Like, I can get people being stupid enough to admit things among their circle, family and friends alike.
But the notion that some were leading with it as an something they felt was appealing to strangers really ties into how at least some of them legit thought they’d get away with it (due to privilege or a blanket pardon or whatever).
It's not even that they thought they'd 'get away with it', they genuinely didn't think they were doing anything wrong to have to get away with.
They thought they were the Heroic Few that stands up to Injustice and are vindicated in the end, like you see in the movies. I'd bet some aren't just 'wait, we're getting in trouble for this?', but are actually angry that they weren't awarded medals for Fighting For Freedom.
I'm sure plenty if not the vast majority knew what they were doing was illegal, but they are all used to the law not being applied to them and the more fanatical of the group thought they were going to succeed and get pardoned by the new king.
Yes, they are used to breaking the law all the time and the cop tearing up the ticket when he sees their MAGA hat and they make some jokes about minorities together. A lot of these guys are technically first offenders but probably have a long rap sheet of minor crimes that they get let off of because the police/judge could identify with them as a white conservative.
+14
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
So in response to the reports that Taylor-Greene et al helped plan the insurrection AOC called fort them all to be expelled
This predictably led to an 11-post tweetstorm from Taylor-Greene that notably does not dispute that she tried to overthrow the election
Rep. Mo Brooks told me he had "no involvement” in planning the Jan 6 rally but said:
“I don’t know if my staff did.. but if they did I’d be proud of them for helping to put together a rally lawful under the First Amendment at the ellipse to protest voter fraud & election theft."
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
The problem is, the system only works if you have people in power with honor and integrity. If even half of Republicans had the conviction to do the right thing, this wouldn't be an issue. But as we saw with the Bannon vote, it's less than 5%.
Not everyone in the party is a conspirator, but the vast majority of them are willing to support them out of cowardice and/or sell out themselves and their country to retain power, then there's not much that can be done.
And when it's backed by nearly half of the voting population, and a "complicated" media landscape there's no incentive for them to change.
It's a shitty position, but straight up arresting elected legislators was always going to be a hard task.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
+6
Options
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
Trump probably didn't order it directly though. He learned from the mob you don't explicitly ask for illegal acts, you express a desire for something and glare at your lacky/lackies to make the problem go away.
Trump says "Will no one rid me of this turbulent democracy?" and then his subordinates attempted a pathetic and poorly coordinated coup because they're all morons with their own agendas.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
Because the fascist are in charge and while they can just wildly post shit calling for the death of elected officials and threatening extreme organized violence against the government at will, with pictures of guns and the words of Jefferson, doing so in opposition to them gets the Fed's on your door with police doing a no knock raid to kill your ass cause the pillow you were sleeping on looked like a gun.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Very easily. We're talking about the country that said all men are created equal while being a massive slave state.
The US loudly declares itself the leaders of the free world, the shining city on a hill, the greatest country in the world.
Who cares if it's true or not. This is the post-truth world, and I'm not sure it's ever been otherwise.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
I know that's probably a rhetorical question, but the FBI and Secret Service have knocked on forum admins' doors over user posts in the past, due to a mix of their preferring to worry about the wrong side of the spectrum on the one hand and the forum being based in the US on the other. There's a reason a lot of the really dodgy alt-right social network knockoffs prefer running out of places like the Philippines these days.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
I know that's probably a rhetorical question, but the FBI and Secret Service have knocked on forum admins' doors over user posts in the past, due to a mix of their preferring to worry about the wrong side of the spectrum on the one hand and the forum being based in the US on the other. There's a reason a lot of the really dodgy alt-right social network knockoffs prefer running out of places like the Philippines these days.
Yeah, it was rhetorical, I'm obviously not calling for a revolution here. That said, I'm Canadian. My actual, real concern is what knock-on effect political instability to my south is going to cause up here. All I really have the power to do from my vantage point is lament the rank corruption of your social apparatus down there and hope to Doge that you folks sort this shit out like adults before things get any uglier. But that hope is starting to dwindle on my part, if I'm being honest.
I had a nightmare that I was volunteering at a refugee center in the Canadian border town where I live now. Nightmare or premonition? Feels like the jury might still be out on that.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
I know that's probably a rhetorical question, but the FBI and Secret Service have knocked on forum admins' doors over user posts in the past, due to a mix of their preferring to worry about the wrong side of the spectrum on the one hand and the forum being based in the US on the other. There's a reason a lot of the really dodgy alt-right social network knockoffs prefer running out of places like the Philippines these days.
Yeah, it was rhetorical, I'm obviously not calling for a revolution here. That said, I'm Canadian. My actual, real concern is what knock-on effect political instability to my south is going to cause up here. All I really have the power to do from my vantage point is lament the rank corruption of your social apparatus down there and hope to Doge that you folks sort this shit out like adults before things get any uglier. But that hope is starting to dwindle on my part, if I'm being honest.
I had a nightmare that I was volunteering at a refugee center in the Canadian border town where I live now. Nightmare or premonition? Feels like the jury might still be out on that.
Well, we've already got Alberta, where UCP-backed candidates in the recent municipal elections are sticking so closely to the script that they're claiming some of the elections aren't legitimate because they were rigged by leftist voting machines. Despite, y'know, the manner in which we vote here...
I'm honestly stunned the general election didn't lead to the right screaming about fraud, though that might have just been due to the status-quo outcome. If the PM picked up a significant amount of seats I don't know if I'd be willing to place bets on how a third of the country would react.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
We can't pass legislation, so yeah basically.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
Yeah it depends on what your definition of a collapsed/failed state is. At this time the US can pause a backslide, but cannot move forward from one. Which means every time there's a backslide,
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
We can't pass legislation, so yeah basically.
It was touch and go for awhile on the question of whether we should continue to fund the government and pay our bills or just not do that, with an equal number of Senators electing for the latter.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
We can't pass legislation, so yeah basically.
It was touch and go for awhile on the question of whether we should continue to fund the government and pay our bills or just not do that, with an equal number of Senators electing for the latter.
If (...when, honestly) none of these people suffer any consequences for this, I think I'll be at my lowest point for feeling optimistic about this country.
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
No longer? I'd argue that the law has never applied to certain factions in the first place, and therein lies the problem. Accountability and jail time are for the little people.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
I certainly don't know what qualifications the Economist Intelligence Unit have, but in 2017 USA got downgraded from "full democracy" to "flawed democracy" in their Democracy Index report.
According to the report's authors, a flawed democracy has free elections but “weak governance, an underdeveloped political culture and low levels of political participation.” Other countries that share this dubious honor include Italy, Japan, France and India. Rankings are based on a country's electoral process, civil liberties, the functioning of government, political participation and political culture.
That downgrade puts us at 21 in the rankings. Norway, Iceland and Sweden were ranked as the world's most vibrant democracies, followed by New Zealand and Denmark; Canada and Ireland tied for sixth place. Syria and North Korea came, somewhat predictably, in last.
[...]
The United States is in good company. Democracy is looking sickly the world over. The scores of almost half of the world's 167 countries declined between 2006 and 2016, thanks to “the increasing role played by nonelected technocrats, increased voter abstention and curbs on civil liberties.” Just 5 percent of the world's population live in a “full democracy”; 2.6 billion live under authoritarian regimes.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
I certainly don't know what qualifications the Economist Intelligence Unit have, but in 2017 USA got downgraded from "full democracy" to "flawed democracy" in their Democracy Index report.
According to the report's authors, a flawed democracy has free elections but “weak governance, an underdeveloped political culture and low levels of political participation.” Other countries that share this dubious honor include Italy, Japan, France and India. Rankings are based on a country's electoral process, civil liberties, the functioning of government, political participation and political culture.
That downgrade puts us at 21 in the rankings. Norway, Iceland and Sweden were ranked as the world's most vibrant democracies, followed by New Zealand and Denmark; Canada and Ireland tied for sixth place. Syria and North Korea came, somewhat predictably, in last.
[...]
The United States is in good company. Democracy is looking sickly the world over. The scores of almost half of the world's 167 countries declined between 2006 and 2016, thanks to “the increasing role played by nonelected technocrats, increased voter abstention and curbs on civil liberties.” Just 5 percent of the world's population live in a “full democracy”; 2.6 billion live under authoritarian regimes.
Looks like the US goes up and down between full and flawed based on the annual poll of trust in government- the US is more than a standard deviation lower here than every country in the full list and most in the flawed
Also this is a very libertarian report, with the 2020 report basically becoming a giant whinefest about lockdowns, despite the fact that their own methodology assigned the highest “civil liberties” scores to the countries that locked down quickest/hardest (Japan, Canada, most of Scandinavia, New Zealand….)
But it’s free and an interesting read anyway while on the can
Unelected bureaucrats often support democracy by providing stability between transitions for non-political roles.
Also: regulators, health officials
Unelected bureaucrats are good, actually
*Louis DeJoy enters the chat*
I know it's not the same thing, but there's always going to be some level of pressure along the way that influences advancement.
Whether it's nepotism/favouritism/connections, or political/philosophical traits, at some point in the selection process, it's people selecting people, and people are often horrible at assessing things from a purely merit based position.
Unelected bureaucrats often support democracy by providing stability between transitions for non-political roles.
Also: regulators, health officials
Unelected bureaucrats are good, actually
*Louis DeJoy enters the chat*
I know it's not the same thing, but there's always going to be some level of pressure along the way that influences advancement.
Whether it's nepotism/favouritism/connections, or political/philosophical traits, at some point in the selection process, it's people selecting people, and people are often horrible at assessing things from a purely merit based position.
It might be better to say "Career" bureaucrats than unelected ones.
Unelected bureaucrats often support democracy by providing stability between transitions for non-political roles.
Also: regulators, health officials
Unelected bureaucrats are good, actually
*Louis DeJoy enters the chat*
I know it's not the same thing, but there's always going to be some level of pressure along the way that influences advancement.
Whether it's nepotism/favouritism/connections, or political/philosophical traits, at some point in the selection process, it's people selecting people, and people are often horrible at assessing things from a purely merit based position.
It might be better to say "Career" bureaucrats than unelected ones.
Agreed. But even there, there's usually a tendency to self-select for certain traits/philosophies, and that certain types are going to aggressively pursue advancement. There's no infallible system, because people, especially those that seek out positions that will make the advancement decision, is inherently flawed.
That's not taking into account at some point in the process, either an elected or appointed position is making a decision that influences things.
And the previous Administration (emulating Nixon) showed that you can just keep firing people until someone is put into the right position to make decisions.
A lot is made of the DOJ stumping Trump by threatening a mass resignation, and all that tells me is that it shoes Trump's short-sightedness of leaving things until the last moment. If he'd started firing people to put sycophants in place three years ago over the remaining half of the term, he might have gotten what he wanted.
Tucker Carlson has decided to go full fascist, Alex Jones and is releasing a 3 part "documentary" called Patriot Purge that contends among other things:
claims the 6 January insurrection at the US Capitol was a “false flag” attack – and that Joe Biden and the Democrats are mounting a shadowy campaign to round up right-wing American “patriots”.
“The left is hunting the right,” says one of the featured guests, presumably describing the arrest and charging of more than 600 people identified on video footage from 6 January, “sticking them in Guantanamo Bay for American citizens, leaving them there to rot”.
The clip concludes with a claim that the riot may have been a “false flag” operation as military helicopters take off in front of the US Capitol – evoking the “black helicopters” conspiracy theory shared by anti-government groups in the 1990s in particular.
Mr Carlson says in the clip, “the helicopters have left Afghanistan, and now they’ve landed here at home.”
This sounds really fucking bad, and from the trailer alone, is basically straight up war incitement. I can't believe Fox News, who is already staring down a nasty lawsuit from Dominion, is going to allow this on air.
Tucker Carlson has decided to go full fascist, Alex Jones and is releasing a 3 part "documentary" called Patriot Purge that contends among other things:
claims the 6 January insurrection at the US Capitol was a “false flag” attack – and that Joe Biden and the Democrats are mounting a shadowy campaign to round up right-wing American “patriots”.
“The left is hunting the right,” says one of the featured guests, presumably describing the arrest and charging of more than 600 people identified on video footage from 6 January, “sticking them in Guantanamo Bay for American citizens, leaving them there to rot”.
The clip concludes with a claim that the riot may have been a “false flag” operation as military helicopters take off in front of the US Capitol – evoking the “black helicopters” conspiracy theory shared by anti-government groups in the 1990s in particular.
Mr Carlson says in the clip, “the helicopters have left Afghanistan, and now they’ve landed here at home.”
This sounds really fucking bad, and from the trailer alone, is basically straight up war incitement. I can't believe Fox News, who is already staring down a nasty lawsuit from Dominion, is going allow this on air.
I can. There’s no one to sue them in this case, and if the government tries to do anything about it in regards to incitement or anything like that, well, then they just proved Tucker’s point for him to his fans.
Posts
I'm pretty sure it was at least two cases of these geniuses.
I'm sure plenty if not the vast majority knew what they were doing was illegal, but they are all used to the law not being applied to them and the more fanatical of the group thought they were going to succeed and get pardoned by the new king.
This predictably led to an 11-post tweetstorm from Taylor-Greene that notably does not dispute that she tried to overthrow the election
These fuckin' people
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It is unfathomable to me that so many in congress actively aided an insurrection and just get to keep on doing what they do because we dont want to...I dont even know. Look mean?
I think it's about conservative power. We can't punish these people because they ARE the machinery of punishment: the police, the judges, the prison guards. There's a high possibility that if we found complete proof that Trump ordered and planned it and intended a coup, the police would refuse to arrest him, the judge would not try him, and if found guilty, the prison guards would not imprison him.
The problem is, the system only works if you have people in power with honor and integrity. If even half of Republicans had the conviction to do the right thing, this wouldn't be an issue. But as we saw with the Bannon vote, it's less than 5%.
Not everyone in the party is a conspirator, but the vast majority of them are willing to support them out of cowardice and/or sell out themselves and their country to retain power, then there's not much that can be done.
And when it's backed by nearly half of the voting population, and a "complicated" media landscape there's no incentive for them to change.
It's a shitty position, but straight up arresting elected legislators was always going to be a hard task.
I believe you. And that means that the rule of law no longer applies to (one faction of, at least) the governing members of your country. This leaves a pretty glaring question in my mind: can a government be called legitimate when no mechanism for impartial accountability can be allowed to exist? How can you call yourselves a legitimate democracy under the rule of law when criminals who blatantly flout said law are allowed to handle the reigns of power without consequence?
Saying we aren't would mean that we need to [redacted by forum decree]
Basically all discussion here exists under the understanding that we cannot actually address what's really happening because the implications of what's happening really shouldn't be discussed on this or any publicly indexed forum, or the internet in general.
Trump probably didn't order it directly though. He learned from the mob you don't explicitly ask for illegal acts, you express a desire for something and glare at your lacky/lackies to make the problem go away.
Trump says "Will no one rid me of this turbulent democracy?" and then his subordinates attempted a pathetic and poorly coordinated coup because they're all morons with their own agendas.
My knee-jerk reaction to this is "why not? That's how the fascist morons did it, and they don't seem to be suffering too much for it". I swear, being reasonable, compassionate, considerate and intelligent feels like a real handicap sometimes.
The original fascists were fucking morons, too. Yeah, wars going OK, let's shake it up a bit by backstabbing Russia.
Because the fascist are in charge and while they can just wildly post shit calling for the death of elected officials and threatening extreme organized violence against the government at will, with pictures of guns and the words of Jefferson, doing so in opposition to them gets the Fed's on your door with police doing a no knock raid to kill your ass cause the pillow you were sleeping on looked like a gun.
Very easily. We're talking about the country that said all men are created equal while being a massive slave state.
The US loudly declares itself the leaders of the free world, the shining city on a hill, the greatest country in the world.
Who cares if it's true or not. This is the post-truth world, and I'm not sure it's ever been otherwise.
I know that's probably a rhetorical question, but the FBI and Secret Service have knocked on forum admins' doors over user posts in the past, due to a mix of their preferring to worry about the wrong side of the spectrum on the one hand and the forum being based in the US on the other. There's a reason a lot of the really dodgy alt-right social network knockoffs prefer running out of places like the Philippines these days.
Yeah, it was rhetorical, I'm obviously not calling for a revolution here. That said, I'm Canadian. My actual, real concern is what knock-on effect political instability to my south is going to cause up here. All I really have the power to do from my vantage point is lament the rank corruption of your social apparatus down there and hope to Doge that you folks sort this shit out like adults before things get any uglier. But that hope is starting to dwindle on my part, if I'm being honest.
I had a nightmare that I was volunteering at a refugee center in the Canadian border town where I live now. Nightmare or premonition? Feels like the jury might still be out on that.
Well, we've already got Alberta, where UCP-backed candidates in the recent municipal elections are sticking so closely to the script that they're claiming some of the elections aren't legitimate because they were rigged by leftist voting machines. Despite, y'know, the manner in which we vote here...
I'm honestly stunned the general election didn't lead to the right screaming about fraud, though that might have just been due to the status-quo outcome. If the PM picked up a significant amount of seats I don't know if I'd be willing to place bets on how a third of the country would react.
By that metric it sounds like the United States has already collapsed and just hasn't realized it yet.
We can't pass legislation, so yeah basically.
I mean...
It was touch and go for awhile on the question of whether we should continue to fund the government and pay our bills or just not do that, with an equal number of Senators electing for the latter.
Every couple years!
No longer? I'd argue that the law has never applied to certain factions in the first place, and therein lies the problem. Accountability and jail time are for the little people.
I certainly don't know what qualifications the Economist Intelligence Unit have, but in 2017 USA got downgraded from "full democracy" to "flawed democracy" in their Democracy Index report.
Looks like the US goes up and down between full and flawed based on the annual poll of trust in government- the US is more than a standard deviation lower here than every country in the full list and most in the flawed
Also this is a very libertarian report, with the 2020 report basically becoming a giant whinefest about lockdowns, despite the fact that their own methodology assigned the highest “civil liberties” scores to the countries that locked down quickest/hardest (Japan, Canada, most of Scandinavia, New Zealand….)
But it’s free and an interesting read anyway while on the can
Also: regulators, health officials
Unelected bureaucrats are good, actually
...in a functioning democracy.
There are definitely times it's a problem but they basically aren't in any way related to what the seditious idiots have been complaining about.
*Louis DeJoy enters the chat*
I know it's not the same thing, but there's always going to be some level of pressure along the way that influences advancement.
Whether it's nepotism/favouritism/connections, or political/philosophical traits, at some point in the selection process, it's people selecting people, and people are often horrible at assessing things from a purely merit based position.
It might be better to say "Career" bureaucrats than unelected ones.
Agreed. But even there, there's usually a tendency to self-select for certain traits/philosophies, and that certain types are going to aggressively pursue advancement. There's no infallible system, because people, especially those that seek out positions that will make the advancement decision, is inherently flawed.
That's not taking into account at some point in the process, either an elected or appointed position is making a decision that influences things.
And the previous Administration (emulating Nixon) showed that you can just keep firing people until someone is put into the right position to make decisions.
A lot is made of the DOJ stumping Trump by threatening a mass resignation, and all that tells me is that it shoes Trump's short-sightedness of leaving things until the last moment. If he'd started firing people to put sycophants in place three years ago over the remaining half of the term, he might have gotten what he wanted.
This sounds really fucking bad, and from the trailer alone, is basically straight up war incitement. I can't believe Fox News, who is already staring down a nasty lawsuit from Dominion, is going to allow this on air.