If we really want to get down to it, Starfleet should have removed Picard from frontline service after Best of Both Worlds. I'm highly doubtful something that traumatic can be recovered to the point you can trust that officer in command again, and honestly, we see many signs pointing to that over the years. The D should have been Riker's from that point on.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
In a modern and/or actually military fleet, yeah, Picard never would've had that role again no matter how much the Federation thought he was okay. Just as a matter of policy, the risk would've been too great. Modern fighter pilots can get grounded for things entirely not their fault, simply because the brass doesn't want to risk multi-million-dollar fighters.
But the Federation is more about philosophy than policy. It would rather roll the dice that a good captain has recovered than be reactionary and rabidly over-safe than risking taking Picard out of fleet action forever.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I mean, it's also the future. Psychology is barely out of the caveman stages for us now but there's no reason to suppose that in the 2300s determining whether someone is ready to go back to work after a trauma can't be done as matter-of-factly as seeing if their arm can go back to playing tennis again.
Whenever someone tells the transporter operator something like "two to beam up" and there are five people around, how does the operator know who to beam? Do they try to determine who's standing the most rigidly or who's closest to person who called in the transport?
Doesn't seem that way and sometimes the person saying "one to beam up" is actually speaking for another individual instead of themselves. How does the operator know?
The transporter operators are watching the episode along with the viewer so they always know who to beam up.
Basically this
There are TOS episodes where the bridge crew is literally watching the episode on the main viewer. Where the fuck is the camera? Who is capturing this imagery? Why is the camera man not helping Kirk fight the Gorn?
The ship is scanning the planet and the computer is reconstructing the scene in 3D
In "Arena", the feed is explicitly being provided by the Metrons, and gets cut at the climax when things take an unexpected turn.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
In Best of Both Worlds, it was mentioned he'd been offered three ships and turned them all down, and if he didn't take this one he wouldn't be offered a fourth.
From what he said at the end of Generations, it took the destruction of the Enterprise-D to get him to move on, he didn't want just any Enterprise, he wanted the Big D.
He definitely wanted the D, but he did stay on as the E’s XO for 8 years—which included the Dominion War, so I doubt Starfleet would’ve kept him blacklisted.
Were TNG made today, Riker definitely would’ve gotten his own spin-off after Best of Both Worlds. I could imagine him being a recurring character during the back half of DS9, showing the angle of “ships that come in for repair/R&R.
Nothing makes a Totally Not A Military reconsider whether or not to give someone a promotion like a whole bunch of losses at the command level during an active war.
I mean, it's also the future. Psychology is barely out of the caveman stages for us now but there's no reason to suppose that in the 2300s determining whether someone is ready to go back to work after a trauma can't be done as matter-of-factly as seeing if their arm can go back to playing tennis again.
I think we've seen plenty of evidence that at least in the Star Trek universe they aren't that far ahead with the amount of people with issues that just get... put aside, or are barely functional. I realize I'm also getting on a 40 year old shows depiction during an era with far less understanding of these issues than we have even now. (Societal understanding, not scientific), so hey.
In Best of Both Worlds, it was mentioned he'd been offered three ships and turned them all down, and if he didn't take this one he wouldn't be offered a fourth.
From what he said at the end of Generations, it took the destruction of the Enterprise-D to get him to move on, he didn't want just any Enterprise, he wanted the Big D.
He definitely wanted the D, but he did stay on as the E’s XO for 8 years—which included the Dominion War, so I doubt Starfleet would’ve kept him blacklisted.
Were TNG made today, Riker definitely would’ve gotten his own spin-off after Best of Both Worlds. I could imagine him being a recurring character during the back half of DS9, showing the angle of “ships that come in for repair/R&R.
Would have made the twist of Thomas Riker more surprising cus of false sense of security.
If there's hours and hours and hours of fan made videos about some Federation officer's obsession with the Price is Right, we could surely make that come to pass.
If there's hours and hours and hours of fan made videos about some Federation officer's obsession with the Price is Right, we could surely make that come to pass.
Could you imagine the Ferengi getting introduced to the Price is Right? they'd eat that shit up
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
If there's hours and hours and hours of fan made videos about some Federation officer's obsession with the Price is Right, we could surely make that come to pass.
Could you imagine the Ferengi getting introduced to the Price is Right? they'd eat that shit up
They'd just insist that the price was wrong, and they can offer a much better price (provided you don't make too many enquiries as to where it came from).
If there's hours and hours and hours of fan made videos about some Federation officer's obsession with the Price is Right, we could surely make that come to pass.
Could you imagine the Ferengi getting introduced to the Price is Right? they'd eat that shit up
They'd just insist that the price was wrong, and they can offer a much better price (provided you don't make too many enquiries as to where it came from).
Tsk, proper price valuation of an item is an essential skill in Ferengi society. What profit you get from it afterwards is what seperates the passable Ferengi from the greats.
That said, Ferengi Price is Right could also involve intense contract negotiations and head to head haggling, and...... oh jeez I'm gonna have to run this in STA aren't I
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
The price is negotiable
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Lower Decks continues to be fantastic!
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Continuing my trek through the archives of Voyager...
Persistence Of Vision - Psychotic psychic fucks with the crew for shits and giggles. "Why did you do this to us?" "Because I can.". Sorry, if you're wanting to do an episode where the crew are toyed with for entertainment purposes by an untouchable bored alien, either pay John De Lancie his per diem, or don't bother.
Tattoo - Chakotay comes to terms with his ancestry and his relationship with his father. While I don't mind the concept of a Chakotay epidode, and I don't mind the indigenous native overtones they gave his character, they tend to lay it on a bit thick. Every time Chakotay is doing anything character related, other than his relationship with Seska, they keep going back to this. Also, I feel bad that I don't feel bad that Neelix got eagled.
Cold Fire - The second Ocompa tribe are found, and they teach Kes that burning things is fun! While it was good they didn't just abandon the caretaker storyline from the pilot, this was a pretty mediocre conclusion to it. Good to see Gary Graham getting work, but it always makes me giggle when he's playing an alien, given how much I loved him in Alien Nation when it aired. Scared to go back and watch that show, both because it's 30 years old, so, dated before we even get to... And because of how my feelings on policing have evolved.
Maneuvers - Seska is back, and she's masterminding a heist! Janeway is running out of senior officers to punish for direct subordination, as Chakotay goes after her. Also, I always find it a shame when Anthony De Longis is on an episode of anything, and they don't let him show off his weaponry skills. Doesn't have to be an extended scene, but it feels like a waste not to have anything. Anyway, Seska shows to be pregnant, and says it's Chakotay. Still have ZERO recollection of Seska, or anything she's done, so don't know if/how that's going to end.
Resistance - Crazed father thinks Janeway is his daughter, on a fasci planet. Always liked Alan Scarfe, he has a presence to him. Seeing Joel Gray opposite Mulgrew was entertaining, as someone who has watched Remo on basic cable way more times than is funny. Same issue as Alien Nation in my refusal to go back, especially given the nature of Joel Gray's character in that movie. Didn't hate it, but it was very paint-by-numbers, and the conclusion was exactly as I figured it'd be.
Prototype - B'Elanna finds an android in space, revives it, and guess what, "Kill all humans builders". Then it turns out that another sect of identical (but gold instead of silver) are engaged in a war of annihilation based on the commands of the two races that they eradicated. Another mediocre episode, but I did like the Janeway/B'Elanna conversation at the end.
Alliances - Janeway is encouraged to form an alliance with one of the power brokers in the area, and decides on the race that enslaved the Kazon, and are now sorry about it. Turns out they're still duplicitous pricks. Seska's back, doesn't do much. The Kazon issue is something that has been nagging me since I first watched the show. If Voyager is mostly moving in one direction (back to the Alpha Quadrant, and has been doing so for a season and a half, how are they still in Cullah's territory? I can understand them abandoning things going for their grail, but that doesn't appear to be what's happening. The pilot ends on Stardate 48317. Alliances is set on 49337.4. That's about a thousand adds, which is about a year of "real time". Travelling at Warp 6 is about half a light year per hour. Assuming they're only travelling at that speed even 1/3 the time (the rest being supplies, side things, etc), that's still 1500 light years. The entire Federation is only 8-10K across. So how fucking big is the empire of people like the Kazon? Especially given that Kazon-Nistrum are only one of 18 sects.
Next up is Threshold, and yes, I'm fully aware of what that episode is going to be. It's one of the few Voyager episodes I remember some of, and even if I didn't, the memes and references on the internets since, would have given me enough warning. Salamander ho!
Tattoo gets worse the more you think about it. When you distill down the Rubber Tree People story, you come down to the fact that ancient new world peoples were living like animals, naked and without language or technology, and then they were touched by magic white people from the sky who saw that the lived in benign harmony with nature (positive stereotypes are no less damaging to the tenuous hold on the past that remains than toxic ones).
Plus the fact their Native American advisor was a fraud
The casual racism towards Native Americans is a large part of why I can't get through Voyager. It is really hard for me to watch Star Trek that flubs such a central part of the message since the beginning. All of the shows struggle to execute it well at times. Voyager is the only one I see be hostile to it, and almost certainly on the back of the asshole they hired to be an advisor.
Tattoo gets worse the more you think about it. When you distill down the Rubber Tree People story, you come down to the fact that ancient new world peoples were living like animals, naked and without language or technology, and then they were touched by magic white people from the sky who saw that the lived in benign harmony with nature (positive stereotypes are no less damaging to the tenuous hold on the past that remains than toxic ones).
I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but when the RTP came out of the trees on my recent watch of this episode, I literally said out loud (if quietly since my kid is ...somewhere in the house)
why in the fuck do the uncontacted tribe people have loaf!?
@MorganV I love that you are watching through VOY, as I am too and just about in line with you. What's up, most-maligned series hate-watch buddy!?
I cannot recommend highly enough the podcast The Greatest Generation, which is also, along with you and me, consuming these units of televisual entertainment and then talking about them for an hour each in a way that combines the very best elements of academic film school training, work experience in the field of making a television, deep knowledge of and love for Trek, and possibly-tipsy friends pushing the dick joke envelope until one or the other of them cracks under the pressure. I find myself in a situation where I have several hour-plus solo car trips every week (by affirmative choice and for good reasons) and it has been really, really great to "hang out" with this podcast going over an episode I recently watched - often for the first time. Or, the "first time", adjusted for the fact that when these aired originally I was in or shortly out of undergrad so ...kind of a blur.
Only got a couple eps done last night before I had to go sleep for work.
Twisted - Voyager is getting distorted by some kind of spatial distortion, and the ship is rearranging itself, and Janeway being afflicted. Was kinda interesting until the writers decided "Yeah, we're just going to have it be inevitable, reset everything, and nothing the characters did meant anything.". Then there's the ending where whatever entity it was copied Voyager's databanks and also deposited a bunch of data. Hoping that might matter later? Basically same thing Discovery did with the Sphere, but it was an ongoing plot point there.
Parturition - Enemy Mine Redux. Neelix and Paris get sent down to a planet, rescue an alien baby, and bond with it. Mostly crap, but if it means the end of the Neelix/Paris/Kes love triangle it appears it is, then I'm glad it's done. Because I really hated that, both Neelix's obnoxious jealousy, and Paris's "I can't control myself!" shit. Kes should have pushed them both out of an airlock and be done with the both of them. Life's too short, her's more than most, for that to be her romantic life.
I started Persistence of Vision, but it was too late for me to finish. I'll get back to it (and a few more eps) now.
because the android will also decline and die from old age just like he would have!
Cheapening his death like that only gets worse since it happened two minutes after his conversation with Data, in which he asked to be freed from the mind prison he'd been locked in so he could finally have the death he walked into head high years earlier.
Plus the fact their Native American advisor was a fraud
The casual racism towards Native Americans is a large part of why I can't get through Voyager. It is really hard for me to watch Star Trek that flubs such a central part of the message since the beginning. All of the shows struggle to execute it well at times. Voyager is the only one I see be hostile to it, and almost certainly on the back of the asshole they hired to be an advisor.
There’s a little bit in, I want to say The Fifty Year Mission, where Tattoo is mentioned as an aside, and they talk about how proud they were of doing that episode as an example of *any* representation at the time.
It’s not aged well. And wasn’t that good to start.
The pilot ends on Stardate 48317. Alliances is set on 49337.4. That's about a thousand adds, which is about a year of "real time".
I'm one of the (presumably many) who just blank out whenever they say a stardate. I literally hear "Captain's Log, Stardate: number number number number point number", and wait for them to give the audience the understandable context like "that was nearly 100 years ago".
Did they actually have people keeping the dates consistent?
The pilot ends on Stardate 48317. Alliances is set on 49337.4. That's about a thousand adds, which is about a year of "real time".
I'm one of the (presumably many) who just blank out whenever they say a stardate. I literally hear "Captain's Log, Stardate: number number number number point number", and wait for them to give the audience the understandable context like "that was nearly 100 years ago".
Did they actually have people keeping the dates consistent?
According to Memory Alpha, not really. The first number sets the century. The second sets the season (each season increments by 1). Then it's basically incremental throughout the season, so early episodes will be closer to 000, later episodes approaching 999. But it does give a basic context of when a year has passed, even if it's not directly convertable to the Gregorian calendar.
The pilot ends on Stardate 48317. Alliances is set on 49337.4. That's about a thousand adds, which is about a year of "real time".
I'm one of the (presumably many) who just blank out whenever they say a stardate. I literally hear "Captain's Log, Stardate: number number number number point number", and wait for them to give the audience the understandable context like "that was nearly 100 years ago".
Did they actually have people keeping the dates consistent?
According to Memory Alpha, not really. The first number sets the century. The second sets the season (each season increments by 1). Then it's basically incremental throughout the season, so early episodes will be closer to 000, later episodes approaching 999. But it does give a basic context of when a year has passed, even if it's not directly convertable to the Gregorian calendar.
Naturally, somebody made a site that converts Stardates to Gregorian Calendar.
Stardate 49337.4 is apparently May 3, 2372 at 11:43 in the morning.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I feel like for whatever reason, Native Americans/First Nations people consistently have gotten the rawest deal in 50 years of Star Trek. Maybe it's a legacy of being made in Hollywood amidst buildings and studio backlots and costume shops that were literally built on decades of racist Western caricatures, or maybe it really was just luck of the draw and if the same writers who did stuff like "Tattoo" or "The Paradise Syndrome" had written about, like, Pacific Islanders it would have been just as bad, but it feels like while even as far back as TOS they could manage sympathetic (or, more importantly, interesting) characterizations of Black and Asian characters, and had lots of casual background representation of Latin, South Asian, etc folks, the instant a Native steps on screen he raises his hand and goes "How" and starts smokum de peace pipe.
I think the fraud they got as their 'expert' was used by a lot of places for a long time, so it became a fairly self-perpetuating screwup.
Jamake Highwater and others like him from the mid/late 90's have credits or direct/indirect references in so much stuff that it's spawned a branch specialty of anthropology just for figuring out what we actually know and what was fraud by their like.
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But the Federation is more about philosophy than policy. It would rather roll the dice that a good captain has recovered than be reactionary and rabidly over-safe than risking taking Picard out of fleet action forever.
In "Arena", the feed is explicitly being provided by the Metrons, and gets cut at the climax when things take an unexpected turn.
Nothing makes a Totally Not A Military reconsider whether or not to give someone a promotion like a whole bunch of losses at the command level during an active war.
I think we've seen plenty of evidence that at least in the Star Trek universe they aren't that far ahead with the amount of people with issues that just get... put aside, or are barely functional. I realize I'm also getting on a 40 year old shows depiction during an era with far less understanding of these issues than we have even now. (Societal understanding, not scientific), so hey.
Would have made the twist of Thomas Riker more surprising cus of false sense of security.
Could you imagine the Ferengi getting introduced to the Price is Right? they'd eat that shit up
They'd just insist that the price was wrong, and they can offer a much better price (provided you don't make too many enquiries as to where it came from).
"Fuck you Star Wars, we want our own day too! With Hookers! And Blackjack!"
I do like the implication that Strange New Worlds might be getting an airing though, looking forward to that
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Tsk, proper price valuation of an item is an essential skill in Ferengi society. What profit you get from it afterwards is what seperates the passable Ferengi from the greats.
That said, Ferengi Price is Right could also involve intense contract negotiations and head to head haggling, and...... oh jeez I'm gonna have to run this in STA aren't I
God I hope strange new worlds is good, the main trio cast is so great
Man...
I really fucking love Star Trek.
Persistence Of Vision - Psychotic psychic fucks with the crew for shits and giggles. "Why did you do this to us?" "Because I can.". Sorry, if you're wanting to do an episode where the crew are toyed with for entertainment purposes by an untouchable bored alien, either pay John De Lancie his per diem, or don't bother.
Tattoo - Chakotay comes to terms with his ancestry and his relationship with his father. While I don't mind the concept of a Chakotay epidode, and I don't mind the indigenous native overtones they gave his character, they tend to lay it on a bit thick. Every time Chakotay is doing anything character related, other than his relationship with Seska, they keep going back to this. Also, I feel bad that I don't feel bad that Neelix got eagled.
Cold Fire - The second Ocompa tribe are found, and they teach Kes that burning things is fun! While it was good they didn't just abandon the caretaker storyline from the pilot, this was a pretty mediocre conclusion to it. Good to see Gary Graham getting work, but it always makes me giggle when he's playing an alien, given how much I loved him in Alien Nation when it aired. Scared to go back and watch that show, both because it's 30 years old, so, dated before we even get to... And because of how my feelings on policing have evolved.
Maneuvers - Seska is back, and she's masterminding a heist! Janeway is running out of senior officers to punish for direct subordination, as Chakotay goes after her. Also, I always find it a shame when Anthony De Longis is on an episode of anything, and they don't let him show off his weaponry skills. Doesn't have to be an extended scene, but it feels like a waste not to have anything. Anyway, Seska shows to be pregnant, and says it's Chakotay. Still have ZERO recollection of Seska, or anything she's done, so don't know if/how that's going to end.
Resistance - Crazed father thinks Janeway is his daughter, on a fasci planet. Always liked Alan Scarfe, he has a presence to him. Seeing Joel Gray opposite Mulgrew was entertaining, as someone who has watched Remo on basic cable way more times than is funny. Same issue as Alien Nation in my refusal to go back, especially given the nature of Joel Gray's character in that movie. Didn't hate it, but it was very paint-by-numbers, and the conclusion was exactly as I figured it'd be.
Prototype - B'Elanna finds an android in space, revives it, and guess what, "Kill all humans builders". Then it turns out that another sect of identical (but gold instead of silver) are engaged in a war of annihilation based on the commands of the two races that they eradicated. Another mediocre episode, but I did like the Janeway/B'Elanna conversation at the end.
Alliances - Janeway is encouraged to form an alliance with one of the power brokers in the area, and decides on the race that enslaved the Kazon, and are now sorry about it. Turns out they're still duplicitous pricks. Seska's back, doesn't do much. The Kazon issue is something that has been nagging me since I first watched the show. If Voyager is mostly moving in one direction (back to the Alpha Quadrant, and has been doing so for a season and a half, how are they still in Cullah's territory? I can understand them abandoning things going for their grail, but that doesn't appear to be what's happening. The pilot ends on Stardate 48317. Alliances is set on 49337.4. That's about a thousand adds, which is about a year of "real time". Travelling at Warp 6 is about half a light year per hour. Assuming they're only travelling at that speed even 1/3 the time (the rest being supplies, side things, etc), that's still 1500 light years. The entire Federation is only 8-10K across. So how fucking big is the empire of people like the Kazon? Especially given that Kazon-Nistrum are only one of 18 sects.
Next up is Threshold, and yes, I'm fully aware of what that episode is going to be. It's one of the few Voyager episodes I remember some of, and even if I didn't, the memes and references on the internets since, would have given me enough warning. Salamander ho!
Jup
The casual racism towards Native Americans is a large part of why I can't get through Voyager. It is really hard for me to watch Star Trek that flubs such a central part of the message since the beginning. All of the shows struggle to execute it well at times. Voyager is the only one I see be hostile to it, and almost certainly on the back of the asshole they hired to be an advisor.
I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but when the RTP came out of the trees on my recent watch of this episode, I literally said out loud (if quietly since my kid is ...somewhere in the house)
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I cannot recommend highly enough the podcast The Greatest Generation, which is also, along with you and me, consuming these units of televisual entertainment and then talking about them for an hour each in a way that combines the very best elements of academic film school training, work experience in the field of making a television, deep knowledge of and love for Trek, and possibly-tipsy friends pushing the dick joke envelope until one or the other of them cracks under the pressure. I find myself in a situation where I have several hour-plus solo car trips every week (by affirmative choice and for good reasons) and it has been really, really great to "hang out" with this podcast going over an episode I recently watched - often for the first time. Or, the "first time", adjusted for the fact that when these aired originally I was in or shortly out of undergrad so ...kind of a blur.
Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
There’s a little bit in, I want to say The Fifty Year Mission, where Tattoo is mentioned as an aside, and they talk about how proud they were of doing that episode as an example of *any* representation at the time.
It’s not aged well. And wasn’t that good to start.
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Did they actually have people keeping the dates consistent?
According to Memory Alpha, not really. The first number sets the century. The second sets the season (each season increments by 1). Then it's basically incremental throughout the season, so early episodes will be closer to 000, later episodes approaching 999. But it does give a basic context of when a year has passed, even if it's not directly convertable to the Gregorian calendar.
Naturally, somebody made a site that converts Stardates to Gregorian Calendar.
Stardate 49337.4 is apparently May 3, 2372 at 11:43 in the morning.
Jamake Highwater and others like him from the mid/late 90's have credits or direct/indirect references in so much stuff that it's spawned a branch specialty of anthropology just for figuring out what we actually know and what was fraud by their like.
First, the show is gorgeous on Paramount+. Whatever they did, looks way better than it should.
Second, watched the episode last night where Riker gets traded to a Klingon ship as an exchange program.
It is criminal Riker never got his own show.
No single show could contain him. That's why he's been on EVERY show since he was cast.