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[Final Fantasy]: My Way!

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    With old games it's never a bug, it's a feature. And any attempt to fix these bugs will be hated for removing features.

    edit: Imagine if Capcom released a version of SFII with the combos patched out, because they were never intended.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Ultima sucked in FFII.

    Bug? No, it's because Ultima is a really really old spell and the regular spells became stronger as time went on and people perfected them.

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    DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    With old games it's never a bug, it's a feature. And any attempt to fix these bugs will be hated for removing features.

    edit: Imagine if Capcom released a version of SFII with the combos patched out, because they were never intended.

    Depends on the bug, in its day the Final Fantasy 6 Sketch bug was so infamous, rumored to even destroy your save file... that I never used the character, let alone the skill. I'm happy to see it gone. (Gau was the other characters rumored to be super bugged)

    The only bug that I'm somewhat attached to is Vanish + X-zone always working because vanish sets all magic immunities to 0%, even death immunity.
    But in my head, it made perfect sense: vanish already untethered you from the mortal world, so of course X-zone would be super effective.
    Although I wouldn't mind if it stopped working on bosses, and heck, nerf it even more by taking away all loot and XP from normal mobs, you are after all, sending them into the phantom zone.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Sketch bug was super fun. The way I always stumbled into it as a lad caused me to get an effectively unlimited supply of Gem Box and Economizer. Also like ten slots of the basic Dagger with like 250 copies in each slot, but you make do.

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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Someone out there did a suuuuuuuuuper deep dive on the sketch bug. What it did was mainly impacted by the battle formation. They ran through I think most of them , a lot just hard crash the game.


    The best results are in the worm that sucks you up to go into gogo's dungeon. Because that battle actually involves script it causes the code affected by sketch bug overflows to affect actual game events. Which causes some really, really weird stuff to happen beyond just graphical glitches and item/magic menu edits

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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Oh I found the vid, apparently also being in imp status affects the outcome too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocs6tHmOKM

    Around 9:00 mins is where the zone eater stuff starts.

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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    FF9 getting the airship.
    I guess the remaster has hi def icons and text. I am used to the pixel versions since I play it in an emulator.
    https://youtu.be/W9ogAS3eQ6g

    Hmm. The remaster does have hi-def character portraits.

    Krathoon on
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    DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    Sketch bug was super fun. The way I always stumbled into it as a lad caused me to get an effectively unlimited supply of Gem Box and Economizer. Also like ten slots of the basic Dagger with like 250 copies in each slot, but you make do.

    Ok, it might be because I played it on a friends console, but... weren't you super scared of blowing up the cartridge?

    Even though I was pretty computer savvy in the day, your SNES looked like it would explode in you sketched the wrong thing.
    We were worried that it would send like a 100 volts through the wrong connector and permanently destroy something.
    And, if I remember, the glitch could certainly permanently change things, I think Kai_Sans exhibition video shows a permanent palette change at the 10 minute mark.
    (Permanent to that save, but even that's weird, why are character palette's included in the save file? it's not like they ever change.)
    I also vaguely remember that Shadow could permanently lose his guard dog, but that might've just been me being gullible.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    He can.

    “Protected by Interceptor” is basically a permanent status effect on Shadow; kinda like how “wearing magitek armor” is programmed. He loses it on the Floating Continent, but gets it back afterwards.

    Normally, you can’t remove it or make him lose it. It’s not coded to be removed by sleeping, or Esuna, or other means. But if someone uses the Rippler spell, that can make him lose it. Rippler is a spell that swaps all status effects between the caster and the target. If an enemy uses Rippler on Shadow, that will move the Interceptor status to them. And when they die, they take the status with them. I think that means it’s also possible to move the status to Strago or Gogo, since they can use Rippler, and could take the status from an enemy who swapped it off of Shadow. But you can’t target allies with Rippler, so you wouldn’t be able to give Interceptor back to Shadow. And if that party member dies, that also removes Interceptor status.

    So, just keep Shadow away from the Blue Dragon, Dark Forces, or big frogs.

    Oh, and if you don’t wait for shadow, Relm gets Interceptor status instead.

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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Just saw mention that FFV PR might have a bug with the Control ability, that causes the game to lock up and/or wipe save files.

    This is so close to the sketch bug its almost hilarious actually.

    Also I never knew Relm got Interceptor status if Shadow dies. I didn't figure out how to save him on my first original playthrough, and never noticed.

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    DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Just saw mention that FFV PR might have a bug with the Control ability, that causes the game to lock up and/or wipe save files.

    This is so close to the sketch bug its almost hilarious actually.

    Also I never knew Relm got Interceptor status if Shadow dies. I didn't figure out how to save him on my first original playthrough, and never noticed.

    Ooh no... I just made Farris my beast master, so that I can steal delicious blue magickxs....

    And Relm is such an interesting character, with fun interactions with the rest of the cast. I just wish she didn't, you know, blow up your SNES with her paintbrush.

    You can steal a fake mustache for her, and Sketch becomes control, So this only strengthens the ties to your bug.

    Or, you know... Squenix is just lousy at programming anything where you take over / duplicate enemies.

    Dibbit on
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Dibbit wrote: »
    Fry wrote: »
    Sketch bug was super fun. The way I always stumbled into it as a lad caused me to get an effectively unlimited supply of Gem Box and Economizer. Also like ten slots of the basic Dagger with like 250 copies in each slot, but you make do.

    Ok, it might be because I played it on a friends console, but... weren't you super scared of blowing up the cartridge?

    Even though I was pretty computer savvy in the day, your SNES looked like it would explode in you sketched the wrong thing.
    We were worried that it would send like a 100 volts through the wrong connector and permanently destroy something.

    This was before the internet. From my perspective, it mostly just looked like sometimes something buggy happened if I put Relm and Strago in the same party (which doesn't actually have anything to do with the real bug, I don't think, but that's how child me thought of it). It never occurred to me that it could affect other save files, or somehow cause damage to the cart or console!

    If I wanted to do the bug, I'd do Relm and Strago and a couple other people, get into a random encounter outside of Narshe in the WoR, and it'd happen pretty consistently. I'd then permanently bench Relm (because Sketch seemed garbage, even when it wasn't causing massive glitches) and go about playing the rest of the game.

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    DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    Fry wrote: »
    Dibbit wrote: »
    Fry wrote: »
    Sketch bug was super fun. The way I always stumbled into it as a lad caused me to get an effectively unlimited supply of Gem Box and Economizer. Also like ten slots of the basic Dagger with like 250 copies in each slot, but you make do.

    Ok, it might be because I played it on a friends console, but... weren't you super scared of blowing up the cartridge?

    Even though I was pretty computer savvy in the day, your SNES looked like it would explode in you sketched the wrong thing.
    We were worried that it would send like a 100 volts through the wrong connector and permanently destroy something.

    This was before the internet. From my perspective, it mostly just looked like sometimes something buggy happened if I put Relm and Strago in the same party (which doesn't actually have anything to do with the real bug, I don't think, but that's how child me thought of it). It never occurred to me that it could affect other save files, or somehow cause damage to the cart or console!

    If I wanted to do the bug, I'd do Relm and Strago and a couple other people, get into a random encounter outside of Narshe in the WoR, and it'd happen pretty consistently. I'd then permanently bench Relm (because Sketch seemed garbage, even when it wasn't causing massive glitches) and go about playing the rest of the game.

    Hehe, no worries, it's just that as a kid I was way scared I'd break computers, there was a lot of misinformation, and I remember believing that pressing the reset button was bad, as someone had told me that it send a rapid shock through the system, potentially destroying any capacitors. So I turned the system off, waited 30 seconds (or at least, counted to thirty, quite quickly) and then turned it on again. (The sprite flickering that every NES had, including mine, was blamed om me pressing the reset button too often. Sometimes random adults can be assholes)

    Dibbit on
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    As a young lad, I once visited a kid who would swap cartridges in the NES without turning it off which horrified me, but didn't seem to hurt anything. I still treated mine with respect, but that experience made me think the NES was pretty tough.

    Fry on
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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    I saw a really good video about the reset and save thing, which I can't find. I found this one though

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO92Sc1CEMU

    In short, reset just makes the CPU stop. Powering off actually was the REAL bad thing because the CPU can keep going for a bit while it slows down, and slowing down can make it do things it wasn't supposed to. Which had a small chance of landing on a save file.

    The other vid explained that one safeguard most designers did was make it so saves were written multiple times to the RAM so that if the CPU did accidentally hit a single line of a save, there would be like 4-9 other ones it didn't, and when loading the save it would be able to see only one was different and ignore it. Which is pretty smart. Until you know, like the video said, it started just gatekeeping writes to the save data in a way that a slowly powering down CPU wouldn't be able to accidentally pass through.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I don't ever remember really using Relm or Sketch. Just one day I was playing, and suddenly I had Dirk x 0A, among other things, like enough Genji gloves, Offerings, and Atma weapons to equip everybody who could use them. That was a fun playthrough.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I remember really liking Relm when I first played it and built her into a magic powerhouse. And I keep doing that to this day.

    But also I had fun with sketch and definitely started having problems with it, including the menus screwing up and the game crashing. I know people say they can't confirm it broke saves but I definitely had my saved game get torched. Every time I tried to load the game it would crash immediately.

    I returned it at EB at one point and no one believed me there was a problem. Got another copy, had the same thing happen, and that was my introduction to super fucky bugs and the ways I could toy with them.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    Relm destroyed a save of mine with inventory bugs. I remember it being a net benefit with dozens of Illumina blades and paladin shields, etc.

    navgoose on
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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    FF9
    I stopped flying around the world doing side quests and focused on the main quest. I went to Ipsen's Castle and fought the boss. Red head guy left my group. Then , I ran into Tonnberrys that killed three of my party members.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    I have been on a bit of a journey.

    A couple weeks ago, somehow out of nowhere, I stumbled across a guy playing FF7 demake for NES. Which was originally a Chinese bootleg that was really bad, and had basically no FF7 music or enemy sprites, it was just the bare minimum to call itself an adaptation of FF7. Then some FF7 fans found it and went over it with a fine tooth comb, and made versions of all the FF7 music for NES, as well as all the enemies, and redid a lot of the areas and graphics to match the original to make it into a proper demake. And it's a tedious game but still neat to see.

    Well the guy who was playing it is pretty cool. 4-8 Productions, I would describe him as a thoughtful informative sort of streamer. He has dabbled in various speed run world records, and even discovered some significant glitches that people still use today. And he's also done lots of FF7 challenge/mod playthroughs. The coolest one is Necrosis...the idea is that at the start of the game you are given 9999 HP and 999 MP, and there is no way to recover either of these. Ever. 9999 HP to spend, beginning to end. Suddenly every 20-40 damage you take from every random enemy adds up significantly, and you find yourself having to use some really creative strategies and materia combinations to get through various parts of the game. And then this guy played it all the way through with Cloud solo. Just nuts.

    Another challenge he did was the HP<->MP challenge, where he hacked in the HP<->MP swap materia for every character, right from the start. So you're barely holding together with 200 HP up into mid-game, but you've got this giant pool of 2000 MP to spend...if you can survive a single hit.

    I've binged through some of his stream playlists while doing other things, had it running in the background. And it reminded me, hey FF7 was pretty cool, wasn't it? So I bought it on Steam for $12 and I have played all the way through it, sort of 100%ing it, grabbing every treasure and diving into secrets. The last time I played it was...I think early high school when the internet was young, so there were definitely things I had missed at the time. It's nice to play it full res on PC and appreciating the details of the low res backgrounds, noticing stuff I never saw before.

    And just now I watched Advent Children Complete, having not seen the original since the theater in 2005. Boy what a garbage movie that is. People like to say "it's just fan service," but if it was fan service then as a fan I would've thought I'd be better serviced? It reminded me of an Avengers movie, except none of the Avengers have any part in the story, they just show up for 30 seconds to fight a little and say one thing that vaguely reminds you of their character but is also entirely unrepresentative of who they should be. Absolutely no one acts like a human being at any point in this film. A town is being terrorized and people are screaming and dying, meanwhile Marlene asks Tifa "who are these anime protagonists who just showed up," and Tifa smiles sweetly and pauses for 10 seconds before saying "they're our friends," as 40 villagers are slain to her right. Apropos of nothing, the villains accuse each other of crying(?), and then actually cry(?!), and go around ranting about mothers and brothers in an extremely embarrassing way. I think when I first saw it I was just glad it wasn't as bad as Spirits Within and I got to see nice renders of characters from a game, but now it's like a can't-look-away trainwreck. 10 out of 10.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I am going to miss this 4X speed option XII has when it's not in any of the other games. It should be in everything!

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I hate advent children and all the garbage FF7 spinoffs so much

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I remember really liking Relm when I first played it and built her into a magic powerhouse. And I keep doing that to this day.

    But also I had fun with sketch and definitely started having problems with it, including the menus screwing up and the game crashing. I know people say they can't confirm it broke saves but I definitely had my saved game get torched. Every time I tried to load the game it would crash immediately.

    I returned it at EB at one point and no one believed me there was a problem. Got another copy, had the same thing happen, and that was my introduction to super fucky bugs and the ways I could toy with them.

    Relm was OP as all hell in my "natural" run(no magicite). There was also this chat room game waaaay back in the day that had every FF6 character and no one used her.

    I figured out she was broken as all hell, since her Sketch let her copy any character's ability and use it against them.

    wVEsyIc.png
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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    In normal runs realm is op. She has the highest magic stat and that stat is like the best stat in the game. Sure you can pump others likely higher by the time you get her, but still

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    21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Is it possible to play multi-disc PSX game (such as FFVIII) on a Playstation 3? I'm getting a big "no" as the answer but i wanna be sure before i re-buy FFVIII-FFIX on steam.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    You should, yeah.

    Holding down the PS button should give you a menu where one of the options is 'Swap disc' or 'Eject disc' or something like that, where it would spit out the current disc and accept the new one, provided the game has prompted you to do so.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I hate advent children and all the garbage FF7 spinoffs so much

    I enjoyed AC, but I'm of the opinion that FF7's original ending after Sephiroth's defeat is needlessly vague and unsatisfying.

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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Advent Children is a nice epilogue. It gives Cloud closure.
    I like it when the team comes back together.

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    DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    So, I'm playing Final Fantasy 5 Repixeled. And I'm having a lot of fun.

    I've just won the second encounter against ExDeath, the evil tree, and it seems that either the remaster has something wonky going on with its combat clock, or regen and doom are completely broken.
    Namely: ExDeath cast "Doom - you will die in 30 seconds!" on a character, and not only did it take the whole battle to go off (~4 minutes or so), and was seemingly immediately stuck at 14 seconds left.
    At some point, the second counter even went up, giving me an extra 9 seconds!

    Also, since I thought "hey, this is a long battle, lets cast regen" and in the whole battle, it procced maybe twice for 48 hp.
    Since my character have around 1000 ~ 1500 hp, it is a hilarious waste of time, and I would've been better of having my mage bonk ExDeath over the head with their noodle arms.

    Is this new for the remaster, or are these two spells just wonky and broken? (I mean, the Doom helped me, as it just was a "ExDeath wastes a turn", but still...)

    Dibbit on
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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    I hate advent children and all the garbage FF7 spinoffs so much

    I enjoyed AC, but I'm of the opinion that FF7's original ending after Sephiroth's defeat is needlessly vague and unsatisfying.

    The FF7 ending isn't even really an ending. The end sequence itself doesn't even feel like it was finished, the starfield screensaver thing they throw out at the very very end feels very much like a placeholder for the actual ending. It's plainly obvious that the sequence with Red was supposed to be a stinger, not the actual ending. We were obviously supposed to see something like what the various characters did in the aftermath of Meteor, then the credits, then the "ending" we actually got in order to show that not only does he find more of his own people, but that humanity has long abandoned Midgar and it's life-sucking power plants.

    The ending in FF7 is actually part of what makes me like the ending of FF8 so much. After 40+ hours of getting to know the story and the characters, I want a fucking conclusion, not this open-ended nonsense. FF7 is a bunch of "what?", the ending to FF8 is "here's a whole home footage sequence showing that everybody made it through, even some of the villains". I fought to save the world, so did I save the damn world? And yes, people are definitely a big part of that, so it's pretty important to know if I saved all the people too.

    And yeah, not only AC is fanservice, but the absolute worst kind of fanservice where they figured they could ignore any semblance of quality except a) decent visuals and b) flashy combat. It is just a whole pile of bad anime stereotypes and they're badly-done. The only positive bit is that it establishes that the human race not only survives Meteor, it immediately discards the planet-destroying Mako tech and starts pivoting towards other options. The writing is terrible, the characterization nonexistent, and it's painfully anime in its fight sequences, but at least we got to finally find out if the world made it.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    You should, yeah.

    Holding down the PS button should give you a menu where one of the options is 'Swap disc' or 'Eject disc' or something like that, where it would spit out the current disc and accept the new one, provided the game has prompted you to do so.

    all i've see by googling it is that ejecting the disc also closes the emulator and i really don't want to have to do Disc 1 twice.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    FF7's ending is good actually

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I present to you the FF7 ending in its entirety:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzhI6qwJjvo

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    I PRESENT TO YOU FF7'S ACTUAL ENDING

    I have finally done this after nopeing out on both as a teen!

    hy1OXB9.png
    In case anyone doesn't get it or doesn't remember, these are the Kalm Traveler's gifts for beating Emerald and Ruby Weapon :o

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Dibbit wrote: »
    So, I'm playing Final Fantasy 5 Repixeled. And I'm having a lot of fun.

    I've just won the second encounter against ExDeath, the evil tree, and it seems that either the remaster has something wonky going on with its combat clock, or regen and doom are completely broken.
    Namely: ExDeath cast "Doom - you will die in 30 seconds!" on a character, and not only did it take the whole battle to go off (~4 minutes or so), and was seemingly immediately stuck at 14 seconds left.
    At some point, the second counter even went up, giving me an extra 9 seconds!

    Also, since I thought "hey, this is a long battle, lets cast regen" and in the whole battle, it procced maybe twice for 48 hp.
    Since my character have around 1000 ~ 1500 hp, it is a hilarious waste of time, and I would've been better of having my mage bonk ExDeath over the head with their noodle arms.

    Is this new for the remaster, or are these two spells just wonky and broken? (I mean, the Doom helped me, as it just was a "ExDeath wastes a turn", but still...)

    To answer this no, that is not how they worked in the original. Regen especially was super strong in the SNES version. Sounds like something got kicked up when toying with the atb from the original I guess

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    You should, yeah.

    Holding down the PS button should give you a menu where one of the options is 'Swap disc' or 'Eject disc' or something like that, where it would spit out the current disc and accept the new one, provided the game has prompted you to do so.

    all i've see by googling it is that ejecting the disc also closes the emulator and i really don't want to have to do Disc 1 twice.

    It shouldn't do that so long as you eject when the game expects it, ie when it says 'insert disc 2'.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Some FF7 thoughts and theory I had. I mean, it's not really a firm theory, since nothing in the game seems to indicate it or point toward it. I guess you could call it, "wouldn't it be cool if this was the case, and it's not explicitly DISproven."

    To begin with, we have to be on the same page with one of the main premises of the game which many people are confused by:
    Throughout the majority of the game, you are never really chasing Sephiroth. You are chasing Jenova, which is being "puppeteered" by Sephiroth's will from the North Crater, where he is encased in crystal. The only times you ever see the real Sephiroth is in the Nibelheim flashback, his body encased in crystal when he activates the black materia, and at the very end when you defeat him. The rest of it is Jenova using its John Carpenter's The Thing-esque powers to look like whatever it wants; in this case, Sephiroth. This is why you fight a writhing mass of Jenova multiple times in the game, when "Sephiroth" tosses a piece of itself at the party and it becomes a huge monstrosity.

    This is all established by a few crucial dialogue boxes in the original game, and confirmed by developer sources clarifying it in interviews and such.

    Therefore, early on in the game, Sephiroth doesn't show up at Shinra HQ and steal Jenova. Jenova breaks out itself, and just chooses to look like Sephiroth (or perhaps cannot help but look like Sephiroth, because he is controlling it/linked to it).

    So with that established, this raises the question, why now?
    Why did Jenova suddenly decide to burst free of its containment at the exact moment the party was there to witness it?

    You could argue that Cloud being nearby somehow activated it/woke it up like nothing else could. However, this isn't made explicit anywhere in the game. Hojo is constantly experimenting with Jenova cells and implanting them in SOLDIERs to make them strong, so bits of Jenova have been all over his lab at all times. Why didn't other parts wake it up at any other time? I guess you could say Cloud's special connection with Sephiroth was more meaningful. But I don't like things just relying on fate and special connections like that.

    My theory:
    At Nibelheim, Jenova was contained within the mako reactor. It's connected to all kinds of tanks and tubes and wires. Something about the reactor is being used to sustain and contain it. Then, they moved it to Midgar, the most well-powered place on the planet. It's always sealed in a glowing chamber, and powered alien containment units are a longstanding trope...as is the trope of escape when the power gets interrupted.

    So what if AVALANCHE, by destroying two mako reactors (and Shinra destroying an eighth of the city) threw off the power grid enough to give Jenova the opportunity it needed to escape containment?

    If this was even enough to cause brownouts or a brief flicker, that could be enough of a weakness to allow it to break out.

    And I like the idea that even from the very start of the game, your actions are setting up the breach, that Jenova was just waiting for the right time when its containment would fail and it could answer Sephiroth's call. That each bombing mission and subsequent sector collapse were necessary to set events in motion. I think the story would be stronger and more interesting if this actually turned out to be the case.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    FF7 Remake states that
    Jenova doesn't free Jenova, a Sephiroth puppet does so for him. I think this makes sense, as an important plot point in original 7 is Sephiroth using this power on Cloud to have him surrender the Black Materia and then attempt to have him kill Aeris. Why does Sephiroth act then? I guess you'd say he was building up control over his powers and the intelligence necessary to start the Reunion and have his agents do what he wanted.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Some FF7 thoughts and theory I had. I mean, it's not really a firm theory, since nothing in the game seems to indicate it or point toward it. I guess you could call it, "wouldn't it be cool if this was the case, and it's not explicitly DISproven."

    To begin with, we have to be on the same page with one of the main premises of the game which many people are confused by:
    Throughout the majority of the game, you are never really chasing Sephiroth. You are chasing Jenova, which is being "puppeteered" by Sephiroth's will from the North Crater, where he is encased in crystal. The only times you ever see the real Sephiroth is in the Nibelheim flashback, his body encased in crystal when he activates the black materia, and at the very end when you defeat him. The rest of it is Jenova using its John Carpenter's The Thing-esque powers to look like whatever it wants; in this case, Sephiroth. This is why you fight a writhing mass of Jenova multiple times in the game, when "Sephiroth" tosses a piece of itself at the party and it becomes a huge monstrosity.

    This is all established by a few crucial dialogue boxes in the original game, and confirmed by developer sources clarifying it in interviews and such.

    Therefore, early on in the game, Sephiroth doesn't show up at Shinra HQ and steal Jenova. Jenova breaks out itself, and just chooses to look like Sephiroth (or perhaps cannot help but look like Sephiroth, because he is controlling it/linked to it).

    So with that established, this raises the question, why now?
    Why did Jenova suddenly decide to burst free of its containment at the exact moment the party was there to witness it?

    You could argue that Cloud being nearby somehow activated it/woke it up like nothing else could. However, this isn't made explicit anywhere in the game. Hojo is constantly experimenting with Jenova cells and implanting them in SOLDIERs to make them strong, so bits of Jenova have been all over his lab at all times. Why didn't other parts wake it up at any other time? I guess you could say Cloud's special connection with Sephiroth was more meaningful. But I don't like things just relying on fate and special connections like that.

    My theory:
    At Nibelheim, Jenova was contained within the mako reactor. It's connected to all kinds of tanks and tubes and wires. Something about the reactor is being used to sustain and contain it. Then, they moved it to Midgar, the most well-powered place on the planet. It's always sealed in a glowing chamber, and powered alien containment units are a longstanding trope...as is the trope of escape when the power gets interrupted.

    So what if AVALANCHE, by destroying two mako reactors (and Shinra destroying an eighth of the city) threw off the power grid enough to give Jenova the opportunity it needed to escape containment?

    If this was even enough to cause brownouts or a brief flicker, that could be enough of a weakness to allow it to break out.

    And I like the idea that even from the very start of the game, your actions are setting up the breach, that Jenova was just waiting for the right time when its containment would fail and it could answer Sephiroth's call. That each bombing mission and subsequent sector collapse were necessary to set events in motion. I think the story would be stronger and more interesting if this actually turned out to be the case.
    It didn't necessarily need to be Jenova breaking itself out. There are also the other tattooed men in black cloaks, who were all gradually making their way to Midgar because of the Reunion. Sephiroth can control them too, and some of the JENOVA bosses you fight, turn into the hooded figures once you beat them.

    My personal take is that it's simply one of the clones, possibly the one you come across in Sector 5. The reason I don't think it was Jenova itself was because of the sword that impaled President Shinra. It was definitely real, and not part of Jenova, and it had to come from somewhere.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    FF7 Remake states that
    Jenova doesn't free Jenova, a Sephiroth puppet does so for him. I think this makes sense, as an important plot point in original 7 is Sephiroth using this power on Cloud to have him surrender the Black Materia and then attempt to have him kill Aeris. Why does Sephiroth act then? I guess you'd say he was building up control over his powers and the intelligence necessary to start the Reunion and have his agents do what he wanted.

    I know this, but I'm talking about FF7 that I just played and not the Remake.

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