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The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread: Fauci's Return

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Posts

  • JeanJean Papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    Québec is moving into the next phase of it's vaccination campaign!
    • Vaccination is now open to 60 years + in all regions
    • The Astra Zeneca received from the US will be offered to anyone ages 55+ who wants it. Walk ins will be allowed only for this vaccine.
    • People in category 8) Age 60 and under with chronic disease and 9) essential workers will be able to book their appointments starting next week.

    The only category left after 8) and 9) is 10) The rest of the adult population.

    I'm feeling better after listening to yesterday press conference. I feel like my governement have a clear plan for the vaccination campaign, which helps my nerve a lot.

    "You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
    BrodyAimGnome-InterruptusShadowhope
  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    Whoo, was able to schedule a shot for 2 weeks from now.
    Looks like I'm going to get Moderna. Not sure if that's the one that makes me want to buy Microsoft stuff or whatever, but looking forward to it.

    PSN: jfrofl
    TetraNitroCubaneBlackhawk1313TynnanForarRhesus PositiveOneAngryPossumAbsoluteZero
  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    Radiation wrote: »
    Whoo, was able to schedule a shot for 2 weeks from now.
    Looks like I'm going to get Moderna. Not sure if that's the one that makes me want to buy Microsoft stuff or whatever, but looking forward to it.

    Unfortunately neither my wife nor myself experienced any increased Microsoft desire with both doses, I remain a steadfast Linux supporter and professor. Also my 5G has not shown any improved range or speed but that part may need further testing still.

    Commander ZoomHahnsoo1Brody
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Radiation wrote: »
    Whoo, was able to schedule a shot for 2 weeks from now.
    Looks like I'm going to get Moderna. Not sure if that's the one that makes me want to buy Microsoft stuff or whatever, but looking forward to it.

    Unfortunately neither my wife nor myself experienced any increased Microsoft desire with both doses, I remain a steadfast Linux supporter and professor. Also b but that part may need further testing still.

    This is an important point: Make sure your vaccine is not the AT&T version, or it will only protect you from COVID in about 50% of places- mostly spare bedrooms, that one corner of the living room, and in your neighbors backyard, but not yours.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
    ElvenshaeCommander ZoomHahnsoo1wobblyheadedbobMayabirdToxBrodyspool32PreacherEtheaAphostileEinzelAbsoluteZeroSkeith
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Our personal vaccination status is rather immaterial. Things can start getting back to before and responsibly relaxed when case counts show a notable downward trend ideally approaching 0 for months at a time on an at least national, if not international, scale
    Covid-19 cases will not be zero for the foreseeable future, certainly not 0 over entire months. The vaccines are 90-95% effective but that still leaves 5-10%, possibly more with the variants. There isn't going to be global full vaccination for years and we won't know how long immunity lasts for years. We are aiming for measles, not small pox in the medium term.

    The world isn't going to stay locked down, nor should it. Vaccinated people are already considered safe to interact inside without masks in not-large groups and all the evidence suggests that guidance is going to loosen. There's almost certainly going to be near full capacity NFL next year, schools will almost universally be functioning normally next fall in the US. There may or may not be a vaccine passport period for businesses, but its hard to imagine (in the US) any substantial restrictions still in place next fall.

    Just cause everyone's kinda selfish and are going to try to do those things, you know all stuff people have been trying to do since week 3 of this pandemic, doesn't mean it's actually safe to do those things though.

    What matters is that case counts don't explode when the weather gets nice and people start getting into groups.

    Well the CDC is not going to wait for 0 cases for months before lifting recommended restrictions. Absolute safety from disease is not a prerequisite for interacting with people did before covid became a pandemic. If God magically made all coronaviruses disappear right now, there's still going to be a non-zero chance of dying due to infectious disease. And the danger will be statistically indistinguishable from that existing risk well before there are 0 cases for weeks at a time (if such a standard is even possible).

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Look man if you wanna go out and call it safe while cases are still spiking I'm not gonna stop you going out, but I'm also gonna disagree vehemently with calling it safe.

    It always comes down to watching case counts. Both the number of cases and the case fatality rate. Our personal vaccination status doesn't actually make us totally safe, especially if you're living with folks that aren't vaccinated yet and you like care about em and shit. Just because official restrictions are relaxed doesn't actually mean its fuckin safe to go out and do shit. Official restrictions have been changing almost weekly throughout all of this with constant early openings that resulted in outbreaks and further lockdowns. The status of the restrictions is a useless metric to watch.

    If you want to judge safety you gotta look at case counts and case fatality rate across these openings, and you want those numbers going down. I'm not some ignoramus that thinks we're actually gonna hit 0. We still haven't even totally worked out fuckin polio yet, and covid jumps species too easily. Y'all can stop being condescending silly geese about it, after a year we've all got a basic understanding of the realities. However, while cases are climbing, on the backs of new, more potent, mutations we're unsure of vaccine efficacy against, is not a time to go out and do shit just cause you're vaxxed. Your reasoning here is basically the same reasoning the folks headed to sturgis used. Just cause we can never be 100% safe doesn't mean we're can't look at the correct information to better inform our choices and aim towards general safety. In this case the correct information to look at in order to judge relative safety is case count and case fatality rate, always has been, always will be, and you want to see both of those numbers go down consistently for weeks at a time ideally across restriction relaxations and large gathering holidays.

    Vaccination rate should hopefully causally and positively affect those numbers to enter and maintain a downward trend to a more acceptable floor, but there's still a chance it doesn't, and if it doesn't then that means the vaccinations are a failure at containment and treatment and we need something else. I'm hoping that's not the case, and that very quickly, because of impressively climbing vaccination rates, we do see a notable and significant decline in both cases and case fatality rate. However that still makes them the metrics to watch to determine if things are getting safer, and not our personal vaccination status.

    Commander ZoomMayabirdGnome-InterruptusJaysonFourburboFeloniousmozMrVyngaard
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Look man if you wanna go out and call it safe while cases are still spiking I'm not gonna stop you going out, but I'm also gonna disagree vehemently with calling it safe.

    It always comes down to watching case counts. Both the number of cases and the case fatality rate. Our personal vaccination status doesn't actually make us totally safe, especially if you're living with folks that aren't vaccinated yet and you like care about em and shit. Just because official restrictions are relaxed doesn't actually mean its fuckin safe to go out and do shit. Official restrictions have been changing almost weekly throughout all of this with constant early openings that resulted in outbreaks and further lockdowns. The status of the restrictions is a useless metric to watch.

    If you want to judge safety you gotta look at case counts and case fatality rate across these openings, and you want those numbers going down. I'm not some ignoramus that thinks we're actually gonna hit 0. We still haven't even totally worked out fuckin polio yet, and covid jumps species too easily. Y'all can stop being condescending silly geese about it, after a year we've all got a basic understanding of the realities. However, while cases are climbing, on the backs of new, more potent, mutations we're unsure of vaccine efficacy against, is not a time to go out and do shit just cause you're vaxxed. Your reasoning here is basically the same reasoning the folks headed to sturgis used. Just cause we can never be 100% safe doesn't mean we're can't look at the correct information to better inform our choices and aim towards general safety. In this case the correct information to look at in order to judge relative safety is case count and case fatality rate, always has been, always will be, and you want to see both of those numbers go down consistently for weeks at a time ideally across restriction relaxations and large gathering holidays.

    Vaccination rate should hopefully causally and positively affect those numbers to enter and maintain a downward trend to a more acceptable floor, but there's still a chance it doesn't, and if it doesn't then that means the vaccinations are a failure at containment and treatment and we need something else. I'm hoping that's not the case, and that very quickly, because of impressively climbing vaccination rates, we do see a notable and significant decline in both cases and case fatality rate. However that still makes them the metrics to watch to determine if things are getting safer, and not our personal vaccination status.

    It's not just about case counts, it's also about outcomes. While it would be nice to stomp this thing into the ground via herd immunity, I'm much more concerned about hospitalizations and deaths. Even though the new cases appear to be plateauing or rising slightly (depending on your region) the death counts generally appear to still be plummeting. It may be that we're going to see them plateau or rise as well in a couple weeks, but then again, maybe not--high percentages of the most vulnerable populations have been vaccinated now.

    Anyway, I'm not saying everyone should go out and have maskless parties or pack the nightclubs. I just got my vaccine and even after I have some immunity in a couple of weeks I intend to continue to follow recommendations, wear a mask indoors, etc. But I am definitely going to relax my vigilance a little bit. For example, I've barely set foot in a grocery store since this thing started. It'll be nice to be able to go pick out my produce in person again.

    CelestialBadgerSleepamethystoakDidgeridoowobblyheadedbobredxOrcacaligynefobjimb213
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 7
    wrong thread

    Couscous on
    Sleep
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    OremLK wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Look man if you wanna go out and call it safe while cases are still spiking I'm not gonna stop you going out, but I'm also gonna disagree vehemently with calling it safe.

    It always comes down to watching case counts. Both the number of cases and the case fatality rate. Our personal vaccination status doesn't actually make us totally safe, especially if you're living with folks that aren't vaccinated yet and you like care about em and shit. Just because official restrictions are relaxed doesn't actually mean its fuckin safe to go out and do shit. Official restrictions have been changing almost weekly throughout all of this with constant early openings that resulted in outbreaks and further lockdowns. The status of the restrictions is a useless metric to watch.

    If you want to judge safety you gotta look at case counts and case fatality rate across these openings, and you want those numbers going down. I'm not some ignoramus that thinks we're actually gonna hit 0. We still haven't even totally worked out fuckin polio yet, and covid jumps species too easily. Y'all can stop being condescending silly geese about it, after a year we've all got a basic understanding of the realities. However, while cases are climbing, on the backs of new, more potent, mutations we're unsure of vaccine efficacy against, is not a time to go out and do shit just cause you're vaxxed. Your reasoning here is basically the same reasoning the folks headed to sturgis used. Just cause we can never be 100% safe doesn't mean we're can't look at the correct information to better inform our choices and aim towards general safety. In this case the correct information to look at in order to judge relative safety is case count and case fatality rate, always has been, always will be, and you want to see both of those numbers go down consistently for weeks at a time ideally across restriction relaxations and large gathering holidays.

    Vaccination rate should hopefully causally and positively affect those numbers to enter and maintain a downward trend to a more acceptable floor, but there's still a chance it doesn't, and if it doesn't then that means the vaccinations are a failure at containment and treatment and we need something else. I'm hoping that's not the case, and that very quickly, because of impressively climbing vaccination rates, we do see a notable and significant decline in both cases and case fatality rate. However that still makes them the metrics to watch to determine if things are getting safer, and not our personal vaccination status.

    It's not just about case counts, it's also about outcomes. While it would be nice to stomp this thing into the ground via herd immunity, I'm much more concerned about hospitalizations and deaths. Even though the new cases appear to be plateauing or rising slightly (depending on your region) the death counts generally appear to still be plummeting. It may be that we're going to see them plateau or rise as well in a couple weeks, but then again, maybe not--high percentages of the most vulnerable populations have been vaccinated now.

    Anyway, I'm not saying everyone should go out and have maskless parties or pack the nightclubs. I just got my vaccine and even after I have some immunity in a couple of weeks I intend to continue to follow recommendations, wear a mask indoors, etc. But I am definitely going to relax my vigilance a little bit. For example, I've barely set foot in a grocery store since this thing started. It'll be nice to be able to go pick out my produce in person again.

    Which is why I mentioned case fatality rate, cause the vaccines are thought to make infections that do happen less severe so case fatalities should be less likely as vaccination goes up.

    For me it basically comes down to when kids can get vaccinated. Once one year olds are cleared to get vaccinated my kid will probably be old enough to qualify cause I don't expect that clearance to show up in the next 51 days.

    OremLKwobblyheadedbobJaysonFour
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    First shot got. Second scheduled for Cinco de Mayo. Full efficacy should be achieved five weeks after, so in June I want to get a haircut (it'll have been over a year and a half since I got a haircut), a dentist appointment, an eye exam, and a Mission-style burrito at a restaurant, in no particular order.

    It feels nice to be able to think about planning ahead, even though the last year/four years have made me leery of doing it, like if I get hopeful for anything my hopes will be dashed in the stupidest possible way because of some other jackass.

    JragghenHahnsoo1TynnanRiusTetraNitroCubaneVishNubGiantGeek2020spool32LabellonelyahavaCommander ZoomStarZapperzagdrobGnome-InterruptusTicaldfjamkimeAimElvenshaeJaysonFourFencingsaxEtheaboogedybooAbsoluteZeroPenumbraSkeith
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    First shot got. Second scheduled for Cinco de Mayo. Full efficacy should be achieved five weeks after, so in June I want to get a haircut (it'll have been over a year and a half since I got a haircut), a dentist appointment, an eye exam, and a Mission-style burrito at a restaurant, in no particular order.

    It feels nice to be able to think about planning ahead, even though the last year/four years have made me leery of doing it, like if I get hopeful for anything my hopes will be dashed in the stupidest possible way because of some other jackass.

    Yeah, I'm fuckin stoked for my physical and dental visits I have scheduled for May.

    It's weird.

    VishNubGiantGeek2020
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    First shot got. Second scheduled for Cinco de Mayo. Full efficacy should be achieved five weeks after, so in June I want to get a haircut (it'll have been over a year and a half since I got a haircut), a dentist appointment, an eye exam, and a Mission-style burrito at a restaurant, in no particular order.

    It feels nice to be able to think about planning ahead, even though the last year/four years have made me leery of doing it, like if I get hopeful for anything my hopes will be dashed in the stupidest possible way because of some other jackass.

    5 weeks after the 2nd shot? isn't it just 2 weeks for full effect? Baring any individual health concerns of course.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Has there been any new research on surface transmission.

    I’m soon to be fully vaccinated anyway but I’m just curious. Since early last year, if I had to go outdoors at all, as soon as I came back in I’d basically strip, shower, and change.

    Is that necessary? Was it ever? I’m looking to deprogram myself.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238
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    Playing: Persona 5 Royal (PS4), Animal Crossing (SW), FF7remake (PS4)
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited April 7
    Drez wrote: »
    Has there been any new research on surface transmission.

    I’m soon to be fully vaccinated anyway but I’m just curious. Since early last year, if I had to go outdoors at all, as soon as I came back in I’d basically strip, shower, and change.

    Is that necessary? Was it ever? I’m looking to deprogram myself.

    Actually, yes! Very recently, and from the CDC!
    Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection
    People can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 through contact with surfaces. However, based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors, surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low. The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk.

    So, cleaning stuff is still good. And everyone should keep washing their hands, particularly after touching any surface outside of your bubble. But the risk of infection via surface contact - while nonzero - is pretty low.

    Basically the way this thing is spreading is through the air. It wants in your lungs, rather than anywhere else, and the quantities you are exposed to on surfaces are fleeting. Again, it can still happen, but the 1 in 10,000 chance is much lower than the airborne infection route.

    TetraNitroCubane on
    VuIBhrs.png
    DrezGnome-InterruptusVishNub
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Thank you!

    I think, especially after my second dose, I’ll feel comfortable coming in after a walk outside and sitting at my computer in the same outfit.

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    TetraNitroCubaneAbsoluteZero
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    edited April 7
    Drez wrote: »
    Has there been any new research on surface transmission.

    I’m soon to be fully vaccinated anyway but I’m just curious. Since early last year, if I had to go outdoors at all, as soon as I came back in I’d basically strip, shower, and change.

    Is that necessary? Was it ever? I’m looking to deprogram myself.

    Actually, yes! Very recently, and from the CDC!
    Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection
    People can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 through contact with surfaces. However, based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors, surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low. The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk.

    So, cleaning stuff is still good. And everyone should keep washing their hands, particularly after touching any surface outside of your bubble. But the risk of infection via surface contact - while nonzero - is pretty low.

    Basically the way this thing is spreading is through the air. It wants in your lungs, rather than anywhere else, and the quantities you are exposed to on surfaces are fleeting. Again, it can still happen, but the 1 in 10,000 chance is much lower than the airborne infection route.

    so I am safe licking 9999 doorknobs

    Syngyne on
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  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Has there been any new research on surface transmission.

    I’m soon to be fully vaccinated anyway but I’m just curious. Since early last year, if I had to go outdoors at all, as soon as I came back in I’d basically strip, shower, and change.

    Is that necessary? Was it ever? I’m looking to deprogram myself.

    Actually, yes! Very recently, and from the CDC!
    Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection
    People can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 through contact with surfaces. However, based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors, surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low. The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk.

    So, cleaning stuff is still good. And everyone should keep washing their hands, particularly after touching any surface outside of your bubble. But the risk of infection via surface contact - while nonzero - is pretty low.

    Basically the way this thing is spreading is through the air. It wants in your lungs, rather than anywhere else, and the quantities you are exposed to on surfaces are fleeting. Again, it can still happen, but the 1 in 10,000 chance is much lower than the airborne infection route.

    Note that it actually says lower than < 1 in 10,000. It's odds of surface transmission are so astronomically low they can barely calculate it. So yes, washing hands is still good practice, but full body decontamination after going to a store is probably unnecessary.

    Gnome-InterruptusTetraNitroCubaneTynnan
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    .
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Has there been any new research on surface transmission.

    I’m soon to be fully vaccinated anyway but I’m just curious. Since early last year, if I had to go outdoors at all, as soon as I came back in I’d basically strip, shower, and change.

    Is that necessary? Was it ever? I’m looking to deprogram myself.

    Actually, yes! Very recently, and from the CDC!
    Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection
    People can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 through contact with surfaces. However, based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors, surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low. The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk.

    So, cleaning stuff is still good. And everyone should keep washing their hands, particularly after touching any surface outside of your bubble. But the risk of infection via surface contact - while nonzero - is pretty low.

    Basically the way this thing is spreading is through the air. It wants in your lungs, rather than anywhere else, and the quantities you are exposed to on surfaces are fleeting. Again, it can still happen, but the 1 in 10,000 chance is much lower than the airborne infection route.

    so I am safe licking 9999 doorknobs

    But what if you lick the 10,000th doorknob first?

    VuIBhrs.png
    Rhesus PositiveDoctor DetroitAbsoluteZeroKayne Red RobeMichaelLC
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    Also keep in mind that even if you were going to pick up the virus through surface transmission, it would likely be through a lot of virus getting on your hands (i.e. touching a surface an infected person sneezed directly onto recently) then touching your eyes/nose before washing your hands. So just being outside is incredibly unlikely to give you the virus.

    OremLK on
    redxTetraNitroCubaneKetarJaysonFourFencingsaxGnome-Interruptus
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    tl;dr everyone was doing a lot of guessing this time last year.

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  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    So, forgive me if there has already been plenty of discussion on this, i scrolled back 15 pages and didnt find it.

    If one has the opportunity to get J and J or an mRNA vax, should they really try to get one or the other? Ive seen the effectiveness numbers, and the caveats about different times and places, and the caveats about numbers not relating to serious illness, and i understand the pjblic health need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible. But all that being said, different time and place doesnt really feel like ot would account for 20x reduced chance to 3x reduced chance, does it? Esp since during the J and J trials, the variants were still not that prevalent.

    Does anyone have any compelling info on this, beyond the points i cited above? Points that may relate to an individual's decision for their family, rather than considering the public health initiative as top priority?

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I'd get whatever I can get my hands on soonest, end of story.

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  • asurasur Registered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    So, forgive me if there has already been plenty of discussion on this, i scrolled back 15 pages and didnt find it.

    If one has the opportunity to get J and J or an mRNA vax, should they really try to get one or the other? Ive seen the effectiveness numbers, and the caveats about different times and places, and the caveats about numbers not relating to serious illness, and i understand the pjblic health need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible. But all that being said, different time and place doesnt really feel like ot would account for 20x reduced chance to 3x reduced chance, does it? Esp since during the J and J trials, the variants were still not that prevalent.

    Does anyone have any compelling info on this, beyond the points i cited above? Points that may relate to an individual's decision for their family, rather than considering the public health initiative as top priority?

    The J&J vaccine has variants included in it's trials by default as they were conducted in the US, Brazil and South Africa. If anything those trials give a better picture of the response than either mRNA vaccine though I believe you can find decent following research for those. The other compelling point is that J&J was 100% effective against hospitalization and death which are the primary factors to consider.

    Librarian's ghostSoggybiscuitOremLKMortal SkytinwhiskersElvenshaeAphostileAbsoluteZero
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    asur wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    So, forgive me if there has already been plenty of discussion on this, i scrolled back 15 pages and didnt find it.

    If one has the opportunity to get J and J or an mRNA vax, should they really try to get one or the other? Ive seen the effectiveness numbers, and the caveats about different times and places, and the caveats about numbers not relating to serious illness, and i understand the pjblic health need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible. But all that being said, different time and place doesnt really feel like ot would account for 20x reduced chance to 3x reduced chance, does it? Esp since during the J and J trials, the variants were still not that prevalent.

    Does anyone have any compelling info on this, beyond the points i cited above? Points that may relate to an individual's decision for their family, rather than considering the public health initiative as top priority?

    The J&J vaccine has variants included in it's trials by default as they were conducted in the US, Brazil and South Africa. If anything those trials give a better picture of the response than either mRNA vaccine though I believe you can find decent following research for those. The other compelling point is that J&J was 100% effective against hospitalization and death which are the primary factors to consider.

    J&J is 1 and done. That's very attractive from a "I just want this to be done." point of view, particularly if you are on the fence about your local vaccine infrastructure or are having to travel to get your shot. Efficacy wise, they are pretty comparable.

    You still have to wait for full effectiveness either way, but not having to wait for the second shot, and potentially hunt that down, and take another chunk of time off, seems nice.

    This machine kills threads.
    OremLK
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Pfizer in my body. I am upset that cell reception in the waiting room after the shot was still terrible.

    Black lives matter.
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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pfizer in my body. I am upset that cell reception in the waiting room after the shot was still terrible.

    It's german developed vaccine, so it only works with Deutsche Telekom/T-Mobile.

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pfizer in my body. I am upset that cell reception in the waiting room after the shot was still terrible.

    It only appears that way to get you to upgrade to 5g.

    GiantGeek2020GONG-00TicaldfjamElvenshaeMrVyngaardSpoitAbsoluteZero
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    asur wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    So, forgive me if there has already been plenty of discussion on this, i scrolled back 15 pages and didnt find it.

    If one has the opportunity to get J and J or an mRNA vax, should they really try to get one or the other? Ive seen the effectiveness numbers, and the caveats about different times and places, and the caveats about numbers not relating to serious illness, and i understand the pjblic health need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible. But all that being said, different time and place doesnt really feel like ot would account for 20x reduced chance to 3x reduced chance, does it? Esp since during the J and J trials, the variants were still not that prevalent.

    Does anyone have any compelling info on this, beyond the points i cited above? Points that may relate to an individual's decision for their family, rather than considering the public health initiative as top priority?

    The J&J vaccine has variants included in it's trials by default as they were conducted in the US, Brazil and South Africa. If anything those trials give a better picture of the response than either mRNA vaccine though I believe you can find decent following research for those. The other compelling point is that J&J was 100% effective against hospitalization and death which are the primary factors to consider.

    J&J is 1 and done. That's very attractive from a "I just want this to be done." point of view, particularly if you are on the fence about your local vaccine infrastructure or are having to travel to get your shot. Efficacy wise, they are pretty comparable.

    You still have to wait for full effectiveness either way, but not having to wait for the second shot, and potentially hunt that down, and take another chunk of time off, seems nice.

    Yeah, that was why I went for J&J (I had my choice between all three). Couple more weeks for my immunity to build up and I can breathe a lot easier. Would have to wait longer and deal with driving way out to the suburbs again if it had been one of the mRNA ones.

  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Found out that scheduling the 2nd shot to different location from where I got the first shot (an hour and a half away) is...frowned upon. So I guess I got a long drive ahead of me on May 1st! Gonna drag my wife along so she can drive me back in case I get tired or something.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    Mc zany wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pfizer in my body. I am upset that cell reception in the waiting room after the shot was still terrible.

    It only appears that way to get you to upgrade to 5g.

    But 5G causes conspiratitis!

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  • MosatiMosati Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Found out that scheduling the 2nd shot to different location from where I got the first shot (an hour and a half away) is...frowned upon. So I guess I got a long drive ahead of me on May 1st! Gonna drag my wife along so she can drive me back in case I get tired or something.

    Just tell them its your first shot

  • DrowsDrows Registered User regular
    For the vaccines that have two doses, are the first and second identical? In terms of what's in it, size, etc.

  • MosatiMosati Registered User regular
    Drows wrote: »
    For the vaccines that have two doses, are the first and second identical? In terms of what's in it, size, etc.

    Second dose, same as the first

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Mosati wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Found out that scheduling the 2nd shot to different location from where I got the first shot (an hour and a half away) is...frowned upon. So I guess I got a long drive ahead of me on May 1st! Gonna drag my wife along so she can drive me back in case I get tired or something.

    Just tell them its your first shot

    Don’t do that. Help the state and providers keep their records straight.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Mosati wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Found out that scheduling the 2nd shot to different location from where I got the first shot (an hour and a half away) is...frowned upon. So I guess I got a long drive ahead of me on May 1st! Gonna drag my wife along so she can drive me back in case I get tired or something.

    Just tell them its your first shot

    Don’t do that. Help the state and providers keep their records straight.

    Also when countries add blanket proof of vaccination entry requirements you'll probably have an easier time

    VishNubElvenshaeAbsoluteZero
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Looks like Australia done fucked up, and will remain fucked for the long term (comparatively to similar countries).

    Prime Minister. - We're going all in on AstraZeneca.
    PM - Europe are holding back our doses, and we've got no Plan B.
    Europe - No, we're not.
    PM - Yes you are, and we still have no Plan B.
    Europe - No we're not.
    PM - Yeah, we're not comfortable with the potential health risks of AstraZeneca. Also, we don't have a Plan B.

    So now, who knows. There's little risk to the population as long as we maintain reasonable protections (~10-20 daily cases since October, 2 total deaths). But knowing there's no end in sight, is frustrating.

    I was initially looking at hoping to get the jab in July/August, so I can travel in October/November. That idea is pretty much fucked. I have family in the US I haven't seen since 2019, and 2021 is probably out, because our conservative party (who have not been bad during the pandemic) have finally let their incompetence shine on through (also their misogyny, but that's another issue).

  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    It's been 1 week since my 2nd jab. Just 1 week to go until I can get back to something resembling normal. I can't wait!

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  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    All these countries pulling back on AstraZeneca really makes no sense, and is the height of priviledge. Yes they've been linked to some very, very rare blood clot problems in less than 1 out of 100,000. Inoculating the population against Covid is far more important from a public health view. I guess at least this means more shots available for the poorer countries though, so there's a silver lining to it.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    StarZapper wrote: »
    All these countries pulling back on AstraZeneca really makes no sense, and is the height of priviledge. Yes they've been linked to some very, very rare blood clot problems in less than 1 out of 100,000. Inoculating the population against Covid is far more important from a public health view. I guess at least this means more shots available for the poorer countries though, so there's a silver lining to it.

    Australia is 25 million people. Say 80% vaccination rate, 20 million doses, 200 complications. Australia has done a fantastic job and only had 900 people die across the entire pandemic so far, they can conceivably wait and get a vaccine with fewer complications and have fewer people die

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  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    asur wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    So, forgive me if there has already been plenty of discussion on this, i scrolled back 15 pages and didnt find it.

    If one has the opportunity to get J and J or an mRNA vax, should they really try to get one or the other? Ive seen the effectiveness numbers, and the caveats about different times and places, and the caveats about numbers not relating to serious illness, and i understand the pjblic health need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible. But all that being said, different time and place doesnt really feel like ot would account for 20x reduced chance to 3x reduced chance, does it? Esp since during the J and J trials, the variants were still not that prevalent.

    Does anyone have any compelling info on this, beyond the points i cited above? Points that may relate to an individual's decision for their family, rather than considering the public health initiative as top priority?

    The J&J vaccine has variants included in it's trials by default as they were conducted in the US, Brazil and South Africa. If anything those trials give a better picture of the response than either mRNA vaccine though I believe you can find decent following research for those. The other compelling point is that J&J was 100% effective against hospitalization and death which are the primary factors to consider.

    J&J is 1 and done. That's very attractive from a "I just want this to be done." point of view, particularly if you are on the fence about your local vaccine infrastructure or are having to travel to get your shot. Efficacy wise, they are pretty comparable.

    You still have to wait for full effectiveness either way, but not having to wait for the second shot, and potentially hunt that down, and take another chunk of time off, seems nice.

    See, im not sure i really believe that their effectiveness is comparable. I know the efficacy numbers dont tell the whole story, but mathematically, a small fraction of variants in the population shouldnt account for the big drop on measured effectiveness. Also, they keep saying J and J focused on reducing moderate to sever infection, while mRNA focused on reducing symptomatic infection, which sounds to me like J and J was actually being judged on an easier standard.

    I keep seeing that the numbers are "not comparable", which I'm fine with at face, but its normal to try and do some adjusting to make it comparable. I feel like all of the messaging around "just get whatever! There are caveats to the measurements!" Is very different than saying "they prob would have performed about the same" had the trials been done the same way. Which I'm not seeing.

    Like i said, i understand the public health motivation to get everyone some vax ASAP, and i find the convenience of J and J nice, but I wouldn't really want to go into the future with a lowered degree of immunity, and just saying "the trials were conducted differently, we can't compare" just isn't the same as "the trials were conducted differently, they are prob about the same".

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