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[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    A new Axanar video just dropped in my youtube recommendations, I thought that was dead and gone?

    It looks a lot more amateurish than what they were making years ago. Strong porn acting vibes.

    That's not necessarily a negative. The TNG porn movie is leagues better than any of the actual TNG movies.

    Yes but if you watch the stuff from six years ago there were clearly professional actors involved, some from ENT even, this has much more of a "community theatre with a better set budget" feel to it.

    I just watched it now.

    Wow... to call this acting wooden is an understatement. The Shigir Idol is more lively than this.

    Really makes you re-evaluate Scott Bakula doesn't it?

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 28
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    People who think the Cardassians (pre-Dominion) could just waltz in and wipe out the Maquis by force also overestimate the strength of the Cardassians. Which is easy to do because they were hidden behind wall after wall of secrecy - interstellar politics secrecy, demilitarized zone secrecy, central command secrecy, military secrecy, obsidian order secrecy, etc., - so we just see a vague threatening powerful block. When in reality they were dealing with social turmoil and protests so intense that their government literally collapsed from internal pressures alone over the run of DS9. (Again, like they're a metaphor for something in the real world.) We tend to gloss over that fact because the Cardassian Civilian Government lasted all of five minutes before the Klingons swooped in and set it ablaze and then Dukat sold off the pieces to the Dominion, but it's a major thing that happened. And getting back to the point, even without the Federation treaty holding them back, the Cardassians were in no shape to commit a massive military force to the Maquis when they had such major issues to deal with at home.

    I disagree, they are small colonies on tiny worlds

    The Cardassians lost quickly to the Klingons because of a massive gap in technology and the klingons being a much larger empire. The Cardassians are Saddam Hussein's Iraq. They aren't at parity with any of the major powers, but they are a REGIONAL power

    ONE of their keldon class warships could have obliterated the colonies, the Maquis only had small federation fighters, fit for attacking Cardassian patrol craft or luring larger ships into traps in the badlands, not capable of a stand up fight against an actual military vessel

    The Federation is at parity with the Klingons militarily, the issue is that unless its an existential threat, the Federation won't actually commit to a war. They send task forces to deal with the Cardassians, they don't call in all of their vessels and send 2000 starships, which they'd have to do to win like the Klingons did, because the Federation doesn't have a dedicated war fleet

    The Federation going to for-real war disrupts the lives of millions (billions?) of people across the Federation in some way, and every ship has to pause its exploration, scientific, or diplomatic missions. From TNG and TOS we know that these missions aren't all just for-fun, a lot of them have real stakes with lives attached to them

    The Klingons going to war is something their fleet is sitting around waiting to do at basically all times

    The Maquis didn't have to win an all-out war. They just had to bleed Cardassia dry.

    While it's true that if Cardassia brought their full might to bear they could've held onto the worlds along the DMZ, even if they had the leeway to militarize that region of space, they would've had to expend so many resources that it would not have been worth it. Logical consistency aside, canonically Cardassia shared borders with or were near enough to be threatened by, at minimum: the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans. They also had Bajor and, likely, a number of other independent/rebellious systems to contend with.

    The idea that you can just blow everything up and win should have been weaned out of us as a species by the last 50 years, if not the last 3,000 years, of history.

    But they can just blow up everything and win, they have space ships with anti-matter weapons

    You have to care about either the human cost, or care about retaliation to not be able to just "blow everything up"

    As a demonstrative I will point out that the fictional people we're talking about in the fictional universe were, in fact, blown up from space. A handful of them ended up surviving in an uncharted underground base for a while in deplorable conditions, but all of their families were mostly eradicated because Eddington sold them on the idea that they COULD win something that was ultimately unwinnable (it was a political war, as soon as it became a total war, they lost literally that day)

    I think you're vastly overestimating the scale of the human colonial presence in relation to the Cardassian Empire, this isn't Vietnam vs America, this is the Maldives vs The Entire Earth

    There are costs besides human costs. There is resources costs. To blow everything up, you have to not only have the resources to blow everything up (which I think we all agree the Cardassians had) but also be able to spare them (i.e. not need them to do something else more urgent and important than blow everything up) and to expect the benefit from everything being blown up to outweigh the cost of blowing up everything.

    We don't know the cost/benefit of pacifying the DMZ by blowing it all up, so we don't know if it would have been worth it for the Cardassians. But for in-universe reference, we do know it never was worth it to them to just blow Bajor up to hell and be done with the Resistance that way, and that was just one planet and not multiple worlds across a large span of space, so I'd lean on the "no".

    We do know however that they did not have the resources to spare to do it because, as I pointed out earlier, they were facing internal turmoil so severe their government was on the verge of total collapse (again, as someone else pointed out). Central Command needed its resources close by to insure its survival, not out passifying a region of space so secondary to them they gave it up in negotiations a few years prior.

    The Maquis realized that the Cardassians couldn't just blow them all up from orbit and win that way, because of political fallout as well as lack of resources, so they could fight and win. The war was winnable (and in fact they were winning it) so long as those rules didn't change. The Maquis only lost when the Dominion took over Cardassia and changed the rules. Which is not something you can really blame Eddington for not foreseeing.

    But there are several times in DS9 it looks like they're going to do exactly that

    "... and then, of course, you will send your own ships, and someone will make the smallest mistake and we'll have a war" - Gul Dukat

    The only reason the colonies weren't subjugated was because of fear of Federation reprisal (hence the De Militarized Zone), that's why the Cardassians were fighting a proxy war using their "Civilian" colonists. There is nothing textual in the series to indicate it was from a lack of resources. After all they were in a much worse position when they subjugated Bajor, which had hundreds (thousands?) of times as many people as the DMZ colonies

    Did you see the episode where the Cardassians built a war fleet in secret to go attack the Dominion leadership? Just because they couldn't beat up the Klingons doesn't mean they were helpless

    *obviously this becomes true later in DS9 when their government falls apart, but before the Dominion shows up

    override367 on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    A new Axanar video just dropped in my youtube recommendations, I thought that was dead and gone?

    It looks a lot more amateurish than what they were making years ago. Strong porn acting vibes.

    They continue on for some reason. I had signed up with them after I watched the initial Axanar thing with greats like J. G. Hertzler and Kate Vernon, so I was signed up on their mailing list. I used to get constant emails until I shut them down, long, long after the court case told them to fuck off. The guy running it seems to be pretty obsessed.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    It's a bit sad to see how far it's fallen. They've gone from the gold standard of Star Trek fan productions to... well... a pretty typical Star Trek fan production.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    Cambiataoverride367
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    A new Axanar video just dropped in my youtube recommendations, I thought that was dead and gone?

    It looks a lot more amateurish than what they were making years ago. Strong porn acting vibes.

    They continue on for some reason. I had signed up with them after I watched the initial Axanar thing with greats like J. G. Hertzler and Kate Vernon, so I was signed up on their mailing list. I used to get constant emails until I shut them down, long, long after the court case told them to fuck off. The guy running it seems to be pretty obsessed.

    The REALLY truly frustrating thing is based off the prelude to Axanar video, they truly got Trek as the world was defined then better than Disco. They certainly got Klingons, and properly scaled stakes.... and how to tease things we knew from TOS without just using it as blatant showpieces. God just thinking about it makes me so frustrated with the Axanar people.

    override367CambiataCommander ZoomMsAnthropy
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 28
    Casual wrote: »
    It's a bit sad to see how far it's fallen. They've gone from the gold standard of Star Trek fan productions to... well... a pretty typical Star Trek fan production.

    ughhh

    yeah that is sad

    prelude at axanar was pretty great, it's a shame they fucked up and sold merch and got shut down early on
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    A new Axanar video just dropped in my youtube recommendations, I thought that was dead and gone?

    It looks a lot more amateurish than what they were making years ago. Strong porn acting vibes.

    They continue on for some reason. I had signed up with them after I watched the initial Axanar thing with greats like J. G. Hertzler and Kate Vernon, so I was signed up on their mailing list. I used to get constant emails until I shut them down, long, long after the court case told them to fuck off. The guy running it seems to be pretty obsessed.

    The REALLY truly frustrating thing is based off the prelude to Axanar video, they truly got Trek as the world was defined then better than Disco. They certainly got Klingons, and properly scaled stakes.... and how to tease things we knew from TOS without just using it as blatant showpieces. God just thinking about it makes me so frustrated with the Axanar people.

    Yeah Prelude recognized all the things I was saying about how you should do Space Combat in Trek. It wasn't like, nearly as high production value as Disco, but Disco's space battles are the same as those in Guardians of the Galaxy - lots of ships firing pew pew pew pew squirty blasters at each other

    Prelude to Axanar had them as large, relatively slow turning objects firing devastating weapons at one another, I was genuinely wanting to see more

    override367 on
    HydropoloCommander ZoomCambiata
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    People who think the Cardassians (pre-Dominion) could just waltz in and wipe out the Maquis by force also overestimate the strength of the Cardassians. Which is easy to do because they were hidden behind wall after wall of secrecy - interstellar politics secrecy, demilitarized zone secrecy, central command secrecy, military secrecy, obsidian order secrecy, etc., - so we just see a vague threatening powerful block. When in reality they were dealing with social turmoil and protests so intense that their government literally collapsed from internal pressures alone over the run of DS9. (Again, like they're a metaphor for something in the real world.) We tend to gloss over that fact because the Cardassian Civilian Government lasted all of five minutes before the Klingons swooped in and set it ablaze and then Dukat sold off the pieces to the Dominion, but it's a major thing that happened. And getting back to the point, even without the Federation treaty holding them back, the Cardassians were in no shape to commit a massive military force to the Maquis when they had such major issues to deal with at home.

    I disagree, they are small colonies on tiny worlds

    The Cardassians lost quickly to the Klingons because of a massive gap in technology and the klingons being a much larger empire. The Cardassians are Saddam Hussein's Iraq. They aren't at parity with any of the major powers, but they are a REGIONAL power

    ONE of their keldon class warships could have obliterated the colonies, the Maquis only had small federation fighters, fit for attacking Cardassian patrol craft or luring larger ships into traps in the badlands, not capable of a stand up fight against an actual military vessel

    The Federation is at parity with the Klingons militarily, the issue is that unless its an existential threat, the Federation won't actually commit to a war. They send task forces to deal with the Cardassians, they don't call in all of their vessels and send 2000 starships, which they'd have to do to win like the Klingons did, because the Federation doesn't have a dedicated war fleet

    The Federation going to for-real war disrupts the lives of millions (billions?) of people across the Federation in some way, and every ship has to pause its exploration, scientific, or diplomatic missions. From TNG and TOS we know that these missions aren't all just for-fun, a lot of them have real stakes with lives attached to them

    The Klingons going to war is something their fleet is sitting around waiting to do at basically all times

    The Maquis didn't have to win an all-out war. They just had to bleed Cardassia dry.

    While it's true that if Cardassia brought their full might to bear they could've held onto the worlds along the DMZ, even if they had the leeway to militarize that region of space, they would've had to expend so many resources that it would not have been worth it. Logical consistency aside, canonically Cardassia shared borders with or were near enough to be threatened by, at minimum: the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans. They also had Bajor and, likely, a number of other independent/rebellious systems to contend with.

    The idea that you can just blow everything up and win should have been weaned out of us as a species by the last 50 years, if not the last 3,000 years, of history.

    But they can just blow up everything and win, they have space ships with anti-matter weapons

    You have to care about either the human cost, or care about retaliation to not be able to just "blow everything up"

    As a demonstrative I will point out that the fictional people we're talking about in the fictional universe were, in fact, blown up from space. A handful of them ended up surviving in an uncharted underground base for a while in deplorable conditions, but all of their families were mostly eradicated because Eddington sold them on the idea that they COULD win something that was ultimately unwinnable (it was a political war, as soon as it became a total war, they lost literally that day)

    I think you're vastly overestimating the scale of the human colonial presence in relation to the Cardassian Empire, this isn't Vietnam vs America, this is the Maldives vs The Entire Earth

    There are costs besides human costs. There is resources costs. To blow everything up, you have to not only have the resources to blow everything up (which I think we all agree the Cardassians had) but also be able to spare them (i.e. not need them to do something else more urgent and important than blow everything up) and to expect the benefit from everything being blown up to outweigh the cost of blowing up everything.

    We don't know the cost/benefit of pacifying the DMZ by blowing it all up, so we don't know if it would have been worth it for the Cardassians. But for in-universe reference, we do know it never was worth it to them to just blow Bajor up to hell and be done with the Resistance that way, and that was just one planet and not multiple worlds across a large span of space, so I'd lean on the "no".

    We do know however that they did not have the resources to spare to do it because, as I pointed out earlier, they were facing internal turmoil so severe their government was on the verge of total collapse (again, as someone else pointed out). Central Command needed its resources close by to insure its survival, not out passifying a region of space so secondary to them they gave it up in negotiations a few years prior.

    The Maquis realized that the Cardassians couldn't just blow them all up from orbit and win that way, because of political fallout as well as lack of resources, so they could fight and win. The war was winnable (and in fact they were winning it) so long as those rules didn't change. The Maquis only lost when the Dominion took over Cardassia and changed the rules. Which is not something you can really blame Eddington for not foreseeing.

    But there are several times in DS9 it looks like they're going to do exactly that

    "... and then, of course, you will send your own ships, and someone will make the smallest mistake and we'll have a war" - Gul Dukat

    The only reason the colonies weren't subjugated was because of fear of Federation reprisal (hence the De Militarized Zone), that's why the Cardassians were fighting a proxy war using their "Civilian" colonists. There is nothing textual in the series to indicate it was from a lack of resources. After all they were in a much worse position when they subjugated Bajor, which had hundreds (thousands?) of times as many people as the DMZ colonies

    Did you see the episode where the Cardassians built a war fleet in secret to go attack the Dominion leadership? Just because they couldn't beat up the Klingons doesn't mean they were helpless

    *obviously this becomes true later in DS9 when their government falls apart, but before the Dominion shows up

    Posturing and committing are two different things. Also, an all-out war against a powerful traditional enemy and the bombing of second-rate colonies are two different things. A war with the Federation would have given Central Command a real enemy to blame Cardassia's problems on and focus public resentment against, and would have allowed them to strengthen their position and silence their opponents by banging the nationalist drum. That would be a worthwhile use of their resources. Bombing the colonies of the DMZ doesn't accomplish any of this.

    Also, "the Cardassians" didn't build a fleet to attack the Dominions. You're making the mistake I mentioned earlier, of seeing the Cardassians as a single unified powerful block, and ignoring the massive internal strife tearing them apart. The Obsidian Order, in direct opposition to Central Command and with help from the Romulans (and the Founders), built a fleet to attack the Dominion. This is not a show of Cardassian power. If anything, it's a show of Cardassian weakness and disunity, that a faction within their society can make a deal with a foreign government and build a warfleet right under Central Command's nose without them even noticing.

    sig.gif
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    A new Axanar video just dropped in my youtube recommendations, I thought that was dead and gone?

    It looks a lot more amateurish than what they were making years ago. Strong porn acting vibes.

    They continue on for some reason. I had signed up with them after I watched the initial Axanar thing with greats like J. G. Hertzler and Kate Vernon, so I was signed up on their mailing list. I used to get constant emails until I shut them down, long, long after the court case told them to fuck off. The guy running it seems to be pretty obsessed.

    The REALLY truly frustrating thing is based off the prelude to Axanar video, they truly got Trek as the world was defined then better than Disco. They certainly got Klingons, and properly scaled stakes.... and how to tease things we knew from TOS without just using it as blatant showpieces. God just thinking about it makes me so frustrated with the Axanar people.

    Yeah Prelude recognized all the things I was saying about how you should do Space Combat in Trek. It wasn't like, nearly as high production value as Disco, but Disco's space battles are the same as those in Guardians of the Galaxy - lots of ships firing pew pew pew pew squirty blasters at each other

    Prelude to Axanar had them as large, relatively slow turning objects firing devastating weapons at one another, I was genuinely wanting to see more

    Worse, to me, is that the battles were just the setting. It was the characters that really made it come alive. Having that many Trek icons in new roles helped a lot there. I had really hoped that CBS would just say "Look, you guys made Axanar, here is a token salary, we're taking this now and making it our new series/movie".

    override367Nightslyr
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    There's probably legal/copyright reasons they didn't do that. Or just not wanting to set a precedent that could cause them more problems than it was worth.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    if Discovery was a higher budget version of what Axanar originally looked like it was going to be it would be incredible

    Commander ZoomJacobkoshMsAnthropypainfulPleasance
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I wonder if most actors and/or their agents who are in-the-know know about Axanar's legal problems, and now don't want to touch the name with a 10 foot pole. Or at least don't want that kind of quagmire on their resume.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Probably, every studio would shitcan you for messing with copyright like that. They all got properties they want to protect.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I think the guy in charge going full crazy also would drive the talent away.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    override367Commander ZoomJacobkoshNightslyrHahnsoo1Harry DresdenpainfulPleasance
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited April 28
    Point of order. Nothing in Axanar violates COPYRIGHT law persay. The problem Axanar faces is one of TRADEMARK infringement. Axanar by definition is a transformative work and easily falls within copyright fair use. Where Axanar really fucked the pumpkin was in using Paramount's registered trademarks for their own commercial use. Use of the Starfleet Chevron is one such example of a trademark infringement. There is no affirmative defence to selling merchandise using this trademarked symbol. Unlike Copyrights, trademarks need to be vigorously defended in courts to stay valid. Should Paramount fail to vigorously defend their trademarks they would lose trademark protection and end up in the popular lexicon like Dumpster or Q-Tip. Axanar has no valid affirmative defence to their trademark infringement either. They have neither used a nominative or descriptive fair use and Axanar is definitely not a parody.

    That_Guy on
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    RichypainfulPleasance
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    I recently came across a clip from the episode The Ensigns of Command. This is the episode where the Sheliak are about to colonize a planet in their space and discover a human settlement there, descendants of the lost ship the SS Artemis.

    In this episode, Data has to convince the people on the planet to leave, or they will be killed (likely from orbit) by the Sheliak. Eventually, things come to a head, and Data realizes that he can't convince them to leave via negotiation. So he destroys their aqueduct as a show of force to get them to realize that staying means dying.



    What I found interesting was the contrast of this episode to the Maquis. Here, Data has no problem with essentially forcing the colonists to leave by destroying something they need to survive on the planet. While they likely would've been just fine over the short term, it's pretty easy to make the case that living there would've been harder, and if they somehow found themselves fighting on the ground against the Sheliak then he just destroyed something of theirs of great strategic value. It's also worth noting that while they were Federation citizens (Picard explicitly says so in the episode, so I'm assuming "natural-born" rights here from parentage), Federation officers aren't necessarily in the business of running around and destroying people's property.

    At the end of the day, one wonders if Picard would've been willing to force the issue and just round up all the people, willingly or not. I'm guessing that unlike Sisko, he would've just taken all the people who wanted to leave and left the rest to fend for themselves, so long as leaving them there didn't precipitate a war or something along those lines.

    I think the episode makes it pretty clear that that Picard will fight is the Sheliak attack the colony but really prefers that Data convinces them to leave

    Commander Zoom
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Point of order. Nothing in Axanar violates COPYRIGHT law persay. The problem Axanar faces is one of TRADEMARK infringement. Axanar by definition is a transformative work and easily falls within copyright fair use. Where Axanar really fucked the pumpkin was in using Paramount's registered trademarks for their own commercial use. Use of the Starfleet Chevron is one such example of a trademark infringement. There is no affirmative defence to selling merchandise using this trademarked symbol. Unlike Copyrights, trademarks need to be vigorously defended in courts to stay valid. Should Paramount fail to vigorously defend their trademarks they would lose trademark protection and end up in the popular lexicon like Dumpster or Q-Tip. Axanar has no valid affirmative defence to their trademark infringement either. They have neither used a nominative or descriptive fair use and Axanar is definitely not a parody.

    From a practical standpoint, Paramount could almost certainly have crushed them with lawsuits or the like, regardless of the strict legality of whatever they were doing. But like a lot of these companies, they know the value of not being a complete dick to fans and giving them some leeway. Axanar then pushed it way too far and pissed Paramount off.

    Commander ZoomJacobkoshCambiataStrikorNightslyrMatev
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited April 28
    It really sucks because Axanar's insanity fucked things up for everyone else. Not that I'm a big fan film aficionado but I would have loved to get a lot more Star Trek Continues.

    Jacobkosh on
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    shrykeoverride367NightslyrCommander ZoomCasualpainfulPleasance
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    In some ways, it's sort of ironic consider what happened to Capt Gareth between the battle of Axanar and TOS.

    JacobkoshCambiataCommander Zoom
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    that's "Lord Garth!"

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    not really nsfw but just in case
    0k6tn6ykyw1o.png
    gave me a good chuckle

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    kHDRsTc.png
    shrykeoverride367RichyJacobkoshMancingtomCambiataRMS OceanicInquisitor77StrikorSnicketysnickCasualDanHibikiNightslyrDonnictonShadowenMatevhlprmnkyHarry DresdenDiarmuidAbsoluteZeroJandaru
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I did end up watching The Thaw again and how the fuck is Michael McKean so good?

    Also, Janeway meeting Fear and Fear being the one who is scared is an all-time classic Star Trek moment.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

    RMS OceanicMancingtomoverride367autono-wally, erotibot300PailryderHevachRichyNightslyrShadowenMatevhlprmnky
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    I did end up watching The Thaw again and how the fuck is Michael McKean so good?

    Also, Janeway meeting Fear and Fear being the one who is scared is an all-time classic Star Trek moment.
    "I knooowwwww..."

    override367CambiataCommander ZoomPailryderHevachHerrCronNightslyrShadowenhlprmnky
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    I did end up watching The Thaw again and how the fuck is Michael McKean so good?

    Also, Janeway meeting Fear and Fear being the one who is scared is an all-time classic Star Trek moment.

    Sisko is intimidating. Janeway is chilling.

    CambiataNightslyrStrikorhlprmnky
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Point of order. Nothing in Axanar violates COPYRIGHT law persay. The problem Axanar faces is one of TRADEMARK infringement. Axanar by definition is a transformative work and easily falls within copyright fair use. Where Axanar really fucked the pumpkin was in using Paramount's registered trademarks for their own commercial use. Use of the Starfleet Chevron is one such example of a trademark infringement. There is no affirmative defence to selling merchandise using this trademarked symbol. Unlike Copyrights, trademarks need to be vigorously defended in courts to stay valid. Should Paramount fail to vigorously defend their trademarks they would lose trademark protection and end up in the popular lexicon like Dumpster or Q-Tip. Axanar has no valid affirmative defence to their trademark infringement either. They have neither used a nominative or descriptive fair use and Axanar is definitely not a parody.

    Just a remark about the bolded, that is oftentimes so misconstrued that the EFF even felt compelled to put out a statement refuting that. The bar for Genericide is much higher than most people think it is, in order for them to lose protection what would basically have to happen is everyone starts to refer to sci-fi in general as a Star Trek.
    Second, Canonical is not “required” to enforce its mark in every instance or risk losing it. The circumstances under which a company could actually lose a trademark—such as abandonment and genericide—are quite limited. Genericide occurs when a trademark becomes the standard term for a type of good (‘zipper’ and ‘escalator’ being two famous examples). This is very rare and would not be a problem for Canonical unless people start saying “Ubuntu” simply to mean “operating system.” Courts also set a very high bar to show abandonment (usually years of total non-use). Importantly, failure to enforce a mark against every potential infringer does not show abandonment.

    Now I'm not familiar with the whole Axanar situation specifically but if they were selling unlicensed Star Trek branded items that was pretty fucking dumb and I'm not surprised that Paramount went after them for it, but Paramount not going after them for it would not mean Paramount would risk losing Star Trek.

    That_GuyHevachJacobkoshCambiata
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Also, it doesn't just happen, it's a defense somebody can claim when you sue them, and you get to argue back.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Wow, Season 2 Episode 22, Wire. Garak does some real heavy lifting here. Great episode!

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    Commander ZoomshrykeCambiataShadowenoverride367MsAnthropyRMS OceanicSnicketysnickchrono_traveller
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Lol, next episode is a standard oh no alternate dimension where Bajor is the fascist empire.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Lol, next episode is a standard oh no alternate dimension where Bajor is the fascist empire.

    Hey now, that's not just an alternate dimension, that's THE alternate dimension. With goatees!

    ShadowenCommander ZoomMsAnthropyRMS OceanicMatevSnicketysnickchrono_traveller
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Lol, next episode is a standard oh no alternate dimension where Bajor is the fascist empire.

    Hey now, that's not just an alternate dimension, that's THE alternate dimension. With goatees!

    And even sexier Kira.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    shrykeoverride367MsAnthropyautono-wally, erotibot300RMS OceanicMatevMegaMan001SnicketysnickHarry DresdenMonwynAbsoluteZerochrono_travellerTurkson
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Lol, next episode is a standard oh no alternate dimension where Bajor is the fascist empire.

    Hey now, that's not just an alternate dimension, that's THE alternate dimension. With goatees!

    And even sexier Kira.

    Just a more honest Kira.

    The Good Dimension could have Stupidy Sexy Kira too, but they're all "what about the rules, Kira" and "that's not an accepted uniform, Kira" and "stop enslaving the command crew, Kira".

    StrikorMatevDonnictonShadowenMsAnthropyhlprmnkyAbsoluteZerochrono_travellerTurkson
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Poor goatee'd Spock :(

    Commander ZoomStrikor
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Poor goatee'd Spock :(

    *double takes*

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    SnicketysnickRMS OceanicStrikorCambiata
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Poor goatee'd Spock :(

    *double takes*

    fascinating

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
    RMS OceanicCasualHarry DresdenAbsoluteZerochrono_traveller
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

    AuralynxMancingtomWinkyThat_GuyRMS OceanicMrMonroePailryderShadowenStrikorMsAnthropySnicketysnickCommander ZoomhlprmnkyBloodySlothJacobkoshAbsoluteZerooverride367MegaMan001NightslyrMatevJandaruTOGSolidchrono_travellerSpace Coyote
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Lol, next episode is a standard oh no alternate dimension where Bajor is the fascist empire.

    Hey now, that's not just an alternate dimension, that's THE alternate dimension. With goatees!

    And even sexier Kira.

    Just a more honest Kira.

    The Good Dimension could have Stupidy Sexy Kira too, but they're all "what about the rules, Kira" and "that's not an accepted uniform, Kira" and "stop enslaving the command crew, Kira".

    Whatever your pro / con position on Horny Kira might be, Nana Visitor was apparently having fun in those episodes, so good for her.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

    autono-wally, erotibot300ShadowenStrikorNightslyrMatev
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    the actual inciting incident for that episode where Garak kills a guy on the abandoned space station

    CambiataShadowenStrikorAbsoluteZeroHahnsoo1
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    the actual inciting incident for that episode where Garak kills a guy on the abandoned space station

    Not a court in the world would convict him.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

    chrono_traveller
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    the actual inciting incident for that episode where Garak kills a guy on the abandoned space station

    Not a court in the world would convict him.

    Yeah this is why I'm super glad you told me about your fabric scissors immediately.

    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
    CambiataShadowen
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    the actual inciting incident for that episode where Garak kills a guy on the abandoned space station

    Not a court in the world would convict him.

    That would require judges not clumsy enough to keep accidentally falling to tragic and unexpected deaths mid-trial so yeah, no convictions possible.

    Judges are just such an uncoordinated bunch, it's a real shame.

    StrikorDonnictonPailryderShadowen
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Garak has a very important message about using a textile artist's good scissors for cutting something other than fabric.

    6o6e7n2qwoid.jpg

    the actual inciting incident for that episode where Garak kills a guy on the abandoned space station

    Not a court in the world would convict him.

    Yeah this is why I'm super glad you told me about your fabric scissors immediately.

    Ha ha, my special ones also have their own sheath, so they're hard to mistake for the regular scissors.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

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