Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
+7
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Speaking of IE, other than Skaven, I think I'm actually looking forward to Dark Elves. The Daemon coastline seems ripe for just sailing up and down sacking it for slaves and building silly +relation modifiers with Order. Not sure if I would finally go play Rakarth to get the best start location, even if he wants to go into Altdorf, or take another go at Hellebron, who I thoroughly enjoyed in my first campaign.
Actually, Vampire Coast can do this just fine also so maybe I'll do a Sartosa campaign instead.
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
Me too.
Vortex campaign was alright because you could just not engage with it at all. Didn't even need to trigger the rituals, just defeat every race each time it gets to the end and then paint the map.
With 3 they've made improvements but you're still shoehorned in to the race in one way or another. Total war for me has always been about empire building and taking my time decide where to expand.
I hate racing and for me at least it goes against everything I've previously enjoyed in total war games.
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
Me too.
Vortex campaign was alright because you could just not engage with it at all. Didn't even need to trigger the rituals, just defeat every race each time it gets to the end and then paint the map.
With 3 they've made improvements but you're still shoehorned in to the race in one way or another. Total war for me has always been about empire building and taking my time decide where to expand.
I hate racing and for me at least it goes against everything I've previously enjoyed in total war games.
Out of curiosity, is it the Portals existing at all that still makes you feel as if you're in the race? I thought 1.1 did a good enough job at bringing it in line with the Vortex by making it so that if you beat someone at the Forge, it's now another 80+ turns until they can try to win again, combined with Patrols now snuffing the Portals so you basically don't even have to think about it if you don't want to.
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
I've sort of realized that's one of my big issues with WH3, I don't care for the campaign race AND there just don't seem to be any stories going on. It feels very mechanical and boring. The AI is either non existent or hyper aggressive. Trade/diplomacy is kind of a waste. Vassalizing is broken currently. And WH3 has this weird kink where the game is like "no you WILL grind these battles out." It really doesn't respect the player's time. IN WH2 I could spend a 100 turns stomping out Grimgor and have a great time, and none of that feeling is currently in WH3.
I was looking forward to playing High Elves but I'm kinda thinking they're going to be somewhere between mildly and seriously gutted.
I might just go back and restart a High Elf campaign in 2 now that I have a vague idea of how the game works. (protip don't rush dragons and then watch your entire economy, that you had no idea how it worked to begin with, catastrophically crumble).
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Speaking of which, Dwarves are expected to be kinda weak in 3 now unless they get another rework. They weren't exactly stellar coming in, now they lose Magic Resistance. Plus Walled Settlements are generally seen as a detriment now, so that puts a pin in a little bit of their gameplay.
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
I've sort of realized that's one of my big issues with WH3, I don't care for the campaign race AND there just don't seem to be any stories going on. It feels very mechanical and boring. The AI is either non existent or hyper aggressive. Trade/diplomacy is kind of a waste. Vassalizing is broken currently. And WH3 has this weird kink where the game is like "no you WILL grind these battles out." It really doesn't respect the player's time. IN WH2 I could spend a 100 turns stomping out Grimgor and have a great time, and none of that feeling is currently in WH3.
The constant requirement of having to fight battles instead of auto resolve is what is killing my desire for the game. It just sucks having to load up a battle, line up formations, cast some spells just to win with 10 losses as opposed to 500. Like the auto resolve is fucking far out of whack that unless you are just going to fight one battle with that army and then let it sit on garrison duty, you have to fight every single battle. It just drags the campaign so badly.
Edit: In other words, the auto resolve being so fucked up makes the game not fun. Sure smashing an army once in a while is a treat, having to manually fight 3 stacks in a row of empire armies composed of 15 spearmen, 3 archers, 1 crossbowmen and a lord is not, especially with the alternative beinga crushing defeat against a stack of tier 3 ogres.
Smaug6 on
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
Turn 100 report, Kairos's quest for pleasing map boundaries is endless, but fruitful
I've deliberately taken only specific terrain and stopped in the south-center and left buffer states so as to funnel incoming armies all to the same province (Path to the East), where one patrolling stack gets to stomp them repeatedly. I've also not taken any ports/left Nurgle's starting province to prevent vision and leave them also as a buffer state, though I did still catch an Ice Court stack walking through their territory just to get to mine once. I need to steal away that one last region of theirs on the coast and I'll have all the provinces complete. I don't want to go further west as all of the remaining factions there had ports. They'll all friendly with me anyway vs some of the minors I had to eat through, so it's fine to leave them at the moment.
Conveniently by the time I finished up there, Zhao had finished confederating the last minors up in far Northern (NE really) Cathay and was threatening to accumulate enough critical mass to push out the Watchers, so I finally started sending forces over instead of having completely ignored the area after killing Miao on Turn 10. I've got alliances with Dreaded Wo and Eshin and just drew Gritus into the war, though I think I'll probably break NAPs and so on with them soon because they're useless and I want their territory. Eshin at least is sitting in red territory even if they're blocking a province that the Watchers should have. When I buzzsaw through all of the freshly confederated provinces I will finally click the confederate Watchers button as it'll basically be attacking through that territory.
I think this might be the save I use to get the 60k income achievement, even though I know people say they liked Ogres better for it. Tzeentch also can develop his provinces to very respectable numbers, even without having the same kind of factionwide boosts. (Or just pray for the income event). I shouldn't need to play too much past the 'end' of the campaign to get it, maybe turn 140 or so. Maybe more if the Cathay terrain is all unfavorable and I decide to hand it off instead of holding it and need to go find other good terrain to hold.
Gripes for this campaign:
'Main Threat' still doesn't make any sense to me. We have good relations and common enemies who you should be fighting. I shouldn't be your goddamn main threat, doubly so when we don't even share a border. It's such a dumb diplo modifier that sinks any prospective deals. This cropped up for when at various times Ku'Gath and Skarbrand started canceling deals because I was suddenly their main threat, and also prevented me from signing a NAP with the OPM Daemon Prince still in his starting region down at power rank 40 next to the fairly big Orthodoxy and others. He finally signed when the Ice Court won the followers war and he suddenly realized them as his main threat properly.
I'm not sure if it's WAI or they just didn't take it into account but Vassalization counts your military power if allied as the target faction's for determining faction power difference. This was fixed for Confederation in the middle of WH2 and still works in this game, so I'm not sure if they just didn't realize to fix it because Vassalization was so much less prevalent in WH2 or it's actually broken like how it used to be.
Speaking of which, Dwarves are expected to be kinda weak in 3 now unless they get another rework. They weren't exactly stellar coming in, now they lose Magic Resistance. Plus Walled Settlements are generally seen as a detriment now, so that puts a pin in a little bit of their gameplay.
Maybe in MP. But they still have thunderers and chaos has a whole lot of “no shields”. Also magic got significantly weaker in WH3.
Walled settlements are still easier to defend than non-walled settlements. You don’t have to defend the walls, you get to if it’s an advantage.
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Speaking of which, Dwarves are expected to be kinda weak in 3 now unless they get another rework. They weren't exactly stellar coming in, now they lose Magic Resistance. Plus Walled Settlements are generally seen as a detriment now, so that puts a pin in a little bit of their gameplay.
Maybe in MP. But they still have thunderers and chaos has a whole lot of “no shields”. Also magic got significantly weaker in WH3.
Walled settlements are still easier to defend than non-walled settlements. You don’t have to defend the walls, you get to if it’s an advantage.
I would disagree because of two changes:
The different settlement layouts between WH2 vs 3 make it so walls make it much harder for the defending forces to sally and maneuver. While Dwarves specifically don't want to do it that much, it's still a pretty important tool that you don't necessarily want to give up. I even sallied as Tzeentch a couple times against Kislev, in order to rush part of their split deployment as well as give myself more room to set up a crossfire and get some slow flanking done.
More importantly for Dwarves, though, is that walled settlements change it so you're now instead obligated to defend the 2 VPs or else you lose. And frankly a lot of the settlement maps don't make any sense with how and where they've allocated barricades and towers. The walled settlements are just expansions of the un-walled map and where they put the important VPs is NOT where I normally defend the un-walled version of the map. Typically the VPs are just way more exposed, or have less towers, nevermind how a lot of them also aren't the citadel style with one behind the other but are instead relatively split, forcing you to split forces as well. (Or try to play a mobile defense but, well, Dwarves.)
There is only one VP spot on walled settlements. The other spot is a scaling melee defense and flat leadership buff. You don’t have to hold that but it’s good to.
The Mac version of TWW3 was recently released, and they've put up the map as part of its promotion. But the funny thing is... it's a different map than is currently present in game.
The Witch's Wood province - which is a large area with only Laurelorn Forest in it - has had its border reduced to just around the settlement. The rest of the area has had a new province created out of it, called Northern Wasteland (three settlements).
The mountainous area above Broekwater (The Wasteland province) has been filled in, and a three settlement Marches of Couronne exists.
Albion (three settlements) sits on the left edge of the map, in the Sea of Claws.
Brass Keep is not a part of Hochland, but its own province (The Middle Mountains).
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
There is only one VP spot on walled settlements. The other spot is a scaling melee defense and flat leadership buff. You don’t have to hold that but it’s good to.
No, both will tick. The big one is the major one that gives 5 points/tick, but the other is a minor one that gives 2 points/tick in additional to MD and Leadership.
I picked a random walled Skaven settlement from an older save to attack:
If you mouseover the victory bar, that's what it shows.
In this case, that particular map is at least not completely awful for the defender, as both VPs are close together. I don't think the terrain and tower placements are great around those vs some of the other locations on that map but it's not doomed from the onset.
I've been trying a Nurgle campaign recently, and I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Nurgle as a faction can be summed up by one word: 'Slow'. It has to be the slowest moving army in the game, and witout any missile resistance is also very vulnerable to ranged fire. Their selling point seems to be high health but I'm not sure how much of that will be left by the time you engage. On the campaign side, the way their buildings are built and cycle through all tiers means you don't pay to upgrade it, but it also means a large upfront cost. The same goes for units. Recruited at half health from a built up pool, but also seem very expensive for what you actually get. There are some benefits and quirks - like recruitment works anywhere, and you can't build walls but get extra garrison units through infrastructure buildings instead. Plagues are also quite fun once you really get them going.
Right now my main problem is an eternal war with Kislev that I can't make ground in. Kislev feels like the absolute worst faction to fight since their armies consist almost entirely of hybrid ranged units, cavalry and sleds. Oh and they'll all become unbreakable when low on leadership. Best I can do is try and cripple them with plagues before getting into a fight. I've also yet to properly try out Nurgle's flying units (Since the building was expensive).
You need to get the pox flyers. They are nurgles only answer to try and force an engagement with ranged units. They also have some of the only armor piercing dmg available to you.
My failed pre patch nurgle campaign only got rolling when I finally got the upfront cost of the building paid for.
Nurgle economy also sucks, you need to sack capitals to build up capital to expand. Base buildings won't get you there.
I was never a fan of the linear main campaigns they have at launch; it was only when they started adding new lords and factions to 2 that I started playing the Vortex campaign since they tended to be more sandboxy than racing. TW3 I'm just not a fan of the racing, I'm hoping new lords and factions will add more sandboxy stuff. Of course the ultimate sandbox campaign is Mortal/Immortal Empires, though I like the smaller main campaign map too as it's less overwhelming.
I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
I've sort of realized that's one of my big issues with WH3, I don't care for the campaign race AND there just don't seem to be any stories going on. It feels very mechanical and boring. The AI is either non existent or hyper aggressive. Trade/diplomacy is kind of a waste. Vassalizing is broken currently. And WH3 has this weird kink where the game is like "no you WILL grind these battles out." It really doesn't respect the player's time. IN WH2 I could spend a 100 turns stomping out Grimgor and have a great time, and none of that feeling is currently in WH3.
Yeah. There are mods that try to fix a lot of this stuff, but no perfect fix really. A combination of the mod to make "old world" factions (Empire, VC) try harder, the one that dials down anti-player AI bias, the one that makes Chaos factions not auto war with most factions (still a -100 malus, but it does a lot to reduce stacks from across the map honing in on you), disabling the campaign mechanic because the AI is really bad at closing/dealing with chaos rifts, aand the switch start locations mod are my current brew to make the campaign at least kind of work. There's some fun to be had, but ultimately it comes down to whoever made the odd decision to triple down on the scripted-ness of Vortex and the AI just seems to pivot around that focus more or less entirely.
It's just weird for a company that's done such a good job of taking player feedback throughout the lifespan of the previous two games.
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I've been trying a Nurgle campaign recently, and I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Nurgle as a faction can be summed up by one word: 'Slow'. It has to be the slowest moving army in the game, and witout any missile resistance is also very vulnerable to ranged fire. Their selling point seems to be high health but I'm not sure how much of that will be left by the time you engage. On the campaign side, the way their buildings are built and cycle through all tiers means you don't pay to upgrade it, but it also means a large upfront cost. The same goes for units. Recruited at half health from a built up pool, but also seem very expensive for what you actually get. There are some benefits and quirks - like recruitment works anywhere, and you can't build walls but get extra garrison units through infrastructure buildings instead. Plagues are also quite fun once you really get them going.
Right now my main problem is an eternal war with Kislev that I can't make ground in. Kislev feels like the absolute worst faction to fight since their armies consist almost entirely of hybrid ranged units, cavalry and sleds. Oh and they'll all become unbreakable when low on leadership. Best I can do is try and cripple them with plagues before getting into a fight. I've also yet to properly try out Nurgle's flying units (Since the building was expensive).
Nurgle's economy is shit until you get to the sack plague, then you need to change all of your plans and thinking to revolve around that, which kinda sucks.
Combat wise, flyers/toads are nice but you can honestly do fine if you just find a forest and sit in it and rely on magic/Mortis engines. Just spread out a little so the local Ice Witch can't punish your blob too hard until you can snipe them when they rush in. Also, Soul Grinders are your best unit once you can afford them/once you can recruit them.
Plagueridden also shouldn't be underestimated on the campaign map. Yes, they're one of your best tools in combat but having one or two running around spamming Assault Units will also do a lot of damage before you fight.
Having economies rooted in battle and sacking seems to be a theme for the demon factions - or at least the ones I've tried so far. I wonder if Slaanesh and Tzeench will be the same? I have also tried 'money plagues' with the 150 per spread, but I'm not sure if they're really worth much. The replenishment plague was also a massive boost once I got it unlocked, especially when faced with repeated waves of doomstacks heading my way.
Kugath himself is also a bit weird. Massive HP pool but too slow to reliably use in melee, a good caster but his speed cripples him there as well, one of very few artillery based lords but doesn't have the same impact as DJ Khatep. He just hasn't had the same impact as my previous two lords (Skarbrand and Zhao Ming) but since they're both pretty damned good I guess it isn't too surprising.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
Nurgle is interesting, but I do feel like there is just a bit missing from his mechanics, and it could be one of a number of things that could fix it, I think.
But overall, it's a cool civ, and I like that CA is trying out weird thematic concepts.
Nurgle is interesting, but I do feel like there is just a bit missing from his mechanics, and it could be one of a number of things that could fix it, I think.
But overall, it's a cool civ, and I like that CA is trying out weird thematic concepts.
they have really gone all out with how wacky some of the faction mechanics are and it's really cool. it doesn't always work, but they are clearly trying to make mechanics serve flavor in a meaningful way, which is the right attitude i think.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I've been trying a Nurgle campaign recently, and I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Nurgle as a faction can be summed up by one word: 'Slow'. It has to be the slowest moving army in the game, and witout any missile resistance is also very vulnerable to ranged fire. Their selling point seems to be high health but I'm not sure how much of that will be left by the time you engage. On the campaign side, the way their buildings are built and cycle through all tiers means you don't pay to upgrade it, but it also means a large upfront cost. The same goes for units. Recruited at half health from a built up pool, but also seem very expensive for what you actually get. There are some benefits and quirks - like recruitment works anywhere, and you can't build walls but get extra garrison units through infrastructure buildings instead. Plagues are also quite fun once you really get them going.
Right now my main problem is an eternal war with Kislev that I can't make ground in. Kislev feels like the absolute worst faction to fight since their armies consist almost entirely of hybrid ranged units, cavalry and sleds. Oh and they'll all become unbreakable when low on leadership. Best I can do is try and cripple them with plagues before getting into a fight. I've also yet to properly try out Nurgle's flying units (Since the building was expensive).
Oh lord. Wait until you come up against a leveled Tzeentch army, if you haven't already. I had one wipe my nurgle army off the fucking map in a battle and basically gave up after that. I mean yeah you can bring in pox flyers, but there's something bugged with them where they constantly get stuck in combat and can't be extracted, so they die. You're also punished on the siege maps because you have to slow boat up the hill to win and it takes forever.
CA really needed to provide some type of fast cav unit, some kind of AOE missile resistance ability, or give front line units some kind of upgraded missile resistance for Nurgle armies to really work. But it should be pointed out that CA's design intent really seemed to be that the each chaos faction would directly counter another one. And I do find it annoying that a fast cav unit is practically guaranteed as part of any Nurgle DC, if the game even gets any DC's at this point.
Yeah ultimately, despite it making thematic sense, I think having the chaos armies be so one dimensional/focused wasn't the right decision. It seems like basically everyone expects that to be changed with DLC too, given all of the obvious omissions and how they've treated prior games. The Tzeentch chaos warriors have made that army a lot more enjoyable. They're not as tanky or damaging as Khorne warriors which totally makes sense to reflect the god differences -- I think going more along those lines are better than completely omitting stuff.
Lizardmen were dinged a bit at TWW2 launch for being samey, but if you look at their launch roster it's very diverse in relation to some of the monogod stuff. Obviously they had the beefy infantry and dinosaurs, but they also had cavalry, flying units, stealthy skirmisher units, and artillery as well. The artillery obviously couldn't be the strongest artillery for balance reasons, but it was still there and I loved having it around.
Having economies rooted in battle and sacking seems to be a theme for the demon factions - or at least the ones I've tried so far. I wonder if Slaanesh and Tzeench will be the same? I have also tried 'money plagues' with the 150 per spread, but I'm not sure if they're really worth much. The replenishment plague was also a massive boost once I got it unlocked, especially when faced with repeated waves of doomstacks heading my way.
Kugath himself is also a bit weird. Massive HP pool but too slow to reliably use in melee, a good caster but his speed cripples him there as well, one of very few artillery based lords but doesn't have the same impact as DJ Khatep. He just hasn't had the same impact as my previous two lords (Skarbrand and Zhao Ming) but since they're both pretty damned good I guess it isn't too surprising.
Tzeentch isn't sack economy. They don't have faction wide econ bonuses or Boost stacking, so they can't get to the same kind of heights the real powerhouses do, but they can still easily get to 4k+ income per 4 region province.
Ku'gath works in melee if you're deathballing because he's a Mortis Engine. Just grind it out and he'll kill a lot of things, just try not to have him duel. (Like GUOs he's better at it than at hitting individual trash due to animation fuckery but their stats don't quite hold up.)
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
It's kind of funny that they are quoting LegendofTotalWar word for word in a lot of these patch notes.
Yeah, there's been a lot of shooting the messenger/ad hominem stuff going on in general. The guy is a bit of a tool and seems like he needs to relax a bit from everything I've heard, buuut his points and criticisms were largely very valid.
Either way, hooray for the update. Looks like there's a lot of good stuff in there to fix the fundamentals. The anti player bias and unit responsiveness stuff should go a long way to making the game feel better.
Fiatil on
0
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
It's kind of funny that they are quoting LegendofTotalWar word for word in a lot of these patch notes.
Yeah, there's been a lot of shooting the messenger/ad hominem stuff going on in general. The guy is a bit of a tool and seems like he needs to relax a bit from everything I've heard, buuut his points and criticisms were largely very valid.
Oh for sure. Legend is high on his own farts, but a lot of his criticisms were valid. Frankly I'm enjoying his content less and less because of how upset he gets over his fans. Instead of simply ignoring the trolls he's feeding them and it's getting old.
Yeah I stopped watching him regularly months ago and every time I try to watch his streams now he's just a drag. Might check him out again when IE launches. Maybe.
Mounts now automatically unlock for all mounted characters—no skill points necessary!
Finally! They should have did that in Warhammer 1.
Rest of the patch note feels: What's all these Warhammer 2 technologies doing in Warhammer 3 hmm? Also all these QoL changes and improvements?
Compared to 1.1 this is actually a kinda meaty patch with good improvements. Feels kinda potion of speedy. Not quite but almost. The skill changes are next patch.
I'm tempted to jump in but it's a 112 gig download and I haven't finished Chaos Gate yet.
Those are nice patch notes, but there are still some pretty core gameplay issues that need fixing. Several skills just not working at all, cavalry having all sorts of dumb animation and knock back issues, and the AI just walking through units, to name a few. At least it is moving in the right direction.
I've been trying a Nurgle campaign recently, and I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Nurgle as a faction can be summed up by one word: 'Slow'. It has to be the slowest moving army in the game, and witout any missile resistance is also very vulnerable to ranged fire. Their selling point seems to be high health but I'm not sure how much of that will be left by the time you engage. On the campaign side, the way their buildings are built and cycle through all tiers means you don't pay to upgrade it, but it also means a large upfront cost. The same goes for units. Recruited at half health from a built up pool, but also seem very expensive for what you actually get. There are some benefits and quirks - like recruitment works anywhere, and you can't build walls but get extra garrison units through infrastructure buildings instead. Plagues are also quite fun once you really get them going.
Right now my main problem is an eternal war with Kislev that I can't make ground in. Kislev feels like the absolute worst faction to fight since their armies consist almost entirely of hybrid ranged units, cavalry and sleds. Oh and they'll all become unbreakable when low on leadership. Best I can do is try and cripple them with plagues before getting into a fight. I've also yet to properly try out Nurgle's flying units (Since the building was expensive).
Oh lord. Wait until you come up against a leveled Tzeentch army, if you haven't already. I had one wipe my nurgle army off the fucking map in a battle and basically gave up after that. I mean yeah you can bring in pox flyers, but there's something bugged with them where they constantly get stuck in combat and can't be extracted, so they die. You're also punished on the siege maps because you have to slow boat up the hill to win and it takes forever.
CA really needed to provide some type of fast cav unit, some kind of AOE missile resistance ability, or give front line units some kind of upgraded missile resistance for Nurgle armies to really work. But it should be pointed out that CA's design intent really seemed to be that the each chaos faction would directly counter another one. And I do find it annoying that a fast cav unit is practically guaranteed as part of any Nurgle DC, if the game even gets any DC's at this point.
Tzeentch AI armies seem to be bugged, using abilities faster and more often than should be possible. That might be part of the difficulty in fighting them.
Apparently Legend spoke to the devs and they gave the impression RoC is sort of being de-emphasized in favour of IE for the moment (at least) so that IE launches well. That's probably for the best but if they prioritize IE even more going forward they need to make that damn map free to owners of Warhammer 3.
Having to buy the first two games just to get that map is a massive own goal given the reception of RoC.
danx on
+1
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I'd be OK with making Immortal Empires paid DLC if you don't have the first 2 games. They partially sold the first 2 games on the idea that if you owned both of them they'd unlock the grand map in the 3rd game.
Heh yeah one of the reasons TWW1 has lower reviews now than historically is because it still costs $60 when it's not on sale. They're really going for that late to the party whale money with Im/mortal Empires.
The issue is the game needs to push DLC to live. More people having access to it means more DLC sales. I get that they sold it that way initially but it was always super stupid in a trilogy. If it was two games fine, but 3 is a big ask. The least they could do is offer a cheap bundle of the first two games if they're not going to make the map available.
If they did offer IE for free, the factions from the first two games so there would still be would still be locked it'd just be the map. I think that'd be fine. I doubt they're going to do this at all but it would be nice if they're essentially treating 2.0 as a soft reboot.
Having economies rooted in battle and sacking seems to be a theme for the demon factions - or at least the ones I've tried so far. I wonder if Slaanesh and Tzeench will be the same? I have also tried 'money plagues' with the 150 per spread, but I'm not sure if they're really worth much. The replenishment plague was also a massive boost once I got it unlocked, especially when faced with repeated waves of doomstacks heading my way.
Kugath himself is also a bit weird. Massive HP pool but too slow to reliably use in melee, a good caster but his speed cripples him there as well, one of very few artillery based lords but doesn't have the same impact as DJ Khatep. He just hasn't had the same impact as my previous two lords (Skarbrand and Zhao Ming) but since they're both pretty damned good I guess it isn't too surprising.
Slaanesh can get really, really silly with cult spam; you wind up just overwhelming your opponent with hordes of cultists who then proceed to spread gifts of slaanesh and more cults until you've completely brute forced seduction onto the target, at which point they can be vassalized. Best part is that even if the targetted faction gets confederated/conquered your cult remains for as long as they aren't destroyed, so you can get stupid wealthy from turning cathy or kislev into a bunch of thots worshipping your femboi god and their econ then directly benefits *you*.
It's kind of funny that they are quoting LegendofTotalWar word for word in a lot of these patch notes.
Yeah, there's been a lot of shooting the messenger/ad hominem stuff going on in general. The guy is a bit of a tool and seems like he needs to relax a bit from everything I've heard, buuut his points and criticisms were largely very valid.
Either way, hooray for the update. Looks like there's a lot of good stuff in there to fix the fundamentals. The anti player bias and unit responsiveness stuff should go a long way to making the game feel better.
If you watch like 30-60 minutes of his live streams he's usually fairly level headed. But after a few hours of his viewers egging him on he gets fairly unbearable.
I'd still be watching 5+ hour livestreams by him (because it makes for great background noise and I learned a lot doing that) but only if he ignored his livechat which would sort of defeat the entire purpose of him doing those livestreams so...
Anyways good patch notes and a step in the right direction for sure.
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I also think TW3 got affected by the pandemic which wasn't a factor for 1 or 2, which is why we're seeing such a delayed roadmap; I think TW3 will get to the level of TW2 eventually, but it's just going to take awhile. Would be nice if they threw us some Free-LC Lords along the way though
Actually, Vampire Coast can do this just fine also so maybe I'll do a Sartosa campaign instead.
Me too.
Vortex campaign was alright because you could just not engage with it at all. Didn't even need to trigger the rituals, just defeat every race each time it gets to the end and then paint the map.
With 3 they've made improvements but you're still shoehorned in to the race in one way or another. Total war for me has always been about empire building and taking my time decide where to expand.
I hate racing and for me at least it goes against everything I've previously enjoyed in total war games.
I've sort of realized that's one of my big issues with WH3, I don't care for the campaign race AND there just don't seem to be any stories going on. It feels very mechanical and boring. The AI is either non existent or hyper aggressive. Trade/diplomacy is kind of a waste. Vassalizing is broken currently. And WH3 has this weird kink where the game is like "no you WILL grind these battles out." It really doesn't respect the player's time. IN WH2 I could spend a 100 turns stomping out Grimgor and have a great time, and none of that feeling is currently in WH3.
I might just go back and restart a High Elf campaign in 2 now that I have a vague idea of how the game works. (protip don't rush dragons and then watch your entire economy, that you had no idea how it worked to begin with, catastrophically crumble).
The constant requirement of having to fight battles instead of auto resolve is what is killing my desire for the game. It just sucks having to load up a battle, line up formations, cast some spells just to win with 10 losses as opposed to 500. Like the auto resolve is fucking far out of whack that unless you are just going to fight one battle with that army and then let it sit on garrison duty, you have to fight every single battle. It just drags the campaign so badly.
Edit: In other words, the auto resolve being so fucked up makes the game not fun. Sure smashing an army once in a while is a treat, having to manually fight 3 stacks in a row of empire armies composed of 15 spearmen, 3 archers, 1 crossbowmen and a lord is not, especially with the alternative beinga crushing defeat against a stack of tier 3 ogres.
I've deliberately taken only specific terrain and stopped in the south-center and left buffer states so as to funnel incoming armies all to the same province (Path to the East), where one patrolling stack gets to stomp them repeatedly. I've also not taken any ports/left Nurgle's starting province to prevent vision and leave them also as a buffer state, though I did still catch an Ice Court stack walking through their territory just to get to mine once. I need to steal away that one last region of theirs on the coast and I'll have all the provinces complete. I don't want to go further west as all of the remaining factions there had ports. They'll all friendly with me anyway vs some of the minors I had to eat through, so it's fine to leave them at the moment.
Conveniently by the time I finished up there, Zhao had finished confederating the last minors up in far Northern (NE really) Cathay and was threatening to accumulate enough critical mass to push out the Watchers, so I finally started sending forces over instead of having completely ignored the area after killing Miao on Turn 10. I've got alliances with Dreaded Wo and Eshin and just drew Gritus into the war, though I think I'll probably break NAPs and so on with them soon because they're useless and I want their territory. Eshin at least is sitting in red territory even if they're blocking a province that the Watchers should have. When I buzzsaw through all of the freshly confederated provinces I will finally click the confederate Watchers button as it'll basically be attacking through that territory.
I think this might be the save I use to get the 60k income achievement, even though I know people say they liked Ogres better for it. Tzeentch also can develop his provinces to very respectable numbers, even without having the same kind of factionwide boosts. (Or just pray for the income event). I shouldn't need to play too much past the 'end' of the campaign to get it, maybe turn 140 or so. Maybe more if the Cathay terrain is all unfavorable and I decide to hand it off instead of holding it and need to go find other good terrain to hold.
Gripes for this campaign:
'Main Threat' still doesn't make any sense to me. We have good relations and common enemies who you should be fighting. I shouldn't be your goddamn main threat, doubly so when we don't even share a border. It's such a dumb diplo modifier that sinks any prospective deals. This cropped up for when at various times Ku'Gath and Skarbrand started canceling deals because I was suddenly their main threat, and also prevented me from signing a NAP with the OPM Daemon Prince still in his starting region down at power rank 40 next to the fairly big Orthodoxy and others. He finally signed when the Ice Court won the followers war and he suddenly realized them as his main threat properly.
I'm not sure if it's WAI or they just didn't take it into account but Vassalization counts your military power if allied as the target faction's for determining faction power difference. This was fixed for Confederation in the middle of WH2 and still works in this game, so I'm not sure if they just didn't realize to fix it because Vassalization was so much less prevalent in WH2 or it's actually broken like how it used to be.
Maybe in MP. But they still have thunderers and chaos has a whole lot of “no shields”. Also magic got significantly weaker in WH3.
Walled settlements are still easier to defend than non-walled settlements. You don’t have to defend the walls, you get to if it’s an advantage.
The different settlement layouts between WH2 vs 3 make it so walls make it much harder for the defending forces to sally and maneuver. While Dwarves specifically don't want to do it that much, it's still a pretty important tool that you don't necessarily want to give up. I even sallied as Tzeentch a couple times against Kislev, in order to rush part of their split deployment as well as give myself more room to set up a crossfire and get some slow flanking done.
More importantly for Dwarves, though, is that walled settlements change it so you're now instead obligated to defend the 2 VPs or else you lose. And frankly a lot of the settlement maps don't make any sense with how and where they've allocated barricades and towers. The walled settlements are just expansions of the un-walled map and where they put the important VPs is NOT where I normally defend the un-walled version of the map. Typically the VPs are just way more exposed, or have less towers, nevermind how a lot of them also aren't the citadel style with one behind the other but are instead relatively split, forcing you to split forces as well. (Or try to play a mobile defense but, well, Dwarves.)
I picked a random walled Skaven settlement from an older save to attack:
If you mouseover the victory bar, that's what it shows.
In this case, that particular map is at least not completely awful for the defender, as both VPs are close together. I don't think the terrain and tower placements are great around those vs some of the other locations on that map but it's not doomed from the onset.
Nurgle as a faction can be summed up by one word: 'Slow'. It has to be the slowest moving army in the game, and witout any missile resistance is also very vulnerable to ranged fire. Their selling point seems to be high health but I'm not sure how much of that will be left by the time you engage. On the campaign side, the way their buildings are built and cycle through all tiers means you don't pay to upgrade it, but it also means a large upfront cost. The same goes for units. Recruited at half health from a built up pool, but also seem very expensive for what you actually get. There are some benefits and quirks - like recruitment works anywhere, and you can't build walls but get extra garrison units through infrastructure buildings instead. Plagues are also quite fun once you really get them going.
Right now my main problem is an eternal war with Kislev that I can't make ground in. Kislev feels like the absolute worst faction to fight since their armies consist almost entirely of hybrid ranged units, cavalry and sleds. Oh and they'll all become unbreakable when low on leadership. Best I can do is try and cripple them with plagues before getting into a fight. I've also yet to properly try out Nurgle's flying units (Since the building was expensive).
My failed pre patch nurgle campaign only got rolling when I finally got the upfront cost of the building paid for.
Nurgle economy also sucks, you need to sack capitals to build up capital to expand. Base buildings won't get you there.
Yeah. There are mods that try to fix a lot of this stuff, but no perfect fix really. A combination of the mod to make "old world" factions (Empire, VC) try harder, the one that dials down anti-player AI bias, the one that makes Chaos factions not auto war with most factions (still a -100 malus, but it does a lot to reduce stacks from across the map honing in on you), disabling the campaign mechanic because the AI is really bad at closing/dealing with chaos rifts, aand the switch start locations mod are my current brew to make the campaign at least kind of work. There's some fun to be had, but ultimately it comes down to whoever made the odd decision to triple down on the scripted-ness of Vortex and the AI just seems to pivot around that focus more or less entirely.
It's just weird for a company that's done such a good job of taking player feedback throughout the lifespan of the previous two games.
Combat wise, flyers/toads are nice but you can honestly do fine if you just find a forest and sit in it and rely on magic/Mortis engines. Just spread out a little so the local Ice Witch can't punish your blob too hard until you can snipe them when they rush in. Also, Soul Grinders are your best unit once you can afford them/once you can recruit them.
Plagueridden also shouldn't be underestimated on the campaign map. Yes, they're one of your best tools in combat but having one or two running around spamming Assault Units will also do a lot of damage before you fight.
Kugath himself is also a bit weird. Massive HP pool but too slow to reliably use in melee, a good caster but his speed cripples him there as well, one of very few artillery based lords but doesn't have the same impact as DJ Khatep. He just hasn't had the same impact as my previous two lords (Skarbrand and Zhao Ming) but since they're both pretty damned good I guess it isn't too surprising.
But overall, it's a cool civ, and I like that CA is trying out weird thematic concepts.
they have really gone all out with how wacky some of the faction mechanics are and it's really cool. it doesn't always work, but they are clearly trying to make mechanics serve flavor in a meaningful way, which is the right attitude i think.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Oh lord. Wait until you come up against a leveled Tzeentch army, if you haven't already. I had one wipe my nurgle army off the fucking map in a battle and basically gave up after that. I mean yeah you can bring in pox flyers, but there's something bugged with them where they constantly get stuck in combat and can't be extracted, so they die. You're also punished on the siege maps because you have to slow boat up the hill to win and it takes forever.
CA really needed to provide some type of fast cav unit, some kind of AOE missile resistance ability, or give front line units some kind of upgraded missile resistance for Nurgle armies to really work. But it should be pointed out that CA's design intent really seemed to be that the each chaos faction would directly counter another one. And I do find it annoying that a fast cav unit is practically guaranteed as part of any Nurgle DC, if the game even gets any DC's at this point.
Lizardmen were dinged a bit at TWW2 launch for being samey, but if you look at their launch roster it's very diverse in relation to some of the monogod stuff. Obviously they had the beefy infantry and dinosaurs, but they also had cavalry, flying units, stealthy skirmisher units, and artillery as well. The artillery obviously couldn't be the strongest artillery for balance reasons, but it was still there and I loved having it around.
The patch notes did say they slightly improved the speed of nurgle units.
The charge changes should help with the toads being useless.
Flyers are still buggy
Ku'gath works in melee if you're deathballing because he's a Mortis Engine. Just grind it out and he'll kill a lot of things, just try not to have him duel. (Like GUOs he's better at it than at hitting individual trash due to animation fuckery but their stats don't quite hold up.)
Yeah, there's been a lot of shooting the messenger/ad hominem stuff going on in general. The guy is a bit of a tool and seems like he needs to relax a bit from everything I've heard, buuut his points and criticisms were largely very valid.
Either way, hooray for the update. Looks like there's a lot of good stuff in there to fix the fundamentals. The anti player bias and unit responsiveness stuff should go a long way to making the game feel better.
Oh for sure. Legend is high on his own farts, but a lot of his criticisms were valid. Frankly I'm enjoying his content less and less because of how upset he gets over his fans. Instead of simply ignoring the trolls he's feeding them and it's getting old.
Finally! They should have did that in Warhammer 1.
Rest of the patch note feels: What's all these Warhammer 2 technologies doing in Warhammer 3 hmm? Also all these QoL changes and improvements?
Compared to 1.1 this is actually a kinda meaty patch with good improvements. Feels kinda potion of speedy. Not quite but almost. The skill changes are next patch.
I'm tempted to jump in but it's a 112 gig download and I haven't finished Chaos Gate yet.
Tzeentch AI armies seem to be bugged, using abilities faster and more often than should be possible. That might be part of the difficulty in fighting them.
Having to buy the first two games just to get that map is a massive own goal given the reception of RoC.
If they did offer IE for free, the factions from the first two games so there would still be would still be locked it'd just be the map. I think that'd be fine. I doubt they're going to do this at all but it would be nice if they're essentially treating 2.0 as a soft reboot.
Slaanesh can get really, really silly with cult spam; you wind up just overwhelming your opponent with hordes of cultists who then proceed to spread gifts of slaanesh and more cults until you've completely brute forced seduction onto the target, at which point they can be vassalized. Best part is that even if the targetted faction gets confederated/conquered your cult remains for as long as they aren't destroyed, so you can get stupid wealthy from turning cathy or kislev into a bunch of thots worshipping your femboi god and their econ then directly benefits *you*.
If you watch like 30-60 minutes of his live streams he's usually fairly level headed. But after a few hours of his viewers egging him on he gets fairly unbearable.
I'd still be watching 5+ hour livestreams by him (because it makes for great background noise and I learned a lot doing that) but only if he ignored his livechat which would sort of defeat the entire purpose of him doing those livestreams so...
Anyways good patch notes and a step in the right direction for sure.