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[Total War] where Cao Cao outmaneuvers Wurzag in Rome

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  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    I have no idea about the tabletop, and have no clue if it'll actually be this way, but the idea of a faction where everyone is a bit of a melee beatstick, even the casters (the knoblars or whatever are just chaff, and excepted) sounds pretty fun. "Oh you caught my caster? Good luck with that" Balanced by just not having as much stuff, I'd imagine, and probably being really, really shootable. Do ogres get regen? It seems like they should but maybe that's just the troll overlap.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    There are quite a few factions where that is the case of close enough. Ranged AP damage is still enough to deal with it pretty handily.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    The one thing I know for sure about tabletop is that a single model can cost as much as an entire game. I've seen single Warhammer tabletop models going for more than the entire trilogy and all the DLC.

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    CorsiniFiatil
  • OpposingFarceOpposingFarce Registered User regular
    edited November 17
    Gnoblar Trappers throw traps at enemies that come too close

    Just like ironbreakers throwing mines, I imagine

    first mod idea: ironbreaker variant which throw traps which severely slow hit enemies

    Edit: lol at all ogre infantry being able to destroy walls. Amazing.

    OpposingFarce on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    The one thing I know for sure about tabletop is that a single model can cost as much as an entire game. I've seen single Warhammer tabletop models going for more than the entire trilogy and all the DLC.

    Games Workshop played a lot with the idea of price elasticity back in the 90's and 00's and eventually came to the conclusion that their fanbase will just pay whatever the fuck they decide to charge.

    I recently bought a 3000 point Genestealer Cult army, but I escaped the worst of it by a. buying most things through split box resellers and b. the army not having anything with absurd pricing (yet). But it was still obscenely expensive for what it is.

  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Karoz wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    For the bracing, is it still automatic (and now just indicated by an icon) or do you have to hit a button to make it happen?

    I believe it's still automatic, they're just indicating that they are in fact braced now.

    Kinda worried with the fire countering any healing that it's just gonna cause it to be even more must take in multiplayer matches. All undead factions have a weakness to fire and then countering healing on top of that is going to severely hurt Vampire Counts and probably Nagash whenever his faction comes out.

    Karoz To be fair, the video said that it will 'slow down healing', not 'counter any healing'. So just a reduction, not prevention.

    Sure but there wasn't a true counter to healing before this and already giving it to fire magic which already has one of the best and easily castable wind spells (burning head) just seems to put it in god tier for multiplayer.

    H3KnucklesMoridin889
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Looking at the Ogre mechanic, they may be one of the only armies where I bother to try and cast the Leadership debuff on an enemy. Single target is kinda shit but maybe it'll help cause a chain rout, and either way you'll generate their resource on that unit at least.

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  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited November 18
    An early blog on Greassus and Skrag's faction/lord effects and start positions. (The Ivory road for the former, and The Southern Grey Mountains for the latter.)

    More importantly: the community manager posted some vomit icons and the game's main writer tweeted a fly rubbing its forelimbs together, so... there are expectations of a Nurgle reveal pretty soon.

    LordSolarMacharius on
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I'm glad they delayed the release of Warhammer 3. I much prefer this slow burn marketing approach rather than dumping all the info at once. Plus this gives them more time to tweak based on community feedback from said marketing material. Say what you will about corporate interests but CA is showing us Warhammer 3 in a way we didn't get with game 2 or 1. Worts and all.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So why does Greasus Goldtooth look like naked Santa Claus?

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    So why does Greasus Goldtooth look like naked Santa Claus?

    Why not?

    ElvenshaeH3Knuckles
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited November 18


    I love that N'kari looks like his/her classic artwork (with the hands and claws reversed, but I assume that to match the animation of other Keepers of Scecrets).

    I also love that Ku'Gath has his Palanquin - I was worried after Greasus ended up with a cart that they'd be cut. (Kind of makes me wonder why they didn't just borrow the Palanquin animations and reprupose them into an Ogre-y one for him, though).

    I love how creepy the Fiends of Slaanesh look, and the Exalted Chariots/Hellflayers look pretty boss.

    LordSolarMacharius on
    altidFiendishrabbitFencingsaxSpectrumElvenshaeArdoldanxKarozLord_AsmodeusAegeri
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited November 18
    Seems like the Advisor is looking for a new deal.

    Also, interesting that they didn't go for either of the old Keeper of Secrets designs.

    Fiendishrabbit on
    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    LordSolarMachariusExtreaminatusLord_Asmodeus
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited November 18
    Also, interesting that they didn't go for either of the old Keeper of Secrets designs.

    The body matches the new (current) KoS model (minus the cape).

    The head is different, but that's matching N'Kari's original art specifically:

    400px-Aenarion.jpg

    (That's him/her fighting Aenarion, Malekith's daddy/Morathi's hubby/Tyrion & Teclis' ancient ancestor.)

    //

    Also, roster units that can be seen in the trailer:
    Nurgle
    • Ku'Gath Plaguefather
    • Great Unclean One
    • Herald of Nurgle
    • Nurglings
    • Plaguebearers
    • Beasts of Nurgle
    • Rot Flies/Plague Drones
    • Plague Toads/Pox Riders
    • Spawn of Nurgle
    • Forsaken of Nurgle
    Not seen, but can be assumed:
    • Nurgle Cultist
    • Plaguebringer
    • Exalted Plaguebearers
    • Soul Grinder of Nurgle
    • Furies of Nurgle

    Slaanesh
    • N'Kari
    • Keeper of Secrets
    • Herald of Slaanesh
    • Daemonettes
    • Exalted Daemonettes
    • Fiends of Slaanesh
    • Slaaneshi Marauders/with Spears
    • Hellstriders
    • Seekers
    • Seeker Chariots
    • Exalted Seeker Chariots
    • Hellflayers
    • Furies of Slaanesh
    Not seen, but can be assumed:
    • Slaaneshi Cultist
    • Alluress
    • Hellscourges
    • Soul Grinder of Slaanesh
    • Spawn of Slaanesh(?)

    //

    Also the statues at the beginning seem to be a mix of the Slaaneshi Marauders and a bunch of female Elves. The latter of which is quite possibly the Cultist, but could be a Devoted of Slaanesh unit.

    LordSolarMacharius on
    ElvenshaeFiendishrabbitArdolGolden Yakaltid
  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    Oh nurgle, I love your theme so much and hate your playstyle so bad.

    FiendishrabbitElvenshaeExtreaminatusdanxFencingsax
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Plague Toads have always been some of my favorite Forge World models, but I've never gotten any because $$$. I will field some at last!

    Golden Yak
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Also, interesting that they didn't go for either of the old Keeper of Secrets designs.

    The body matches the new (current) KoS model (minus the cape).

    There does appear to be caped Keepers though, as around 2:08 with the big Slaanesh daemon army scene you can see an AoS-style Keeper walking with sword and shield and cape. I imagine it's going to be like with Fateweaver and regular Lords of Change, multiple versions of different Greater Daemon units.

    Also, and I can't believe this is happening, but there appears to be an alternate mode for nurgling units where they glom together Voltron-style and walk around as big humanoid conglomerates. If you look at 2:19, when the guy is thrashing around covered in nurglings, keep an eye on the right side of the screen. You'll see batches of nurglings running by, piggy-backing on each other, before a couple of nurgling megazords lumber past.

    H9f4bVe.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Welp, I can honeslty say, I'm glad they waited on Chaos and did them right.

    This looks fantastic.

    danxMr RayaltidKruiteFencingsaxGolden YakSpectrumFiendishrabbitLord_AsmodeusGiantGeek2020
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited November 19
    Nurgle Mechanics blog.

    Lot of effort seems to have gone into making them play pretty uniquely on the campaign map.
    • You don't build up settlements traditionally. Instead, Nurgle buildings have life cycles. They grow and wither on their own.
    • (The "height" of the building's growth/wither cycle is determined by the main settlement's level.)
    • These buildings add units to a recruitment pool as they grow and contract, rather than you having unlimited recruitment.
    • Rather than spending turns recruiting full units, Nurgle gets the unit right away but not at full health, requiring replenishment.
    • (There is an Unholy Machination - see: Rites - to disable movement in exchange for +20% replenishment.)
    • Nurgle has an extensive Plague Cauldron mechanic, allowing you to tailor your own plagues.
    • Plagues inherently spread Nurgle Corruption, making it easier for the faction to do so than other Chaos factions.
    • Nurgle's tech tree is seven pods of seven techs (requiring four researched before moving to the next).
    • Techs include ways to improve recruitment, improve buildings' life cycles, add spells to SEM Great Unclean Ones, and improve Plagues. (Amongst the normal things.)
    • Certain techs will speed up or slow down your research rate.

    (Also a small look at a very zombie-ish Nurgle Cultist. And an obscured glimpse of the Nurgle Soulgrinder, which happily seems to have a much flabbier body shape than the Khorne/Tzeentch one.)

    Also also, as the settlements shown off are in the Cliffs of Death province, that's likely where Ku'Gath Plaguefather will start.

    Can also update the known roster to:
    • Ku'Gath
    • Exalted Great Unclean One
    • Herald of Nurgle
    • Plagueridden
    • Cultist of Nurgle
    • Nurglings
    • Forsaken
    • Plaguebearers
    • Exalted Plaguebearers
    • Spawn of Nurgle
    • Beasts of Nurgle
    • Soulgrinder of Nurgle
    • Great Unclean One
    • Plague Toads
    • Pox Riders
    • Furies of Nurgle
    • Rot Flies
    • Plague Drones
    • Plague Drones with Death's Heads

    LordSolarMacharius on
    FiendishrabbitFencingsaxKarozLord_Asmodeus
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited November 19
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/plagues-pestilence-boils-and-bulbous-buboes-the-joy-of-playing-nurgle-in-campaign/
    Nurgle does not spread akin to a normal faction. There are no labourers building great monuments to their gods, no scribes researching their latest magical obsession, not even the gruesome fighting pits of a Khornate bloodbath disguising itself as a town or city. Grandfather’s people need not gather to worship nor prove themselves with acts of devotion – he runs through their blood, after all.

    No, settlements infected by Nurgle are closer to growths that blight the landscape than real towns. Fields of rotting flowers, mushrooms and creeping vines – and at the center of it all, a great tree pulsing with life, death, and infection.

    In this manner, Nurgle buildings are not upgraded, they grow, flourish, die, and are reborn. Each building will evolve to its next phase over a number of turns, eventually withering and starting again from a base state. At each point its effects will be different, and each new evolution will add units to the recruitment pool – which we’ll come on to in a second.

    Say you choose a building slot to house a Rancid Aloe. After a few turns of building, it will complete and add a Forsaken of Nurgle unit to your pool, the secretions from the plant having been used to fuse metal and flesh in a manner pleasing to Grandfather. It will then begin to pollinate, and four turns later enter the germination phase. This increases the income the building generates and adds another unit of Forsaken to your pool. Another four turns, another boost in income, and this time a Spawn of Nurgle.

    This is true of all Nurgle buildings, be they for infrastructure or provide units. Indeed, many do both, spewing Nurglings as a byproduct even as their primary purpose is to support the region by infecting the Earth itself, increasing Control. In addition, various buildings, technologies, plagues, and so on can decrease the time between each phase, making the production of units quicker.
    On that topic, Nurgle does not recruit units in the standard way. Rather than waiting several turns for a regiment to become ready to fight, groups of daemons are summoned directly to an army, raring to go. Units hired this way do not start at full strength, replenishing over time – another thing that can be buffed by various Nurglish skills and technologies. They can also be recruited in any neutral or friendly territory from a global pool, pulled from the Chaos Realms to help in the fight. There are caps on how many of each unit can be in the global pool, but as you approach the late game you are going to be able to fill and refill armies at an alarming rate.

    Spectrum on
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    FencingsaxBloodySlothKarozLord_AsmodeusGolden YakArdolGiantGeek2020
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Well. Nurgle is easily the most unique faction in Total Warhammer so far. That's some craaazy mechanics.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    BloodySlothFencingsaxSharpyVIILordSolarMachariusdanxOlivawKarozLord_AsmodeusGolden YakArdolboogedybooGiantGeek2020
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I am really glad they are just going all out

    LordSolarMachariusKruiteOlivawKarozH3KnucklesLord_AsmodeusMr RayGolden YakArdolGiantGeek2020
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited November 19
    This is definitely the first Warhammer total war where I have no idea which faction I want to play first.

    Probably just gonna have to start a campaign with every faction and see which sticks the best.

    SharpyVII on
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Im sold. Papa nurgle on my first playthrough

    Moridin889Karoz
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So I wanted some TW and didn’t want to get into a warhammer 2 game with the new one coming out so soon, so I reinstalled rome 2 again…

    Running these mods

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=754698092

    Misnamed community patch - its actually an update of gameplay mechanics to match a lot of things in warhammer and Attilla.

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=501005092

    Sebidee’s unit roster overhail

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1214366088

    Banditry and sanitation - actually redone by the unofficial patch to be more like attila than empire divided but it needs this to work




    I’m actually having a ton of fun.. I forgot how great seiges were in earlier total war games especially if you have a reinforcing army. Being able to have a navy do an amphibious landing or give artillery support to an assault is really cool as well.

    H3Knuckles
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I think Cathay is going to be my first playthrough. They strike me as the lovechild of Skaven and Dwarves which were my favorite factions in game 2 and 1. I'm also really digging their artillery options.

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    Olivaw
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I was pretty set on Khorne or Tzeentch at first but now Nurgle is up there.

    I’ve never been the biggest Slaanesh fan, but let’s see if they wow me.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I like tzeentch because I've been a fan of sarthoreal since TW1, but if I had to pick one to worship it'd be papa nurgle

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    They are really pulling all the stops with the WH3 races. Also, they're enhanced implementations of pretty much every good mechanic in a total war game (Nurgle stealing the recruitment mechanics from Thrones of Britannia being the latest one) and packing it all into one game.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Fencingsax
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I think it’s more that they spent so long revamping the Warhammer 1 and 2 races to have these unique mechanics that if they left them out of Warhammer 3 the game would feel like a huge step back and then they’d have to put in more time to revamp those races.

    Better to just build them from the ground up with their unique mechanics.

    Fencingsax
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    I hope they improve the in-battle AI. That's really the only thing big upgrade from TW2 I wanted that hasn't been mentioned yet. Everything else looks great.

    Skill system could use a rework too, they're getting better (newer lords and heroes have better skills) but late game it is a real hassle to have 3-6 "skill up" notifications for a bunch of heroes that will all be spec'd the same way.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Some of the gameplay videos they showed they talked about the AI being better, like properly manging its forces int a 360 degree seige with multiple entry points and using magic better.

    It's still not going to be as good as a player, but it looks like they've made some good improvements.

    PotatoNinjaFencingsax
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    I don't need it to be as good as a player. I don't want to lose that often!

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
    DeadfallH3KnucklesFencingsax
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    I haven't been keeping up on coverage since the delay meant I didn't have to care about this game for a while, but I just saw the siege rework and I know it's just an engine thing and all but boy they really aren't able to solve the ladder problem, huh

    Just so weird to see malformed, mutated, literal demons putting up simple wooden ladders and climbing up them instead of just like... scaling the walls like the weird monsters they are, or using some other more creative method of ascent

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I haven't been keeping up on coverage since the delay meant I didn't have to care about this game for a while, but I just saw the siege rework and I know it's just an engine thing and all but boy they really aren't able to solve the ladder problem, huh

    Just so weird to see malformed, mutated, literal demons putting up simple wooden ladders and climbing up them instead of just like... scaling the walls like the weird monsters they are, or using some other more creative method of ascent

    I assume that's the kind of thing that is on a wantlist, but isn't particularly high priority.

    Olivaw
  • OpposingFarceOpposingFarce Registered User regular
    Yeah it's pretty lame, but I understand it would have been an excess of resources to animate.

    But yes, supremely lame and it takes me out of it.

    The fact that ladders are still a thing also bothers me, but that's definitely caused by a deficiency in the AI.

    Better sieges, not just different was what I wanted. These are just the same sieges with more... stuff. But the other quality of life improvements are good enough.

    And at least now I can fight real settlement battles among villages and towns and stuff.

    Chokepoints!

    Remember those?

    Also I hope TW3 finally gives us better open battle terrain. I want more chokepoints and stuff. Like the maps you often see in quest battles. Give us interesting terrain.

    BloodySlothOlivaw
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I wonder how well the balance on the tech trees for the Daemon factions are going to be, since they seem to be sticking with the theme of using the gods' number. So Tzeentch has 9x9, Khorne has 8x8, Nurgle 7x7 and presumably Slaanesh will have 6x6.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    While Khorne is stated to be 8x8, I had misread Nurgle's and its "several" pods of seven (so not necessarily 7x7, though measuring the slider bar at the bottom I do think it is actually 7x7). But Tzeentch does not seem to have enough room for 9x9... I'd say 9x5 at most:
    khorne-tech-tree-1024x576.jpg

    nurgle-tech-tree-1024x576.jpg

    tzeentch-tech-tree-1024x576.jpg

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Benchmarks are one thing, but I finally decided to play a campaign to see the end turn times.

    Holy shit. Mortal Empires turns are finishing faster than Vortex turns were on my old PC.

    KarozFiatilCorsinistopgapAegeriLord_AsmodeusArdolOlivawElvenshaeGiantGeek2020
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