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[MENA] The Middle East and North Africa
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It only exists as a pipe dream(Israeli is never going back to the 67 boarder) and a fig leaf(as long as the Palestinians are in their "own" country, Israel has far wider latitude to be awful)
My view is that, rather than immediately ending aid, the US should use its military aid as leverage: "end settlement construction immediately and permanently or no more military aid." If the Israelis cave, the aid can be used to pressure them into further concessions, aimed ending the apartheid system. If they instead continue the ethnic cleansing, end aid and consider further economic and diplomatic pressure (e.g. UN Security Council resolutions).
Of course, this would require a world where the US government was controlled by people who care about stuff like ethnic cleansing and apartheid, so it seems unlikely at this current juncture. I mean they were just told about it and both parties yelled "SHUT UP" in unison. Hence why I support BDS; the US government is unshakable in its support for Israel, so the only way to oppose what's happening is through the actions of independent individuals/organizations.
I’m not sure how. It would mean the end of Israel specifically as an ethnostate sure, but I’m not sure renouncing such an ideological position in favor of a commitment multiracial/multiethnic democracy is going to require the recreation of the state or it’s constituent civic institutions. one need not dissolve the state in order for it to renounce a specific favored ethnic identity for the state and its priorities; Israel can remain intact while recognizing the Palestinians (and any other ethnic group living within its borders) as full citizens and full rights to representation as such.
EDIT: Blargh, juggled too many things at once while trying to type and end up repeating half of my point, rephrased, instead of writing out hte other half. Should make more sense now
You wouldn't literally create a new country but going from an ethnostate to a multiethnic one where the original ethnicity is now a minority would cause a dramatic reshuffling of power. Given their history, I think it's understandable that the Jewish population would be very concerned about this and when you add on that the majority is the people they oppressing I don't see this ever happening.
Then what do we do? We can’t in good conscience continue to abet an apartheid state.
That didn't involve redrawing SA's borders.
Given Israeli settlement expansion I'm not sure what solution you are imagining to this situation that doesn't involve redrawing borders.
I don't think the US should be supporting Israel as it stands and should use that support as leverage for change if possible. The outcome I would expect though is that Israel doesnt budge and the US stops giving them support.
Given the current circumstances, I don't believe a two state solution will happen either, but that seems more plausible and removes some of the issues, the ethnic majority doesn't change in Israel for a example.
Neither would ending the Israeli apartheid
Like aside from Gaza, the current areas where Palestinians have been contained to in the West Bank are surrounded by Israeli territory. They’re practically an archipelago of territory within a sea of the state of Israel
But where do the Palestinians go in a two state solution? Would Israel be willing to give up the settlements it’s taken? Would they allow enough territory to be ceded to establish a Palestinian state that wasn’t enclosed by Israeli borders?
The only other option seems to me to be to evict enough Israeli settlers and do whatever else needs to be done to create two states.
It's up to them. And they should be placed under as much pressure politically and economically as possible until they agree to one or the other.
I don't think either solution is all that realistic or feasible honestly.
Are the Palestine leadership even open to a solution that doesn't have some of the land returning to them or reparations for it regardless of one state or two state?
The support among the Jewish population for a one state solution is nearly non-existent and no parties support it either. A one state solution is essentially a request for the Jewish population to give up Zionism. I just don't see this happening under any circumstances. The two state solution is obviously difficult, but finding a solution to the settlers and land does not require giving up a core piece of the population's identity and it does have support among the population.
Lanz: Yes, Israel would need to give up some or all of the settlements to create a territory for Palestine. I don't see much hope that a two state solution happens, but it seems a lot more likely than one state.
Which obviously doesn't give them the right to be shitty like they have been, but you will never get an agreement that ends Israel as a Jewish state.
Undoing the damage of decades of apartheid government is going to be seen as "screwing over" the side that benefitted from apartheid by that side. Frankly speaking, I don't think the oppressor deserves to have equal say in how reparations and reconciliation are handled.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Ummmmmmm what map of Europe have you been looking at?
This is the internal argument, it doesn't have to make sense.
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/243538/mena-the-middle-east-and-north-africa/p1?new=1