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The US Congress

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    "Rich man isnt going to suffer consequences" might be a guess but its a reliable one.

    A guess which isn't particularly good; Epstien, Ghislane and stone were all loaded and all ate shit with only Stone getting off because Trump willed it. If the SDNY goes after trump there isn't going to be anyone to bail his saggy orange ass out.

    So again: I'm not convinced that trump is going to skate away on this and neither is he given how he abandoned his new york heritage to try and evade the state attorneys.

    I would consider these to be exceptions to the rule. I think the unreasonable assumption to take is that rich and powerful will feel consequences automagically. They wont without a lot of sustained will and effort.

    Epstein suffered, but how many other wealthy members that visited his island are currently roaming consequence free? That's the current norm.

    Epstein was a working-class social climber vía the means of providing sinful pleasure to rich perverts. They were happy to abandon him to save their skins.

    SmrtnikCantidooverride367
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I gather some of the GOP's bulwark on obstructing everything is at risk of breaking. With house republicans already retreating on the earmark front, there appears to be grumblings within Senate GOP ranks about how they might as well play ball on something because if the democrats get around them, well any money that was available for earmarks will go to democratic states and districts, while the GOP will have fuck all to show for it.

    This actually has some interesting implications in regards to the filibuster. I'll have to dig up the article, but last count was like 5-6 republicans being willing to tell the no earmark crowd to get fucked. That's still 4-5 votes short on ending the filibuster, but some of the erosion on the GOP side is a result of the fact that the democrats are quite willing to use reconciliation to get around the GOP's bullshit and I don't believe that kills earmarks, just puts some limits on what earmarks can make it in.

    This might prompt Manchin and Sinema to abandon the filibuster if they see that it's impossible to get anything passed, even when a handful of republicans want to play ball. I don't think we see a bipartisan play to kill the filibuster because all elected republicans are shitty, but I suppose there is a very, very, very, very, very, very slim chance of that being on the table.

    With the voter suppression shit that has been passed in a few states. I do have to wonder if that will guarantee that we see the filibuster stuff come to a head here real soon. Sinema must realize by now that the state GOP of Arizona is trying to set things up so that they can just steal her seat and even Manchin must be realizing that the West Virginia GOP is looking to steal his seat as well. As in they are about to be in a position where if they do nothing they lose their re-election bid because the GOP will say they lost without considering the election vs killing the filibuster and having a slight risk that someone gives enough of a damn about that to successfully get them out of office on just that.

    Meeqe
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    "Rich man isnt going to suffer consequences" might be a guess but its a reliable one.

    A guess which isn't particularly good; Epstien, Ghislane and stone were all loaded and all ate shit with only Stone getting off because Trump willed it. If the SDNY goes after trump there isn't going to be anyone to bail his saggy orange ass out.

    So again: I'm not convinced that trump is going to skate away on this and neither is he given how he abandoned his new york heritage to try and evade the state attorneys.

    I would consider these to be exceptions to the rule. I think the unreasonable assumption to take is that rich and powerful will feel consequences automagically. They wont without a lot of sustained will and effort.

    Epstein suffered, but how many other wealthy members that visited his island are currently roaming consequence free? That's the current norm.

    Epstein was a working-class social climber vía the means of providing sinful pleasure to rich perverts. They were happy to abandon him to save their skins.

    And ostensibly he should have had even more leverage then trump to keep his ass out of jail due to the sheer volume of blackmail material he would have had access to on top of his wealth.

    But we're running afield given that trump isn't in the legislature and they'd have no power over a state level court case.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    In congress-related news, Ezra Klein interviewed Chunk Schumer on his podcast last week:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-chuck-schumer.html
    They talk about a bunch of stuff to do with Congress, it's a pretty good listen for getting a read on where Schumer is at imo. And on that front I'd say it's pretty good news. They even talk a bunch about his famous mental picture of a middle-class family that he gets mocked for some places but which when you hear him talk about it is not that strange.

    So the good news is that he seems pretty firm on the idea that what the Democrats need to do is pass big legislation that uses the government to make people's lives better. He actually talks about this idea a decent amount in relation to the Baileys, the imaginary family he thinks about appealing to. He thinks they are looking for something much different from the Democratic party today then they were 20 years ago. They are more concerned with whether the government will help them then whether the government is helping someone else who they think doesn't deserve it. He thinks if the Democrats want to win they need to deliver for voters with big things they can feel.

    He talks about trying to wrangle his entire caucus and it's many disparate views into one team. He also talks about the problems of passing stuff through the Senate and about being committed to putting popular bills to the floor and getting them voted on. As one expects, he is diplomatic about opinions on whether they can get republican votes and what to do about the fillibuster, but kinda reading between the lines a bit you can tell he has to deal with a lot of people, like Manchin, who think they have to at least try bipartisanship and there's not much he can do about those people because they need their votes. His plan seems to be to put popular things onto the floor and basically go "Alright, get me those 10 republican votes" and when that fails, to go back to them and say "See, this is why we need to move forward without the GOP". Maybe it'll work. It's the only play he's got and he seems willing to make it so that's the best you can expect imo.

    Also, he talked about how he wants to continue to push hard on Biden on student loan forgiveness.

    Overall I think it's generally good news. A few years ago I would have had zero faith in Schumer, but he seems to have his head on straight here. If nothing ends up getting done, it does not seem like it will be for a lack of him wanting to get important shit done.

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 7
    I’m very skeptical about the filibuster ever going away. It’s too useful for too many people. And the margin on abolishing the filibuster is gonna be so tight that a general “elect democrats” plan is not 100% useless but close it, if your goal is to abolish the filibuster. Manchin and Sinema are just the opposing senators we know of, so anyone else who wants it around doesn’t really need to talk about it right now. And there’s very little pressure on other senators to talk about it, because they can just say it’s moot, with two senators already opposing it. And when it’s election time, there’s going to be very little appetite for questioning the next Sinema about their position on the filibuster, and then you’re back to square one.

    Elki on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    There are absolutely Dems who wont support filibuster removal but are staying quiet while Manchin and Sinema are content to be public fiends.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m very skeptical about the filibuster ever going away. It’s too useful for too many people. And the margin on abolishing the filibuster is gonna be so tight that a general “elect democrats” plan is not 100% useless but close it, if your goal is to abolish the filibuster. Manchin and Sinema are just the opposing senators we know of, so anyone else who wants around doesn’t really need to talk about it right now. And there’s very little pressure on other senators to talk about it, because they can just say it’s moot, with two senators already opposing it. And when it’s election time, there’s going to be very little appetite for questioning the next Sinema about their position on the filibuster, and then you’re back to square one.

    While it's true that there might be others standing in the wings quietly supporting the filibuster, that they're not openly "it needs to stay" means that if Manchin and Sinema do get on board, I can't see any of those being "well, now I'm going to stand for what I believe in".

    I think Manchin and Sinema are fucking naive idiots, but this is clearly something they believe in. Anyone else, except maybe DiFi, isn't going to want to be the bulwark against the shitstorm, should those two finally capitulate. The "silent partners" might put pressure on Manchin and Sinema to hold the line, but if (and it's a big fucking if), those two shift, I think all those silent partners will too.

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  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    Yeah, Trump is running in 2024, and Trump backed or supporting candidates will win in 2022. It’s the trump party now, and agreeing with whatever he says is their only platform. If you want to be a hawk conservative who doesn’t back trump, maybe join the Democratic Party

    This at least has not been true so far.

    So far. But call me when the senate Ds get off their asses and nuke the filibuster to pass HR1.

    I'm not sure what needs to be done to get those last few straggling Dem Senators to take care of the filibuster. Like I'm not sure what can even be done to convince Manchin, for example. I'm not sure he even cares all that much if he loses his next election, or if he thinks nuking the filibuster would help.

    Elect more Democratic Senators.

    The issue there is that the GOP is currently undergoing heavy voter suppression efforts to try and stave off that.

    They aren't empowered to do that in every State that is a reasonable pickup chance. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina all have Democratic Governors. Meanwhile Georgia is the only pickup for the Republicans to defend against, and Stacey Abrams will be on the ballot there.

    It doesn't matter who's on the ballot in Georgia because the legislature can just overturn the election on their own say-so

    No, they actually can't.

    https://www.savannahnow.com/story/news/2021/04/07/georgia-new-election-law-republicans-overturn-results-senate-bill-202/7092460002/

    This isn't on you, moniker, but: I don't believe them.
    "Of course we'd never"/"of course they'd never" - bullshit. They've made their intent clear, now it's just a matter of zeroing in on the details and the implementation.

    Take the assurance that only up to four counties can be nullified - let me guess, how many densely-populated blue-leaning counties there are in Georgia?
    Or that it all ends up in the lap of the Sec of State, a position currently occupied by someone who wasn't willing to blatantly throw the election to Trump, even when the latter called him up to hint at exactly that; what if we're not so lucky next time?

    Four counties is Atlanta and its suburbs. It's not subtle.

    They are absolutely going to gin up reasons to appoint fascists to run Atlanta's elections and the Roberts Court will absolutely let them.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    What happened to the suggestion to make it be a talking filibuster?

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    I'm just hoping if congress keeps abusing reconciliation to do near everything and anything that people will question what the filibuster is even doing anymore.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    Can they add a clause that states with bad voting laws get no federal funds for anything until they fix it? Congress had wielded the budget against states plenty of times before.

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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular

    Tweet is some twitter random

    Lindsey Graham is a former man current invertebrate and somehow a senator of South Carolina showing us that God no longer loves us

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  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    Can they add a clause that states with bad voting laws get no federal funds for anything until they fix it? Congress had wielded the budget against states plenty of times before.

    I'm not sure that removing federal money from conservative states would function as a threat. That tends to play directly into the narrative the conservative movement feeds their voters, and may reinforce their political campaigns.

    FoolOnTheHill
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »

    Tweet is some twitter random

    Lindsey Graham is a former man current invertebrate and somehow a senator of South Carolina showing us that God no longer loves us

    Citation required that Lindsey was ever in fact a man as opposed to the political equivelant of playdo.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »

    Tweet is some twitter random

    Lindsey Graham is a former man current invertebrate and somehow a senator of South Carolina showing us that God no longer loves us

    Citation required that Lindsey was ever in fact a man as opposed to the political equivelant of playdo.

    Yeah, he's a congressional oxpecker. Maybe a remora.

    He can get quite animated (the Kavanaugh hearings), but he doesn't seem to have any principles of his own, just those of whoever he gloms on to.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »

    Tweet is some twitter random

    Lindsey Graham is a former man current invertebrate and somehow a senator of South Carolina showing us that God no longer loves us

    Citation required that Lindsey was ever in fact a man as opposed to the political equivelant of playdo.

    Yeah, he's a congressional oxpecker. Maybe a remora.

    He can get quite animated (the Kavanaugh hearings), but he doesn't seem to have any principles of his own, just those of whoever he gloms on to.

    Like, this is a man who towards the end of the 2016 primaries described the choice between trump and cruz as being between drinking poison and a bullet to the head.

    And now he's basically nob-gobbling a man who has amongst other things undermined the credibility of the united states on the world stage, failed to condemn racism every time he was called to and spent weeks undermining the most sacred responsibility of the president: the peaceful transferal of power.

    Just fuck this guy and his complete lack of integrity.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    Bloods End wrote: »

    Tweet is some twitter random

    Lindsey Graham is a former man current invertebrate and somehow a senator of South Carolina showing us that God no longer loves us

    I love that this is the same dickwad who was very much "Trump will fuck us and we will deserve it" around presidential debate time.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    That's just sad

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Graham keeps letting the mask slip and admitting he doesn't believe any of this. But it doesn't change his utter loyalty in any way.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    There are a few things that are consistent about Graham:
    1. His purpose is to restore the supremacy of the southern aristocracy
    2. His method is to be the hype man for who he views is the strongest voice in the conservative movement

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    That's just sad

    No, it's irritating. Graham isn't up for re-election for another 5 years so there is nothing to be gained for him right now by continuing to support a man who fomented a violent insurrection that would have killed much of the legislature (including possibly himself).

    It'd be infuriating for anyone else doing these things but graham's lack of integrity has been clear for decades.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    There are a few things that are consistent about Graham:
    1. His purpose is to restore the supremacy of the southern aristocracy
    2. His method is to be the hype man for who he views is the strongest voice in the conservative movement

    If graham thought the base wanted it he would go pick cotton while a black guy on a horse beside him waxed about "the problem with the honky".

    There is no underlying thesis to the man's existance beyond saying whatever the fuck he thinks the base would like to hear so him deifying trump at this point isn't surprising particularly when conservative news outlets refuse to condemn for what was a betrayal of the constitution for the sake of an orange spackled moron's ego.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    override367 was warned for this.
    Every bit of news out of congress has been filling me with doom, it really seems like Manchin and Sinema have switched parties and there is no hope for the future

    like, the Republicans have made winning 2/3 of the country impossible, the justice department doesnt seem to care, and without HR1, they WILL take the senate in 2022, and then they'll just refuse to certify any Democrat in 2024 regardless of election results

    I wonder what the point of anything is anymore, we're on an irreversible spiral towards the end
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    they *absolutely can*, they just *won't*

    If the VP says to the parliamentarian, "go fuck yourself", they need 60 votes to overrule her

    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    override367 on
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Every bit of news out of congress has been filling me with doom, it really seems like Manchin and Sinema have switched parties and there is no hope for the future

    like, the Republicans have made winning 2/3 of the country impossible, the justice department doesnt seem to care, and without HR1, they WILL take the senate in 2022, and then they'll just refuse to certify any Democrat in 2024 regardless of election results

    I wonder what the point of anything is anymore, we're on an irreversible spiral towards the end
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    they *absolutely can*, they just *won't*

    If the VP says to the parliamentarian, "go fuck yourself", they need 60 votes to overrule her

    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    IMO more that "the media and voters will savage them for it (and they all get voted out) if they do or even try", because only one party actually gets held accountable for shit anymore.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Every bit of news out of congress has been filling me with doom, it really seems like Manchin and Sinema have switched parties and there is no hope for the future

    like, the Republicans have made winning 2/3 of the country impossible, the justice department doesnt seem to care, and without HR1, they WILL take the senate in 2022, and then they'll just refuse to certify any Democrat in 2024 regardless of election results

    I wonder what the point of anything is anymore, we're on an irreversible spiral towards the end
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    they *absolutely can*, they just *won't*

    If the VP says to the parliamentarian, "go fuck yourself", they need 60 votes to overrule her

    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    That's a silly plan. If they are getting pissed off with voting for things that do qualify for reconciliation, how do you think they are gonna feel about just absolutely blatantly ignoring the rules of reconciliation? All this would do is piss off senators like Manchin and lose you the vote. And probably poison the well on future attempts to reform the Senate.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Every bit of news out of congress has been filling me with doom, it really seems like Manchin and Sinema have switched parties and there is no hope for the future

    like, the Republicans have made winning 2/3 of the country impossible, the justice department doesnt seem to care, and without HR1, they WILL take the senate in 2022, and then they'll just refuse to certify any Democrat in 2024 regardless of election results

    I wonder what the point of anything is anymore, we're on an irreversible spiral towards the end
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    they *absolutely can*, they just *won't*

    If the VP says to the parliamentarian, "go fuck yourself", they need 60 votes to overrule her

    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    IMO more that "the media and voters will savage them for it (and they all get voted out) if they do or even try", because only one party actually gets held accountable for shit anymore.

    Ah yeah the media, definitely should allow the Republicans to rewrite election laws so they automatically win all elections because Fox News will say mean things about Biden

    come on

    MosatiMatev
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    Every bit of news out of congress has been filling me with doom, it really seems like Manchin and Sinema have switched parties and there is no hope for the future

    like, the Republicans have made winning 2/3 of the country impossible, the justice department doesnt seem to care, and without HR1, they WILL take the senate in 2022, and then they'll just refuse to certify any Democrat in 2024 regardless of election results

    I wonder what the point of anything is anymore, we're on an irreversible spiral towards the end
    Still can't use it for voting rights, which is the most important fucking thing.

    they *absolutely can*, they just *won't*

    If the VP says to the parliamentarian, "go fuck yourself", they need 60 votes to overrule her

    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    IMO more that "the media and voters will savage them for it (and they all get voted out) if they do or even try", because only one party actually gets held accountable for shit anymore.

    Ah yeah the media, definitely should allow the Republicans to rewrite election laws so they automatically win all elections because Fox News will say mean things about Biden

    come on

    I'm not talking about Fox, I'm talking about effin' CNN.
    Everyone carries the GOP's water and/or uncritically repeats their talking points (or so it seems sometimes).

    Like, I'm kind of agreeing with you that we're probably boned, because if (when) the Dems actually do or say anything about it, they get accused of partisanship, poor sportsmanship, etc etc (again). And everyone tut-tuts very solemnly and the GOP just keep on doing it.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    People are zeroing in on how to bypass 60 and overlooking that there ain’t even 50

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  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    I’m very skeptical about the filibuster ever going away. It’s too useful for too many people. And the margin on abolishing the filibuster is gonna be so tight that a general “elect democrats” plan is not 100% useless but close it, if your goal is to abolish the filibuster. Manchin and Sinema are just the opposing senators we know of, so anyone else who wants it around doesn’t really need to talk about it right now. And there’s very little pressure on other senators to talk about it, because they can just say it’s moot, with two senators already opposing it. And when it’s election time, there’s going to be very little appetite for questioning the next Sinema about their position on the filibuster, and then you’re back to square one.
    There are absolutely Dems who wont support filibuster removal but are staying quiet while Manchin and Sinema are content to be public fiends.
    The Huffington Post asked the entire Democratic Senate caucus. Leahy didn't budge from his 2019 support, Cantwell didn't reply, and Manchin and Sinema have been discussed. The other 46 are on board enthusiastically or grudgingly with something that allows the majority to govern. There is no quiet faction of Senate Democrats letting those two take the heat.

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 8
    Looking at the Huffington Post piece on it, it looks like there are 20+ Democratic senators who left themselves enough options and rhetorical space to hold literally any position they want in the future. Ambiguity of position cuts both ways. I put their stated position several steps below "we're gonna form a bi-partisan commission to study the issue."

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    Democrats can't force anyone to vote how they want, that's not what they do. They could bribe him, but that won't work for every vote, was well as the fact Manchin needs to keep up appearances as a conservative to stay in his seat. Sure they do, they're just limited by having higher standards with their voters and the GOP has more leeway in general with getting away with shit. Locking up Republicans for being fascists isn't what the Democrats have the authority to do under any circumstance.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    Democrats can't force anyone to vote how they want, that's not what they do. They could bribe him, but that won't work for every vote, was well as the fact Manchin needs to keep up appearances as a conservative to stay in his seat. Sure they do, they're just limited by having higher standards with their voters and the GOP has more leeway in general with getting away with shit. Locking up Republicans for being fascists isn't what the Democrats have the authority to do under any circumstance.

    Manchin ain't staying in his seat. He's basically gonna lose his next election.

    Everything he's doing right now is basically an employment application for wherever he's gonna go after he's no longer in the Senate.

    Probably fucking work for the pharmacorp his daughter is the CEO of and raise the price of EpiPen's by another couple of hundred dollars.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Nah, dude is 73, if he loses re-election or opts to not run again. Then he is unlikely to look for work elsewhere; especially, since there are few jobs that provide more clout than the Senate. Hell, given how must big companies work, dude doesn't need to do a damn thing special to land a gig at his daughter's company if that is somehow his fallback.

    No, all the dumb shit that Manchin is doing is geared into one of two things. Either it's shit he honestly believes is good policy or it's shit he believes will help him retain his seat, if he does plan on running again. None of this is being done as a job interview to get a job at a company elsewhere.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    Democrats can't force anyone to vote how they want, that's not what they do. They could bribe him, but that won't work for every vote, was well as the fact Manchin needs to keep up appearances as a conservative to stay in his seat. Sure they do, they're just limited by having higher standards with their voters and the GOP has more leeway in general with getting away with shit. Locking up Republicans for being fascists isn't what the Democrats have the authority to do under any circumstance.

    He would have to vote one way or the other if we wrapped it into reconcilliation and harris flipped off the parlimentarian

    and I wholeheartedly disagree that the American people care about the inside baseball about senate rules, so we should do that

    TBH I'm hoping someone is willing to shut the government down until we deal with HR1, nothing else matters

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  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    That’s just flat out a terrible idea.

    Shutdowns never provide a benefit, and shutting down the government when in control would be a massive own goal.

    Ridiculous

    shryke wrote: »
    ...Barack "charisma isn't a dump stat, nerds" Obama...
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Mill wrote: »
    Nah, dude is 73, if he loses re-election or opts to not run again. Then he is unlikely to look for work elsewhere; especially, since there are few jobs that provide more clout than the Senate. Hell, given how must big companies work, dude doesn't need to do a damn thing special to land a gig at his daughter's company if that is somehow his fallback.

    No, all the dumb shit that Manchin is doing is geared into one of two things. Either it's shit he honestly believes is good policy or it's shit he believes will help him retain his seat, if he does plan on running again. None of this is being done as a job interview to get a job at a company elsewhere.

    Most of what we know from his history in politics suggests that this is just how he thinks politics works best. You cut a deal across the aisle and then everyone gets to have a big photo-op where we all get to say we worked together and isn't that great and everyone loves that shit.

    I posted that profile Vox did recently a few pages back I think.
    https://www.vox.com/22339531/manchin-filibuster-bipartisanship-senate-west-virginia

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Then it becomes a straight up or down, which it won't matter because Manchin will vote no, but we could at least make him fucking vote no, but we won't, because Democrats refuse to color outside the lines at all because its just a game to them, they don't see the situation of the other party being taken over by a fascist who they swear absolute loyalty to as the existential threat to the nation that it is.

    Democrats can't force anyone to vote how they want, that's not what they do. They could bribe him, but that won't work for every vote, was well as the fact Manchin needs to keep up appearances as a conservative to stay in his seat. Sure they do, they're just limited by having higher standards with their voters and the GOP has more leeway in general with getting away with shit. Locking up Republicans for being fascists isn't what the Democrats have the authority to do under any circumstance.

    He would have to vote one way or the other if we wrapped it into reconcilliation and harris flipped off the parlimentarian

    and I wholeheartedly disagree that the American people care about the inside baseball about senate rules, so we should do that

    TBH I'm hoping someone is willing to shut the government down until we deal with HR1, nothing else matters

    Yes and he would vote No. And now you've pissed him off, provided cover for the people not wanting to do anything to change Senate procedures and pissed off Manchin and other Senators that think like him.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    That’s just flat out a terrible idea.

    Shutdowns never provide a benefit, and shutting down the government when in control would be a massive own goal.

    Ridiculous

    I don't think anything should be off the table to stop shit like Georgia giving a small group of Republicans the right to pick which votes they're going to use

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    shryke wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Nah, dude is 73, if he loses re-election or opts to not run again. Then he is unlikely to look for work elsewhere; especially, since there are few jobs that provide more clout than the Senate. Hell, given how must big companies work, dude doesn't need to do a damn thing special to land a gig at his daughter's company if that is somehow his fallback.

    No, all the dumb shit that Manchin is doing is geared into one of two things. Either it's shit he honestly believes is good policy or it's shit he believes will help him retain his seat, if he does plan on running again. None of this is being done as a job interview to get a job at a company elsewhere.

    Most of what we know from his history in politics suggests that this is just how he thinks politics works best. You cut a deal across the aisle and then everyone gets to have a big photo-op where we all get to say we worked together and isn't that great and everyone loves that shit.

    I posted that profile Vox did recently a few pages back I think.
    https://www.vox.com/22339531/manchin-filibuster-bipartisanship-senate-west-virginia

    And is completely out of touch with the fact that the only photo ops the modern GOP wants are celebrations of how they Owned the Libs, rolled back something Obama did, and/or appointed someone terrible to the SCOTUS.

    (also selfies in Neo-Confederate tacticool cosplay, committing insurrection and hunting Democwats... but that's the mob, not the elected ones, hard as it can be to tell them apart sometimes.)

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