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[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 21
    To be fair, that was a Zefram Cochrane constructed from the crew's memory. Remember everyone in First Contact was shocked to see he was a drunk, because history has thoroughly buried his drinking, his utter divergence from the Federation ideals he helped enable, and his ranting about invincibility cybernetic zombies from the future.

    Also how the Excalbians chose Kahless the Unforgettable as an embodiment of evil, while he was likely more noble and good than any powerful modern Klingon.

    Hevach on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    What would you do if a thirsty cloud girl showed up at your door

    I'm pretty sure this is at least one anime/H-game.

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    What would you do if a thirsty cloud girl showed up at your door

    Is she smoking hot?

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    To be fair, that was a Zefram Cochrane constructed from the crew's memory. Remember everyone in First Contact was shocked to see he was a drunk, because history has thoroughly buried his drinking, his utter divergence from the Federation ideals he helped enable, and his ranting about invincibility cybernetic zombies from the future.

    Also how the Excalbians chose Kahless the Unforgettable as an embodiment of evil, while he was likely more noble and good than any powerful modern Klingon.

    Was it? I thought that was the original Cochrane who decided to die alone in space, only to be made immortal by the thirsty cloud girl.
    Then the cloud girl dragged the Enterprise crew to Cochrane when he was lonely after a century two of cloud companionship. I don't think Cochrane was one of the representatives of Good for the Excalbians test.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm getting my TOS space gods crossed, I think. Excalbians used Space Lincoln.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Donnicton wrote: »
    What would you do if a thirsty cloud girl showed up at your door

    put the cum in cumulonimbus, obviously

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited April 22
    Hevach wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm getting my TOS space gods crossed, I think. Excalbians used Space Lincoln.

    Understandable mistake. I've said before that in TOS, it sometimes seemed like you couldn't swing a dead tribble without hitting a weakly-godlike or nigh-omnipotent, and isn't it nice they let us play with our toy spaceships?

    In TNG and DS9, that mostly got folded into the Q and Prophets, respectively.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    The one thing I learned from TOS and TNG is that you can't give immortality away. Every other uninhabited planet has some entity begging that travelers would take them up on transferring their brains in to an indestructible body that will live for 500,000 years and feels just like the real thing, but NOOOO that's just not good enough for star fleet officers. I would be surprised if half the Ferengi coming home from deep space exploration didn't come back as immortal demi gods.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    omfg the baseball card episode

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    there's definitely that one time Kirk is like

    "guys i found immortal robot aliens and they want to live in our brains and give us their immortal medicine and science the main guy assures me this is all on the level plz ignore my high fever"

    and the rest of the bridge crew gives each other uncertain looks and he's all

    "I want to get possessed and receive forbidden knowledge i can't see a single problem with this plan don't ruin this for me bones i swear to god"

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    there's definitely that one time Kirk is like

    "guys i found immortal robot aliens and they want to live in our brains and give us their immortal medicine and science the main guy assures me this is all on the level plz ignore my high fever"

    and the rest of the bridge crew gives each other uncertain looks and he's all

    "I want to get possessed and receive forbidden knowledge i can't see a single problem with this plan don't ruin this for me bones i swear to god"

    Okay but that sounds rad right?

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    there's definitely that one time Kirk is like

    "guys i found immortal robot aliens and they want to live in our brains and give us their immortal medicine and science the main guy assures me this is all on the level plz ignore my high fever"

    and the rest of the bridge crew gives each other uncertain looks and he's all

    "I want to get possessed and receive forbidden knowledge i can't see a single problem with this plan don't ruin this for me bones i swear to god"

    Okay but that sounds rad right?

    oh hell yeah

    out of nowhere it turns out to be a bad idea for the crew, but show me a moldy diary in a ruined basement and i will absolutely read that latin

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited April 22
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    The one thing I learned from TOS and TNG is that you can't give immortality away. Every other uninhabited planet has some entity begging that travelers would take them up on transferring their brains in to an indestructible body that will live for 500,000 years and feels just like the real thing, but NOOOO that's just not good enough for star fleet officers. I would be surprised if half the Ferengi coming home from deep space exploration didn't come back as immortal demi gods.

    The assumption - see TOS "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and TNG "The Schizoid Man", though surprisingly not brought up in TOS "I, Mudd" where a similar offer is made to Uhura - is that some ineffable "human" quality is lost in the transfer. Something with your face and memories may live forever, but it won't be you, exactly. Because that would be cheating, see, you're supposed to get to eternal incorporeal existence "naturally", through biological and spiritual evolution. :rotate:

    TOS and early TNG is weirdly inconsistent, on this and other things. (All those different writers, I suppose, but also a slapped-together and mostly unexamined mix of secular humanism and "woo" pseudoscience from the 60s-70s-early 80s.) On the one hand they insist they've outgrown gods and "superstition" and so on, but at the same time, their attitudes toward interfering with "natural development", and dancing around the matter of the-soul-but-we-don't-call-it-that, is hard to see as anything but fearful moralizing about hubris or Tampering In God's Domain. And no one ever seems to talk to the Vulcans, to whom the katra is absolutely real and well-documented.

    And now here we are in 2021 2399, and Picard is a synth now and I'm pretty sure we're supposed to accept it's "really" him, so *tosses all the papers up in the air and walks out* :P

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    there's definitely that one time Kirk is like

    "guys i found immortal robot aliens and they want to live in our brains and give us their immortal medicine and science the main guy assures me this is all on the level plz ignore my high fever"

    and the rest of the bridge crew gives each other uncertain looks and he's all

    "I want to get possessed and receive forbidden knowledge i can't see a single problem with this plan don't ruin this for me bones i swear to god"

    Okay but that sounds rad right?

    oh hell yeah

    out of nowhere it turns out to be a bad idea for the crew, but show me a moldy diary in a ruined basement and i will absolutely read that latin

    "It just says 'Coleoptera sucus' over and over..."

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    https://collider.com/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-anson-mount-episodic-comments/
    So when Collider’s own Christina Radish recently spoke with Mount as part of the press day for his new film The Virtuoso (which is available On Demand and on Digital on April 30th), she asked about what fans can expect from Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Mount revealed that, originally, executive producer and Strange New Worlds showrunner Akiva Goldsman came aboard Star Trek: Discovery mainly so he could write the Captain Pike character – only to discover Pike was not part of the original plans for the show:

    “Funny enough, I only found out after Strange New Worlds was picked up that, early in the days of planning Discovery, Akiva Goldsman, who's our showrunner, had lobbied to be on Discovery because he's a huge Star Trek fan. Akiva is so busy in his film career that he didn't need to add a TV show, but he wanted to do Discovery. All he had heard about was that it was going to be a pre-Kirk show, so he assumed it was a show about Captain Pike. He gets in the writers' room and he's like, ‘Wait, what?! This is a different show. Okay, all right. We can play with this, but we've gotta do another show.’ So, he was lobbying for it and lobbying for it and lobbying for it. I got lucky enough to be cast in the role for Season 2 of Discovery, and they didn't tell me any of this, thank God, because I would have been far too nervous. I just thought it was a one season gig and that was it.”


    ...

    As for the more episodic nature of Strange New Worlds, Mount says he feels there’s room for both kinds of storytelling approaches in the Star Trek universe:

    “Well, I think that Star Trek is, by nature, episodic. Now, that doesn't mean that Star Trek can't be other things. Star Trek can be a lot of things, as we've seen in every iteration of it. But classic Trek is really founded on the big idea of the week, and the big idea of the week needs room to breathe. In serialized structure, you're trying to take care of so many relationships that there doesn't tend to be a lot of room for that. Now with that said, I think Discovery does a phenomenal job with that structure and I was very fortunate to be a part of it. Normally, serialized is my taste, as an actor, but this really felt like it needed to be episodic.”

    me upon finding out that Akiva Goldsman, screenwriter of Batman & Robin, was excited to do a Pike show and disappointed to learn that Discovery was...Discovery:

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    What would you do if a thirsty cloud girl showed up at your door

    put the cum in cumulonimbus, obviously

    Cirrusly?

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    https://collider.com/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-anson-mount-episodic-comments/
    So when Collider’s own Christina Radish recently spoke with Mount as part of the press day for his new film The Virtuoso (which is available On Demand and on Digital on April 30th), she asked about what fans can expect from Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Mount revealed that, originally, executive producer and Strange New Worlds showrunner Akiva Goldsman came aboard Star Trek: Discovery mainly so he could write the Captain Pike character – only to discover Pike was not part of the original plans for the show:

    “Funny enough, I only found out after Strange New Worlds was picked up that, early in the days of planning Discovery, Akiva Goldsman, who's our showrunner, had lobbied to be on Discovery because he's a huge Star Trek fan. Akiva is so busy in his film career that he didn't need to add a TV show, but he wanted to do Discovery. All he had heard about was that it was going to be a pre-Kirk show, so he assumed it was a show about Captain Pike. He gets in the writers' room and he's like, ‘Wait, what?! This is a different show. Okay, all right. We can play with this, but we've gotta do another show.’ So, he was lobbying for it and lobbying for it and lobbying for it. I got lucky enough to be cast in the role for Season 2 of Discovery, and they didn't tell me any of this, thank God, because I would have been far too nervous. I just thought it was a one season gig and that was it.”


    ...

    As for the more episodic nature of Strange New Worlds, Mount says he feels there’s room for both kinds of storytelling approaches in the Star Trek universe:

    “Well, I think that Star Trek is, by nature, episodic. Now, that doesn't mean that Star Trek can't be other things. Star Trek can be a lot of things, as we've seen in every iteration of it. But classic Trek is really founded on the big idea of the week, and the big idea of the week needs room to breathe. In serialized structure, you're trying to take care of so many relationships that there doesn't tend to be a lot of room for that. Now with that said, I think Discovery does a phenomenal job with that structure and I was very fortunate to be a part of it. Normally, serialized is my taste, as an actor, but this really felt like it needed to be episodic.”

    me upon finding out that Akiva Goldsman, screenwriter of Batman & Robin, was excited to do a Pike show and disappointed to learn that Discovery was...Discovery:

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I know I post a lot of these, but sometimes Facebook Star Trek memes are just too correct.

    s326rq7t7lrp.jpg

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I recently came across a clip from the episode The Ensigns of Command. This is the episode where the Sheliak are about to colonize a planet in their space and discover a human settlement there, descendants of the lost ship the SS Artemis.

    In this episode, Data has to convince the people on the planet to leave, or they will be killed (likely from orbit) by the Sheliak. Eventually, things come to a head, and Data realizes that he can't convince them to leave via negotiation. So he destroys their aqueduct as a show of force to get them to realize that staying means dying.



    What I found interesting was the contrast of this episode to the Maquis. Here, Data has no problem with essentially forcing the colonists to leave by destroying something they need to survive on the planet. While they likely would've been just fine over the short term, it's pretty easy to make the case that living there would've been harder, and if they somehow found themselves fighting on the ground against the Sheliak then he just destroyed something of theirs of great strategic value. It's also worth noting that while they were Federation citizens (Picard explicitly says so in the episode, so I'm assuming "natural-born" rights here from parentage), Federation officers aren't necessarily in the business of running around and destroying people's property.

    At the end of the day, one wonders if Picard would've been willing to force the issue and just round up all the people, willingly or not. I'm guessing that unlike Sisko, he would've just taken all the people who wanted to leave and left the rest to fend for themselves, so long as leaving them there didn't precipitate a war or something along those lines.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I think the fact that data, one guy with a hand phaser, destroyed their "strategic asset" with ease, was the point he was making. If he could do it with a phaser then the sheliak could have done it with a starship.

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    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I think the fact that data, one guy with a hand phaser, destroyed their "strategic asset" with ease, was the point he was making. If he could do it with a phaser then the sheliak could have done it with a starship.

    Yes...I very clearly said that was the point he was making?

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I recently came across a clip from the episode The Ensigns of Command. This is the episode where the Sheliak are about to colonize a planet in their space and discover a human settlement there, descendants of the lost ship the SS Artemis.

    In this episode, Data has to convince the people on the planet to leave, or they will be killed (likely from orbit) by the Sheliak. Eventually, things come to a head, and Data realizes that he can't convince them to leave via negotiation. So he destroys their aqueduct as a show of force to get them to realize that staying means dying.



    What I found interesting was the contrast of this episode to the Maquis. Here, Data has no problem with essentially forcing the colonists to leave by destroying something they need to survive on the planet. While they likely would've been just fine over the short term, it's pretty easy to make the case that living there would've been harder, and if they somehow found themselves fighting on the ground against the Sheliak then he just destroyed something of theirs of great strategic value. It's also worth noting that while they were Federation citizens (Picard explicitly says so in the episode, so I'm assuming "natural-born" rights here from parentage), Federation officers aren't necessarily in the business of running around and destroying people's property.

    At the end of the day, one wonders if Picard would've been willing to force the issue and just round up all the people, willingly or not. I'm guessing that unlike Sisko, he would've just taken all the people who wanted to leave and left the rest to fend for themselves, so long as leaving them there didn't precipitate a war or something along those lines.

    Well remember there was technobabble to make transporting them impossible, which was part of the dilemma. I suspect Picard wouldn't have had the manpower to forcibly round everyone up.

    But of course now we have to remember the other memorable scene from that

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Dealing with the Maquis, Picard was about ready to just Star beaming people up like it or not. The tribe leader gave him pause, but Wesley blowing the plan actually stopped him.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited April 26
    Also keep in mind that the colonists in question had no contact with the federation since the early days of warp travel and themselves have lost a lot of technology and have been living in a Fallout esque society since the crash. They barely understand what a phaser is or what a modern spaceship can do with weapons.

    Maquis on the other hand do know what these weapons can do and how to avoid scanners and how to use guerrilla tactics to fight an invading force, these dopes would just stand there with sticks and get nuked from orbit.

    As for Data, I think he logically values human lives over regulations. Also, who cares that he blew up an aqueduct? The entire place will be a smoldering crater in a week or two.

    DanHibiki on
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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time in ages and is there any relationship between Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong? Or was Noonien just like "John" there for a while

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time in ages and is there any relationship between Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong? Or was Noonien just like "John" there for a while

    There is actually, but a real life one

    As far as I remember reading, they're both named after a man Roddenberry knew from world War 2 and was trying to find again

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time in ages and is there any relationship between Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong? Or was Noonien just like "John" there for a while

    No relationship, it's just the John Smith of the Star Trek universe.

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular

    During World War II, he had a friend named Kim Noonien Singh; after the war Kim disappeared, and Gene used his name for some characters in the Star Trek series (Khan Noonien Singh from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) and Noonien Soong from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987)) in hopes that Kim might recognize his name and contact him.

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  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time in ages and is there any relationship between Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong? Or was Noonien just like "John" there for a while

    None in universe, but apparently they're both named after a guy Gene Roddenberry knew during WW2

    sig.gif
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular

    During World War II, he had a friend named Kim Noonien Singh; after the war Kim disappeared, and Gene used his name for some characters in the Star Trek series (Khan Noonien Singh from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) and Noonien Soong from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987)) in hopes that Kim might recognize his name and contact him.

    I did not know that. Cool. Also, weird.

    "I miss my friend from the war. I shall name a character in his honour."
    "Which one?"
    "The blood-thirsty dictator from a future war worse than the one we fought together in."

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Noonien sounds kinda like "Nguyen" is pronounced, doesn't it?

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Noonien sounds kinda like "Nguyen" is pronounced, doesn't it?

    No, not even close. Nguyen is pronounced "win."

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    That's so interesting thank you

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    That's so interesting thank you

    There are a couple of comics that taught me this knowledge, but just now I was like "you know I should probably verify it", and the consensus is that while in English the name has the agreed-upon pronunciation of "win", if you actually listen to it in vietnamese the sound is more subtle and comes out as "g'win" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen#Pronunciation.

    I'm not confident in my ability to produce the type of g-sound native Vietnamese speakers use, though, so I'll keep using "win" in professional settings.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 26
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Also keep in mind that the colonists in question had no contact with the federation since the early days of warp travel and themselves have lost a lot of technology and have been living in a Fallout esque society since the crash. They barely understand what a phaser is or what a modern spaceship can do with weapons.

    Maquis on the other hand do know what these weapons can do and how to avoid scanners and how to use guerrilla tactics to fight an invading force, these dopes would just stand there with sticks and get nuked from orbit.

    As for Data, I think he logically values human lives over regulations. Also, who cares that he blew up an aqueduct? The entire place will be a smoldering crater in a week or two.

    Those tricks worked great until the Cardassians actually went to hot war, and then they nuked the Maquis from orbit and killed all of them (at least, the ones on the ground, the ones in ships merely got to hear that their families were murdered)

    They all died because the people that know better, like Eddington, convinced them they could win

    Extremist take but I believe the Federation would have been entirely ethical to forcibly remove any children from those colonies as soon as tensions started getting hot, they all ended up dying for their parents' libertarian self sufficiency hardons

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    That's so interesting thank you

    There are a couple of comics that taught me this knowledge, but just now I was like "you know I should probably verify it", and the consensus is that while in English the name has the agreed-upon pronunciation of "win", if you actually listen to it in vietnamese the sound is more subtle and comes out as "g'win" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen#Pronunciation.

    I'm not confident in my ability to produce the type of g-sound native Vietnamese speakers use, though, so I'll keep using "win" in professional settings.

    The pronunciation is also dependent upon the dialect/region someone comes from.

    You basically can't go wrong with "win" though. It's far closer than what most people say when they try to read the name phonetically.

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  • KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    That's so interesting thank you

    There are a couple of comics that taught me this knowledge, but just now I was like "you know I should probably verify it", and the consensus is that while in English the name has the agreed-upon pronunciation of "win", if you actually listen to it in vietnamese the sound is more subtle and comes out as "g'win" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen#Pronunciation.

    I'm not confident in my ability to produce the type of g-sound native Vietnamese speakers use, though, so I'll keep using "win" in professional settings.

    The pronunciation is also dependent upon the dialect/region someone comes from.

    You basically can't go wrong with "win" though. It's far closer than what most people say when they try to read the name phonetically.

    This. I had a friend in college with that last name, and he pronounced it "wen" and that's also a common pronunciation for it.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Also keep in mind that the colonists in question had no contact with the federation since the early days of warp travel and themselves have lost a lot of technology and have been living in a Fallout esque society since the crash. They barely understand what a phaser is or what a modern spaceship can do with weapons.

    Maquis on the other hand do know what these weapons can do and how to avoid scanners and how to use guerrilla tactics to fight an invading force, these dopes would just stand there with sticks and get nuked from orbit.

    As for Data, I think he logically values human lives over regulations. Also, who cares that he blew up an aqueduct? The entire place will be a smoldering crater in a week or two.

    Those tricks worked great until the Cardassians actually went to hot war, and then they nuked the Maquis from orbit and killed all of them (at least, the ones on the ground, the ones in ships merely got to hear that their families were murdered)

    They all died because the people that know better, like Eddington, convinced them they could win

    Extremist take but I believe the Federation would have been entirely ethical to forcibly remove any children from those colonies as soon as tensions started getting hot, they all ended up dying for their parents' libertarian self sufficiency hardons

    It wasn't the Cardassians that did the Maquis in, it was the Dominion.

    Richy
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    That's so interesting thank you

    There are a couple of comics that taught me this knowledge, but just now I was like "you know I should probably verify it", and the consensus is that while in English the name has the agreed-upon pronunciation of "win", if you actually listen to it in vietnamese the sound is more subtle and comes out as "g'win" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen#Pronunciation.

    I'm not confident in my ability to produce the type of g-sound native Vietnamese speakers use, though, so I'll keep using "win" in professional settings.

    its interesting, i remember going to high school with two people that had that last name (not siblings) and one pronounced it n-win and the other g-win. both the first letters were very soft but i just "assumed" that it was regional differences.

  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    FrauCron is watching Voyager for the first time, and while i'm keeping my distance and my thoughts to myself, she watched Threshold yesterday. It's still as batshit as I remembered, but I'd forgotten how early in the show's run it was - it's mid-season 2. I'd assumed it was much later, just because the spectacular spider-barclay was in season 7 of TNG
    FrauCron on the other hand, simply has so many questions about it afterwards, and any answer just begets further questions.

    It's gonna be a long seven seasons.

    sig.gif
    Pailryderoverride367JacobkoshCambiataNightslyrGiantGeek2020Matevchrono_traveller
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