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[Loop Hero] A Roguelike Deckbuilder hybrid, that asks the tough question:

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Defense
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    So there’s two types of interactions: ones you can be expected to stumble onto in play and ones too obscure to reasonably figure out. I’ll spoil one weird one that feels more like an easter egg than anything else.
    Fill every ground tile of the loop with swamps.
    I just tried to do this, and even with only 7 cards in my deck, spamming spiders all over the place to maximize card drops, the RNG didn't give me enough swamp cards before I was overrun around loop 15. What happens?

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Evasion
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    So there’s two types of interactions: ones you can be expected to stumble onto in play and ones too obscure to reasonably figure out. I’ll spoil one weird one that feels more like an easter egg than anything else.
    Fill every ground tile of the loop with swamps.
    I just tried to do this, and even with only 7 cards in my deck, spamming spiders all over the place to maximize card drops, the RNG didn't give me enough swamp cards before I was overrun around loop 15. What happens?
    The last swamp placed down generates a frog enemy. In the encounter they are a regal frog king that talks like the fishpeople. He doesn't attack just croaks there with 2 HP. 99% chance to dodge attacks. On defeat he drops a buncha resources/equipment/cards like a boss would. And plays a special sound clip.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    Genji-GlovesGenji-Gloves Registered User regular
    Vampirism
    Playing Necro with high evade, high attack speed and + skellys. Just destroyed the second boss without blinking.

    Love that feeling when you have a good run.

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    hushhush Registered User regular
    The planning and forethought required for ch4 was wildly higher than any of the preceding chapters. It almost felt like there was something missing going from 3 to 4. Also necro is crazy strong, even if I do prefer playing rogue (who I also think is crazy strong, just not quite as busted good as early as the necro).

    This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.

    So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Evasion
    A lot of the chapter 4 enemies get abilities actively beneficial to the player. Such as ghouls losing their turns on hit. You also regularly get very good loot quality at camp. More than other chapters you want to go fast to reduce its challenges.

    VRXwDW7.png
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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    I find the rogue best for farming runs. Stack thickets up to 150ish attack speed, then as many dunes as you can fit. Once you get set up, switch to exclusively damage to all gear, then you just walk in and kill everything before they get a chance to take more than one bite out of your mana shield.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Vampirism
    You can do a lot of builds to farm. I’m farming with vampire mansion and swamp with necro. Stack forests too as necro does great against the wood guys too.

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Evasion
    I beat act 4 once and then stuck around to see if there's anything else to do - I hadn't unlocked everything or built all the building types yet so I figured I'd try to do that. On my next run I think I basically beat the game and there's nothing left for me to do:
    ROxyg53.png

    This loop could've kept going basically forever, since I had the talent that gives me +0.5 magic shield HP when I summon a skeleton, and I was summoning 8 skeletons minimum each fight, and usually a few more since some would die during the fight. So my magic HP kept scaling up, and anyways I was untouchable long before then (the magic HP talent was the last one I got, and as you can tell I was super high level). This loop was originally set up to farm that stupid resource that only drops from mages or something but it ended up being a pretty good way of farming lots of stuff.

    I love the game's atmosphere and story and graphics and sound. The gameplay itself is fine but I feel like it's a little limited. A lot of it comes down to luck with talents and (to a lesser extent) gear, and the necromancer seems very overpowered. There aren't as many interactions between different tiles as I would've liked, a lot of the tiles are not very useful or useful only in weird situations, and you kind of have to have a fairly limited deck (and thus even fewer options for using tiles with each other) if you want to make sure you get the tiles you need early enough not to die.

    I think a better version of the game would've cut down a lot on the randomness: rather than random talents, have a little talent tree that you fill out when you level up. Rather than random tiles, when creatures die give me some points and I use those points to purchase the tiles from my deck. Rather than a deluge of random loot dropping all the time, 95% of which is worthless, drop gold and let me spend the gold at a shop. I feel like most of the randomness aspects are just in there to trigger the slot machine psychological reflex that you get when you get a good drop, and I hate that kind of game design. Let me make actual choices rather than trying to get me to feel a dopamine hit every X minutes so that I keep playing.

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    credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I just unlocked the necromancer and I don’t think I understand what attack speed does on him. Is it the speed with which he summons skeletons? I don’t think it’s the skeletons’ attack speed, is it?

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    Vampirism
    credeiki wrote: »
    I just unlocked the necromancer and I don’t think I understand what attack speed does on him. Is it the speed with which he summons skeletons? I don’t think it’s the skeletons’ attack speed, is it?

    Necromancer "attack" works like this, if you are not at max skeletons he will summon one, if you are he will attack for like 3 damage or something

    Attack speed is massively important to the Necromancer

    That said you want all of your actual equipment to boost your summon level, max skeletons, and summon quality in probably that order

    So for that reason, Forests are vitally important. I usually do not run Mountains at all with Necro.

    Maddoc on
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    m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Vampirism
    Maddoc wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    I just unlocked the necromancer and I don’t think I understand what attack speed does on him. Is it the speed with which he summons skeletons? I don’t think it’s the skeletons’ attack speed, is it?

    Necromancer "attack" works like this, if you are not at max skeletons he will summon one, if you are he will attack for like 3 damage or something

    Attack speed is massively important to the Necromancer

    That said you want all of your actual equipment to boost your summon level, max skeletons, and summon quality in probably that order

    So for that reason, Forests are vitally important. I usually do not run Mountains at all with Necro.

    That 3 damage attack can really hurt on stuff that counters (like the dummies on the Village? tile) so I try to balance out my attack speed so I get to max (hopefully 5) skeletons but I'm not "wasting" attack speed on useless attacks. Getting some quality is useful too in order to get some better damage or tank skellies.

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    FiskebentFiskebent DenmarkRegistered User regular
    Those Village? tiles are very high on the nuke list, when I play. They're pretty nasty.

    steam_sig.png
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    I try not to go above 150% or so. if I do I'll start dropping oasis and bring it back down, which also nerfs enemies. I almost never end up with quality because the best +level items are gray and for my book I'm usually looking for either more +level, or +1 skeletons. the horde trait is a good alternative to getting some advanced skeletons, especially in act 4

    Jars on
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    m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Vampirism
    Fiskebent wrote: »
    Those Village? tiles are very high on the nuke list, when I play. They're pretty nasty.

    Easy peasy for necro, and if you can drop enemy health enough it's pretty doable with rogue. They can't counter if you one-shot them :biggrin:

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Evasion
    Fiskebent wrote: »
    Those Village? tiles are very high on the nuke list, when I play. They're pretty nasty.

    They are great on a necro with the traits to either heal n skeleton death or permanently boost magic armor when summoning a skelly. I do try to make sure other monster types can't get in the mix though. Having something biting you while your skeletons focus on the enemies that only counter can be rough.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Vampirism
    Jars wrote: »
    I try not to go above 150% or so. if I do I'll start dropping oasis and bring it back down, which also nerfs enemies. I almost never end up with quality because the best +level items are gray and for my book I'm usually looking for either more +level, or +1 skeletons. the horde trait is a good alternative to getting some advanced skeletons, especially in act 4

    I find that even a single item with +quality will get you the weird wolverine dude and the tank skeleton a fair amount of the time, the tank skeleton very specifically can be extremely clutch

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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    the villages are nasty on harder modes for necro if you summon too fast, because your weak-ass attack will draw counter attacks. I think their thorns damage (not counter) also penetrates your shield, at least on level 3.

    I can't figure out what the ability to summon red lightning does on hit, and neither can anyone on google as far as I can tell. It doesn't make additional damage pop up. I can see the lightning appear but not what it does.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Well, I was just gifted Loop Hero, so it looks like I'm gonna find out what all the hype is about. Be prepared for lots of questions. :)

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Evasion
    Sometimes lightning will strike and I don't see health bars move, so I suspect either weird scaling vs health in those instances or some special attacks get kinda lost in the stack

    VRXwDW7.png
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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    Vampirism
    Dover... just enjoy it :) It is not an overly complex game and you dont really lose much of anything on run enders other than a bit of time. But hopefully the knowledge gained during the run as well.

    Jubal77 on
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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    I’m also not clear in what the building does that increases my hero’s strength by 4%

    What is strength in this context

    Oh I did see an announcement that the game sold well and they’re going to release additional heroes and cards

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    KamiroKamiro Registered User regular
    My wish is for many more card interactions.

    I’m at act 4 and have all the buildings unlocked. Just gotta make it through...

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    They are apparently working on those.

    I feel in my heart this was a game they wanted to do more of but ran out of budget, but I am hugely glad it’s been a massive success. Definitely going to make the game they intended now.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    yeah the last boss was a weird fight. I beat it with a necro and it's not really clear to me how you would beat that with a rogue, for instance. I certainly wouldn't have beat if it I didn't have both the skeleton heals me on death and the one that divides damage among my skeletons. we just wailed on each other for a really long time

    overall though, really fun and satisfying game, especially for the price I paid.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    yeah the last boss was a weird fight. I beat it with a necro and it's not really clear to me how you would beat that with a rogue, for instance. I certainly wouldn't have beat if it I didn't have both the skeleton heals me on death and the one that divides damage among my skeletons. we just wailed on each other for a really long time

    overall though, really fun and satisfying game, especially for the price I paid.

    I beat it today, with a rogue.
    KoolEagle gave me the advice of putting two outposts on your home town. The soldiers that help out help out quite a lot.

    Much stabbing, much attack speed, etc.

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    Genji-GlovesGenji-Gloves Registered User regular
    Vampirism
    Good write up here with the devs.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dpxnb/how-the-loop-hero-devs-pitched-a-hit-game-thats-impossible-to-describe

    Looking forward to more stuff they want to add.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Evasion
    Unless they're really going to switch the game up, I think I'm pretty done with it. it was a perfect experience for the $12 or whatever I paid for it, but I can't imagine making it infinitely replayable.

    What is this I don't even.
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    CantideCantide Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Unless they're really going to switch the game up, I think I'm pretty done with it. it was a perfect experience for the $12 or whatever I paid for it, but I can't imagine making it infinitely replayable.

    I’m in a similar boat. I’ve enjoyed the game, and I haven’t beaten the last chapter yet, but I feel like I’ve played through enough to get my fill of it. The biggest sticking point for me is that I’ll spend an hour plus on a run, die, and not have a very good sense of what I did wrong. Compare to something like Slay the Spire, where I can usually tell exactly how I messed up (didn’t gather enough block, deck got bloated, etc). Half the time I don’t know if I even did anything wrong, or just had bad luck with equipment and couldn’t keep up.

    Hopefully I’ll come back to it in a year or two and find some of the systems more fleshed out, and with that a better sense of what works and what doesn’t.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Well, I did the tutorial and then my first loop. Everything was going good and then a boss appeared on the map. Even though I felt beefy, I figured I'd get wiped out, so I took my stash and ran. Blindly constructed a few buildings and saw just how deep the rabbit hole can go. :)

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Evasion
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Well, I did the tutorial and then my first loop. Everything was going good and then a boss appeared on the map. Even though I felt beefy, I figured I'd get wiped out, so I took my stash and ran. Blindly constructed a few buildings and saw just how deep the rabbit hole can go. :)

    One thing I'm not sure the game explains is that the boss meter fills up as you play cards. That means you may not want to go hog wild on some of the landscape cards that only have a small effect once you get what you need from them.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Well, I did the tutorial and then my first loop. Everything was going good and then a boss appeared on the map. Even though I felt beefy, I figured I'd get wiped out, so I took my stash and ran. Blindly constructed a few buildings and saw just how deep the rabbit hole can go. :)

    One thing I'm not sure the game explains is that the boss meter fills up as you play cards. That means you may not want to go hog wild on some of the landscape cards that only have a small effect once you get what you need from them.

    No, it certainly doesn't. There's no on-screen meter either, unless I'm wrong. Also, I noticed that the boss is empowered by the buildings surrounding it. Is there a way to destroy those buildings outside of the boss destruction tile?

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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Well, I did the tutorial and then my first loop. Everything was going good and then a boss appeared on the map. Even though I felt beefy, I figured I'd get wiped out, so I took my stash and ran. Blindly constructed a few buildings and saw just how deep the rabbit hole can go. :)

    One thing I'm not sure the game explains is that the boss meter fills up as you play cards. That means you may not want to go hog wild on some of the landscape cards that only have a small effect once you get what you need from them.

    No, it certainly doesn't. There's no on-screen meter either, unless I'm wrong. Also, I noticed that the boss is empowered by the buildings surrounding it. Is there a way to destroy those buildings outside of the boss destruction tile?

    nope, but if you fill all the squares up around the home tile he won't build any

    that goes for every tile that spawns that you don't put down yourself - like, every x tiles causes a y to spawn. if there's not any room for it to spawn, it won't

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    oblivion cards can destroy them but the more reliable way is to fill those squares

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Vampirism
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Well, I did the tutorial and then my first loop. Everything was going good and then a boss appeared on the map. Even though I felt beefy, I figured I'd get wiped out, so I took my stash and ran. Blindly constructed a few buildings and saw just how deep the rabbit hole can go. :)

    One thing I'm not sure the game explains is that the boss meter fills up as you play cards. That means you may not want to go hog wild on some of the landscape cards that only have a small effect once you get what you need from them.

    No, it certainly doesn't. There's no on-screen meter either, unless I'm wrong. Also, I noticed that the boss is empowered by the buildings surrounding it. Is there a way to destroy those buildings outside of the boss destruction tile?

    the meter that shows tile placement-progress to boss spawning is the one directly below the day progress meter in the upper left corner

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Oh, my bad! :)

    Does the boss always spawn around the camp? And the palaces are in the 8 possible tiles around the camp?

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Evasion
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Oh, my bad! :)

    Does the boss always spawn around the camp? And the palaces are in the 8 possible tiles around the camp?

    That's the schtick of the first boss. Ideally your camp is surrounded by things like spider lairs, vampire mansions, etc. to block off the area.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Defense
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Oh, my bad! :)

    Does the boss always spawn around the camp? And the palaces are in the 8 possible tiles around the camp?

    The boss always spawns at the camp. The first boss always spawns his palaces on any available space adjacent to the camp. The later bosses work differently.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Died on my next loop and I'm not sure why. Maybe I placed out too many monster tiles or didn't push into a build properly. Regardless, my next loop went the distance, but I still ran from the boss since I was at 10% HP.

    I'm assuming that loops become easier as buildings are constructed at camp, which give me the extra oomph I need to handle the boss. Also, I finally understand the Poll question I made.

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    I don't think so. I remade my save because I wanted to clear out boss traits and I beat the lich after only a few expeditions. just remember that weapon damage trumps everything(or skeleton level if you play the necromancer), even if it means equipping a gray weapon. more weapon damage means taking less damage because enemies die faster, stronger counterattacks, more vampiricm, so even if you take a stat hit it's always going to be worth it.

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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Camp upgrades can represent huge bumps in power sometimes, but other times are barely noticeable. You’ve just got to experiment like much of the game.

    I will say that the first quantum bump in power I found was unlocking a better terrain card to take the slot of the flower fields in the deck. Those fields are rubbish.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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