As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

15657596162100

Posts

  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    TNG’s 1st season was uneven with some outright trash episodes, but you could see the potential and the chemistry between the cast if you gave it time to grow.

    I don’t remember having similar optimism about Voyager.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
    AuralynxKetarStrikorNightslyrJacobkosh
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The thing that intrigues me about Tarantino doing Trek is that, for all the brouhaha around explicit language, gore, and violence, his films often hinge on character, tension, and subtlety. For example, in Inglorious Basterds, there's the fantastic:

    This is the kind of stuff that Trek thrives upon.

    DanHibikiBloodySlothJacobkoshDoodmannKana
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited June 20
    The hilarious thing about about that advice is like, going by the clip they’re talking about, that’s not a hard thing to explain


    “It means you realized that this weird phenomenon precedes a big fuck off ship about to attack, because the same thing happened when your dad’s ship went down by an attack by this big fuck off ship. Therefore, you realize what’s going to happen is a big fuck off ship is gonna attack”

    It’s not that hard to explain it! It’s just weirdly wordy instead of being direct about what the fuck is happening! And JJ couldn’t manage that!

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Shadowen
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    DS9 also has the best pilot episode in establishing a lot of stuff while also having a good sci-fi hook and is also a character episode. It be stuffed.

    shrykeMegaMan001DevoutlyApatheticShadowenAuralynxDark_SideNightslyrhlprmnkyGiantGeek2020DoodmannLord_Asmodeus
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    I remember he did an episode of CSI. It was a bit weirdly directed, but it was still recognizably a CSI episode. I don't know if that helps though.

    If I remember right, it was the episode where:
    One of the team members gets kidnapped and buried alive.

    That was a real intense and fucked up episode. In an entertaining way, but man was I left unhinged for a bit afterwards.

    That was his? It's like the only episode of CSI I actually remember.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 20
    Matev wrote: »
    TNG’s 1st season was uneven with some outright trash episodes, but you could see the potential and the chemistry between the cast if you gave it time to grow.

    I don’t remember having similar optimism about Voyager.

    Voyager had a pretty good premise - a mixed crew of Starfleet and Maqui having to band together to survive the completely unexplored delta quandrant (unexplored by Starfleet; obviously the beings that live there know what's up.) while being unable to easily resupply.

    It just that it didn't seem they wanted to engaged with those ideas very much and it winds up being being bland because of it. Like, the conflict between Starfleet and Maqui crewmembers fades incredibly fast, they rarely deal with resource scarcity (cue the shuttle and photon torpedo count) and it being the third of three recent series, they've started to run out of fresh ideas and as such the Delta Quadrant doesn't really feel anything special.

    That said, Enterprise also has a great premise (the founding of the Federation, seeing the Andorian and Tellerites as antagonistic powers instead of longfast allies) and they immediately shit the bed by deciding they couldn't handle it just being a prequel and thus injecting the Temporal Cold War stuff.

    Undead Scottsman on
    Commander ZoomNightslyrKanaLord_Asmodeus
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    The hilarious thing about about that advice is like, going by the clip they’re talking about, that’s not a hard thing to explain


    “It means you realized that this weird phenomenon precedes a big fuck off ship about to attack, because the same thing happened when your dad’s ship went down by an attack by this big fuck off ship. Therefore, you realize what’s going to happen is a big fuck off ship is gonna attack”

    It’s not that hard to explain it! It’s just weirdly wordy instead of being direct about what the fuck is happening! And JJ couldn’t manage that!

    I'm sure he could have explained it, what's damning is that he thinks it's completely unimportant to do so. He's clearly of the "just turn your brain off" school of thought regarding any movie with action, which I always hate hearing and it's a shame such an influential guy buys into that.

    With regards to Tarantino, he's incredible at every aspect of a film, people talk about the violence in his movies but honestly I'm there for all the talking in between. I could listen to his characters go on about Italian Vogue or how to convincingly tell an amusing anecdote about a drug deal.

    I didn't know he was doing anything with Star Trek but if that's true then bring it on, I'm very interested in seeing what he does with it.

    hlprmnkyJacobkosh
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Abrams does a lot of things well.

    He's fucking fantastic at casting. Like basically every project he's in charge of has fantastic casting. I remember reading a review saying "Everyone should be so lucky as to direct a movie cast by JJ Abrams" and ... yeah.

    He's got a good eye for visuals and action and pacing. He knows how to keep things moving.

    And love it or hate it, he knows how to ape the feel of other things. TFA gets a lot of the feel of Star Wars right. Super 8 really nails that 80s Amblin Spielberg feel when it's trying to and is honestly compelling while doing so.


    He's just also got limitations that have steadily revealed themselves, imo, to be something he just probably can't grow out of.

    He doesn't understand characters or stories on a fundamental level it seems. He doesn't understand the idea of character motivation or themes as a thing that motivates how a story moves from A to B. And he understands how to copy a thing but not why you should copy a thing or what that thing originally meant and thus how to reference it in any way other then just doing the thing again.


    So yeah, he could make a Star Trek movie that was brilliantly cast and fun and fast and entertaining to watch but that was ultimately hollow and meaningless.

    It did a good job of being a summer blockbuster and getting the Star Trek brand a bigger place in the public consciousness.

    We evidently had different experiences of ‘09 Trek, which I don’t think was any more “hollow and meaningless” than any other Trek film. I’m less inclined to argue the toss on the other two, mind.

    I think you can look at films like Wrath of Khan or Undiscovered Country as compared to ST 09 and see just a massive difference in terms of their focus on good character work, clear themes, how those characters and ideas motivate the plot at every step, etc, etc.

    I think you can look at Wrath of Khan (especially) and Undiscovered Country and see excellent, character driven film.

    But I can suggest, firstly, that character driven film is not always the best cinema, and that even if it were, ‘09 brings its own. The triangle relationship between Spock-McCoy-Kirk. Kirk’s rebellious nature, chiselled into something harder by the demands of command. Spock, the half-human loner, looking for and refusing connection, trying not to sob in the pits of the science institute. The flashes we see of the ensemble - Uhura’s banter and determination, Sulu’s courage, illuminate those characters in decisive strokes.

    You can’t establish a crew as well as they did, without that character work. It’s there.

    Theme is harder to unpick, but I think the through-line of ‘09 is about friendship and duty. It’s not subtle, but it’s not trying to be, and that’s no bad thing.

    I think ‘09 has a plot, but I don’t find it’s characters to be ciphers, or the subtext it does have too tricky to dig into. It may not live on the same level as Khan or UC as drama, but it does what it wants, and it’s a story that I think certainly has soul. They’re not just there to sell merch and popcorn.

    Like I say, maybe we experienced it differently. That’s cool!

    I'm not just talking about films being character-driven vs not-character-driven. That's why I mention things like themes and the way a story sets up and pays off various ideas. The way things connect together using "but" and "therefore", instead of "and then".

    The film has it's characters somewhat sketched out but so little of what happens is motivated by anything but just "and then another thing happened". And the character arcs that do try to assert themselves (basically just Kirk and Spock) are kinda of vague and unfocused. Like a lot of JJ's stuff, it does good setup and bad payoff and doesn't pay much attention to creating coherent plot or character arcs. I enjoyed both ST09 and Into Darkness to a good degree. But they have their limitations.

    I mean, I think Chris Pine talking about being in the movie kinda sums up so much of what is wrong with JJ Abrams:

    Not for nothing, but I did see you talk about themes. Which is why I also talked about themes.
    We just...don't agree. That's okay! I actually agree with you a lot more WRT Into Darkness; I just don't think as many of those criticisms are as valid for '09 on its face.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    I just had a disturbing thought and I need to run it by you, fam

    Lemma 1:
    Trek that is generally accepted to be Good™: TOS, TNG, DS9
    Trek that has problems, detractors, reasonable-people-can-disagree, etc.: the rest of it

    Lemma 2:
    Trek that was supported by either an established network that didn’t Need This One Thing To Succeed, Pronto™ or by the largesse of Lucille Ball, personally: TOS, TNG, DS9
    Trek that was launched as a Tentpole Franchise Offering™ to prop up UPN, Paramount+, etc. etc.: the rest of it

    Are these …correct? Am I missing something? I’m one more Father’s Day Weekend ‘Perhaps I will Have Another’ Cocktail away from launching a petition.org petition for Lady Gaga or someone else famous and wealthy to pick a new Trek pitch, bankroll it, and make that the New NuTrek.

    Historiographers of the franchise, please - talk me out of it.

    just real quick: TNG had no support of a major network or of Desilu. It was made direct for syndication and was one of the first (if not the first) shows to do that and it being a huge success was no guarantee

    steam_sig.png
    kHDRsTc.png
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    TNG’s 1st season was uneven with some outright trash episodes, but you could see the potential and the chemistry between the cast if you gave it time to grow.

    I don’t remember having similar optimism about Voyager.

    Voyager had a pretty good premise - a mixed crew of Starfleet and Maqui having to band together to survive the completely unexplored delta quandrant (unexplored by Starfleet; obviously the beings that live there know what's up.) while being unable to easily resupply.

    It just didn't seem to want to engaged with those ideas very much and winds up being being bland because of it. Like, the conflict between Starfleet and Maqui crewmembers fades incredibly fast, they rarely deal with resource scarcity (cue the shuttle and photon torpedo count) and it being the third of three recent series, they've started to run out of fresh ideas and as such the Delta Quadrant doesn't really feel anything special.

    That said, Enterprise also has a great premise (the founding of the Federation, seeing the Andorian and Tellerites as antagonistic powers instead of longfast allies) and they immediately shit the bed by deciding they couldn't handle it just being a prequel and thus injecting the Temporal Cold War stuff.

    Which is especially ironic since the whole point of it being set in the Delta quadrant was so that they could explore new ideas and directions with the series.

    Nope. Borg.

    Borg Borg Borg Borg Borg.

    Also Borg.

  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Yah, Borg are/were scary, but only if used in moderation. You hit the Borg button too often and they get.....well, they get Worfed.

    Like, it could have been interesting to explore a quadrant with the Borg as a major power, if either there had been other weird and wild stuff to keep them in check, or you have actual interesting ideas for portraying what rule under the Collective would look like on the day to day.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    TNG’s 1st season was uneven with some outright trash episodes, but you could see the potential and the chemistry between the cast if you gave it time to grow.

    I don’t remember having similar optimism about Voyager.

    Early TNG was also hurt by many episodes being from ideas of even partial to entire scripts made for TOS/Phase 2, it took longer to find it's feet than DS9 because it was being built on a foundation meant for a different house. Data makes a poor Spock and Troi a bad Uhura but there were times when they were literally reading lines first written for those characters.

    Voyager got some hand me down scripts, too, but not as many and they went through the wringer first so they're not as obvious. I feel like it found it's feet much faster than TNG, it just never figured out what to do with them from there.

    Dark_SideCroakerBCNightslyr
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    ouchies wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Voyager had problems before it had rampant network interference. For that matter, what writers have said was the first big act of network interference (shoving Neelix to the back and adding a new character) worked out to the benefit of the show. The WWE cross promotion did nothing for anyone, but I think a bigger problem was that the old TNG staff filtered over to DS9, Voyager, or left for other projects, Voyager did not win the split.

    There were so many problems that sort of screwed Voyager from the start. Berman, love or hate him, was being pulled in a bunch of different directions with his graduation to doing trek films, and the studio was pushing Voyager hard and on a tight deadline because it was supposed to be the flagship show for the new UPN network. It has a plot made for gritty grimdark trek, but DS9 was already doing that, so instead they tried to rehash TNG, but with worse characters and sloppy writing. The big sell was it was TNG but on a ship not named Enterprise! (But is basically the Enterprise anyway)

    I thought the consistent creative through-line for Star Trek was TNG-VOY-ENT, with DS9 sort of its own side project. I have some kind of vague memory that when DS9 started in '92, it carried over a few people from the TNG staff, but was deliberately encouraged to go in it's own direction. Berman was involved, but he clearly didn't give it any more than a passing glance. TNG ended in '94, and the majority of that staff just turned around and started working on VOY for its premier in '95. This makes a lot of sense considering the renewed focus on episodic structure, the rehashing of TNG story lines, and an overall similarity in tone (there is a conflict that will be resolved in 42 minutes, with a minimum of consequences, stakes, or growth). VOY ended in 2001 and a few short months later, ENT premiered that same year, again carrying over a lot of the same staff, making the same kind of episodes for the third time over.

    I wonder if this is just head cannon I made up back then, so long ago that it seems true to me now. But looking back, it makes a good deal of sense to think that there was one largely consistent group of people making Star Trek from 1987 to 2005, while there were some weird theater dorks making their own show, whatever that's about, over there from 1992 to 1999.

    A few very key staff members went to DS9 (Michael Pillar, Ron D. Moore, off the top of my head.) Moore especially wrote like half the episodes on typical top-ten lists for TNG and basically ran DS9 after TNG wrapped up, and Pillar had run the TNG writer's room for years.

    uH3IcEi.png
    Commander ZoomMorganV
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    The thing that intrigues me about Tarantino doing Trek is that, for all the brouhaha around explicit language, gore, and violence, his films often hinge on character, tension, and subtlety. For example, in Inglorious Basterds, there's the fantastic:

    This is the kind of stuff that Trek thrives upon.

    Which is why he would have been so great for Picard. I bet with Tarantino at the helm the show doesn't jettison it's two best characters 3 episodes in.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Man, Voyager had some real potential.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    CaedwyrStrikorNightslyrautono-wally, erotibot300SneakshlprmnkyCommander ZoomshrykeGiantGeek2020DoodmannboogedybooLord_Asmodeus
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Opening season of DS9 is very solid.

    Opening season of TNG is not great but was better then it seems now imo.

    Season 1 of TNG is better than season 2 IMO.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
    Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Opening season of DS9 is very solid.

    Opening season of TNG is not great but was better then it seems now imo.

    Season 1 of TNG is better than season 2 IMO.

    Having a clips episode in just your second season was the height of bad writing. Yes, it was because of a writers strike but still.

    steam_sig.png
    PailryderStrikorDark_SideDoodmannNightslyr
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    S1 wasn't as bad as I remembered, but S2 has Guinan going for it. Excluding the clips show because it would be unfair to include it, I only noped out of 2 episodes in both seasons. Code of Honor and Justice in S1, Outrageous Okana and whatever the Wesley falls in love with alien girl one is in S2.

    Both seasons get bonus points for featuring The Constellation class, though. I just love those 23rd century designs and aesthetics.

    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Oh, if we're talking about favorite ships, mine has to be the USS Equinox. While Voyager is nowhere near being my favorite Trek series it does have my favorite ship. I really like the small Destroyer astentic with a forward facing launch bay. It's the kind of design I wished Voyager had instead of the "puffy" design we go.

    4kbjdqnxr3bm.jpg

    steam_sig.png
    CroakerBCGiantGeek2020Dark_Sideautono-wally, erotibot300Lord_Asmodeus
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Man, Voyager had some real potential.

    Yeah, somehow wasted potential is worse than just a terrible show.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Richyautono-wally, erotibot300StrikorShadowenNightslyrKanaLord_Asmodeus
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Man, Voyager had some real potential.

    Yeah, somehow wasted potential is worse than just a terrible show.

    Just remembering everything it could have been. The Federation alone, trying to balance high minded Federation ideals with survival. Trying to respect the Prime Directive while some ancient alien race had the resources you need. The whole Maquis introduction to the crew.

    And just didn't get any of that.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    StrikorShadowenDoodmannCommander ZoomNightslyrLord_Asmodeus
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Man, Voyager had some real potential.

    Yeah, somehow wasted potential is worse than just a terrible show.

    Just remembering everything it could have been. The Federation alone, trying to balance high minded Federation ideals with survival. Trying to respect the Prime Directive while some ancient alien race had the resources you need. The whole Maquis introduction to the crew.

    And just didn't get any of that.

    Year of Hell lasting an actual year.

    sig.gif
    ShadowenNightslyr
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    JacobkoshCommander Zoom
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    the only chemistry that worked in Voyager for me was Seven and the Doctor

    everyone else's personality was a total blank slate or just really annoying.

    Kana
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    steam_sig.png
    chrono_travellerStrikorCambiataShadowen
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Every infant is vehemently Libertarian and earnestly believes they're the first to come up with such radical-yet-obvious ideas for how society should be built and they just will not shut the fuck up about any of it. Wake up at three AM to feed the baby and you can also expect to get pummelled by a long-winded irony-free screaming-speech about the virtues of the government leaving everyone to their own devices.

    So everybody just opts for the crying and babbling instead because at least the babbling is sometimes cute.

    That_GuyMonwynDonnictonGiantGeek2020shrykechrono_travellerCroakerBCStrikorBloodySlothJacobkoshShadowenMatevCommander ZoomMechMantisMancingtomNightslyrMsAnthropyboogedybooLord_Asmodeus
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    "I want what the dog's eating."

    DanHibikiMorganVchrono_travellerGiantGeek2020StrikorJacobkoshShadowenCommander ZoomHerrCronNightslyrMsAnthropyKanaLord_Asmodeus
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    That_GuyWinky
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Captain Sisko was born and raised in Louisiana so I prefer to imagine the tech translates in real time to what the listener is most comfortable with. Everything Chief O'Brien or Odo say comes back to Sisko's ears as broken French with a Cajun accent.

    see317GiantGeek2020StrikorCambiataPailryderchrono_travellerShadowenMatevNightslyrJandaruLord_Asmodeus
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited June 21
    the only chemistry that worked in Voyager for me was Seven and the Doctor

    everyone else's personality was a total blank slate or just really annoying.
    Currently, I am most of the way through Atlantis on my Stargate watch / re-watch. SG-1 is done, Universe is next.

    The Doctor (Picardo) plays a minor character in SG-1 who by Atlantis is a regular cast member. I really like him in season 5 of Atlantis (even with a Federation joke thrown in).

    Lot of Star Trek people show up in the show, too, even if one of the ones who has a recurring role is from.....Enterprise....

    ...anyways, this is a lot to say Picardo is awesome.

    **

    Binging also allows you to notice things in TV shows that are running gags that aren't obvious because they seem more like gags for the writers to entertain themselves then for the viewers (given they're sometimes seasons apart)….

    Can't think of any for Star Trek atm, but in Stargate a character (different one every time) will suggest blowing something up as a diversion and another (again different every time) will say that's dumb / act confused "Why would they run TOWARDS the explosion? Wouldn't they run away from it?".

    When I recognized them re-using that seasons apart I laughed way harder than I should've.

    **

    Separately, Stargate did an amazing job of keeping minor characters throughout the show(s) runs because of course the background characters with few lines should be consistent..!

    Bizazedo on
    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
    Mvrck
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I really liked the Richard Woolsey character in StarGate.

    steam_sig.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Captain Sisko was born and raised in Louisiana so I prefer to imagine the tech translates in real time to what the listener is most comfortable with. Everything Chief O'Brien or Odo say comes back to Sisko's ears as broken French with a Cajun accent.

    Would explain Picard's 'French accent'

    CambiataShadowenRMS OceanicNightslyrLord_Asmodeus
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Oh, if we're talking about favorite ships, mine has to be the USS Equinox. While Voyager is nowhere near being my favorite Trek series it does have my favorite ship. I really like the small Destroyer astentic with a forward facing launch bay. It's the kind of design I wished Voyager had instead of the "puffy" design we go.

    4kbjdqnxr3bm.jpg

    Did anyone really like the Voyager design? Real question. I've had ships that didn't look great at first but which grew on me over time (see: the Serenity on Firefly). But Voyager started off as "meh" and continued being "meh" during its entire run.

    That_GuyNightslyr
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Captain Sisko was born and raised in Louisiana so I prefer to imagine the tech translates in real time to what the listener is most comfortable with. Everything Chief O'Brien or Odo say comes back to Sisko's ears as broken French with a Cajun accent.

    Would explain Picard's 'French accent'

    Isn't French a dead language in TNG? Or am I thinking of Futurama?

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

    StrikorGiantGeek2020Nightslyr
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Oh, if we're talking about favorite ships, mine has to be the USS Equinox. While Voyager is nowhere near being my favorite Trek series it does have my favorite ship. I really like the small Destroyer astentic with a forward facing launch bay. It's the kind of design I wished Voyager had instead of the "puffy" design we go.

    4kbjdqnxr3bm.jpg

    the equinox is neat but i dunno, something about it always rubbed me the wrong way

    now, how about that steamrunner class!
    vls57c51f0vo.png

    or that akira class!
    590c3dc4d69e423e7d09d6cb7d586e1e.jpg

    aw ya, that's the stuff

    steam_sig.png
    kHDRsTc.png
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 21
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Oh, if we're talking about favorite ships, mine has to be the USS Equinox. While Voyager is nowhere near being my favorite Trek series it does have my favorite ship. I really like the small Destroyer astentic with a forward facing launch bay. It's the kind of design I wished Voyager had instead of the "puffy" design we go.

    4kbjdqnxr3bm.jpg

    The "landing pad" in front looks like a shuttle bay, but the notch at the front is a second deflector, like the little one on Voyager. The shuttle bay is at the ass end, visible at the squared off bit of the dorsal ridge between the nacelles. It's clearer from the MSD:
    janw2fx9lv61.png

    Hevach on
    SneaksGiantGeek2020Commander ZoomNightslyr
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    edited June 21
    I like the Intrepid-class design quite a bit - the Akira/Steamrunner/Norway design language that also informs the Sovereign-class is really good in a different way and I like it a lot too, but the Intrepid does something different for me.
    Its lines and form are all about efficiency - look at her from above, everything butts right up against the boundary of the warp envelope - almost none of the field’s volume is wasted. The nacelles are, to put it mildly, right-sized, while the deflector - that tool of many uses - is so large that the primary/secondary hull division seems to have been built around the array specs. This is not, as starships in Trek go, a design that speaks to speed or power, but to getting more Starfleet crews out into the quadrant, faster and further afield.
    She’s not going to play with the Akira and Steamrunner duo, those are built for rapid response and force projection. This ship is built out of all the science labs and packed-up industrial replicators and medical supply manufactories they didn’t leave room for on the Steamrunner.
    It’s exactly the ship you would build a hundred and fifty of to replace the Miranda variants and other Constitution-era spaceframes that don’t have any more full refits left in ‘em.
    A sleek, organic, elegant design for the boring, unsexy work that keeps a quadrant-spanning Federation held together. Peak Starfleet.

    hlprmnky on
    _
    iOS: hlprmnky | PSN: hlprmnky_2 | SC2: Callow.126
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    I like the Intrepid-class design quite a bit - the Akira/Steamrunner/Norway design language that also informs the Sovereign-class is really good in a different way and I like it a lot too, but the Intrepid does something different for me.
    Its lines and form are all about efficiency - look at her from above, everything butts right up against the boundary of the warp envelope - almost none of the field’s volume is wasted. The nacelles are, to put it mildly, right-sized, while the deflector - that tool of many uses - is so large that the primary/secondary hull division seems to have been built around the array specs. This is not, as starships in Trek go, a design that speaks to speed or power, but to getting more Starfleet crews out into the quadrant, faster and further afield.
    She’s not going to play with the Akira and Steamrunner duo, those are built for rapid response and force projection. This ship is built out of all the science labs and packed-up industrial replicators and medical supply manufactories they didn’t leave room for on the Steamrunner.
    It’s exactly the ship you would build a hundred and fifty of to replace the Miranda variants and other Constitution-era spaceframes that don’t have any more full refits left in ‘em.
    A sleek, organic, elegant design for the boring, unsexy work that keeps a quadrant-spanning Federation held together. Peak Starfleet.

    I mean, that's why the nebula class exists though right, the pod up top can be interchanged depending on if it's a science mission, war mission, etc

    steam_sig.png
    kHDRsTc.png
    Commander Zoom
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Captain Sisko was born and raised in Louisiana so I prefer to imagine the tech translates in real time to what the listener is most comfortable with. Everything Chief O'Brien or Odo say comes back to Sisko's ears as broken French with a Cajun accent.

    Would explain Picard's 'French accent'

    Isn't French a dead language in TNG? Or am I thinking of Futurama?

    xCWZ7.gif

This discussion has been closed.