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US Immigration Policy - I'd have a snarky subtitle but this shit isn't funny.
Henroid
Mexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
Mexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
Welcome to the thread for discussing US immigration policy.
Since last thread, there was an election, and we have a new administration in charge of the United States. Also since last thread I added a couple of rules and highlighted one that got ignored at the end of the previous thread iteration.
Things that are on-topic for this thread:
- immigration policy by the executive office
- immigration legislation
- immigration enforcement
- offices and agencies that oversee the above
- administration or law enforcement comments / actions pertaining to immigration & policy or legislation thereof
- the opposition party's response, be it words or actions, to the above (specifically only in the scope of immigration, not election strategy or anything else)
- history of US immigration policy, though mostly if it's helping to frame current events in context of some sort
What the thread is not for!
- discussion of Democratic Party failures in a general sense (meaning it's okay to be critical of them if they are bad at immigration policy)
- the election, past or present or future
- being a goose at one another
- bashing our heads into the wall over and over when there's an impasse; gotta let stuff go when a disagreement shows up
As per mod request, topicality will be enforced here.
Edit - WHERE WE LAST LEFT OFF:
- People were debating the "finer points" and definitions of children being incarcerated in the immigration system, particularly with the re-opening of a facility that was notorious for the children-in-cages issue and one that the now Vice President was critical of at the time. HOWEVER until something new happens on this matter I'm asking people to drop it because Jesus jumped up Christ y'all.
Since last thread, there was an election, and we have a new administration in charge of the United States. Also since last thread I added a couple of rules and highlighted one that got ignored at the end of the previous thread iteration.
Things that are on-topic for this thread:
- immigration policy by the executive office
- immigration legislation
- immigration enforcement
- offices and agencies that oversee the above
- administration or law enforcement comments / actions pertaining to immigration & policy or legislation thereof
- the opposition party's response, be it words or actions, to the above (specifically only in the scope of immigration, not election strategy or anything else)
- history of US immigration policy, though mostly if it's helping to frame current events in context of some sort
What the thread is not for!
- discussion of Democratic Party failures in a general sense (meaning it's okay to be critical of them if they are bad at immigration policy)
- the election, past or present or future
- being a goose at one another
- bashing our heads into the wall over and over when there's an impasse; gotta let stuff go when a disagreement shows up
As per mod request, topicality will be enforced here.
Edit - WHERE WE LAST LEFT OFF:
- People were debating the "finer points" and definitions of children being incarcerated in the immigration system, particularly with the re-opening of a facility that was notorious for the children-in-cages issue and one that the now Vice President was critical of at the time. HOWEVER until something new happens on this matter I'm asking people to drop it because Jesus jumped up Christ y'all.
Henroid on
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This discussion has been closed.
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WHERE WE LAST LEFT OFF:
- People were debating the "finer points" and definitions of children being incarcerated in the immigration system, particularly with the re-opening of a facility that was notorious for the children-in-cages issue and one that the now Vice President was critical of at the time. HOWEVER until something new happens on this matter I'm asking people to drop it because Jesus jumped up Christ y'all.
They’ve also apparently reunited over 100 kids with their parents over the last month so that’s a good pace.
300 of the remaining kids parents were deported though so that’ll probably be more difficult but it’s nice to see that this is on its way to being fixed.
Stories like this are why I'm giving Biden's admin the benefit of the doubt over getting the detainment policies correct.
The article says the lawyers who worked to reunite the children were an independent group working pro bono. The article says that Biden wants the federal government to establish a task force to work on the same goals, and that the lawyers are willing to work with that task force, but to give the administration the credit of the accomplishments of these independent actors voluntering their time and expertise is unwarranted.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Going off of this article linked within the first linked article, the task force was formed as part of a judge's ruling back during the Trump Administration. Again, this hard work was started before Biden arrived in office, even before he was President-elect.
I am under no obligation to grant any credit, "little as it is," that is unearned. Biden will receive my kudos when it is warranted.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Contextless hot takes are fun, but we already did this dance for a few pages.
Whats your plan for unaccompanied minors coming across the border?
What will that entail, exactly? Be specific please.
give them a house and million dollars
It'll be more than pretty promises on a campaign website and saying task forces will be formed. It'll be more than putting HHS instead of ICE in charge of the same facilities.
Actually putting into motion an end to all of this shit that began under Obama, not just Trump, that's where I'll start feeling like Biden is serious about not just a return to four years ago.
Why are you giving Biden the benefit of the doubt? Hopefully on more than the actions of those unrelated to his administration, and not merely because he and his are not Trump, Miller, et al.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Ok, what serious plan do you have for this situation?
that is a very serious plan and much better than 25% more humane prisons, i assure you
You can't drop a child off at a house with a check and call it a day. That's dumb, it is a dumb suggestion.
Also, what's this mean, talking about the hyperboles and making things up about this facility is back on the table? I assumed the pot-shot in the OP was supposed to be the end, this is exciting now!
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No reason not to hold the administration's feet to the fire at the moment either way, since we haven't seen much of anything worthwhile actually happen yet because of their efforts, and we lack information on whether the moves that have happened have been improvements.
It's not like the administration's going to do worse by these kids as retaliation because people gave them a hard time, are they? They're not the Trump Administration. So hopefully the pressure's helpful, regardless of whether they had shitty/no plans or good plans in mind after all. Even takes I think are bad takes can be valuable in that way. Albeit maybe less so in a less public forum like this one.
Yeah. One of the most horrible options would seriously just be "treat them like citizens!".
I know this is a logistically huge undertaking but fucking still.
As for "why would we do that just for Hispanic immigrants and not everyone else," uh that would be because Mexico is our literal neighbor with a lot of traffic from South America coming our way too. We accommodate it, not try to harshly roadblock it.
Just when you thought ICE couldn't get lower..
This
Arrow pointing rightwards then curving downwards
is an email exchange between our Director of Family Detention Services & @ICEgov
's Community Relations Officer.
Apparently, Norma's job (apart from making ours difficult) is taxpayer funded chismosa.
We said what we said
(Image: ICE representative refusing to help because RAICES never helps ICE)
https://mobile.twitter.com/RAICESTEXAS/status/1365023337668370439
*I am jacks lack of surprise etc etc
So you *don't* actually care about what happens to these kids outside of grinding an axe and farming fake internet points with goosey hot takes?
"Abolish ICE" is fewer keystrokes and can be worked into numerous catchy chants for use at protests! :biggrin:
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
What "began" under Obama, exactly? They had an influx of unaccompanied minors, and did a shit job of i handling it properly. Then Trump came in and fostered *intentionally* horrific policies including separation that made the problem worse, which Biden now also has to account for and fix.
He's already halted separations and would have put a moratorium on deportations had it not gotten slapped down by the courts. They're working with/ allowing agencies and pro-bono outlets to actually find these fucking kids and their parents.
I don't know precisely how little progress/ how slow of an approach I'll tolerate before getting angry, but I'm not going to get on his case for not completing fixing the problem with just barely a month in office, and literally everything on his plate.
And prosecuted, if fitting.
Actually hold on
What if housing and reparations paid to immigrants for our nation’s shitheelery for the past... well, for the past.
"what's your plan" is not a coherent response to an observation that something is bad, they are two entirely separate things
hitting hot metal with hammers
As a trite notion, to really put an end to this shit (and I'm not just talking about ICE), will take acts of congress, of which Biden has proposed. It is...unlikely to pass, because even when the most basic of humane things has been put forward for the most innocent of immigrants has been proposed, congress has utterly waffled if not entirely done their worst.
That is something that I think is a great idea, in addition to the reparations the nation owes to other groups of people.
I mean, it is entirely tangential to the problem of "where do we put kids who are here alone until we find someplace more permanent for them," but your thought is independently something that should happen.
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You literally posted an article where the Biden administration was not responsible for any of the good being done in it and said "this is why I give Biden the benefit of the doubt." Same article also says that those groups are planning on working with the task force that the administration puts together. The independent group has stated things the task force should do, but there have been no commitments to these recommended actions. This is why I've asked you to maybe revise/restate why you want to extend Biden the benefit of the doubt.
Obama deported more people during his first three years in office than Trump did during his entire tenure. Simply speeding up the process so that they are not detained for as long before having their asylum claims rubber-stamp denied is not going to be progress in my eyes, either.
Okay so a month is too soon, in your opinion, to be critical of this administration. Fair enough. But since you also don't have a timeframe for when it'll be okay to do so, I hope you won't mind if I - since I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt - remain critical.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Is there any authoritative source on this? I cannot find one.
WaPo article I had found but typing "Obama deportations" by itself into Google brings up article after article going "Well yes, Obama deported more people than Trump but you need to understand the context," the sort of apologetics within which I find little to appreciate.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Why? Context and details do matter. You may hold the position that we shouldn’t deport anyone, but that’s a different discussion.
People jumping the border are not immigrants or citizens.
If you're talking specifically about legal immigrants being treated shittily, then you're going to be paying out to a looooooot of different people.
Irish Catholics got shit on during the 1860 all the way to JFK, does my family deserve reparations?
Oh god can we not?
Their post was unserious and her response even less so.
If they wants to engage, they're welcome to do better than "boo Biden shitty", and then responded with amateur crap when asked if they want to add something of substance.
We shouldn’t, because the plan of “a house and a million dollars” is absurd to begin with and has zero chance of even being introduced as even a bill that could become law.
Second, to the bolded, yeah sure why not? The US government can blow 1.5 trillion over a couple years on a stupid jet that doesn't work right, so why not this.