As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

U.S Immigration

1212224262798

Posts

  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    You do realize that when criteria for these sort of categories is defined it isn't limited to job title, right? Visas being contingent on review of professional certifications and even college/university transcripts is totally a thing in various parts of the world.

    Also, an employer isn't going to sponsor the green card if they doubt the validity of their title.

    Thanks, Butters - I'm sure we've all had an epiphany now you've pointed that out.

    Contigency on professional qualifications / employee sponsorship is rather different from "every foreign engineer who wants to live in the US should be given a plane ticket and green cards for them and their immediate family", wouldn't you say?

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Isn't part of the problem with H1B visa stuff that companies are allowed to pay those people less than market wages?

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Sometimes I sell my stuff on Ebay
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Isn't part of the problem with H1B visa stuff that companies are allowed to pay those people less than market wages?

    Kinda, yeah.

    And it does a rather nice job of locking the employee to the company, with their wages and immigration status dependent on their employers.

    A situation fairly ripe for all sorts of abuse.

    Quick edit: I think there may also be a problem with wealthy tech firms hoovering up all the available H1B visas (they are limited in number), making things harder for other fields. I don't think that limitation applies to US higher ed, though.

    Special K on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Special K wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    You do realize that when criteria for these sort of categories is defined it isn't limited to job title, right? Visas being contingent on review of professional certifications and even college/university transcripts is totally a thing in various parts of the world.

    Also, an employer isn't going to sponsor the green card if they doubt the validity of their title.

    Thanks, Butters - I'm sure we've all had an epiphany now you've pointed that out.

    Contigency on professional qualifications / employee sponsorship is rather different from "every foreign engineer who wants to live in the US should be given a plane ticket and green cards for them and their immediate family", wouldn't you say?

    Let us dial back the snark a few ticks.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    That means the current merit based immigration system is intrinsically wage deflationary, regardless of the career category or level of skill.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Sometimes I sell my stuff on Ebay
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Doodmann wrote: »
    That means the current merit based immigration system is intrinsically wage deflationary, regardless of the career category or level of skill.

    With the exception of scenarios where the skill is geographically linked somehow, I'm pretty sure this just applies in general for the US. Is there any non-hyper-specialized job where there's an absolute limit to the number of people in the US who can do it that isn't just because nobody wants to pay more?

    Incenjucar on
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    It’s very funny how forum engineers have just came back against opening the doors to engineers because they will take our jobs and lower our wages.

    Just a bit I just noticed.

    Not really, no.

    But you've not explained your reasoning for carte blanche / vert for doctors and engineers specifically.
    Because I want their expertise in this country, inventing and designing things and curing people.

    I also feel the same about scientists, green energy specialists, programmers and robotics experts.

    We’ll take the best and brightest of the world.

  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    That means the current merit based immigration system is intrinsically wage deflationary, regardless of the career category or level of skill.

    I think this might be correct to a greater or lesser extent (I'm not an economist!), but there may be counterintuitive outcomes; those most affected "domestically" (i.e., the US-based workers) might actually be towards the high end of their field?

    By this I mean: if the H1B system is abused by tech firms to hire foreign labor at significantly below the domestic market rate, then the effects will be concentrated in the big firms that typically pay well. There just may not be enough H1B visas floating around to significantly affect the market outside of the high-end, so it's only really worth jumping through the hoops for an H1B hire because the wage disparity is so pronounced

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    zepherin wrote: »
    Special K wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    It’s very funny how forum engineers have just came back against opening the doors to engineers because they will take our jobs and lower our wages.

    Just a bit I just noticed.

    Not really, no.

    But you've not explained your reasoning for carte blanche / vert for doctors and engineers specifically.
    Because I want their expertise in this country, inventing and designing things and curing people.

    I also feel the same about scientists, green energy specialists, programmers and robotics experts.

    We’ll take the best and brightest of the world.

    The best and brightest in the world already have the mobility to live where they want.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Because I want their expertise in this country, inventing and designing things and curing people.

    I also feel the same about scientists, green energy specialists, programmers and robotics experts.

    We’ll take the best and brightest of the world.

    Best and brightest != "all".

    That's the thing that confused me; what was so special about doctors and engineers that allowed all of them them an immediate green card? There's already a fairly quick and efficient path to a green card for the "best and brightest" from all sorts of fields, from the arts to STEM to business. It even covers their immediate families as well!

    The US immigration system has serious problems, but I'm not sure they really manifest for the specific subset of people you have in mind here.

    The diversity lottery though? That's an amazing concept, and I'm not sure that any other nation that does this!

  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    The diversity lottery is there only to boost your chances if your in the "default" visa application group, and it's INCREDIBLY limited. Something like 140k a year total, and then spread out regionally. I think last month there was 7 for all of North and Central America alotted, vs 12000 for Europe. I don't mean to imply it's specifically racist, Africa was like 2x Europe, but if your location already represents high immigration to the states, the diversity lottery already doesn't help you.

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    The diversity lottery is there only to boost your chances if your in the "default" visa application group, and it's INCREDIBLY limited. Something like 140k a year total, and then spread out regionally. I think last month there was 7 for all of North and Central America alotted, vs 12000 for Europe. I don't mean to imply it's specifically racist, Africa was like 2x Europe, but if your location already represents high immigration to the states, the diversity lottery already doesn't help you.
    55,000 out of 12 million applicants, and it really isn't so much racist as if a country already has a lot of people who came to the US they are no longer eligible.

    55,000 out of 12 million is quite small. I think an extra 12 million people coming over a year, is too many. I'm not sure what the right amount is.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    My easy rule of thumb for minimum immigration numbers is enough to keep your population steady, which otherwise tends to drop in the richest nations, and you see growing problems in places like Taiwan and Japan as a result. It's easy because anti-immigration forces usually shoot for far below that level.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    if your location already represents high immigration to the states, the diversity lottery already doesn't help you.

    It's not supposed to, by its very nature!

    It is, however, an explicit recognition that the USA believes that not just immigration itself but also but diversity of immigrants is good - and so I think it's an amazing concept even if it's limited to "only" about 50k per year. And the requirements are pretty broad, it's not just another avenue for "elite" immigration.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    if your location already represents high immigration to the states, the diversity lottery already doesn't help you.

    It's not supposed to, by its very nature!

    It is, however, an explicit recognition that the USA believes that not just immigration itself but also but diversity of immigrants is good - and so I think it's an amazing concept even if it's limited to "only" about 50k per year. And the requirements are pretty broad, it's not just another avenue for "elite" immigration.

    I feel like this is looking at the sole exception to a broadly racist system and then arguing because of it that everyone’s hearts are in the right place.

    There’s perhaps the argument that the diversity lottery could be used as a tool to produce equity, but by and large it doesn’t seem to result in that, given the vast negative in equity produced by the rest of the system. A bucket trying to empty out a dam.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    I feel like this is looking at the sole exception to a broadly racist system and then arguing because of it that everyone’s hearts are in the right place.

    Nah, it's just highlighting what I think is a really neat concept enshrined in the US immigration system (for all its other faults).

    I think it's a bit uncharitable to extrapolate "Diversity lottery! Therefore everyone is fundamentally decent!" from what I posted - which was that the existence of such a program explicitly states that the USA as a nation values diversity of immigrants as a basic matter of policy, even if large chunks of the population flat out dislike immigration in general.

    I think it's a cool concept, and I'm happy to stand by that opinion regardless of the myriad other other problems in the US immigration system.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Special K wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    I feel like this is looking at the sole exception to a broadly racist system and then arguing because of it that everyone’s hearts are in the right place.

    Nah, it's just highlighting what I think is a really neat concept enshrined in the US immigration system (for all its other faults).

    I think it's a bit uncharitable to extrapolate "Diversity lottery! Therefore everyone is fundamentally decent!" from what I posted - which was that the existence of such a program explicitly states that the USA as a nation values diversity of immigrants as a basic matter of policy, even if large chunks of the population flat out dislike immigration in general.

    I think it's a cool concept, and I'm happy to stand by that opinion regardless of the myriad other other problems in the US immigration system.

    But what I’m saying is, the thing you said was that the diversity lottery is a testament to the bolded:
    Special K wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    if your location already represents high immigration to the states, the diversity lottery already doesn't help you.

    It's not supposed to, by its very nature!

    It is, however, an explicit recognition that the USA believes that not just immigration itself but also but diversity of immigrants is good - and so I think it's an amazing concept even if it's limited to "only" about 50k per year. And the requirements are pretty broad, it's not just another avenue for "elite" immigration.

    But the entire rest of our system runs hard against that. Hence a bucket trying to drain a dam, it can’t ultimately represent the idea that America believes in immigration and especially diverse immigration, because the rest of the system is such an absolute material counter to allowing that diversity to manifest. Our diversity lottery is practically a misdirection away from the horrors wrought the rest of our racist system and how it functions to preserve a white majority from being outpaced via extra-territorial sources of population growth

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    But the entire rest of our system runs hard against that.

    Not all of it, though. The US immigration system works pretty well and is quite race/religion/nationality agnostic if you're fortunate enough to be in one of a few specific groups; I'm sure we all recognize the problem that people in those groups don't really need much help in the first place, though.

    This is why I think it's tricky to talk about the US immigration system in very general terms. There really does seem to be entirely separate systems at work here, and the universal dividing line does not seem to be race.
    Hence a bucket trying to drain a dam, it can’t ultimately represent the idea that America believes in immigration and especially diverse immigration, because the rest of the system is such an absolute material counter to allowing that diversity to manifest. Our diversity lottery is practically a misdirection away from the horrors wrought the rest of our racist system and how it functions to preserve a white majority from being outpaced via extra-territorial sources of population growth

    I don't think the diversity lottery somehow makes the entire system benevolent, but its very existence is interesting to me. The presence of a fig leaf is itself a statement of what you would like to believe.

    At the end of the day, that lottery does not need to exist. But it does exist, and no other countries come to mind with an equivalent initiative.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Special K wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    But the entire rest of our system runs hard against that.

    Not all of it, though. The US immigration system works pretty well and is quite race/religion/nationality agnostic if you're fortunate enough to be in one of a few specific groups; I'm sure we all recognize the problem that people in those groups don't really need much help in the first place, though.

    This is why I think it's tricky to talk about the US immigration system in very general terms. There really does seem to be entirely separate systems at work here, and the universal dividing line does not seem to be race.
    Hence a bucket trying to drain a dam, it can’t ultimately represent the idea that America believes in immigration and especially diverse immigration, because the rest of the system is such an absolute material counter to allowing that diversity to manifest. Our diversity lottery is practically a misdirection away from the horrors wrought the rest of our racist system and how it functions to preserve a white majority from being outpaced via extra-territorial sources of population growth

    I don't think the diversity lottery somehow makes the entire system benevolent, but its very existence is interesting to me. The presence of a fig leaf is itself a statement of what you would like to believe.

    At the end of the day, that lottery does not need to exist. But it does exist, and no other countries come to mind with an equivalent initiative.

    no one uses the fig leaf metaphor to mean this. In fact it is generally the exact opposite

    EDIT: my phone apparently more readily recognizes gifs than figs

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    That means the current merit based immigration system is intrinsically wage deflationary, regardless of the career category or level of skill.

    So I have been bouncing this around in my head, and I don't it has a huge effect even though I think if we let everyone who was a certain profession in the country would. My logic is that if you get general population growth then you will get an equivalent boon in economic activity such that over a long enough term it would balance out. A large number of people in one town could overwhelm it of course, but that is a self correcting problem for the most part. If we suddenly decided any and every doctor could come in we would have a disproportionate increase in doctors. So the economic impact in terms of generating activity wouldn't go up as much as you would want to keep the profession at the wages it was at before (assuming we are happy with those wages which is a separate discussion).

    Or my logic is horribly flawed on some fundamental way I am not seeing which happens. This leads me to think we want to have more general immigration since that cannot be as easily weaponized by large corporations for their own benefit. I do think H1b visa's do a lot more harm than good in their current implementation because of this as well. Perceived labor deficiencies are a tool every country I have looked at immigrating to uses though, so I don't think it will go anywhere quickly. Still a good fight to fight to have more open borders though.

  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    But the entire rest of our system runs hard against that.

    Not all of it, though. The US immigration system works pretty well and is quite race/religion/nationality agnostic if you're fortunate enough to be in one of a few specific groups; I'm sure we all recognize the problem that people in those groups don't really need much help in the first place, though.

    This is why I think it's tricky to talk about the US immigration system in very general terms. There really does seem to be entirely separate systems at work here, and the universal dividing line does not seem to be race.

    I.... what? You set yourself up and then immediately tear yourself down. From pretty much top to bottom the US immigration system is pretty much set to favor the folks with better education and money. Currently, it does this less explicitly. The fees alone rule out huge swaths of populations without massive savings. Thats assuming you can then navigate the multi year, SEVERELY ARBITRARY process. Hell, there was one part last time I did it with folks that asks for a number of documents from the country you are applying from, including some criminal reference type stuff. However, they only tell you in general terms what you need. From the point it was sent in, at that time, it was about 3 months before they would respond to you. In one case, we had indeed gotten the wrong form (even the foreign government thought it was the right one), so we had to take a stab with another. Plus another 3 months. For normal visas, I think the fastest I've seen that process turn around is about a year, and then... you are eliglble for a visa, and god forbid you aren't in a class with preference (family/etc, which I'm ok with), or a country with a lot of applicants. Per the visa bulletin, a lot of countries are only now becoming eligible to get their greencards (if approved) from people who became eligible in 2013.

    Bearing in mind, none of this is "official" green card...ness until after you get through the border, where the CBP officer can reject you on ANY grounds.

    And they even managed to make parts of this harder and more capricous under Trump.
    At the end of the day, that lottery does not need to exist. But it does exist, and no other countries come to mind with an equivalent initiative.

    The problem I have with it, aside from the odd case of Africa, is it pretty much explicitly is trying to add diversity out of generally wealthier regions. Like, I get that more diversity is good, but do we REALLY need more Europeans in the US to be more diverse? It's definitely a brighter part of a pretty dark system, but... that's not saying much.

  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    I.... what? You set yourself up and then immediately tear yourself down.

    I don't think I did. Everything you raise is something I've at least alluded to.

    I was responding to the notion that the entire US immigration system is racist; I don't think it is, I think the system is fairly agnostic to race/religion/nationality provided you're one of the "favoured" groups (e.g. scientists). That's why I think trying to discuss US immigration as one monolithic system is a problem.

    For example:
    For normal visas, I think the fastest I've seen that process turn around is about a year, and then... you are eliglble for a visa, and god forbid you aren't in a class with preference (family/etc, which I'm ok with), or a country with a lot of applicants. Per the visa bulletin, a lot of countries are only now becoming eligible to get their greencards (if approved) from people who became eligible in 2013.

    I've personally seen the entire green card process completed in way under a year. I've seen rapid processing and acceptance of green card applications including people from China and India - who are typically the nations with the massive years-long backlog until eligibility,

    That's why I think there's effectively multiple immigration systems in the USA.
    It's definitely a brighter part of a pretty dark system, but... that's not saying much.

    The US immigration system definitely has problems, I'm not claiming otherwise (and nor would I).

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The US immigration system is inarguably founded in racism, though. You can agree with that, yeah?

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    It factually was conceived as a response to an influx of Chinese immigrants. If anyone says "US immigration wasn't founded with racist intent" they may as well try to deny the list of who was president throughout our history, or the color the sky.

  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    I.... what? You set yourself up and then immediately tear yourself down.

    I don't think I did. Everything you raise is something I've at least alluded to.

    I was responding to the notion that the entire US immigration system is racist; I don't think it is, I think the system is fairly agnostic to race/religion/nationality provided you're one of the "favoured" groups (e.g. scientists). That's why I think trying to discuss US immigration as one monolithic system is a problem.

    For example:
    For normal visas, I think the fastest I've seen that process turn around is about a year, and then... you are eliglble for a visa, and god forbid you aren't in a class with preference (family/etc, which I'm ok with), or a country with a lot of applicants. Per the visa bulletin, a lot of countries are only now becoming eligible to get their greencards (if approved) from people who became eligible in 2013.

    I've personally seen the entire green card process completed in way under a year. I've seen rapid processing and acceptance of green card applications including people from China and India - who are typically the nations with the massive years-long backlog until eligibility,

    That's why I think there's effectively multiple immigration systems in the USA.
    It's definitely a brighter part of a pretty dark system, but... that's not saying much.

    The US immigration system definitely has problems, I'm not claiming otherwise (and nor would I).

    I've been debating how to respond to this for some time. There are many visas that will process much faster than your "standard" classes, but they tend to be fairly specialized and involve ... yet again.. money. Either someone (usually a corporation) spending it, or the expectation that one way or another you are going to make a non-normal addition to the economy or stature of the US. (See: Genius visas) That's really besides the point.

    Saying "I think the system is fairly agnostic" as long as your in a special group is the entire freaking point. (Please note, my condemnation is aimed at the US immigration process, not you). At BEST it implies people in "favored" groups have better status than "regular" people. The problem is that there are sooooo many parts here that individually, look "ok", but that's literally just cherry picking to feel better about it. It's, as someone mentioned above, at BEST fig leafs to appease people. "Oh see, it's not THAT racist".

    People, even in this thread, have said we should still have some kind of limitation, but no one can come up with criteria, just this version of the system is bad. So why do we keep excusing it? Why do we keep letting the perfect me the enemy of the good? While we sit around figuring out what's the least amount of racism in the system to be palateable to racists, people, and especially kids, are suffering.

    You really want to slow down immigration, none of these tactics that have been tried will really do it. Help work on the fundamental problems in these countries. Many of which WE FUCKING CREATED.

  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    Construction of Trump’s border wall may continue under Biden, administration admits
    “The president has communicated quite clearly his decision that the emergency that triggered the devotion of DOD funds to the construction of the border wall is ended. But that leaves room to make decisions as the administration, as part of the administration, in particular areas of the wall that need renovation, particular projects that need to be finished."

    Those plans include filling "gaps," installing "gates" and adding technology to parts of the wall that have been finished but have not been outfitted.

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    On reading the article fully-- fine, yes, Congressionally appointed money should be spent as Congress demands

    but where rhe fuck that revocation request at

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    On reading the article fully-- fine, yes, Congressionally appointed money should be spent as Congress demands

    but where rhe fuck that revocation request at
    Congress has to do it. They already paid for it, the contract is in place, the contractor likely already purchased and has the materials on site. So if they put in a stop work or terminate the contract for convenience. They still have to pay for the materials, and they don’t get them installed. And the money for the install doesn’t get to be reused for other stuff it goes back to treasury.

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    That was more a rhetorical question than anything else. Cause this shit really needs to not be happening

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    On reading the article fully-- fine, yes, Congressionally appointed money should be spent as Congress demands

    but where rhe fuck that revocation request at
    Congress has to do it. They already paid for it, the contract is in place, the contractor likely already purchased and has the materials on site. So if they put in a stop work or terminate the contract for convenience. They still have to pay for the materials, and they don’t get them installed. And the money for the install doesn’t get to be reused for other stuff it goes back to treasury.

    We already paid for this symbol of oppression and xenophobia, stopping the build now would just be wasting money. If nothing else do something about siccing the EPA or Interior on them for environmental studies or something about Native archaeological sites or some shit.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    On reading the article fully-- fine, yes, Congressionally appointed money should be spent as Congress demands

    but where rhe fuck that revocation request at
    Congress has to do it. They already paid for it, the contract is in place, the contractor likely already purchased and has the materials on site. So if they put in a stop work or terminate the contract for convenience. They still have to pay for the materials, and they don’t get them installed. And the money for the install doesn’t get to be reused for other stuff it goes back to treasury.

    We already paid for this symbol of oppression and xenophobia, stopping the build now would just be wasting money. If nothing else do something about siccing the EPA or Interior on them for environmental studies or something about Native archaeological sites or some shit.
    They've already been given exemptions as part of the wall bill. Congress has already given them everything need, and removed all of the obstacles that a president could use. It's congress who would have to stop it.

    And yes wasting money is part of it, but the point is that the money doesn't get to be used for something more useful. It get's used for filling gaps modernizing and repairs, or disappears. The govt contractor who is a fucking shiester. I want him to do the contract, and then I want GAO to fucking ruin them for shotty work, I want the government to claw back every penny of that fucked up installation they did. If we send them a termination for convenience, they'll get to walk away from it all, and get paid for work they didn't do, and get out of any responsibility for work they did that was shit.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Im pretty fucking skeptical there is nothing they could do to stop this.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    They could build lots of walls, and then make it into an immigrant processing center to better get immigrants placed out of cages and out and functional within required time frames. "See GOP, we didn't "Build a Wall", we built LOTS of walls.

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Im pretty fucking skeptical there is nothing they could do to stop this.

    Well yeah, everything about how our government functions requires good faith intent.

    steam_sig.png
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    I came here to post a video that tackles this topic VERY directly and was met with that wall news. I'm... too mad.

    Okay snark comedy thing does a deep dive on US Immigration Policy, noting how Democrats and Republicans have both done and continue to do horrible shit like Operation Gatekeeper. It's 19 minutes of your time and this actually has the least amount of side-tracking gimmick of Some More News that I've seen of any episode (and the couple instances of side gimmick still just make the argument concisely).

    Edit - An important note about the video below is that things stated in it have on-screen citations to articles and their publications.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNd21QNFlbM

    Henroid on
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Im pretty fucking skeptical there is nothing they could do to stop this.
    Congress can absolutely stop this. But it’s only congress that can stop this. It isn’t something the president can unilaterally scuttle.

  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    why did biden say during the campaign that he would stop building, if that isn't something the president can do
    "There will not be another foot of wall constructed on my administration, No. 1," he told NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro during an interview with journalists from the National Association of Black Journalists and National Association of Hispanic Journalists.

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    why did biden say during the campaign that he would stop building, if that isn't something the president can do
    "There will not be another foot of wall constructed on my administration, No. 1," he told NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro during an interview with journalists from the National Association of Black Journalists and National Association of Hispanic Journalists.

    Because that's the majority of literally everything that gets said in a presidential campaign? I'm not weighing in on what Biden can or cannot do in this situation. I'm not sure. But I can tell you that 100% of presidential campaigns I've been alive for are mostly a lot of talk about things that is actually something Congress does.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    why did biden say during the campaign that he would stop building, if that isn't something the president can do
    "There will not be another foot of wall constructed on my administration, No. 1," he told NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro during an interview with journalists from the National Association of Black Journalists and National Association of Hispanic Journalists.

    Because that's the majority of literally everything that gets said in a presidential campaign? I'm not weighing in on what Biden can or cannot do in this situation. I'm not sure. But I can tell you that 100% of presidential campaigns I've been alive for are mostly a lot of talk about things that is actually something Congress does.

    I recall being told very seriously that Presidents fullfill most of their promises every time Biden promised the moon.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    shryke wrote: »
    why did biden say during the campaign that he would stop building, if that isn't something the president can do
    "There will not be another foot of wall constructed on my administration, No. 1," he told NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro during an interview with journalists from the National Association of Black Journalists and National Association of Hispanic Journalists.

    Because that's the majority of literally everything that gets said in a presidential campaign? I'm not weighing in on what Biden can or cannot do in this situation. I'm not sure. But I can tell you that 100% of presidential campaigns I've been alive for are mostly a lot of talk about things that is actually something Congress does.

    i mean that's a persuasive argument against electoralism in general i guess, but it still seems to me like a president directly breaking promises on extremely important things is something that's worth calling out when it happens

    Typhoid Manny on
    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
Sign In or Register to comment.