I'm happy Metroid Dread came out recognized for something. I was hoping it would win best game, but I played It Takes Two coop and that game is a masterpiece so I'm not bitter at all it won.
I’ve been pretty slow about playing Dread since I’ve been so busy with work but now that I’ve played through most of the EMMI segments I can safely say I hate those part of the games. They’re not fun. Metroid stealth/running segments were done best during the Zero Suit portion of Zero Mission. But that should have been the end of it. I hope they retire the idea going forward.
I’ve been pretty slow about playing Dread since I’ve been so busy with work but now that I’ve played through most of the EMMI segments I can safely say I hate those part of the games. They’re not fun. Metroid stealth/running segments were done best during the Zero Suit portion of Zero Mission. But that should have been the end of it. I hope they retire the idea going forward.
I’ve been pretty slow about playing Dread since I’ve been so busy with work but now that I’ve played through most of the EMMI segments I can safely say I hate those part of the games. They’re not fun. Metroid stealth/running segments were done best during the Zero Suit portion of Zero Mission. But that should have been the end of it. I hope they retire the idea going forward.
I’ve been pretty slow about playing Dread since I’ve been so busy with work but now that I’ve played through most of the EMMI segments I can safely say I hate those part of the games. They’re not fun. Metroid stealth/running segments were done best during the Zero Suit portion of Zero Mission. But that should have been the end of it. I hope they retire the idea going forward.
I don't know that I hate the EMMI sections but they are definitely my least enjoyed part of the game and hope they don't retread that ground in the future. It was fine for one game but I wouldn't want to do it again.
I’ve been pretty slow about playing Dread since I’ve been so busy with work but now that I’ve played through most of the EMMI segments I can safely say I hate those part of the games. They’re not fun. Metroid stealth/running segments were done best during the Zero Suit portion of Zero Mission. But that should have been the end of it. I hope they retire the idea going forward.
I don't know that I hate the EMMI sections but they are definitely my least enjoyed part of the game and hope they don't retread that ground in the future. It was fine for one game but I wouldn't want to do it again.
I enjoyed them until the late game ones in which I'm not allowed to breathe or the bots will hear it.
Enlightenment is understanding that the EMMI areas aren't stealth segments.
(Pre-emptive response to request for clarification: there is almost no need to break your stride in an EMMI zone, and it's more important that you stay out of their direct detection radius than avoid being perceived by the thing at all. Compared to, say, the Hyrule Castle Garden in Ocarina of Time, where the two states are "undetected" and "failure", in the EMMI zone you are almost always being "chased" and "hiding" is just a stalling action on the way to being caught. You will have far more fun with them if you treat them more as speedruns than stealth segments the way the game encourages you to.)
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that's fine and well and good for playthroughs after the first, but the initial way people encounter it, with no way of knowing what the path through the maze is, turn it into a stealth sequence. That's like saying metal gear solid games aren't stealth games if you know exactly where to go to dodge all the guards at full speed.
Sometimes shine spark puzzles are frustrating. They're challenging and expect a lot out of you but when I pull it off I think about how satisfying it was. Instead when I finally kill an EMMI I think "thank god I never have to do that again." That's how I know I wasn't having fun. They really make the title what it is... I dread playing that shit.
I think the one-shot kills were actually a bad choice, because it encourages a moment of near resignation as you sit through the cutscene and vainly try to hit a counter. Getting caught by SA-X or even the Zebsians was more intense because you could keep trying to frantically run away (often uselessly into dead-ends) while they hit you hard in the back. It seems like Nemesis and Mr. X had some similar feature. As long as red mode blocks you from exiting, I would rather the EMMI be balanced around getting in multiple hits (including potential ranged ones) as upping the fear factor, and putting a bit more emphasis on trying to lose the thing rather than perfect hiding.
i found the first EMMI very frustrating and annoying but i've just beaten the second and now that i know how it goes it wasn't much of a bother
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
i found the first EMMI very frustrating and annoying but i've just beaten the second and now that i know how it goes it wasn't much of a bother
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
As I was playing it I probably would have disagreed with this, but now with some time to reflect, I think you’re right. I LOVED Dread, but looking at it objectively, the EMMI sections were probably the weakest aspect of the game. They weren’t bad really, just kind of unnecessary. Unlike the joy of exploring, or figuring out a difficult item puzzle or learning a boss weakness, the EMMI sections felt like a chore. Any time I started a new one, I only wanted to find the Omega Cannon as fast as possible so they were no longer a nuisance in that area.
I liked the idea of them and that the game went for something different. Just something about their execution was off.
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I think it is telling that the EMMI stuff is probably a leading reason why the game got shelved for so long. Nintendo couldn't figure out how to make it work. The contained areas, which make NO sense narratively, act as a way to isolate the RE3/SA-X hunted sections from the rest of the game. I think that they are more signs that the game was rushed. Like... The camo doesn't really do a ton for you outside of a few doors and praying the EMMI don't bump into you. If it had more 8mpact, like on confusing bosses or the like, it would have been so much better.
i found the first EMMI very frustrating and annoying but i've just beaten the second and now that i know how it goes it wasn't much of a bother
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
I think if you didn't lose your map when dying to an EMMI it would have been a lot better. So you could check your map and plan a new route. It would have maintained some of that feeling of exploration and made the EMMI zones less of a chore.
i found the first EMMI very frustrating and annoying but i've just beaten the second and now that i know how it goes it wasn't much of a bother
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
I think if you didn't lose your map when dying to an EMMI it would have been a lot better. So you could check your map and plan a new route. It would have maintained some of that feeling of exploration and made the EMMI zones less of a chore.
Building on this, it would be pretty cool if they leaned further into the stealth aspect of those sections. Why not have a camera system you can hack into to get a layout of the area before going in and see where the EMMI might be hiding? Or more pathways to use your Morph Ball to sneak around in. More objects you can interact with that make noise to lure the EMMI away.
That sort of stuff.
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There is definitely a lot of room to build on the EMMI concept. This is actually where Nintendo's design habits could come in handy. Outside of the scary factor, the basic function of the EMMIs are to make better use of Samus' acrobatic movement than her more classic-style enemies do. If in the future they give you mini-boss enemy types that have to be led around into traps or something, or which you need to get behind to take out or scare off. If you don't have something like the EMMIs, a lot of the gorgeous new movement doesn't come up as much.
Enlightenment is understanding that the EMMI areas aren't stealth segments.
(Pre-emptive response to request for clarification: there is almost no need to break your stride in an EMMI zone, and it's more important that you stay out of their direct detection radius than avoid being perceived by the thing at all. Compared to, say, the Hyrule Castle Garden in Ocarina of Time, where the two states are "undetected" and "failure", in the EMMI zone you are almost always being "chased" and "hiding" is just a stalling action on the way to being caught. You will have far more fun with them if you treat them more as speedruns than stealth segments the way the game encourages you to.)
i found the first EMMI very frustrating and annoying but i've just beaten the second and now that i know how it goes it wasn't much of a bother
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
I was watching some reviews of older horror and survival horror games recently and the point was made that dying repeatedly to something is not scary, just frustrating. That really summarizes me feelings about the EMMI.
The narrow escapes I had with the SA-X were far more exciting than any interactions with the EMMI. Even the parts where you plink away at the EMMI armor that are meant to be tense got tiresome because now they also felt like bullet sponges.
the number of times i've totally wasted my time backtracking to a place and it's like lol here's an inscrutable, borderline impossible to execute shinespark puzzle get fucked
the number of times i've totally wasted my time backtracking to a place and it's like lol here's an inscrutable, borderline impossible to execute shinespark puzzle get fucked
If I, an absolutely terrible video game player, could do it, you can do it
The mechanics of shinespark in general are obtuse and I had to look them up, but once I understood how to control it, the puzzles themselves were quite fun.
the number of times i've totally wasted my time backtracking to a place and it's like lol here's an inscrutable, borderline impossible to execute shinespark puzzle get fucked
If I, an absolutely terrible video game player, could do it, you can do it
But if you're not having fun then there's no shame in skipping them.
The real travesty is you have to pull all that off with an analog stick.
Give me back my precision d-pad movement dammit.
It's still an 8-way shinespark and you can more or less tell the direction you are gonna launch into, as it is extremely forgiving on how much time you have (compared to earlier games).
But yes, it sucks having the loading screens hold the hints towards the advanced functionality.
you definitely needed shinespark for 100% in super, do not know if it was in the manual but it was in one of the demo videos that plays on the title screen, plus there was the pit where the animals try to teach you how to do it.
I was more annoyed about not being told you could shinespark in ball form in Zero Mission.
It's the tradeoff between handholding and trying things for yourself to see if you can do them. I doubt you'd find a balance that no-one complains about.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
I definitely had to look up a few of the more difficult shinespark puzzles, which I’m personally okay with. It’s not like I was looking it up and immediately executing them perfectly on the first try. For me, the fun was in figuring out the mechanics of how they worked, slowly struggling through how to execute those mechanics, and then pumping my fists when I finally pulled it off. There were definitely one or two that took me 30-60 minutes to figure out how to do, but for me it never felt frustrating or unenjoyable. But maybe I’m just a Metroid masochist.
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Really gives you an appreciation for how much work must have went into Dread's smooth tight and responsive action.
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Hearing the orchestra play the Metroid theme was great even though it was so short.
Yeah, just my opinion. But who knows, maybe next time they can make it GOTY material. 8-)
I don't know that I hate the EMMI sections but they are definitely my least enjoyed part of the game and hope they don't retread that ground in the future. It was fine for one game but I wouldn't want to do it again.
I enjoyed them until the late game ones in which I'm not allowed to breathe or the bots will hear it.
(Pre-emptive response to request for clarification: there is almost no need to break your stride in an EMMI zone, and it's more important that you stay out of their direct detection radius than avoid being perceived by the thing at all. Compared to, say, the Hyrule Castle Garden in Ocarina of Time, where the two states are "undetected" and "failure", in the EMMI zone you are almost always being "chased" and "hiding" is just a stalling action on the way to being caught. You will have far more fun with them if you treat them more as speedruns than stealth segments the way the game encourages you to.)
that said, it's also not very good? you go to an EMMI bit, you wander around until you find an exit, repeat until you're allowed to kill it. it's not particularly tense since you (mercifully) just reload and try it again, you're pretty time limited so you can't meaningfully do intentional exploration of those areas, so i don't know what it's really accomplishing. feels like you could cut the whole thing and lose nothing.
As I was playing it I probably would have disagreed with this, but now with some time to reflect, I think you’re right. I LOVED Dread, but looking at it objectively, the EMMI sections were probably the weakest aspect of the game. They weren’t bad really, just kind of unnecessary. Unlike the joy of exploring, or figuring out a difficult item puzzle or learning a boss weakness, the EMMI sections felt like a chore. Any time I started a new one, I only wanted to find the Omega Cannon as fast as possible so they were no longer a nuisance in that area.
I liked the idea of them and that the game went for something different. Just something about their execution was off.
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I think if you didn't lose your map when dying to an EMMI it would have been a lot better. So you could check your map and plan a new route. It would have maintained some of that feeling of exploration and made the EMMI zones less of a chore.
Building on this, it would be pretty cool if they leaned further into the stealth aspect of those sections. Why not have a camera system you can hack into to get a layout of the area before going in and see where the EMMI might be hiding? Or more pathways to use your Morph Ball to sneak around in. More objects you can interact with that make noise to lure the EMMI away.
That sort of stuff.
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i've never been very good at 2D games in general so i've had to really work on every boss fight but i haven't hit a wall so far
it's a couple attempts of "how the hell", a couple attempts of figuring it out, a couple attempts of cleaning up execution, and it's done
i'm terrible at
i did this most times and it worked fine
I was watching some reviews of older horror and survival horror games recently and the point was made that dying repeatedly to something is not scary, just frustrating. That really summarizes me feelings about the EMMI.
The narrow escapes I had with the SA-X were far more exciting than any interactions with the EMMI. Even the parts where you plink away at the EMMI armor that are meant to be tense got tiresome because now they also felt like bullet sponges.
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the number of times i've totally wasted my time backtracking to a place and it's like lol here's an inscrutable, borderline impossible to execute shinespark puzzle get fucked
If I, an absolutely terrible video game player, could do it, you can do it
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almost all of the more complicated ones rely on mechanics that you won't even know exist
I tell you what though, when I got one figured out and completed it, I felt awesome!
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But if you're not having fun then there's no shame in skipping them.
Give me back my precision d-pad movement dammit.
It's still an 8-way shinespark and you can more or less tell the direction you are gonna launch into, as it is extremely forgiving on how much time you have (compared to earlier games).
But yes, it sucks having the loading screens hold the hints towards the advanced functionality.
They didn't put the Crystal Flash ANYWHERE in the manual.
Yeah, but did you need Crystal Flash to 100% the game?
It's the tradeoff between handholding and trying things for yourself to see if you can do them. I doubt you'd find a balance that no-one complains about.
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hahahaha what an absolute fool that certain player must be and totally is not also absolutely me
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