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[Starfield] Like Oblivion with space ships

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Yeah the thing is there’s loads of rich and detailed environments shown, but they did open with the combat area in a fairly standard sci fi rock world. Which is fine for in game, rock worlds are bread and butter! But if you wanna wow maybe show off the cities more

    Also confirmed a voiceless protagonist, praise the gods! I didn’t hate it as much as others in fallout 4 but it unquestionably meant less mission choice and less ability to roleplay, I hope they keep it ditched for elder scrolls 6

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    I think my problem is not even with the rocks/biomes (although it's funny that they opened on a rocky wasteland), it's that all the colors feel a bit too washed-out for my taste. I'd love for my space advente filled with wonder to have actual white and vibrant colors in it. It's like the green Fallout 3 filter, just grey. Given that the game is probably almost a year away, who knows if that's final (probably trivial to change, too).

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    M-VickersM-Vickers Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Yeah the thing is there’s loads of rich and detailed environments shown, but they did open with the combat area in a fairly standard sci fi rock world. Which is fine for in game, rock worlds are bread and butter! But if you wanna wow maybe show off the cities more

    Also confirmed a voiceless protagonist, praise the gods! I didn’t hate it as much as others in fallout 4 but it unquestionably meant less mission choice and less ability to roleplay, I hope they keep it ditched for elder scrolls 6

    There was a montage at the end, showing a selection of places.

    We have almost a year to wait, assuming no more delays, so I imagine there's more to come.

    I think I'll try to avoid any story stuff. I'd like to know about the skills and perks, etc, but I don't need to see more about the places we'll be going.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Bethesda on twitter has confirmed there will be a silent protagonist.

    Can't tell you how happy this actually makes me. It makes a huge difference for roleplaying a ton of different characters (compared to how almost every one in Fallout 4 just felt so samey), especially when we'll now probably go back to a much wider array of dialog choices. Conversations will actually be fun again.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Well, that's disappointing but not surprising. Not a big fan of silent protags.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Well, that's disappointing but not surprising. Not a big fan of silent protags.

    Yeah I dislike when like people talk at my character, but my character doesn't speak back. Like its one of the more jarring things about playing da origins versus the later entries

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Preacher wrote: »
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont
    Its kind of fine depending on how you look at or play these games. In stuff like Bethesda's where a large part of it can be carving out your own story and style, I desire a lot of ownership over my characters in an RPG like this.

    Every character just feels like the same person in Fallout 4, Bethesda's character. The goofy vault dad that still sounds way too nice or jokey no matter what he says. That and the oversimplified dialog choices just killed some of the best parts of Fallout 3 and NV for me.

    They never really felt like mine in 4. Like I was just allowed to make some small tweaks here and there.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont
    Its kind of fine depending on how you look at or play these games. In stuff like Bethesda's where a large part of it can be carving out your own story and style, I desire a lot of ownership over my characters in an RPG like this.

    Every character just feels like the same person in Fallout 4, Bethesda's character. The goofy vault dad that still sounds way too nice or jokey no matter what he says. That and the oversimplified dialog choices just killed some of the best parts of Fallout 3 and NV for me.

    They never really felt like mine in 4.

    But I don't think thats a result of a voiced character is my problem. Like mass effect has voiced characters and I don't think the dialogue suffers from it.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont
    Its kind of fine depending on how you look at or play these games. In stuff like Bethesda's where a large part of it can be carving out your own story and style, I desire a lot of ownership over my characters in an RPG like this.

    Every character just feels like the same person in Fallout 4, Bethesda's character. The goofy vault dad that still sounds way too nice or jokey no matter what he says. That and the oversimplified dialog choices just killed some of the best parts of Fallout 3 and NV for me.

    They never really felt like mine in 4.

    But I don't think thats a result of a voiced character is my problem. Like mass effect has voiced characters and I don't think the dialogue suffers from it.

    No, but your choices are good or badass but ultimately doing good. The dialogue doesn't have to be extensive to cope with things you cannot substantially change, and where you can, that stuff is thinly written because they don't want to accommodate/pay for things that not everyone is gonna see..

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Preacher wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont
    Its kind of fine depending on how you look at or play these games. In stuff like Bethesda's where a large part of it can be carving out your own story and style, I desire a lot of ownership over my characters in an RPG like this.

    Every character just feels like the same person in Fallout 4, Bethesda's character. The goofy vault dad that still sounds way too nice or jokey no matter what he says. That and the oversimplified dialog choices just killed some of the best parts of Fallout 3 and NV for me.

    They never really felt like mine in 4.

    But I don't think thats a result of a voiced character is my problem.
    Like I said, I think it takes away a lot of ownership and makes the characters feel and sound samey.
    Like mass effect has voiced characters and I don't think the dialogue suffers from it.
    Mass Effect was a very different kind of RPG from the start though. Its a more linear focused game where the focus was never on wildly different or open choices. Shepherd was made to be customized not created from the ground up, I'm fine with that.

    Fallout isn't Mass Effect though and I think it creates a lot of problems and makes Bethesda games much simpler when they try to blend it in like that.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I actually like voiced protags, but I get for beth games most people dont
    Its kind of fine depending on how you look at or play these games. In stuff like Bethesda's where a large part of it can be carving out your own story and style, I desire a lot of ownership over my characters in an RPG like this.

    Every character just feels like the same person in Fallout 4, Bethesda's character. The goofy vault dad that still sounds way too nice or jokey no matter what he says. That and the oversimplified dialog choices just killed some of the best parts of Fallout 3 and NV for me.

    They never really felt like mine in 4.

    But I don't think thats a result of a voiced character is my problem. Like mass effect has voiced characters and I don't think the dialogue suffers from it.

    No, but your choices are good or badass but ultimately doing good. The dialogue doesn't have to be extensive to cope with things you cannot substantially change, and where you can, that stuff is thinly written because they don't want to accommodate/pay for things that not everyone is gonna see..

    I guess I don't remember skyrim having that much more choice is my issue. And like the NPCS dialogue is voiced, so it always feels jarring when the PC isn't.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    I just always feel like I'm listening to half a conversation and mentally filling in the other half and it bothers me a bit.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I just always feel like I'm listening to half a conversation and mentally filling in the other half and it bothers me a bit.
    I'm the exact opposite myself.

    I feel much more involved in the dialog versus listening to two characters carrying on a conversation without me aside from pointing them in one of four directions sometimes.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I just always feel like I'm listening to half a conversation and mentally filling in the other half and it bothers me a bit.
    I'm the exact opposite myself.

    I feel much more involved in the dialog versus listening to two characters carrying on a conversation without me aside from pointing them in one of four directions sometimes.

    I just don't see how that's any different than selecting a text option other than not hearing your side of the conversation. But its a moot point you get what you want from starfield and it won't keep me from playing.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Not my own idea but thread title should be "No Man's Skyrim"

    Or wait, is the current title referencing the Cruise film...

    rahkeesh2000 on
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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Bethesda introduced VATS becuase they wanted to help people who weren't good with gunplay, wondering if they'll do something like slow mo in Outer Worlds for Starfield since I doubt they just straight up lift from Fallout (probably don't want them to feel too similar).

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    It comes down to the options it gives them to do different things with the dialogue. Not to mention that when you add a voice to a protagonist they will always sound like the voice, and that creates a character that ends up limiting not just how you think about your role, but how you respond to other characters, you end up playing to the voice.

    Not to mention by saving on player character dialogue recording time it opens up resources for more branching choices in dialogue. It’s not a garauntee, but it becomes way easier to do. If you write a game knowing it will be voiced vs silent, even unintentionally it changes how dialogue is written

    It becomes easier to justify extra dialogue or responses if you only have to record responses. It’s not an off or on switch, but it opens up opportunities you don’t get if you have a voiced protagonist

    It’s not that one or the other is better, it just achieves different things. If your game has a general archetype like Shepard a voice works, but for games like elderscrolls and fallout I prefer a more open and blank slate to work from, which allows me to not only imagine my character more flexibly for roleplay, but focus on the rest of the cast and characters you meet, who the devs can approach with more freedom in how they craft dialogue trees, not just cos of freed up resources, but you aren’t fixed to a specific tone, even unconsciously. There becomes less of an emphasis on what can feel like the “intended” vibe of the character, even if the voice actor records lines that differ, like good/evil, their voice and tone usually limits the kind of character they can be more than a written line of dialogue

    You’re right that Skyrim and fallout 3 weren’t necessarily vastly more complex in terms of options, but what they did by having a voiceless protag was allow people space to roleplay and so they “felt” more open ended.

    Ultimately it comes down to what the game is focussing on, the protagonist or the cast. By having a voiceless protag the cast gets more room and stands out more, and I think with bethesdas game structure that works better than a focus on the protagonist and their presence. It makes hopping from story to story, setting to setting, more natural, when you can feel like you just pick up where each npc is and meet them there, rather than having half the voices kind of imposing and carrying that baggage.

    For instance the reason I think it worked so well with Skyrim is that I like the feeling that I can like walk into the mages guild and not feel like my guy is necessarily the same as the guy who just did the fighters guild quest, and having a silent protag helps that disconnect you get. Like in fallout 4 it felt so strange to just join up with npcs and do their quests, when my guy was so clearly the father of a kidnapped child who needed rescuing, and his voice and tone reflected that more than simple lines of dialogue written down would. Even though it seems like there shouldn’t be a difference, it has an impact

    Prohass on
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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    So, it looks like the factions are:
    • Rebellious Academics
    • Bureaucratic Cops
    • Space Knights
    • Super-evil Murder-loving Pirates

    When you join a faction, they comment on your character's background. This could lead to some funny combinations, like being a cop gangster or a pirate diplomat.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    SPACE KNIGHT

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    My hope is that there are good/evil paths within each faction. I hate the idea of evil and good factions. Let me steer the space pirates into a Robin Hood direction!

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Not my own idea but thread title should be "No Man's Skyrim"

    Or wait, is the current title referencing the Cruise film...

    Planetfallout
    The City on the Edge of Tomorrowind

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    CruorCruor Registered User regular
    I think my biggest problem with the voiced protag in Fallout 4 was that the options you selected didn't always line up with what they ultimately said. There were more than a few times that I picked an option that looked good written out, but the voice line was embellished or delivered in such a way that it ENTIRELY changed how the line came off. It was jarring and led to me not feeling like I was playing the character I had intended to play.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Cruor wrote: »
    I think my biggest problem with the voiced protag in Fallout 4 was that the options you selected didn't always line up with what they ultimately said. There were more than a few times that I picked an option that looked good written out, but the voice line was embellished or delivered in such a way that it ENTIRELY changed how the line came off. It was jarring and led to me not feeling like I was playing the character I had intended to play.

    My main problem with it was there was lots of dialogue I couldn’t chose and my character just said, particularly at the start, because he was an existing person with thoughts and feelings, they were already established and would often have opening dialogue you had no choice but to speak. and that’s fine! It works great in many game types! But my ideal Bethesda game is one where I can kind of wander around and immerse myself in other characters stories without worrying too much about my own character beyond roleplaying what I choose to be their past.

    In fallout 4 it wasn’t just that your character had a written role, it’s that the PCs voice reminded you of that role and reinforced it every time you heard it. It’s not just that your character is voiced, it’s that they have a voice. And that will always be present, and that’s fine! I just prefer my Bethesda games to have my character fade into the background and let the world and it’s cast be paramount, and that can be difficult if your character is too “prevalent”, which they tend to end up being with a voice, just because once you have a voice writers tend to write knowing that, and will fill in details with that voice that can’t be ignored or role played around.

    For the kind of gameplay and storytelling structure Bethesda games usually are best at, I just feel that voiceless protag makes the most sense and creates the least amount of friction between the player and the world, and encourages better narrative instincts that feel more satisfying with the game world. In a game where I can wander off and join up with pirates or pick flowers and ignore the dragon apocalypse it just feels like a voiceless protag makes that whole experience feel smoother and less chafing

    Prohass on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    I don't have too strong feelings about the voiced protag in F4 tbh. I liked that they tried it. What bothered me more - and that ties in with what some of you dislike about being voiced! - is that my character had to be a parent looking for their child. Just like looking for daddy in Fallout 3, that is already more authorship over my character than I would like the game / main story to have. TES games do it right I think. You're a prisoner, something something prophecy. Broad enough.

    Which I think is something that Bethesda games get knocked for, their main storylines being too broad, too generic - but when they try to change that a bit, you get Fallout 4. Damned if you do, etc. I definitely prefer my chars to blank slates that I get to fill, and voice in my head.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    That's why the set up in Vegas was so good, you had a past you prior to being shot in the head, but then the player gets to make their own choices because they literally got shot in the head!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Also most of the dialogue options in 4 not only say the same thing but lead to the exact same result.

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Bethesda introduced VATS becuase they wanted to help people who weren't good with gunplay, wondering if they'll do something like slow mo in Outer Worlds for Starfield since I doubt they just straight up lift from Fallout (probably don't want them to feel too similar).

    V.A.T.S. was also meant to provide a sort of compromise for players who wanted turn-based, stat-determined combat like in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

    Starfield being a new IP and not having the expectations that come with legacy may not need any sort of equivalent.
    el_vicio wrote: »
    I don't have too strong feelings about the voiced protag in F4 tbh. I liked that they tried it. What bothered me more - and that ties in with what some of you dislike about being voiced! - is that my character had to be a parent looking for their child. Just like looking for daddy in Fallout 3, that is already more authorship over my character than I would like the game / main story to have. TES games do it right I think. You're a prisoner, something something prophecy. Broad enough.

    Which I think is something that Bethesda games get knocked for, their main storylines being too broad, too generic - but when they try to change that a bit, you get Fallout 4. Damned if you do, etc. I definitely prefer my chars to blank slates that I get to fill, and voice in my head.

    I think Bethesda felt more comfortable doing this with Fallout because the player character has always had a pre-established backstory and starting objective in that series. In Fallout 1, you're a vault dweller looking for a water chip. In Fallout 2, you're a tribal looking for a G.E.C.K. And in both those games, while you're in the process of accomplishing those initial tasks, you discover another problem with a much larger scope.

    I think the key difference is that, in the older games, the water chip and the G.E.C.K. had only tangental relevance to the true conflict of the narrative that you didn't discover until later. But in the Bethesda games, your missing dad and your missing son continue to play important supporting roles throughout the entire adventure.

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    JusticeJustice Registered User regular
    Am I the only person who mutes voices and music the moment the menu pops up on a new start? Maybe it's because I play on console, but it's always felt very "reading over my shoulder" / "making you listen to my book" to me. Expanded rp/dialogue options are a cherry on top, for me.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Justice wrote: »
    Am I the only person who mutes voices and music the moment the menu pops up on a new start? Maybe it's because I play on console, but it's always felt very "reading over my shoulder" / "making you listen to my book" to me. Expanded rp/dialogue options are a cherry on top, for me.

    The first thing I do is turn off every subtitle possible on a game because I haaaattee subtitles haha.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Sadly as I've gotten older I need subtitles do to not always hearing shit because people FUCKING MUMBLE!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The music is really good sometimes though!

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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Sadly as I've gotten older I need subtitles do to not always hearing shit because people FUCKING MUMBLE!

    That or movies where the sound mixing is horrible and voices sound like talking through a can with wires.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I always have them on because I don't want to miss a thing ambient dialogue

    the downside is that I read the subtitles way faster than voiced dialogue is delivered, and that can ruin the experience a bit

    el_vicio on
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    CruorCruor Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    I always have them on because I don't want to miss a thing ambient dialogue

    the downside is that I read the subtitles way faster than voiced dialogue is delivered, and that can ruin the experience a bit

    This gets especially bad with comedic lines. Nothing worse than reading the punchline right as (or even before!) the set-up line(s).

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I am hard of hearing, so I almost always have subtitles on

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Bethesda games have some astoundingly excellent music, I can't imagine turning it off, ever. In fact, even in the Fallout games, I almost never use radio stations. I realize for some that's the vibe they want, the retro-future vibe and the songs work for them.

    But me, I'll take the composed music for their games. Makes it a million times immersive to me, and never gets old, in any of them. Just A++ stuff all around.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Bethesda games have some astoundingly excellent music, I can't imagine turning it off, ever. In fact, even in the Fallout games, I almost never use radio stations. I realize for some that's the vibe they want, the retro-future vibe and the songs work for them.

    But me, I'll take the composed music for their games. Makes it a million times immersive to me, and never gets old, in any of them. Just A++ stuff all around.

    Have they mentioned who's doing the music? I agree with you, I think Soule's Skyrim soundtrack was absolutely key for the sense of wonder and adventure I had

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I am hard of hearing, so I almost always have subtitles on

    Low range hearing loss and tinnitus.

    Even with headphones on, I have subtitles on.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bethesda games have some astoundingly excellent music, I can't imagine turning it off, ever. In fact, even in the Fallout games, I almost never use radio stations. I realize for some that's the vibe they want, the retro-future vibe and the songs work for them.

    But me, I'll take the composed music for their games. Makes it a million times immersive to me, and never gets old, in any of them. Just A++ stuff all around.

    Have they mentioned who's doing the music? I agree with you, I think Soule's Skyrim soundtrack was absolutely key for the sense of wonder and adventure I had

    Best I can tell it's Inon Zur, who did FO76, FO4, FO:NV, DA:O, DA2, along with numerous non-Bethesda games that had some (imo, obviously) excellent soundtracks like the Prince of Persia games.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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