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[Fitness and Weight Management] Let's crush some 2022 goals!

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    The more interesting question is which calorie restricting diets require the least willpower to maintain

    My personal preference is not to cut foods out, just eat less of the bad ones. So like instead of a candy bar, ill have a square of actual good chocolate.

    I usually track by week, so if I went something bad early in the week i need to be diligent the remainder, or if it's in the back half I look at how I've done so far and make my decision based on that. My "bad" nights are usually Friday and Saturday, so I be learned to be a bit leaner during the week to account for that.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Cello wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The more interesting question is which calorie restricting diets require the least willpower to maintain

    This is going to vary person to person depending on tastes.

    For me the easiest way is intermittent fasting, I find it much easier to just not eat than eat a small amount throughout the day. And then I find it hard to over eat in the 4ish hour eating window I give myself.

    However, in contrast, this approach would be absolutely disastrous for my wife because fasting really seems to negatively impact her mood and she is a very slow eater that gets full easily, so getting in a reasonable number of calories in 4 hours would be a huge chore for her.

    It’s super subjective.

    Also:

    While the number one factor that controls weight is diet, I do highly recommend regular (daily if possible) exercise for everyone (including things like walking). The calories burned are nice and all, but, purely from a mental and physical well being perspective working out is amazing. It also does wonders for your overall energy levels.

    I’d also generally advise, unless you have a very specific reason to be doing so (upcoming event, tournament, etc) to generally avoid “smokers” when working out. By that I mean exercising when you go so hard via intensity or weight or duration that you feel wrecked and are unable to workout the next day.

    Ideally, your workouts should be something you could do every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year if needs be. That’s a great target intensity for most folks. And, you’ll get a lot more total reps/volume in if you workout in a way that always leaves something in the tank, vs training that leaves you incapacitated for days.

    Inquisitor on
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The more interesting question is which calorie restricting diets require the least willpower to maintain

    This is going to vary person to person depending on tastes.

    For me the easiest way is intermittent fasting, I find it much easier to just not eat than eat a small amount throughout the day. And then I find it hard to over eat in the 4ish hour eating window I give myself.

    However, in contrast, this approach would be absolutely disastrous for my wife because fasting really seems to negatively impact her mood and she is a very slow eater that gets full easily, so getting in a reasonable number of calories in 4 hours would be a huge chore for her.

    It’s super subjective.

    Also:

    While the number one factor that controls weight is diet, I do highly recommend regular (daily if possible) exercise for everyone (including things like walking). The calories burned are nice and all, but, purely from a mental and physical well being perspective working out is amazing. It also does wonders for your overall energy levels.

    I’d also generally advise, unless you have a very specific reason to be doing so (upcoming event, tournament, etc) to generally avoid “smokers” when working out. By that I mean exercising when you go so hard via intensity or weight or duration that you feel wrecked and are unable to workout the next day.

    Ideally, your workouts should be something you could do every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year if needs be. That’s a great target intensity for most folks. And, you’ll get a lot more total reps/volume in if you workout in a way that always leaves something in the tank, vs training that leaves you incapacitated for days.

    I don't necessarily agree with that last part. At some point to continue past beginner gains from your body adapting to exercise your probably going to have to go hard, and require rest days. Not to say that you'll be destroyed on those days, but you wouldn't want to work out at that intensity every day.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The more interesting question is which calorie restricting diets require the least willpower to maintain

    This is going to vary person to person depending on tastes.

    For me the easiest way is intermittent fasting, I find it much easier to just not eat than eat a small amount throughout the day. And then I find it hard to over eat in the 4ish hour eating window I give myself.

    However, in contrast, this approach would be absolutely disastrous for my wife because fasting really seems to negatively impact her mood and she is a very slow eater that gets full easily, so getting in a reasonable number of calories in 4 hours would be a huge chore for her.

    It’s super subjective.

    Also:

    While the number one factor that controls weight is diet, I do highly recommend regular (daily if possible) exercise for everyone (including things like walking). The calories burned are nice and all, but, purely from a mental and physical well being perspective working out is amazing. It also does wonders for your overall energy levels.

    I’d also generally advise, unless you have a very specific reason to be doing so (upcoming event, tournament, etc) to generally avoid “smokers” when working out. By that I mean exercising when you go so hard via intensity or weight or duration that you feel wrecked and are unable to workout the next day.

    Ideally, your workouts should be something you could do every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year if needs be. That’s a great target intensity for most folks. And, you’ll get a lot more total reps/volume in if you workout in a way that always leaves something in the tank, vs training that leaves you incapacitated for days.

    I don't necessarily agree with that last part. At some point to continue past beginner gains from your body adapting to exercise your probably going to have to go hard, and require rest days. Not to say that you'll be destroyed on those days, but you wouldn't want to work out at that intensity every day.

    I’ll disagree, and cite the very successful strength building routines of coaches such as Dan John. Though I may find a need to switch it up if I ever reach his peak or squatting 4 sets of 5 at 400lbs.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    I mean there's low intensity exercises you can do daily e.g. walking a reasonable distance with little issue

    But like, there are plenty of studies into hypertrophy that indicate the best results come from lifting heavy, and separating lifting days by a rest day to allow your muscles to heal

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    That rest days, as in proper rest days, are optimum for hypertrophy and muscle building, skill acquisition, etc, is not really up for debate. It is scientifically evidenced

    If your workout is low intensity, then you can do it every day. You could bench every day, with light weights, and you would get stronger. You'd get much stronger much faster if you benched three times a week with heavy weights in a proper program.

    Solar on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    I mean there's low intensity exercises you can do daily e.g. walking a reasonable distance with little issue

    But like, there are plenty of studies into hypertrophy that indicate the best results come from lifting heavy, and separating lifting days by a rest day to allow your muscles to heal

    Isn't that why people will do strength training for one part of the body one day, then another part the next, and another part the next, etc? So that while you're still exercising every day, you're giving the muscles that got worked the days prior a rest?

    That's how I was taught, anyways, but it could have been wrong or it could be outdated info at the point. There's so much information about exercise that it's hard for me to know what's correct, what's wrong, etc.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    I mean there's low intensity exercises you can do daily e.g. walking a reasonable distance with little issue

    But like, there are plenty of studies into hypertrophy that indicate the best results come from lifting heavy, and separating lifting days by a rest day to allow your muscles to heal

    Certainly, but lifting heavy doesn’t preclude leaving one or more reps in the tank, and it doesn’t mean doing your 1 rep max either. You can lift heavy without being unable to walk the next day.

    And a workout intensity that you could do in day out doesn’t mean you should do it everyday either, just that you potentially could, in terms of target intensity. (Recovery is good, as is variety just for not getting bored, after all).

    My focus is more on strength than hypertrophy, to be fair (hypertrophy is somewhat detrimental to some of my goals) but my understanding is that hypertrophy is more strongly linked with time under tension than heavy weights.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    You absolutely should have more reps in the tank most (but not all) of the time. But rest days are key, absolutely key, to maximising strength.

    With all due respect, I know you are in good shape and have made many successful improvements in your strength, butnit is not at all optimal for a strength gain program to see you do the same movements every day. This is something any competent coach or sport scientist will say and be able to cite extensive evidence as to why.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Also massive guys who bench five days a week and make huge gains all the time are on an ass-load of drugs so just keep that in mind too.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Since MyFitnessPal seems to have locked down a lot of the previous free functionality, what tracking apps do y'all rate these days (free would be nice, but I get that's not always a thing anymore)

    Chronometer I see thrown around a lot in my lifting Discord as a free option that is also nice for if you simply want to track macros; I personally am getting a lot out of MacroFactor but it's paid
    Do yall think maybe trying to reduce my calorie intake a bunch without also increasing my exercise much if at all has been kind of counter productive?

    Thing is cutting my calorie goal lower seems impossible every time I try it as I just don't have much energy to focus on the logging and prepping meals, and I often crash and burn ending up hitting a day where I eat pretty much everything in my home because I just get so painfully hungry.

    Before when I've had success it's been both eating habits and exercise at the same time, the main barrier to that for me right now is I'm so out of shape that even walking around my little apartment can be pretty hard some days and I just don't know anything else that I'll have an easy time sticking too besides walking because I really don't enjoy exercise that I can't really zone out for, it makes it all the more agonizing having to really focus to keep my balance and breathing like with yoga, or just makes me too sweaty to wear headphones like any kind of bodyweight strength stuff. Plus the effect of number go up just isn't there for me the same way, so it's hard to stay motivated.

    Working out basically just reduces the size of the gap you need to cut to lose a certain number of pounds a week (e.g. you can do very little exercise and cut approx 500 calories a day (though this is an average and not the same for everyone), or you could go for a 250 calorie walk and cut 250 calories, and probably lose the same amount of weight). Important to be cautious with this to not land on some disordered thinking of working out being directly correlated with eating more/creating an unhealthy focus on exercise, mind (this is one big issue with Noom for example).

    Exercise helps with keeping you on target for food goals by introducing healthy habits, reducing muscle loss as you cut calories, heart health and cardiovascular health, reduces depression symptoms, etc.

    Have you considered swimming? It's much more low impact and easier on the joints. You might be more comfortable with that if you're experiencing pain with other exercise.

    The pain I experience with exercise is mostly not joint related, though some of it is certainly unused muscles that have gotten weak. That's mostly my low back.

    It's mostly shortness of breath and reaching an exhaustion point more quickly than I should. They are testing me soon for possible anemia, vitamin d deficiency, h1ac and thyroid levels to make sure none of that is doing it. I would describe it as like quickly hitting a point at which my body feels like I'm going to fall over from lack of energy, burning muscle sensation everywhere, shortness of breath, and after resting getting super hungry.

    Like even going around the grocery store to shop has gotten almost impossible for me which is frustrating because there isn't much I can do to accommodate for that new limitation. Grocery pickup orders aren't an option for some various reasons and my mom can't be our grocery shopper much longer with her hips acting up.

    Anyway I was mostly thinking that without being able to get around I'm not just depressed but my energy levels are low for even doing mental tasks like tracking calories and such, and for some reason the more active I am the less hungry I used to get.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Since MyFitnessPal seems to have locked down a lot of the previous free functionality, what tracking apps do y'all rate these days (free would be nice, but I get that's not always a thing anymore)

    Chronometer I see thrown around a lot in my lifting Discord as a free option that is also nice for if you simply want to track macros; I personally am getting a lot out of MacroFactor but it's paid
    Do yall think maybe trying to reduce my calorie intake a bunch without also increasing my exercise much if at all has been kind of counter productive?

    Thing is cutting my calorie goal lower seems impossible every time I try it as I just don't have much energy to focus on the logging and prepping meals, and I often crash and burn ending up hitting a day where I eat pretty much everything in my home because I just get so painfully hungry.

    Before when I've had success it's been both eating habits and exercise at the same time, the main barrier to that for me right now is I'm so out of shape that even walking around my little apartment can be pretty hard some days and I just don't know anything else that I'll have an easy time sticking too besides walking because I really don't enjoy exercise that I can't really zone out for, it makes it all the more agonizing having to really focus to keep my balance and breathing like with yoga, or just makes me too sweaty to wear headphones like any kind of bodyweight strength stuff. Plus the effect of number go up just isn't there for me the same way, so it's hard to stay motivated.

    Working out basically just reduces the size of the gap you need to cut to lose a certain number of pounds a week (e.g. you can do very little exercise and cut approx 500 calories a day (though this is an average and not the same for everyone), or you could go for a 250 calorie walk and cut 250 calories, and probably lose the same amount of weight). Important to be cautious with this to not land on some disordered thinking of working out being directly correlated with eating more/creating an unhealthy focus on exercise, mind (this is one big issue with Noom for example).

    Exercise helps with keeping you on target for food goals by introducing healthy habits, reducing muscle loss as you cut calories, heart health and cardiovascular health, reduces depression symptoms, etc.

    Have you considered swimming? It's much more low impact and easier on the joints. You might be more comfortable with that if you're experiencing pain with other exercise.

    The pain I experience with exercise is mostly not joint related, though some of it is certainly unused muscles that have gotten weak. That's mostly my low back.

    It's mostly shortness of breath and reaching an exhaustion point more quickly than I should. They are testing me soon for possible anemia, vitamin d deficiency, h1ac and thyroid levels to make sure none of that is doing it. I would describe it as like quickly hitting a point at which my body feels like I'm going to fall over from lack of energy, burning muscle sensation everywhere, shortness of breath, and after resting getting super hungry.

    Like even going around the grocery store to shop has gotten almost impossible for me which is frustrating because there isn't much I can do to accommodate for that new limitation. Grocery pickup orders aren't an option for some various reasons and my mom can't be our grocery shopper much longer with her hips acting up.

    Anyway I was mostly thinking that without being able to get around I'm not just depressed but my energy levels are low for even doing mental tasks like tracking calories and such, and for some reason the more active I am the less hungry I used to get.

    To be honest this is probably the degree where internet advice isn't going to be as valuable as talking to a professional (your doctor, a physiotherapist, etc) who can assess you and give you exercises that are safe for you to do

    You're just gonna get better results that way, plus the accountability of going to somebody who will keep you on track

    Steam
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah I think we would be wrong to pretend to know how to solve a health issue like that, in the same way that when anyone gets injured we always say "see a physio"

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Since MyFitnessPal seems to have locked down a lot of the previous free functionality, what tracking apps do y'all rate these days (free would be nice, but I get that's not always a thing anymore)

    Chronometer I see thrown around a lot in my lifting Discord as a free option that is also nice for if you simply want to track macros; I personally am getting a lot out of MacroFactor but it's paid
    Do yall think maybe trying to reduce my calorie intake a bunch without also increasing my exercise much if at all has been kind of counter productive?

    Thing is cutting my calorie goal lower seems impossible every time I try it as I just don't have much energy to focus on the logging and prepping meals, and I often crash and burn ending up hitting a day where I eat pretty much everything in my home because I just get so painfully hungry.

    Before when I've had success it's been both eating habits and exercise at the same time, the main barrier to that for me right now is I'm so out of shape that even walking around my little apartment can be pretty hard some days and I just don't know anything else that I'll have an easy time sticking too besides walking because I really don't enjoy exercise that I can't really zone out for, it makes it all the more agonizing having to really focus to keep my balance and breathing like with yoga, or just makes me too sweaty to wear headphones like any kind of bodyweight strength stuff. Plus the effect of number go up just isn't there for me the same way, so it's hard to stay motivated.

    Working out basically just reduces the size of the gap you need to cut to lose a certain number of pounds a week (e.g. you can do very little exercise and cut approx 500 calories a day (though this is an average and not the same for everyone), or you could go for a 250 calorie walk and cut 250 calories, and probably lose the same amount of weight). Important to be cautious with this to not land on some disordered thinking of working out being directly correlated with eating more/creating an unhealthy focus on exercise, mind (this is one big issue with Noom for example).

    Exercise helps with keeping you on target for food goals by introducing healthy habits, reducing muscle loss as you cut calories, heart health and cardiovascular health, reduces depression symptoms, etc.

    Have you considered swimming? It's much more low impact and easier on the joints. You might be more comfortable with that if you're experiencing pain with other exercise.

    The pain I experience with exercise is mostly not joint related, though some of it is certainly unused muscles that have gotten weak. That's mostly my low back.

    It's mostly shortness of breath and reaching an exhaustion point more quickly than I should. They are testing me soon for possible anemia, vitamin d deficiency, h1ac and thyroid levels to make sure none of that is doing it. I would describe it as like quickly hitting a point at which my body feels like I'm going to fall over from lack of energy, burning muscle sensation everywhere, shortness of breath, and after resting getting super hungry.

    Like even going around the grocery store to shop has gotten almost impossible for me which is frustrating because there isn't much I can do to accommodate for that new limitation. Grocery pickup orders aren't an option for some various reasons and my mom can't be our grocery shopper much longer with her hips acting up.

    Anyway I was mostly thinking that without being able to get around I'm not just depressed but my energy levels are low for even doing mental tasks like tracking calories and such, and for some reason the more active I am the less hungry I used to get.

    To be honest this is probably the degree where internet advice isn't going to be as valuable as talking to a professional (your doctor, a physiotherapist, etc) who can assess you and give you exercises that are safe for you to do

    You're just gonna get better results that way, plus the accountability of going to somebody who will keep you on track

    This is true

    I need a doctor that's more responsive though tbh

    My doctor basically doesn't do anything but order the same bloodwork twice a year

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    You absolutely should have more reps in the tank most (but not all) of the time. But rest days are key, absolutely key, to maximising strength.

    With all due respect, I know you are in good shape and have made many successful improvements in your strength, butnit is not at all optimal for a strength gain program to see you do the same movements every day. This is something any competent coach or sport scientist will say and be able to cite extensive evidence as to why.

    I mean, everything I have said so far in the thread today is basically mental notes from a book from someone who is (to my knowledge) considered to be a successful strength coach (Dan John) that I read while flying back from a work onsite last weekend.

    Said book referenced a lot of sports scientists. Mostly Russians, though so, may be a point to your on an “ass-load of drugs” statement.

    That said, it was Russian sports science for a good whole to not go over like, 80% of your 1RM until right before a competition, focusing on volume and frequency of training. (That said, yes, usually a day between lifts, but each lift session left you in a state able to do some other exercise on the days inbetween).

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    It really kinda sucks

    All the good doctors in the area I have found aren't accepting new patients and last time I looked into switching doctors it was a huge pain in the ass and also they were way too far away across the river in Perrysburg halfway to my mom's place.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Well I would say that;

    1) You do need to consider volume and frequency, but as you said, rest days after heavy lifts are important even if you do something else, and often even that is not optimal. Your body needs to recover, it only has so many resources.

    2) drugs change everything. If those are the Russian, soviet-era massive studies that everyone uses (because they were so much better than any other studies) then yes the information is good but the qualifier is; they were all of them, all of them, on drugs. As are most top level athletes imo. But anyway. Point is; they can have three sessions a day six days a week, with half being heavy days, because their piss is the colour of coca-cola and they are shaking with the amount of dbol in the system. Unless you're doing that, you can't.

    3) I am sure Dan John is a cool guy but if he legitimately believes the best way to improve your, say, backsquat is to do it every day then I'm 100% prepared to say he's wrong, with all due respect.

    Solar on
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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Winter is coming.

    The November to January stretch is always the roughest for me between the holidays and the long, cold nights meaning all I want to do is stay in bed all day.

    Yeah, I fucking hate cold weather so goddamned much. If it could just never drop below 80F that'd be perfect, thanks.

    Instead it was 27F when I left the house to go to the gym this morning and I prayed for death. Instead i was forced to live, so I did bi's and tri's today, and it's the second time ever I've been able to do 20lb dumbbells for all of my sets and not have to drop down to 15s!

    I also did some dumbbell rows since my physical therapy started including them, and 20lbs seems like a good place for those too. Could probably do more, but since I'm still relatively new to a lot of these exercises I'd rather start with something more manageable so I can work on form and making sure I'm doing it right before I start seeing what my limits are.

    I'm the exact opposite. 80F is where all life starts draining from me.
    Darmak wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    I mean there's low intensity exercises you can do daily e.g. walking a reasonable distance with little issue

    But like, there are plenty of studies into hypertrophy that indicate the best results come from lifting heavy, and separating lifting days by a rest day to allow your muscles to heal

    Isn't that why people will do strength training for one part of the body one day, then another part the next, and another part the next, etc? So that while you're still exercising every day, you're giving the muscles that got worked the days prior a rest?

    That's how I was taught, anyways, but it could have been wrong or it could be outdated info at the point. There's so much information about exercise that it's hard for me to know what's correct, what's wrong, etc.

    We know more now. Rest day means rest, not different activity. Lots of people smarter than me that train endurance athletes point to polarized training, where you spend most days at zone 1-2 (generally under 140 or so bpm hr wise) and maybe two days a week doing max HR workouts.
    Your body can never build if you're constantly hurting it, even if it's a different muscle group.
    That said - constant training can be useful when you're approaching elite skills as it's more skill building than strength building (Solar would be a good example of someone doing this)

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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Lifting nattering:
    Now's when we get down into the nitty gritty of the thing because the kind of lifting that one is doing makes an enormous difference to the frequency conversation. Olympic weightlifters, which Dan John primarily coached (and some track and field stuff, yes), do lift at least once a day and often twice (at the elite level) because their two lifts (squat and clean 'n jerk) are very technical and also don't involve the eccentric (lowering) part of the lift, they blow everything up and then drop it, and studies have shown that the eccentric portion of a lift causes more muscle damage (and needs more recovery time and is arguably better for hypertrophy).

    Powerlifters, focusing on the squat/bench/deadlift, will do the main lifts multiple times each week (usually, especially when they're drug free) and vary the intensity and rep ranges but they wouldn't do one of the major lifts on back to back days (monday and tuesday, thursday and friday, etc) because those kinds of compound lifts are extremely taxing in any program designed to increase your strength or induce hypertrophy and you absolutely need recovery time between sessions to maximize your results.

    Bodybuilders, doing true isolation exercises, can and do work out every day and break up their body into muscle groups that they work individually but again you wouldn't do biceps on a Monday and do biceps again on a Tuesday, for the purposes of recovery.

    Your muscles grow and your brain learns on off days, you've got to put some time between lifting sessions for any given lift for it to have its best effect.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Peen wrote: »
    Lifting nattering:
    Now's when we get down into the nitty gritty of the thing because the kind of lifting that one is doing makes an enormous difference to the frequency conversation. Olympic weightlifters, which Dan John primarily coached (and some track and field stuff, yes), do lift at least once a day and often twice (at the elite level) because their two lifts (squat and clean 'n jerk) are very technical and also don't involve the eccentric (lowering) part of the lift, they blow everything up and then drop it, and studies have shown that the eccentric portion of a lift causes more muscle damage (and needs more recovery time and is arguably better for hypertrophy).

    Powerlifters, focusing on the squat/bench/deadlift, will do the main lifts multiple times each week (usually, especially when they're drug free) and vary the intensity and rep ranges but they wouldn't do one of the major lifts on back to back days (monday and tuesday, thursday and friday, etc) because those kinds of compound lifts are extremely taxing in any program designed to increase your strength or induce hypertrophy and you absolutely need recovery time between sessions to maximize your results.

    Bodybuilders, doing true isolation exercises, can and do work out every day and break up their body into muscle groups that they work individually but again you wouldn't do biceps on a Monday and do biceps again on a Tuesday, for the purposes of recovery.

    Your muscles grow and your brain learns on off days, you've got to put some time between lifting sessions for any given lift for it to have its best effect.

    I appreciate your insight here, as the finer differences between olympic lifting, power lifting and body building are somewhat lost on me. The idea that dropping the weight makes such a difference , vs lowering it, is not something I had really considered. But I guess that does generally track with the idea of time under tension and hypertrophy.

    Olympic Weightlifting seems fun but I have to imagine that everyone in the gym would hate the amount of noise created by dropping weights.

    Inquisitor on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    People tend to do it in specific gyms really

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Lifting nattering:
    Now's when we get down into the nitty gritty of the thing because the kind of lifting that one is doing makes an enormous difference to the frequency conversation. Olympic weightlifters, which Dan John primarily coached (and some track and field stuff, yes), do lift at least once a day and often twice (at the elite level) because their two lifts (squat and clean 'n jerk) are very technical and also don't involve the eccentric (lowering) part of the lift, they blow everything up and then drop it, and studies have shown that the eccentric portion of a lift causes more muscle damage (and needs more recovery time and is arguably better for hypertrophy).

    Powerlifters, focusing on the squat/bench/deadlift, will do the main lifts multiple times each week (usually, especially when they're drug free) and vary the intensity and rep ranges but they wouldn't do one of the major lifts on back to back days (monday and tuesday, thursday and friday, etc) because those kinds of compound lifts are extremely taxing in any program designed to increase your strength or induce hypertrophy and you absolutely need recovery time between sessions to maximize your results.

    Bodybuilders, doing true isolation exercises, can and do work out every day and break up their body into muscle groups that they work individually but again you wouldn't do biceps on a Monday and do biceps again on a Tuesday, for the purposes of recovery.

    Your muscles grow and your brain learns on off days, you've got to put some time between lifting sessions for any given lift for it to have its best effect.

    I appreciate your insight here, as the finer differences between olympic lifting, power lifting and body building are somewhat lost on me. The idea that dropping the weight makes such a difference , vs lowering it, is not something I had really considered. But I guess that does generally track with the idea of time under tension and hypertrophy.

    Olympic Weightlifting seems fun but I have to imagine that everyone in the gym would hate the amount of noise created by dropping weights.

    With bumper plates its not that loud. It's more a thump that you feel in your feet. People banging weights on a cable machine is far more annoying.

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    Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    I should record what it sounds like to have a room with 10+ people doing a workout like Grace at the same time (30 clean and jerk @ 135lbs for time). Just a cacophony of BANG BANG BANG

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Lifting nattering:
    Now's when we get down into the nitty gritty of the thing because the kind of lifting that one is doing makes an enormous difference to the frequency conversation. Olympic weightlifters, which Dan John primarily coached (and some track and field stuff, yes), do lift at least once a day and often twice (at the elite level) because their two lifts (squat and clean 'n jerk) are very technical and also don't involve the eccentric (lowering) part of the lift, they blow everything up and then drop it, and studies have shown that the eccentric portion of a lift causes more muscle damage (and needs more recovery time and is arguably better for hypertrophy).

    Powerlifters, focusing on the squat/bench/deadlift, will do the main lifts multiple times each week (usually, especially when they're drug free) and vary the intensity and rep ranges but they wouldn't do one of the major lifts on back to back days (monday and tuesday, thursday and friday, etc) because those kinds of compound lifts are extremely taxing in any program designed to increase your strength or induce hypertrophy and you absolutely need recovery time between sessions to maximize your results.

    Bodybuilders, doing true isolation exercises, can and do work out every day and break up their body into muscle groups that they work individually but again you wouldn't do biceps on a Monday and do biceps again on a Tuesday, for the purposes of recovery.

    Your muscles grow and your brain learns on off days, you've got to put some time between lifting sessions for any given lift for it to have its best effect.

    Yes - if you know what you're doing and why you're doing it - absolutely. I'd say for those starting out, being more conservative about ramping up training is better as there's lots of little muscles, adjustments and recovery to do. The 2 intense/rest light is primarily aimed at building endurance, VO2 max and cardio efficiency. Lifting uses pretty much none of those things. The point of these programs is to train your body to be as efficient as possible with the largest amount of potential effort available while occasionally training the actual muscles so you can use the massive stores effectively in bursts.
    I've fallen off the wagon a bit, but I noticed a big difference when I trained this way for a whole winter, as hiking and biking I'd barely be breaking a sweat with normal paces with little need for replenishing calories or water.

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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    I need an option select of workouts to do at a local gym when I only have 30 minutes between door-in and door-out

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Unrelated to weightlifting:

    Yupppp hill sprints suck exactly as much as I imagined they would

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Unrelated to weightlifting:

    Yupppp hill sprints suck exactly as much as I imagined they would

    On those days you're filled with extra self-loathing, just swap them out for lunging up the hill as fast as possible. No cheating! Full lunges. Or do one legged frog lunge jumps to get up it.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Unrelated to weightlifting:

    Yupppp hill sprints suck exactly as much as I imagined they would

    On those days you're filled with extra self-loathing, just swap them out for lunging up the hill as fast as possible. No cheating! Full lunges. Or do one legged frog lunge jumps to get up it.

    You’re a monster.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Unrelated to weightlifting:

    Yupppp hill sprints suck exactly as much as I imagined they would

    On those days you're filled with extra self-loathing, just swap them out for lunging up the hill as fast as possible. No cheating! Full lunges. Or do one legged frog lunge jumps to get up it.

    You’re a monster.

    I know. This used to be my ski training in the off season. It sucks but you will build legs of pure steel. Bonus points if you do parallel ski (mogul) jumps all the way down to build foot dexterity.

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    IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    I hate this idea of lunges up the hills... but I might try it.

    Also this thread has me thinking a lot about my marathon training, which was based on a single training program I went through that has me running Mon-Thursday and a long run on Saturday, alternating medium-short-medium-short in intensity for the weekdays. They also recommended on the short days and Friday to do slight weight training (very light weights), and all this leads me to actually resting only on Sunday, though with my typical schedule that means yard work or housework that isn't exactly restful.

    Might need to be more introspective about all this in the coming training season.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Icemopper wrote: »
    I hate this idea of lunges up the hills... but I might try it.

    Also this thread has me thinking a lot about my marathon training, which was based on a single training program I went through that has me running Mon-Thursday and a long run on Saturday, alternating medium-short-medium-short in intensity for the weekdays. They also recommended on the short days and Friday to do slight weight training (very light weights), and all this leads me to actually resting only on Sunday, though with my typical schedule that means yard work or housework that isn't exactly restful.

    Might need to be more introspective about all this in the coming training season.

    For endurance stuff, these guys generally know their stuff and I really liked some of the guidance I got from some of their folks (one posts on another forum I'm on) - https://www.fasttalklabs.com/pathways/polarized-training/

    Also lunging up hills really does suck as much as it sounds, but really does a great job of building explosive power and the endurance to reliably deliver it.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    45kgs on the 20mm edge, half-crimp hang for 10 seconds

    That's 160% of bodyweight. Nice.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    This year has been a bit rough weight wise.

    We had a much warmer summer than expected so my running went down and my social life went back to normal so I been drinking on weekends now than I used to.

    My weight was around 5 to 10 lbs higher than it used to be through the year. Not huge but still not happy.

    Finally getting it under control again and looks like I'll finish the year at the same weight as I was at the start of the year so I'll be happy.

    I don't think I'll ever hit the lowest I ever was during quarantine (148) but I'll be happy staying under 160 and enjoying my social life.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    45kgs on the 20mm edge, half-crimp hang for 10 seconds

    That's 160% of bodyweight. Nice.

    To expand a bit

    My PB at the end of an intense block was 48kgs added for 10 seconds. At the beginning of this block it is 45kgs fot 10 seconds which is more than I thought it would be tbh! Basically the aim for this block is to push to 52.5kgs for 10 seconds I.e 170% BW. That'd be a good goal.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    This year has been a bit rough weight wise.

    We had a much warmer summer than expected so my running went down and my social life went back to normal so I been drinking on weekends now than I used to.

    My weight was around 5 to 10 lbs higher than it used to be through the year. Not huge but still not happy.

    Finally getting it under control again and looks like I'll finish the year at the same weight as I was at the start of the year so I'll be happy.

    I don't think I'll ever hit the lowest I ever was during quarantine (148) but I'll be happy staying under 160 and enjoying my social life.

    Better to be sustainable and healthy than always at your lowest weight anyway. Makes training more successful too.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    Solar wrote: »
    Kyougu wrote: »
    This year has been a bit rough weight wise.

    We had a much warmer summer than expected so my running went down and my social life went back to normal so I been drinking on weekends now than I used to.

    My weight was around 5 to 10 lbs higher than it used to be through the year. Not huge but still not happy.

    Finally getting it under control again and looks like I'll finish the year at the same weight as I was at the start of the year so I'll be happy.

    I don't think I'll ever hit the lowest I ever was during quarantine (148) but I'll be happy staying under 160 and enjoying my social life.

    Better to be sustainable and healthy than always at your lowest weight anyway. Makes training more successful too.

    You're also naturally going to gain water weight when drinking so it's possible that you are only noticing the outlier and not the trend, especially if it's a weekend thing

    If I drink more than 1 drink, the following day I only have like a 0.5lb gain, and the next it can be as high as +3lbs

    Similarly if I have any restaurant food that has elevated sodium (so like... 90% of it), the next day I'll be up at least 1.5lbs and that compounds if I have more restaurant/takeout food

    I think my high score has been +4lbs or so, it invariably drops off by the end of the week if I return to homecooking, but it isn't unheard of in my Discord for folks to have a +5 to +7 gain

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    I had a friend (who owns a bar) visit me from out of town when I was living in Portland and he wanted to be a big foodie while he was visiting so we went out to a bunch of nice restaurants, and we met in the middle on number of drinks (which is a vast downgrade for him and a huge increase in volume for me).

    At the end of his 5 day visit I weighed in a +10lbs which gave me quite the shock, but then I went back to my regular diet and my body was like “oh thank god you stopped trying to poison me” and I was back to my regular weight in Iike a week.

    Inverse is I have weighed myself before and after BJJ (in which I sweat a ton) and came out several lbs lighter after a session.

    Water weight is a hell of a thing.

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    KamarKamar Registered User regular
    With my weight loss coming along nicely, I'm turning my eye towards fitness again.

    I'm probably just going to look at some beginner programs for strength and cardio and cut everything in half or more, to avoid fucking myself up completely again. Whatever inflammatory crap I have going on (note to self, find a doctor who doesn't see anxiety+pain and write it off as fibromyalgia no matter how poorly that fits) can leave me with extreme muscle soreness for well over a week and completely kill my ability to keep on a fitness plan, so yeah, gonna go real slow this time.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    From personal experience, a 5k run causes me to lose about 1/3 of a kilo in water weight, depending a bit on pace and the temperature outside, and 15k drops me a full kilo. The really big surprise for me though was much it fluctuates overnight. I got curious at one point, and spent a couple of weeks weighing myself at night, after having finished eating/drinking for the day, and weighing myself the next morning before eating/drinking, In doing so, I’ve seen the scales drop by as much as three pounds. The various “ations” (respiration, perspiration, etc) can move water off the body remarkably quickly.

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2022
    I just remembered that as of October my work offers an "entertainment & lifestyle" fund of like 1k that you can spend on all kinds of different stuff. Think I'm gonna use that to get a rowing machine and basic home weight set so I can try and get back in the groove of daily exercise and deny myself the excuse of "gym is too expensive/far away".

    Diet is gonna have to get figured out at some point but my willpower is basically nil so I figure I may as well start where I can. Getting reeeaal sick of how much I dislike what I see in the mirror each morning!

    Houk the Namebringer on
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