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Donald Rumsfeld: War Criminal, Asshole, Dead Person
Butters
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A glass of some milksRegistered User regular
Donald Rumsfeld, a longtime GOP operative and staff member of multiple Republican administrations, has died at the age of 88.
Rumsfeld is most widely known for his 6-year tenure as Secretary of Defense for President George W. Bush. Under him, two disastrous operations in Iraq and Afghanistan began, the latter of which continues almost 20 year later.
Rumsfeld is most widely known for his 6-year tenure as Secretary of Defense for President George W. Bush. Under him, two disastrous operations in Iraq and Afghanistan began, the latter of which continues almost 20 year later.
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He isn’t the asshole whose death would help the country the most, but I’m glad to not be sucking the same atmosphere as him anymore.
He lived for too long and suffered too few consequences.
And as for that Jpeg you posted.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Good riddance.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule90
Torture is a war crime, ordering it is also a war crime
But you know that, I think
Oh, are you going to mount an actual defense of his actions, or just tut disapprovingly at those who rightly label him as a monster?
Ostensibly, we hold those who issue the orders to commit war crimes responsible, not just those who carry out those orders.
Rumsfeld was looking to orchestrate the Iraq War based on lies and was pushing for it even on September 11th, 2001. He both encouraged the torture of prisoners and excused their inhumane treatment as not actually torture. This is not controversial to say. There's a picture of his "more torture please" memo on his Wikipedia page for Chrissake.
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That doesn’t make what we sold to them a good thing!
We also gave them military intelligence and special ops training, which you can’t exactly put a firm dollar sign on
It is not inconsistent of the OP to frown at Rumsfeld’s arms sales and also frown at other countries doing the same thing
Actually I don't recall any such torture being ordered. I do however recall the authorization of the exact same lawful techniques that have been used for decades on 10s of thousands of US service members as part of their SERE training to be used on Al Qaeda detainees. Techniques certified as legal by the department of Justice and supported by bipartisan leadership of congressional intelligence oversight committees. Which also played a role in saving 10s of thousands of lives, disrupting numerous plots such as a terrorist attack to blow up the American consulate in Karachi, a plot to blow up a Marine camp in Djibouti, a plan to hijack an airplane and fly it into Heathrow Airport and buildings in downtown London and a plan to fly an airplane into the Library Tower in Los Angeles.
This is Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh. He was made to stand on this box and was told he would be electrocuted if he fell.
Rumsfeld specifically signed off on this, by the way. He argued that torture under the Geneva Conventions didn’t count if it wasn’t on American soil in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. The Supreme Court told him to get fucked because that shit was torture and torture isn’t about “location, location, location.”
You know, since you “don’t recall”. 🙄
The rest of your BS I’m not even going to address beyond saying torture has literally never been useful. It’s monstrous and it doesn’t even save lives.
Bipartisan support for war crimes does not make them morally acceptable or justifiable. Claiming it was lawful doesn't mean jack shit, especially when it wasn't lawful and they knew it wasn't lawful, which is why they did so much of this shit at black sites.
Also, torture does not provide reliable information.
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Guess what. Sometimes we are the baddies.
Also, much of that bipartisanship was rooted in misinformation from military intelligence which Rumsfeld was in charge of. I'm not going to deny the Democratic party had and still has hawks, but the Iraq war is a much harder case to make if more people knew how badly things were actually going in Afghanistan.
They don't have many posts so the trends are easy to note. Gotta defend the military industrial complex for some reason.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
So your defense of torture is we train our troops to endure it?
Additionally, the bad graph is also irrelevant to the image it was supposed to be responding to.
So other countries shipped more arms to Iraq? K? We also backed Iraq against Iran, when it wasn't a secret then that Saddam was a mass murdering cunt.
Hell, back in '99, on the bus into USAF basic training, one of the first things the bus driver pointed out to us, was the building where Saddam was trained, as a reminder that we are just as likely to create monsters, as fight them, if we aren't careful.
Rumsfeld was a garbage person, who did garbage things, who ordered atrocities, and spent his life pursuing violence, torture, war, and the wholesale destruction of peoples and cultures in the middle east and elsewhere.
"Buh uh, these other people also did bad things, so therefore this horrible person wasn't actually horrible because their torture justifies our torture!"
Jesus fucking tittyshitting Christ. Random account that posts every few years to defend atrocities. Rad.
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I gotta admit I'm a little surprised the first thread I've made in like a decade unearthed a Rumsfeld stan
I had to check the joined date because there's more than a few times I've immediately assumed a no avatar account dropping into a thread was just a new troll. But no, been around for a decade.
(This also isn't the place to speculate about others posters, regardless of clear trends in posting history)
His handling of the Iraq invasion and aftermath laid the groundwork for not only ISIS, but the Taliban resurgence we are seeing in Afghanistan. That picture above? That picture and the Abu Graibh Jail in which the torture was committed was the nexus for ISIS. Several of their leaders including Al-Bagdahi where confined there during the worst abuses. That is how they met and where radicalized. It literally lead to them deciding to destroy the government the US set in. Not to mention sending a 100k soldiers to occupy Iraq while Al-Qaida and the Taliban where licking their wounds, allowed them to rest up and regroup.
I mean the guy managed to harm US national security, just by speaking at a press conference. Not only the "go to war with the army you have" comment that sent a message that the US was going to drag their feet on providing protection against IEDs(true or not that was the impression), was a recruitment ad for every Insurgent force in the country. Nothing like telling the enemy that you don't care if your soldiers die.
Then there was his "Old Europe" statement disparagining France, Germany for their opposition to the Iraq war. Yeah, what a charmer. I get that you want to downplay their opposition to the invasion, but going out of your way to insult them? And pretending that central Europe was the new hotness? I am suuure the New European countries in the former Eastern Bloc have Billions of Dollars in aid money to give to your new little project. I am sure they can send thousands of troops to Afghanistan that you need due to suddenly deciding that Iraq was more important. Not like France and Germany are major political powers that you don't insult needlessly. Not like they are the centerpiece of the EU and therefore have sway of a vast tradezone.
"Sorry the knife is dull but you know you go with the tools you have.."
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That said, arming brutal regimes is par for the course in every US administration. Which isn't a defense, but it doesn't make Rumsfeld much worse than most Washington goons. His role in pushing the Iraq War and his pro-torture policy are what really makes him stand out in terms of evil, IMO.
Yeah, at this point I'm basically indifferent to his death. He didn't matter anymore and he never suffered consequences for anything he did. He got to fade away quietly, which is some bullshit.
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His response was that they knew exactly where they were; to the north, east, south and west of Baghdad. A response that ~I'm not sure if it was a flippant joke, or assurance that their were piles of weapons all over the place that they were going to trot out or what~ Pretty much confirmed that these people had no fucking clue.
Don’t feel bad, all geese are also war criminals.