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[Final Fantasy]: My Way!

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Posts

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Then, they adapted Chocoboo Racing into more of a car racing game.

    They are going to have a sequel this year.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocobo_GP

    Krathoon on
    Elvenshae
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I super wish they would just make a chocobo breeding/racing game. I'm sure chocobo GP will feel like a not quite as good Mario kart but with ff characters. But I could play a little farm sim, horse betting, explore for exotic stuff for the farm type of game for quite a while.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    FF7 ending could have been better, but calling it ME levels. Do endings really have to be definitive and spell everything out? Is it OK to allow some ambiguity and room for interpretation? Especially when the central question of this game is the nearish future of humanity with respect to how it is treating the planet.

  • 21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    FF7 ending could have been better, but calling it ME levels. Do endings really have to be definitive and spell everything out? Is it OK to allow some ambiguity and room for interpretation? Especially when the central question of this game is the nearish future of humanity with respect to how it is treating the planet.

    i'm being a bit facetious but it does more or less the same thing as ME3, in that it does not offer a meaningful epilogue beyond "in the far future, this is how it looks".

    This is less "leave a bit of room for interpretation" and more "Eh, Endings are difficult, we'll let the players decide what happens afterwards."

    It's not bad but it's unsatisfying.

  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    The ending to ff7 is fine.

    I mean coming off the heels of ff6 it's like apples to oranges. The SNES ff games kept trying to outdo themselves on ending length and spectacle. Ff7 goes for the subtle approach. A lot of games started doing that around that time too. Just imply what happened and use what you understand about the story to explain it for yourself.

    It honestly gets more acceptable over time really. I hated it back in the day too because it was like, right after the 17 minute ending of ff6

    McMoogle
  • 21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Kai_San wrote: »
    The ending to ff7 is fine.

    I mean coming off the heels of ff6 it's like apples to oranges. The SNES ff games kept trying to outdo themselves on ending length and spectacle. Ff7 goes for the subtle approach. A lot of games started doing that around that time too. Just imply what happened and use what you understand about the story to explain it for yourself.

    It honestly gets more acceptable over time really. I hated it back in the day too because it was like, right after the 17 minute ending of ff6

    i guess i'm a little bit bitter that they did NOT leave it alone by any means and did make altogether too much FF7 media afterwards.

    Kai_SanCaedwyrBahamutZEROWhelk
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Taking the original FF7 on its own, I kind of feel like the ending as written is basically what they had to do.
    One of the major open questions regarding the invocation of Holy was whether Humanity writ large was positive or negative for the planet. And the problem is that if you say "Humans are not worth sparing and Holy destroyed us all", well, that's certainly an ending you could write, and if you say "Humans aren't evil and deserve to continue to exist on the planet," well, you're just kind of inviting hot takes on how Square's saying pollution is A-OK so long as you feel sorry about it later. It's a question that, if you're going to pose it, you have to leave the answer ambiguous.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    I don't think Holy killed everyone. It is just that the humans died out in the far future.

    That is why we have Advent Children.

    Krathoon on
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    For me I didn’t really care about the “world” of the ending, just the characters themselves. And in that area there were a lot of missteps and unsatisfying resolutions that bugged me more than like the ending ending. It had good elements, but overall I felt like the characters kind of lose any focus by the last quarter of the game

    Im hoping the remake doesn’t get too wrapped around the axle trying to explain all the world event plot and instead uses the space to do more challenging and interesting things with the characters and inter group developments

    Like I enjoy all the gia and lore as much as the next person, but the focus should always be on the characters themselves. It should be reflected through them, what it means to them, how it changes them, etc

    There’s a lot of opportunities for salvage and to really make it shine, but also a lot of danger that the remakes could get waylaid by lore and trying to over-explain and “fix” plot threads together rather than remembering everything should come back to the characters. The difference between a good ending and a bad one in fiction is rarely whether it has plot holes or whether it wraps all the threads up, it’s whether it feels emotionally resonant and satisfying

    Prohass on
    H3KnucklesKanaAbsoluteZero
  • Shenl742Shenl742 Registered User regular
    I feel like people are overlooking a component of the last custscene though
    When Holy seems to failing* and all seems lost, there's a big convergence of lifestream that intercepts Meteor, seemingly independent of what else is going on (though by context clues has something to do with Aerith). So if Holy is gonna destroy everything...then what was the point of that bit with the lifestream?

    *Also a key line of dialogue is Red XIII saying that "it's too late for Holy", which seems to indicate that problem going on is that Holy wasn't summoned in time

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  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Shenl742 wrote: »
    I feel like people are overlooking a component of the last custscene though
    When Holy seems to failing* and all seems lost, there's a big convergence of lifestream that intercepts Meteor, seemingly independent of what else is going on (though by context clues has something to do with Aerith). So if Holy is gonna destroy everything...then what was the point of that bit with the lifestream?

    *Also a key line of dialogue is Red XIII saying that "it's too late for Holy", which seems to indicate that problem going on is that Holy wasn't summoned in time

    It wasn't Holy, like RedXIII said

    Even the music really implies the lifestream came to the rescue of the planet. That is the big ending revelation. The lives in the lifestream after being nearly sucked dry still decide the planet is worth saving. I think even that Buugenhagen dude or someone goes over it at one point that this could happen?

    Also, with regards to the characters, the game somewhat implies that they all get their resolutions when everyone leaves the ship for a time before the final battle. So there is no resolving afterward. Unfortunately it is all offscreen. That is just one of those products of the times. Same thing with all the missing stuff in FF6 that needed to be more implied. For that is was definitely lack of space. I think FF7 it was just lack of time or just that they hadn't gotten to the point of those fully developed stories.

    Shenl742BlackDragon480
  • Shenl742Shenl742 Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Shenl742 wrote: »
    I feel like people are overlooking a component of the last custscene though
    When Holy seems to failing* and all seems lost, there's a big convergence of lifestream that intercepts Meteor, seemingly independent of what else is going on (though by context clues has something to do with Aerith). So if Holy is gonna destroy everything...then what was the point of that bit with the lifestream?

    *Also a key line of dialogue is Red XIII saying that "it's too late for Holy", which seems to indicate that problem going on is that Holy wasn't summoned in time

    It wasn't Holy, like RedXIII said

    Even the music really implies the lifestream came to the rescue of the planet. That is the big ending revelation. The lives in the lifestream after being nearly sucked dry still decide the planet is worth saving. I think even that Buugenhagen dude or someone goes over it at one point that this could happen?

    Also, with regards to the characters, the game somewhat implies that they all get their resolutions when everyone leaves the ship for a time before the final battle. So there is no resolving afterward. Unfortunately it is all offscreen. That is just one of those products of the times. Same thing with all the missing stuff in FF6 that needed to be more implied. For that is was definitely lack of space. I think FF7 it was just lack of time or just that they hadn't gotten to the point of those fully developed stories.

    Woops, think I what meant to say ended up a little garbles.
    I know that Holy and all the lifestream showing up are two different things, guess I wasn't clear?

    What I meant to get across is that if everyone ends up dying, than what's with the lifestream suddenly appearing? What's with the triumphant music (as you brought up), what's up with Marlene sensing Aerith's presence?

    Shenl742 on
    FC: 1907-8030-1478
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Advent Children is a godawful trashfire.

    Whoever the characters are in that thing, they sure as fuck aren't the ones from FF7.

    It's kinda an interesting relic of how Cloud's character has been received over time, if nothing else.

    Like in the original game Cloud's got some shit going on, and can be the butt of jokes, but the part everyone seems to have taken away at the time is that he's a total badass with a big sword and no emotions. And it feels like Advent Children is Square just deciding to totally lean into that. Verrry '90s too-cool-for-school.

    Whereas now that they're taking another spin at it in Remake Cloud's a lot more vulnerable, and even when he's being grouchily stoic the other characters treat it as a dorky trait of his that they wanna make fun of.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    i think we can all agree peak 90s too cool for school is in ff8 after one of the laguna sequences squall thinks "i dreamt i was a moron"

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    I think it works because teenagers think adults are morons, even if the adults are cool and fun

    Like I was watching Jack black playing video games with his teenage son and the son very much was embarrassed by his dad, and I’m like you stupid teenager, don’t you realise your dad is Jack black!?

    It’s the circle of life

    Altho was lacuna the same age as squall in the flashbacks?

    Prohass on
    IceBurner
  • Shenl742Shenl742 Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I think it works because teenagers think adults are morons, even if the adults are cool and fun

    Like I was watching Jack black playing video games with his teenage son and the son very much was embarrassed by his dad, and I’m like you stupid teenager, don’t you realise your dad is Jack black!?

    It’s the circle of life

    Altho was lacuna the same age as squall in the flashbacks?

    Laguna was 27 in the flashbacks, a decade older than Squall

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Shenl742 wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I think it works because teenagers think adults are morons, even if the adults are cool and fun

    Like I was watching Jack black playing video games with his teenage son and the son very much was embarrassed by his dad, and I’m like you stupid teenager, don’t you realise your dad is Jack black!?

    It’s the circle of life

    Altho was lacuna the same age as squall in the flashbacks?

    Laguna was 27 in the flashbacks, a decade older than Squall

    So 100% middle aged in anime/jrpg years then

    Prohass on
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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Cloud was explicitly designed to have as little personality as needed so he could be more of a (young male) audience self-insert. That's why the designers say they gave him that name! He's not supposed to express emotions because that is your job. Squall's inner monologues in FF8 were due to a desire to move away from that approach in FF7 and allow him to become his own character.

    One thing one of the Remake leads commented on is that Cloud did not get proper time to grow up due to his time crammed into a testube. So they've been trying to make clearer how he's immature in some ways, and the tough act is in large part faking being an adult, which is probably what opens up opportunities for the others to clown on him. This was brought up when explaining what was going on in his "date" (chapter 12?) optional scene with Tifa in Remake.

    rahkeesh2000 on
    ProhassElvenshaeH3Knuckles
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    God the remake was just so good with all the characters writing. Please don’t drop the ball for part 2

    Prohass on
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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Carpy wrote: »
    Google, why you promoting obvious fakes

    xrlz68eo4jjm.png

    Not to derail the thread completely, but holy shit is this an example of games writing today.

    That entire article was based on a comment that a person involved in the original would love to do a sequel. That's it.

    Fucking click bait hacks.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Rockin' ShoujoRegistered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Advent Children is a godawful trashfire.

    Whoever the characters are in that thing, they sure as fuck aren't the ones from FF7.

    Well, they got Yuffie right.

    oK4l3R4.png
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Carpy wrote: »
    Google, why you promoting obvious fakes


    Not to derail the thread completely, but holy shit is this an example of games writing today.

    That entire article was based on a comment that a person involved in the original would love to do a sequel. That's it.

    Fucking click bait hacks.

    This is way beyond clickbait. This went off on a full fledged lie of a title.

    H3KnucklesFencingsax
  • 21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Kai_San wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Carpy wrote: »
    Google, why you promoting obvious fakes


    Not to derail the thread completely, but holy shit is this an example of games writing today.

    That entire article was based on a comment that a person involved in the original would love to do a sequel. That's it.

    Fucking click bait hacks.

    This is way beyond clickbait. This went off on a full fledged lie of a title.

    YOU WON'T BELIEVE.

    ElvenshaeH3KnucklesFencingsaxDignified PauperEmperorSethTamerBill
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Carpy wrote: »
    Google, why you promoting obvious fakes

    xrlz68eo4jjm.png

    Not to derail the thread completely, but holy shit is this an example of games writing today.

    That entire article was based on a comment that a person involved in the original would love to do a sequel. That's it.

    Fucking click bait hacks.

    Well they got you to click on it didn't they?

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    Andy JoeElvenshaemanwiththemachinegunH3KnucklesMegaMan001Fencingsax
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Reznik wrote: »
    Advent Children is a godawful trashfire.

    Whoever the characters are in that thing, they sure as fuck aren't the ones from FF7.

    It's kinda an interesting relic of how Cloud's character has been received over time, if nothing else.

    Like in the original game Cloud's got some shit going on, and can be the butt of jokes, but the part everyone seems to have taken away at the time is that he's a total badass with a big sword and no emotions. And it feels like Advent Children is Square just deciding to totally lean into that. Verrry '90s too-cool-for-school.

    Whereas now that they're taking another spin at it in Remake Cloud's a lot more vulnerable, and even when he's being grouchily stoic the other characters treat it as a dorky trait of his that they wanna make fun of.
    Kana wrote: »
    Reznik wrote: »
    Advent Children is a godawful trashfire.

    Whoever the characters are in that thing, they sure as fuck aren't the ones from FF7.

    It's kinda an interesting relic of how Cloud's character has been received over time, if nothing else.

    Like in the original game Cloud's got some shit going on, and can be the butt of jokes, but the part everyone seems to have taken away at the time is that he's a total badass with a big sword and no emotions. And it feels like Advent Children is Square just deciding to totally lean into that. Verrry '90s too-cool-for-school.

    Whereas now that they're taking another spin at it in Remake Cloud's a lot more vulnerable, and even when he's being grouchily stoic the other characters treat it as a dorky trait of his that they wanna make fun of.

    That's an overstatement since for the majority of the party, especially midgame, Cloud is viewed as seriously compromised at best. He's gets better, but I never had a problem buying Cloud had depression/PTSD as a result of not only Aeris dying, but also Zack. Cloud was a weak person like you or me who just wanted to be strong. And frequently "failed" when it mattered most. Its only afterwards he starts to gain more confidence, and does become strong by the end of the story.

    Cloud had a psychological breakdown and was mind controlled. You dont just *walk it off*. Thus I was fine with the majority of AC being focused on him actually getting over that trauma and forgiving himself.

    H3KnucklesShenl742brynhrtmnitalianranmaFencingsax
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Cloud had a psychological breakdown and was mind controlled. You dont just *walk it off*. Thus I was fine with the majority of AC being focused on him actually getting over that trauma and forgiving himself.

    Something that's been a bit understated to this point, is that it's arguably Cloud's fault that Aerith got skewered. He's right next to her when it happens while the rest of the party is far away. And the party including Cloud instantly proves in the next scene that it was physically capable of defeating the clone, surely he could have done something to save Aerith in that scene if not reeling from attempted mind control.

    Related remake spoilers:
    With future? Seph going off on "7 seconds until the end, what will you do with it?", I got a strong feeling this is foreshadowing Cloud doing something different in the time the clone falls from the sky towards Aerith. Like he just has to raise his blade to cross swords with the Sephiclone and Aerith probably lives.

    manwiththemachinegun
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Cloud has allot of guilt over Aerith's death. He finally gets over it in Advent Children. Aerith is fine in the afterlife with her boyfriend.

    H3Knuckles
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    It's has been a long long fucking time since I played the original FF7 but I feel like the Zach reveal wasn't nearly as big as it should have been?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    H3Knuckles
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    It's has been a long long fucking time since I played the original FF7 but I feel like the Zach reveal wasn't nearly as big as it should have been?

    As a kid I basically physically couldn’t understand the zack reveal. Like it was just never a part of the story I internalised. And that’s a problem cos it’s like the main twist. But it was conveyed so poorly and confusingly I just ignored it entirely.

    Prohass on
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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    It's has been a long long fucking time since I played the original FF7 but I feel like the Zach reveal wasn't nearly as big as it should have been?

    That's because additional information is hidden in an area you're not required to visit. Definitely not how it would have been done in any future FF title, but they were kind of trailblazing the whole 3D RPG with FMV video thing...

    H3KnucklesFencingsaxKai_San
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Cloud had a psychological breakdown and was mind controlled. You dont just *walk it off*. Thus I was fine with the majority of AC being focused on him actually getting over that trauma and forgiving himself.

    Something that's been a bit understated to this point, is that it's arguably Cloud's fault that Aerith got skewered. He's right next to her when it happens while the rest of the party is far away. And the party including Cloud instantly proves in the next scene that it was physically capable of defeating the clone, surely he could have done something to save Aerith in that scene if not reeling from attempted mind control.

    Related remake spoilers:
    With future? Seph going off on "7 seconds until the end, what will you do with it?", I got a strong feeling this is foreshadowing Cloud doing something different in the time the clone falls from the sky towards Aerith. Like he just has to raise his blade to cross swords with the Sephiclone and Aerith probably lives.

    Even worse, he nearly did it himself.
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    It's has been a long long fucking time since I played the original FF7 but I feel like the Zach reveal wasn't nearly as big as it should have been?

    The fallout is only shown in an optional cutscene if you go back to Shinra mansion. Even so, we don't really get Cloud's take on it other than his explanation to Tifa and the party after he escapes the Lifestream.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    I always thought Cloud was pretty clearly depicted in the OG as an awkward immature dork. I feel like if you thought he was always a stoic cool guy you weren't really paying attention to him
    - in the very beginning of the game, for the first reactor mission, he leans HARD on "I'm a cool guy and I don't care about anything", then the second he gets back to 7th Heaven and Tifa calls him on being a cool guy who doesn't care about anything he apologizes to her and stops acting like that
    - Aeris ropes him into shit, like, instantly. He'll have one line of protest and then go along with her scheme
    - anything related to the relationship/love triangle stuff is basically Cloud being completely oblivious while Tifa and Aeris wave their hands in his face
    - he's got motion sickness and claustrophobia, both of which come up a couple of times, neither of which would ever be a character trait for a true 90s coolguy
    - he just has a lot of hilarious dialogue, like when you're facing down a Jenovaroth in the Nibelheim basement rambling about Reunion and Cloud yells "I don't even know what a reunion is!"
    - his cool motivational line before the whole crew descends into the crater to their possible deaths is "Let's mosey" and they have Cid yell at him for how lame that is

    Re: Cloud in Advent Children

    "Hero dealing with the repercussions of all the crazy shit that just happened" could have been an excellent story, but they didn't tell it well at all in Advent Children. They didn't show Cloud's change from his FF7 endgame state into a sadguy, and they only really acted like his avoidant behaviour - but not his overall mopeyness - was the problem. There was basically no trace of OG FF7 Cloud anywhere in Advent Children. Add on to that, neither the script nor the performances were good enough to sell a compelling tale of post-adventure PTSD.

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    Forget it...
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  • Darth_MogsDarth_Mogs Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Carpy wrote: »
    Google, why you promoting obvious fakes

    xrlz68eo4jjm.png

    Not to derail the thread completely, but holy shit is this an example of games writing today.

    That entire article was based on a comment that a person involved in the original would love to do a sequel. That's it.

    Fucking click bait hacks.

    There's always shit like this, though. There always has been. Acting as if it's an example of things 'today' is technically not wrong but it intentionally frames things in a bad light, which is a pretty slippery slope to, y'know, other things.

    Call out bad shit when it happens. Don't normalize it, though.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Cloud in VII is only "more chill and rolling with it" until things start falling apart with his control over himself, is almost completely disappears after the events of the Ancient City, and everything post Lifestream is cold and distant. I think the main reason people think he's behaving "wrong" in AC is because there's an assumption that after the ending things should just be "better", but they're not. Plus, the majority of that "chill and rolling with it" personality is simply his attempts at mirroring Zach, who he modeled himself after, but can't even remember existed. That personality was never Clouds, it was Zachs; the few glimpses of pure Cloud we ever see in VII is his super serious focus on his hero journey to Tifa, him being quiet and stand-off-ish and not getting along with the other kids. Once he went through the Lifestream and connected to his real memories and remembered Zach, he loses the plucky adventurer personality of Zach and goes back to the "hero saving the world" vibe he began with.

    He didn't have the time during VII to work out his clusterfuck of self identity, and while he unlocked all of his real memories after the Lifestream, that doesn't suddenly fix him, and it isn't implied in the game that it does either. After the Lifestream, story-wise (though, likely for many players, there's tons of side quests and stuff to split it up) it's mostly a hard march through the rest of the story to the conclusion, and Cloud never has time to address the fact that he was a failure, that maybe the only reason he had the power to defeat Sephiroth was because of the experimenting that was done to him by Hojo, and having spent so much time living a lie. That's bound to lead to some heavy self doubt, on top of the profound amount of PTSD that would come from his whole life post Nibelheim.

    It's fair enough if people didn't like AC or the other post-VII content; much of it is stuff that, if you take VII on its own, doesn't seem to fit or is even necessary. I don't particularly care about all the deepground stuff or genesis, etc. However, I have to accept that Nomura clearly did, and is why they made all of it. I have to assume, too, that given the relative consistency of the VII characters in all the extra media and games, that some of the perception of them in VII proper is due to limitations of technology in their presentation; because as soon as they had the tools to present them in a more cinematic manner, they've been the same that we've seen since. And, VII:R just hammers that in all the more.

    Also, I don't know why AC would have needed to focus on the characters more, when every character arc, within the context of the base game, aside from Cloud and possibly Tifa (if only because she had so little character to begin with), was already concluded by the end of VII, assuming you did the side stuff.

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Rockin' ShoujoRegistered User regular
    Almost no one played it, but it's worth noting that when Cloud shows up at the end of DoC, he's a completely different person, without any dead weight or pessimism. He's finally let it all go.

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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    and everything post Lifestream is cold and distant.

    Dude, what? He's not cold and distant at all. After the Lifestream he has the big speech where he explains everything to everyone and gives an apology to the party for what happened. There's a bunch of dialogue where he talks about Aeris and her death and her memory. The whole big speech where he tells the rest of the party to make sure they know what they're fighting for, laying out his own feelings and motivations in plain terms, is post-Lifestream. If you made the right choices, him and Tifa have that moment under the Highwind. He's thankful and happy when all the rest of the party comes back before the final battle. He's super open about his thoughts and emotions in dialogue post-Lifestream. He's the opposite of cold and distant.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Yeah, post-Lifestream Cloud is when he stops being the cold, calculating SOLDIER and becomes the mesh of the person he was plus all the things he's experienced. Old Cloud is condescending and derisive but takes charge because he's surrounded by amateurs and doesn't want them getting him killed; New Cloud is cooperative and enthusiastic and takes the lead because because he relies on them and doesn't want them to die. He fires off compliments to random crew on the Highwind, and overall is the leader the group has been wanting, albeit somewhat goofy and not always perfectly eloquent. He actually fits leading a bunch of amateurish AVALANCHE folks because he's an amateur at this point too, he's just actually acknowledging it now.

    Which is why it's dumb that Cloud seems to be right back to pre-Lifestream Cloud for Advent Children. What was the point of going through all his memories and helping him get back in working order if he just runs off and goes back to Old Cloud for unfathomable story reasons?

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Yeah I was gonna say, post-lifestream is when Cloud finally breaks down the cold and distant coolguy persona that he had constructed around himself as part of his PTSD response to the things that happened to him in Nibelheim and afterwards, and starts trying to embrace his real, cheerful, dumbass loser self again. This isn't even subtext, it's just text, it's what the whole lifestream sequence with reconstructing his memories is about, reconstructing the real Cloud who had been buried in his psyche, the person Tifa remembered from their childhood, the small voice in the back of his mind that had been supporting him occasionally in quiet moments through the game up to that point.

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  • Andy JoeAndy Joe The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    To say that Cloud's real self is "cheerful" is a huge overstatement.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    It's also making the mistake of assuming, "depression is solved forever after catharsis!" Which, hey guess what? It's not.

    And I get it, no one wants heroes moping all the time. But I'm charitable to AC Cloud because the memes of emo sad boi are really overdone compared with A: the actual fucking trauma he goes through in FF7, B: him dealing with and putting the past behind him in a way that's just not possible in FF7 due to the plot being an ongoing crisis. Which leaves him no time to process and grieve.

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