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1 Billions Lions vs 1 of Every Pokemon

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    crwthcrwth THAT'S IT Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    crwth wrote: »
    crwth wrote: »
    *me, extremely wise and learned* actually no one would win between goku and superman because they’re both fictional 😏

    And yet
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    hm?

    Are Pokémon more or less fictional than Goku or Superman

    i’m not sure i’m understanding the question here

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    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    1 billion lions is enough mass to form a black hole, and nothing wins against a black hole

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    A billion is a very big number.

    I need some Pokemon information is what I need. How many Pokemon there are, for one.

    What moves they can learn, for another.

    Then we need to determine what Type a lion is and how much HP they have, along with other stats.

    Then we figure out which moves each Pokemon can do, and figure out, for each different Pokemon, which moves they can take to eliminate the maximum number of lions. Because it isn't just about raw damage but how many times they can perform that move.

    How many lions could, in a best-case scenario, be eliminated before all the Pokemon are reduced to having to Struggle?

    There is also a consideration of defense, that these lions are going to be attacking while the Pokemon are also attacking, and so we can't assume every Pokemon can get every attack off.

    But if we cannot find that the number of lions can even be reduced to a manageable number before the Pokemon are forced to injure themselves Struggling against their fors, then the lions will win through simple attrition.

    Steelix is a one ton 30 foot snake made of steel. Simple attrition doesn't enter in to it when some basic pokemon can defeat multiple lions at once by moving forward at a normal pace. Think of it like this. Could an elephant trample a lion? Sure! But there are a billion lions. But the elephant is invincible so it doesn't matter.

    Arguing one lion cannot kill an elephant, therefore a billion lions cannot kill an elephant is like saying that if I drop a piece of paper on you it will not harm you, therefore if I drop the Library of Congress on you it will not harm you.
    I don't think that's a fit analogy. The lion bites thing is more like how dropping one piece of paper on you won't harm you, so dropping a billion pieces of paper one at a time won't harm you either. If the lion bites worked the way going from piece of paper -> the entire library of congress did, they'd be somehow pooling all of their bite strength into one super bite.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I feel like lions also win by being real

    Lions are real, but a billion lions isn't real, there are only a few thousand lions in the world. So both sides of this fight are imaginary really.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I can't believe I let myself be drawn into this debate

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    A billion is a very big number.

    I need some Pokemon information is what I need. How many Pokemon there are, for one.

    What moves they can learn, for another.

    Then we need to determine what Type a lion is and how much HP they have, along with other stats.

    Then we figure out which moves each Pokemon can do, and figure out, for each different Pokemon, which moves they can take to eliminate the maximum number of lions. Because it isn't just about raw damage but how many times they can perform that move.

    How many lions could, in a best-case scenario, be eliminated before all the Pokemon are reduced to having to Struggle?

    There is also a consideration of defense, that these lions are going to be attacking while the Pokemon are also attacking, and so we can't assume every Pokemon can get every attack off.

    But if we cannot find that the number of lions can even be reduced to a manageable number before the Pokemon are forced to injure themselves Struggling against their fors, then the lions will win through simple attrition.

    Steelix is a one ton 30 foot snake made of steel. Simple attrition doesn't enter in to it when some basic pokemon can defeat multiple lions at once by moving forward at a normal pace. Think of it like this. Could an elephant trample a lion? Sure! But there are a billion lions. But the elephant is invincible so it doesn't matter.

    Arguing one lion cannot kill an elephant, therefore a billion lions cannot kill an elephant is like saying that if I drop a piece of paper on you it will not harm you, therefore if I drop the Library of Congress on you it will not harm you.

    Am I functionally invincible? Because if I was, it wouldn't harm me!

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    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    Voltron was only 5 lions, so a billion lions is at least a couple million Voltrons. Or whatever voltrons combine into.

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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    crwth wrote: »
    *me, extremely wise and learned* actually no one would win between goku and superman because they’re both fictional 😏

    If Goku and Superman fought, the winner would be Shueisha because they would be able to take advantage of AT&T/Warner/WB/DC’s marketing machine to far extend the reach of our beloved fight lovin bad father. Meanwhile the boost DC gets would be much smaller, as Superman has already fully permeated pop culture around the globe.

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    NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    The argument that Pokemon would win because how would the lions deal with Steel or Flying Pokemon handwaves away the part where regular-ass Pokemon don't have an issue on this front. Just because they're Steel type doesn't mean they aren't hurt by a scratch; similarly, Flying Pokemon don't have immunity to physical attacks. Feels pretty clear that a billion lions could just overwhelm these Pokemon.

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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    1 billion lions is enough mass to form a black hole, and nothing wins against a black hole

    1 billion lions is only like 200 billion kg, the mass of the sun is around 2 * 10^30

    sorry, no lion black holes

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    -Tal wrote: »
    a billion is so many lions. the pokemon would run out of pp and struggle themselves to death if nothing else.

    we've already addressed this

    "hit everyone" moves like Surf and Earthquake have no apparent upper limit to how many targets they can hit simultaneously, so they can hit every lion at the same time. Likewise Sandstorm and Hail will damage every single one of the lions (as well as most of the pokemon) by 6.25% of their max health every turn. if the pokemon apply even a modicum of strategy then they win no question

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    asofyeun wrote: »
    1 billion lions is enough mass to form a black hole, and nothing wins against a black hole

    1 billion lions is only like 200 billion kg, the mass of the sun is around 2 * 10^30

    sorry, no lion black holes
    Any amount of mass can be a black hole if it's dense enough.

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    Xaquin wrote: »
    A 10 year old can catch every Pokémon god

    I don't think I could take on even one lion

    1 billion lions. No question.

    lions can't operate pokeballs

    Irrelevant. If the most powerful Pokémon can't put up a fight against a dinky plastic shell a kid picked up in their corner shop no way it could face up against even a single lion.

    it is generally implied that godlike pokemon are not truly beaten down and captured but rather allow themselves to be caught because they recognize the trainer as worthy of borrowing a portion of their strength

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Nirya wrote: »
    The argument that Pokemon would win because how would the lions deal with Steel or Flying Pokemon handwaves away the part where regular-ass Pokemon don't have an issue on this front. Just because they're Steel type doesn't mean they aren't hurt by a scratch; similarly, Flying Pokemon don't have immunity to physical attacks. Feels pretty clear that a billion lions could just overwhelm these Pokemon.

    regular-ass lions aren't regular-ass pokemons though

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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    cB557 wrote: »
    asofyeun wrote: »
    1 billion lions is enough mass to form a black hole, and nothing wins against a black hole

    1 billion lions is only like 200 billion kg, the mass of the sun is around 2 * 10^30

    sorry, no lion black holes
    Any amount of mass can be a black hole if it's dense enough.

    lions have a density about equal to water though

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    asofyeun wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    asofyeun wrote: »
    1 billion lions is enough mass to form a black hole, and nothing wins against a black hole

    1 billion lions is only like 200 billion kg, the mass of the sun is around 2 * 10^30

    sorry, no lion black holes
    Any amount of mass can be a black hole if it's dense enough.

    lions have a density about equal to water though

    I'm just saying that you could make lions into a black hole, I'm not saying they'd survive the process.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Gardevoir can create a black hole with it's mind

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Pokemon
    I can't believe I let myself be drawn into this debate

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    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    eddizhereeddizhere Scrubber Than A Sponge Scrubtown, USARegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    So if we’re saying that lions have bite as a dark type move to deal with ghost types, then that would imply that they’d operate on pp too. Otherwise bites and claws would have to just be normal attacks

    And while Pokémon have a mechanic to recover from exhaustion (berries), lions just have to sleep. And lions sleep A LOT. Several hundred million of these lions are just gonna be sleeping and/or banging while this fight is happening.

    Also this isn’t really adding to my statement but I want you imagine hitmonchan squaring up on a lion and just absolutely obliterating its jaw

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    I really think the issue here is the terms of the fight.

    Are we talking standard duel format, ten paces and turn? Or do those Pokemon with specific abilities that would give them terrain advantage get to start in their preferred terrain (i.e. can flying Pokemon start in mid air, or do they have to start from the ground)?

    If a bird, even an incredibly big bird, has to take off after the lions have already spotted it from nearby, I'm not sure it can get into the air fast enough to not have a couple hundred pounds of cat dragging it back down.

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    TayaTaya Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    If every Pokemon needs to be defeated in order for lions to win, then Rayquaza or Giratina or the ultra beasts just need to hang out in the atmosphere or in negaspace or wherever and wait for the lions to die.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I really think the issue here is the terms of the fight.

    Are we talking standard duel format, ten paces and turn? Or do those Pokemon with specific abilities that would give them terrain advantage get to start in their preferred terrain (i.e. can flying Pokemon start in mid air, or do they have to start from the ground)?

    If a bird, even an incredibly big bird, has to take off after the lions have already spotted it from nearby, I'm not sure it can get into the air fast enough to not have a couple hundred pounds of cat dragging it back down.

    Lions can move 20 metres per second from a standing start. Which is just a lion fact I know that is relevant here.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Dragonite can fly around the world in sixteen hours

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    1 Billion Lions
    the total hp of all the lions is AT LEAST 1 billion, which is orders of magnitude higher than the total hp of one of each pokemon species

    -Tal on
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Dragonite can fly around the world in sixteen hours

    There's no way that the Pokeworld is as big as our world

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Dragonite can fly around the world in sixteen hours

    There's no way that the Pokeworld is as big as our world

    Even then it is explicitly able to fly faster than the speed of sound

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    -Tal wrote: »
    the total hp of all the lions is AT LEAST 1 billion, which is orders of magnitude higher than the total hp of one of each pokemon species

    yeah but 6.25% of it's getting chipped off every turn regardless

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited March 2021
    1 Billion Lions
    Do the ghosts of the lions who are killed get to participate in this?

    We're including Pokemon ghosts, so it only seems fair

    Straightzi on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Dragonite can fly around the world in sixteen hours

    There's no way that the Pokeworld is as big as our world

    Even then it is explicitly able to fly faster than the speed of sound

    It can't fly faster than the speed of sound and also attack.

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Do the ghosts of the lions who are killed get to participate in this?

    We're including Pokemon ghosts, so it only seems fair

    there is strong evidence that ghost pokemon are not true ghosts but rather just animals that exhibit properties that are generally associated with ghosts

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    i started off thinking that the lions had at the very least a fair shot but I'm all the way on team pokemon now

    in fact, you don't even need one of every pokemon

    a single Starmie that knows surf could defeat one billion lions

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Kingdra destroys small ships by yawning, and when it wakes up it creates whirlpools and tornadoes.

    Just by existing it could obliterate essentially any number of lions.

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    ChallChall Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Another consideration is that having one of each pokemon in Earth would mean that none of us survive.

    Bulbapedia: "According to Pokédex, the hottest Pokémon are Magcargo and Camerupt, both can reach 18,000°F (10,000°C)."

    Google: The sun's temperature is about 9,941°F

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited March 2021
    Pokemon
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kingdra destroys small ships by yawning, and when it wakes up it creates whirlpools and tornadoes.

    Just by existing it could obliterate essentially any number of lions.

    i stand by my opinion that you cannot bring the pokedex into this because too many of the entries are obviously wrong, not just absurd but self-evidently incorrect

    if for instance magcargo was as hot as the pokedex says it is it would instantly melt through the earth. it doesn't, therefore the pokedex is wrong

    Speed Racer on
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    ChallChall Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kingdra destroys small ships by yawning, and when it wakes up it creates whirlpools and tornadoes.

    Just by existing it could obliterate essentially any number of lions.

    i stand by my opinion that you cannot bring the pokedex into this because too many of the entries are obviously wrong, not just absurd but self-evidently incorrect

    if for instance magcargo was as hot as the pokedex says it is it would instantly melt through the earth. it doesn't, therefore the pokedex is wrong

    Obviously Poke-Earth has different properties than ours. Otherwise we would have to consider that these 10 year olds are somehow incorrect, and that would be crazy.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    wild Pokémon use PP yes

    i also use pp in the wild

    am i then a pokerman

    Well I mean, your avatar is a Pokemon, so I have no evidence that you are not a Pokemon

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    1 Billion Lions
    If a Pokemon instantly melted through the Earth it would presumably die shortly after due to the after effects of what it did

    I think that's a draw at best

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pokemon
    Chall wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kingdra destroys small ships by yawning, and when it wakes up it creates whirlpools and tornadoes.

    Just by existing it could obliterate essentially any number of lions.

    i stand by my opinion that you cannot bring the pokedex into this because too many of the entries are obviously wrong, not just absurd but self-evidently incorrect

    if for instance magcargo was as hot as the pokedex says it is it would instantly melt through the earth. it doesn't, therefore the pokedex is wrong

    Obviously Poke-Earth has different properties than ours. Otherwise we would have to consider that these 10 year olds are somehow incorrect, and that would be crazy.

    if that's the case then every pokemon is capable of surviving contact with something twice as hot as the sun, many of them without even sustaining serious injuries

    forget the steel types, the lions are gonna struggle to even kill a rattata

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    ChallChall Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    Pokemon
    Straightzi wrote: »
    If a Pokemon instantly melted through the Earth it would presumably die shortly after due to the after effects of what it did

    I think that's a draw at best

    Q: If a pokemon melted through the Earth and no one was around to hear it, would it still make a sound?

    A:
    No, because the Earth would be destroyed and there's no sound in space

    Chall on
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Pokemon
    I mean yeah pokemon are fucked up

    They can travel through time, and grant wishes like a goddamn genie

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