty would be their average successes. If you'd have them count the raw number, then the difficulty would be their average result. And so on.

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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Even if I never play it I’d still love to get the core book, but I’ve never seen it for sale, even second hand.

    Was it a kickstarter only thing? I know they are a small publisher. I have to imagine hardbacks come out at retail at some point.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    Oh, a one-shot adventure?

    You should absolutely play a Wild-Soul Sorcerer.

    fucked up thing to suggest

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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2021
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    Oh, a one-shot adventure?

    You should absolutely play a Wild-Soul Sorcerer.

    fucked up thing to suggest

    At least I'm not doing like multi-classed character with 4 classes or some shit

    edit: oooh, I'll do the samurai with great weapons master feat like you suggest but instead of using a greatsword I'll use a glaive or halberd, and play as a bugbear. 15 foot reach, motherfuckers!

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    Oh, a one-shot adventure?

    You should absolutely play a Wild-Soul Sorcerer.

    fucked up thing to suggest

    At least I'm not doing like multi-classed character with 4 classes or some shit

    multiclassing in 5e is not really great honestly

    at least for now, min-maxing is pretty much impossible compared to 3 and 4e, which is a good thing

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hello, game master type people who write their own adventures! I have a tabletop playing friend who wants to get into writing her own adventures to run for Star Trek Adventures instead of relying on premade modules, and is looking for general advice on where to even start with that.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    You may want to look at the One Roll system for ideas on not just creative uses of die pools, but also a system goal of keeping things simple. Systems generally have people rolling die against a target number because defenders rolling gets tedious in the long run. One Roll still lets you throw a buncha die but allocate successes into defensive actions, or giving up damage to mess up the die pool of an opponent.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Be a Tabaxi Monk, move over 120 feet in a single turn and eat a ranged enemy’s face @Darmak

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Iblis wrote: »
    In case it ends up happening, I was discussing what mech to go for in Lancer with another friend. Which resulted in him saying “The fucking Lich!” right as I said “I should go for the Lich!”

    So that course is set. Kind of thinking of going 2 LL in Lich, 1 in Goblin for the rad tier 1 hacking systems, then grabbing Lesson of the Open Door to increase my save target and provide extra heat. Then after that going 2 Napoleon and 1 Sunzi to get access to Stasis Bolt, Stasis Barrier, and Accelerate. Plus probably grab Superior By Design for extra leeway with the Lich’s small heat cap and a bonus immunity to impaired. Go for 3 in the Technophile talent and 2 in Black Thumb for extra survivability to aid with the Lich’s flimsiness from the overshields, ability to drop heat and status, and the save re-rolls from technophile. Then probably Stormbringer 1 to use with the Unraveller if someone else can reliably provide lock-on. Not sure on the talents to focus on from LL 3-6, maybe Hacker. Think that’s a solid-ish build in theory, but hard to say without seeing it in action.

    I really hope I actually get to play now though.

    Keep in mind the big thing that keeps a Lich viable is a reaction to say No. and being grappled stops reactions. So uh, don’t let cataphracts near you. Or dip into Nelson 2 for Armor Lock, so at least you can brace after one abducts you into the enemy composition and use a reaction after your turn to get the hell back to your beacon. Or the Horus core bonus to disappear on taking structure damage.

    Lich is a knives edge of chronological tricks.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    @Darmak, you could also do an archery build utilizing Elven Accuracy?

    Samurai (or Eldritch Knight with True Strike or two levels in Rogue for the Steady Aim variant ability within Cunning Action) is an easy way to get advantage, and then you're rolling 3d20 for ranged attacks.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Oh shit, tomorrow's regular session is gonna be a one-shot instead since a player can't make it. Cool, no biggie, but the DM told us to roll up a level 12 character, whereas we usually just play level 3 or 5 one-shots. I've never made a character that high level before! Anyone got some cool ideas? Preferably no glass canons since I don't know what she'll have up her sleeve and I don't wanna get wasted right off the bat.

    Oh, a one-shot adventure?

    You should absolutely play a Wild-Soul Sorcerer.

    fucked up thing to suggest

    At least I'm not doing like multi-classed character with 4 classes or some shit
    That sounds... Abserd.

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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    @BahamutZERO I haven't done a ton of running my own games, but I've found the most important part is being over planned for when your players go off the rails. It's not like you need to be ready to run a different story if that's where they want to go to, but you have to know to redirect them back to the main story with whatever NPCs they are talking to.

    I think the most useful thing for running your own adventure is having index cards for each of the NPCs you have the characters talk to. Give yourself a rough idea of the character traits they have and an idea of how you want to have them interact with the players. Plus the back of the index card is a good place to make notes of how they've interacted with the characters to remember their past with them.

    A bunch of preplanned small encounters are good to have so you don't have to really improv everything and they can buy you time to come up with your next move.

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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    Iblis wrote: »
    In case it ends up happening, I was discussing what mech to go for in Lancer with another friend. Which resulted in him saying “The fucking Lich!” right as I said “I should go for the Lich!”

    So that course is set. Kind of thinking of going 2 LL in Lich, 1 in Goblin for the rad tier 1 hacking systems, then grabbing Lesson of the Open Door to increase my save target and provide extra heat. Then after that going 2 Napoleon and 1 Sunzi to get access to Stasis Bolt, Stasis Barrier, and Accelerate. Plus probably grab Superior By Design for extra leeway with the Lich’s small heat cap and a bonus immunity to impaired. Go for 3 in the Technophile talent and 2 in Black Thumb for extra survivability to aid with the Lich’s flimsiness from the overshields, ability to drop heat and status, and the save re-rolls from technophile. Then probably Stormbringer 1 to use with the Unraveller if someone else can reliably provide lock-on. Not sure on the talents to focus on from LL 3-6, maybe Hacker. Think that’s a solid-ish build in theory, but hard to say without seeing it in action.

    I really hope I actually get to play now though.

    Keep in mind the big thing that keeps a Lich viable is a reaction to say No. and being grappled stops reactions. So uh, don’t let cataphracts near you. Or dip into Nelson 2 for Armor Lock, so at least you can brace after one abducts you into the enemy composition and use a reaction after your turn to get the hell back to your beacon. Or the Horus core bonus to disappear on taking structure damage.

    Lich is a knives edge of chronological tricks.

    I am strongly thinking of going for the Lesson of Transubstantiation instead of the Open Door, since it does seem very good for letting the Lich avoid focus fire.

    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
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