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[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    CambiataStrikorJacobkoshNightslyrPailryderMsAnthropyAbsoluteZeroLanlaornSealMegaMan001
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    There's a "trailer" for Strange New Worlds that I refuse to post. It's 1:55, and includes 1:35 seconds of footage from TNG, Picard, Lower Decks, and Discovery and 20 seconds of logos. There is one scene lasting less than a second that might actually be from the new show but I'm 60% sure it's Discovery, too.

    Hevach on
    chrono_traveller
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    1970s tech
    It’s maybe significant, or maybe not, that the probe is the fictional Voyager 6, rather than one of the actual two probes

    The idea of, say, Voyager 1 galloping off into an unknown region of space and mind melding with a cosmic intelligence is fundamentally ludicrous to me – it’s just so slow and primitive in Star Trekian terms. Voyager 1 will remain closer to our sun than any other star for the next 40,000 years, and its computer is many times slower and less advanced than the smart phone I’m writing this post on

    But perhaps the fictional Voyager 6 is more advanced. Although they made it look exactly like the real Voyager probes so...maybe not

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_program

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Voyager_6

    wandering on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    B4 is literally Tom Paris. They wanted a specific character but didn't want to have to put another name in the credits.

    StrikorNightslyrchrono_travellerAbsoluteZero
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    B4 is literally Tom Paris. They wanted a specific character but didn't want to have to put another name in the credits.

    Not quite. B4 has no personality. Tom Paris basically is Locarno.

    Lore would have made more sense thematically since we'd be running with this "dark mirror" idea. Both Picard and Data confronting the them that could have been.

    PailryderAbsoluteZero
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    The most baffling thing about Nemesis is they decided to make a movie about evil Picard and then cast someone other than Patrick Stewart to play him ?????

    At least we’ll always have Conspiracy Theory and Green Room for our evil Patrick Stewart needs

    wandering on
    JacobkoshMsAnthropychrono_traveller
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    1970s tech
    It’s maybe significant, or maybe not, that the probe is the fictional Voyager 6, rather than one of the actual two probes

    The idea of, say, Voyager I galloping off into an unknown region of space and mind melding with a cosmic intelligence is fundamentally ludicrous to me – it’s just so slow and primitive in Star Trekian terms. Voyager I will remain closer to our sun than any other star for the next 40,000 years, and its computer is many times slower and less advanced than the smart phone I’m writing this post on

    But perhaps the fictional Voyager VI is more advanced. Although they made it look exactly like the real Voyager probes so...maybe not

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Voyager_6

    According to Mike Okuda's official(ish) timeline it was launched in 1999, but dialog in the movie suggests 1977-1979. Either way, in Star Trek, Sol isn't immune to weird space shit. Remember Ares IV, a 3 man Mars orbiter, also got sucked into the Delta Quadrant.

    wandering
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    I may not have seen Nemesis somehow , and now kind of want to?

    wanderinghlprmnky
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Here is my annual "I will never forgive First Contact for the Borg Queen" post.

    like I said,

    I mean there's a reason why First Contact was a fun movie for people who hadn't ever even really seen Star Trek, it doesn't really care that much about what came before. Picard's ahab complex is perfectly fine if you hear that he was taken by the borg, but not so much if you've seen the episodes where he, not defeated, but came to terms with that trauma

    in many ways it's a better action movie than ST2009

    override367 on
    MsAnthropy
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    I may not have seen Nemesis somehow , and now kind of want to?
    Relatedly, I strongly recommend not watching the following video, because it will make you want to watch all the Star Trek movies, including, I'm sorry to say, the TNG movies

    CambiataPailryderchrono_traveller
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    That video was super good

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    see317MegaMan001
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    TMP could use a little more plot and moments of human interaction but I love the big moody vistas.

    For all that I love Star Trek in its various forms it only rarely has given me that elusive sci-fi sense of wonder, of cosmic vastness (because it's a TV show, of course; it's not something I'm blaming it for). But TMP gives me that every time. The contrast between how huge the Enterprise looks in the opening sequence versus seeing it as a tiny speck against V'Ger's immensity never fails to take my breath away.

    It's also the most genuinely science-fictional of any of the Trek movies.

    TMP is probably there most high-concept Trek ever got.

    I will never understand people who can and will spend hours lauding 2001 while sneering at TMP.

    uH3IcEi.png
    JacobkoshNightslyrMsAnthropy
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

    V'ger isn't the unknowable cosmic being, it's TMP's version of the Monolith. Sorta. It's a thing touched and infused by the unknowable cosmic beings.

    I know it wasn't a commercially viable movie, but I still wish the "new life" created by Decker and V'ger was either mentioned again or showed up in Star Trek again. Maybe Lower Decks will do it, they'd be the ones, if anyone does.

    There was a book I read when I was like nine that posited V'Ger as the origin of the Borg.

    I'm pretty sure someone ghost-wrote it for Shatner? I doubt it holds up but at the time I was just like "oh sure that makes sense"

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    "Guys. GUYS. Listen. We were all wrong about the carbon units. Carbon units are AWESOME. You should all go out and get some of your own, and join with them."

    Commander Zoom on
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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    the thing about carbon units is.... they're all made out of meat

    Commander ZoomJandaruchrono_travelleroverride367
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    Nemesis should've had Ron Perlman!Reman as the main villain, with Shinzon as the conflicted anti-villain who's redeemed.

    Then, end with Picard dying instead of Data. We end with Riker in command of the Enterprise with Data as first officer, and Shinzon off to make his own way in the universe. That ties up the lingering plot threads from the series and Picard's whole "last of my line" thing from Generations.

    Strip out the "Troi gets raped again" bullshit for some Q and it'd be a proper sendoff for the TNG crew.

  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    Nemesis should've had Ron Perlman!Reman as the main villain, with Shinzon as the conflicted anti-villain who's redeemed.

    Then, end with Picard dying instead of Data. We end with Riker in command of the Enterprise with Data as first officer, and Shinzon off to make his own way in the universe. That ties up the lingering plot threads from the series and Picard's whole "last of my line" thing from Generations.

    Strip out the "Troi gets raped again" bullshit for some Q and it'd be a proper sendoff for the TNG crew.

    Only if shinzon teams up with Tom Riker and Lore to become the most badass crew ever

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
    wanderingJacobkoshNightslyrMsAnthropyDonnictonoverride367
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    sd1d7smc9mv8.jpg

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

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  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited February 26
    Update: We watched All Good Things instead! It’s still good. Not as good as twenty or thirty years ago when I first watched it (internal screaming). But still very solid.

    Now watching the documentary made at the same time as All Good Things, and it is incredibly 90’s cheesy and we are loving everything about it.

    I do want to know the scenes behind the behind the scenes though. What was it really like?

    ETA: we looked at 90’s era Berman, slicked back hair and all, and both seemed to remember he was a scumbag.

    Behold, the receipts:

    Spoiler: Berman is, indeed, a scumbag, and some of the anecdotes about the way female cast members were treated are both wild and upsetting.

    CroakerBC on
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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Speaking of Romulans, my biggest disappointment with Picard is that it largely abandoned them for Mass Effect lite. I want to know more about their culture - their food, their music, their myths, weird common phrases they may say, all of it. Especially with how it compares to Vulcan equivalents. How does their alphabet work? Why is most of their stuff green? Did they always use a base-10 number system?

    All the things, big and small. I wanna know.

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  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

    V'ger isn't the unknowable cosmic being, it's TMP's version of the Monolith. Sorta. It's a thing touched and infused by the unknowable cosmic beings.

    I know it wasn't a commercially viable movie, but I still wish the "new life" created by Decker and V'ger was either mentioned again or showed up in Star Trek again. Maybe Lower Decks will do it, they'd be the ones, if anyone does.

    Didn’t they already do that? What else is the
    koala
    supposed to be?

    _
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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    Shinzon off to make his own way in the universe. That ties up the lingering plot threads from the series and Picard's whole "last of my line" thing from Generations.
    Ehhhh. I haven’t seen Generations in a while but surely the point is that Picard feels a little conflicted about the family life he could’ve had vs the life in Starfleet he chose. If, for some bizarre reason, he really wanted genetic offspring that he didn’t raise himself, I’m sure he could pop on down to the nearest Starfleet sperm bank

    wandering on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Update: We watched All Good Things instead! It’s still good. Not as good as twenty or thirty years ago when I first watched it (internal screaming). But still very solid.

    Now watching the documentary made at the same time as All Good Things, and it is incredibly 90’s cheesy and we are loving everything about it.

    I do want to know the scenes behind the behind the scenes though. What was it really like?

    ETA: we looked at 90’s era Berman, slicked back hair and all, and both seemed to remember he was a scumbag.

    Behold, the receipts:

    Spoiler: Berman is, indeed, a scumbag, and some of the anecdotes about the way female cast members were treated are both wild and upsetting.

    Every Star Trek thread should have Fuck Rick Berman in the op.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    Nemesis should've had Ron Perlman!Reman as the main villain, with Shinzon as the conflicted anti-villain who's redeemed.

    Then, end with Picard dying instead of Data. We end with Riker in command of the Enterprise with Data as first officer, and Shinzon off to make his own way in the universe. That ties up the lingering plot threads from the series and Picard's whole "last of my line" thing from Generations.

    Strip out the "Troi gets raped again" bullshit for some Q and it'd be a proper sendoff for the TNG crew.

    Only if shinzon teams up with Tom Riker and Lore to become the most badass crew ever
    Picture this: Evil Picard, played by Pat Stew, has teamed up with Lore and Tom Riker, and only Picard’s time traveling younger self, played by Tom Hardy, can stop them.

    But young Picard needs help. Who does he turn to? That’s right: Benjamin Sisko. Now we’re cooking with plasma. It’s payback time for Wolf 359, bitch.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Here is my annual "I will never forgive First Contact for the Borg Queen" post.

    I'll say this; from an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense.

    The borg are all linked together, and without any sort of hierarchy (i.e. one super drone, or a council of super drones or whatever) to make decisions, they'd likely have to poll all available drones and try to come to a consensus. That might work for a team, or even a cube; but to fully guide the entire Borg race in decisions on plans potentially centuries out, it's more efficient to put that decision making into a single vetted entity.

    That said, making the Queen basically just an evil cyborg lady who gets the hots for everyone is where this falls apart.

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Here is my annual "I will never forgive First Contact for the Borg Queen" post.

    I'll say this; from an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense.

    The borg are all linked together, and without any sort of hierarchy (i.e. one super drone, or a council of super drones or whatever) to make decisions, they'd likely have to poll all available drones and try to come to a consensus. That might work for a team, or even a cube; but to fully guide the entire Borg race in decisions on plans potentially centuries out, it's more efficient to put that decision making into a single vetted entity.

    That said, making the Queen basically just an evil cyborg lady who gets the hots for everyone is where this falls apart.

    The Borg landed on the horny hottie planet and added its biological and sexual technological distinctiveness to their own.

    Hahnsoo1 on
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    If you think of the Borg like a self-evolving macro-organism, developing a personality makes sense. When we see the Borg for the first time in TNG, they really are just a big, aimless bacterial organism; assimilating superior tech/species is a hugely generic and broad "purpose", more like a combined instinct to reproduce/feed than any kind of chosen goal. But it's also advancing rapidly and incorporates a nigh-infinite level processing power that is unrestricted by distance. So over the span of a couple decades, I could certainly see it developing into a sentient race; not a race of sentients, but a race that is itself sentient. Or maybe this has been a burgeoning thing for the last thousand years of Borg existence, and it is now effectively a baby. That could've been pretty damn interesting to see, with the Borg coming to understand that the individuals it assimilates are hurt and killed and maybe assimilation is actually pretty horrible. Then the Federation more or less helps the Borg to try and guide them towards being a responsible, fulfilled species.

    Not to mention it would be pretty hilarious to have an exasperated Q show up after the fact and ask Picard if the Federation seriously adopted the Borg. And Picard just asks "Well yes, it just seemed so obvious. Were we not supposed to?"

    But yeah, the Borg developing a ruling individual is just butt-grade poo. It would be like your brain nominating one single brain cell to decide what the whole brain does; there's just no way any given brain cell could handle that.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Got to the DS9 two-parter where Dukat heel-turns and Worf finally, FINALLY get to really kick some ass.

    It took way too many seasons of Trek to get to a storyline where Worf actually feels like a straight-up badass.

    wanderingDoodmann
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I feel like Dukat really captures "Make Cardassia Great Again", and all that implies to our modern sensibilities.

    Hahnsoo1MancingtomCambiataAuralynxNightslyroverride367DoodmannMatevAbsoluteZero
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    When Martok of all people is like "Your honor is satisfied, chill out", you know you're going the extra mile.

    Hahnsoo1Nightslyr
  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I like some of the ideas in Nemesis but the particulars and the execution is bad.

    Also, they should have brought back Lore instead of inventing this B4 garbage.

    Nemesis should've had Ron Perlman!Reman as the main villain, with Shinzon as the conflicted anti-villain who's redeemed.

    Then, end with Picard dying instead of Data. We end with Riker in command of the Enterprise with Data as first officer, and Shinzon off to make his own way in the universe. That ties up the lingering plot threads from the series and Picard's whole "last of my line" thing from Generations.

    Strip out the "Troi gets raped again" bullshit for some Q and it'd be a proper sendoff for the TNG crew.

    Only if shinzon teams up with Tom Riker and Lore to become the most badass crew ever

    Yeah, they also needed a Duras sibling for Worf, that Vulcan lady with the evil psychic device from Gambit against Troi, and an evil former lover of a Scottish ghost alien for Bev.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Every time I watch Caretaker, my exasperation and disappointment flare anew. The Kazon might be the dumbest fucking race in Star Trek, and that includes the Pakleds. They win the prize for me for possessing ships capable of traveling tens of thousands of times the speed of light, yet are somehow unable to find ... water.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Every time I watch Caretaker, my exasperation and disappointment flare anew. The Kazon might be the dumbest fucking race in Star Trek, and that includes the Pakleds. They win the prize for me for possessing ships capable of traveling tens of thousands of times the speed of light, yet are somehow unable to find ... water.
    yes

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    override367
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Update: We watched All Good Things instead! It’s still good. Not as good as twenty or thirty years ago when I first watched it (internal screaming). But still very solid.

    Now watching the documentary made at the same time as All Good Things, and it is incredibly 90’s cheesy and we are loving everything about it.

    I do want to know the scenes behind the behind the scenes though. What was it really like?

    ETA: we looked at 90’s era Berman, slicked back hair and all, and both seemed to remember he was a scumbag.

    Behold, the receipts:

    Spoiler: Berman is, indeed, a scumbag, and some of the anecdotes about the way female cast members were treated are both wild and upsetting.

    "Yet we still hold him in high regard"

    We do? I certainly don't.

    sig.gif
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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don't think there's a lot of overlap in the Venn diagram of "People into Trek enough to know who Rick Berman is" and "People who don't know Rick Berman is a piece of shit."

    Hahnsoo1Inquisitor77
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

    V'ger isn't the unknowable cosmic being, it's TMP's version of the Monolith. Sorta. It's a thing touched and infused by the unknowable cosmic beings.

    I know it wasn't a commercially viable movie, but I still wish the "new life" created by Decker and V'ger was either mentioned again or showed up in Star Trek again. Maybe Lower Decks will do it, they'd be the ones, if anyone does.

    Didn’t they already do that? What else is the
    koala
    supposed to be?

    "WHY IS HE SMILING? WHAT DOES HE KNOW?!"

    uH3IcEi.png
    hlprmnkyCommander Zoom
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Here is my annual "I will never forgive First Contact for the Borg Queen" post.

    I'll say this; from an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense.

    The borg are all linked together, and without any sort of hierarchy (i.e. one super drone, or a council of super drones or whatever) to make decisions, they'd likely have to poll all available drones and try to come to a consensus. That might work for a team, or even a cube; but to fully guide the entire Borg race in decisions on plans potentially centuries out, it's more efficient to put that decision making into a single vetted entity.

    That said, making the Queen basically just an evil cyborg lady who gets the hots for everyone is where this falls apart.

    Also if every decision was polled the Borg would pretty much immediately cease to exist since a huge proportion of their population would say "FUCK THIS SHIT LET ME OUT," given that being assimilated is uniformly described as hugely traumatic.

    Prior to Best of Both Worlds there was room for them to be something like the Conjoined in Alaster Reynolds's Revelation Space books, but that ship had long since sailed by the time First Contact came out.

    Monwyn on
    uH3IcEi.png
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Every time I watch Caretaker, my exasperation and disappointment flare anew. The Kazon might be the dumbest fucking race in Star Trek, and that includes the Pakleds. They win the prize for me for possessing ships capable of traveling tens of thousands of times the speed of light, yet are somehow unable to find ... water.
    they should team up with the aliens from Signs, who are bad at avoiding water

    AuralynxNightslyrJacobkoshCommander ZoomMsAnthropy
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I'm impressed at how much Whoopi looks like a DM from just 3-4 screenshots. Anyway this one got a chuckle out of me.

    2cio7tovjfc4.jpg

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    Watched Power Play, and it’s frustrating because from an entertainment perspective it’s quite good (evil Troi/Data/O’Brien are fun), but on the other hand it fails to live up to Star Trek’s ideals. The twist is that the sneering bad guys are so evil because they are (dun dun dun) criminals from a prison planet may have played well back when the Clintons were calling people “super predators”,* but now just comes across as ugly pro-prison propaganda.

    -

    Speaking of odious politicians, Reagan was evil, but you have to admit the fucker could be charming:
    Former President Ronald Reagan visited the set during filming of [“Redemption”]. After being introduced to several actors dressed in full Klingon warrior garb, Reagan was asked what he thought of the Klingons. "I like them," he said. "They remind me of Congress."
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Redemption_(episode)

    -

    *The term “super predators” wasn’t actually coined until a couple years after this being episode aired, but as Star Trek has taught us, sometimes you need to fudge the timeline

    wandering on
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