I clearly remember a time, all the way until I was working in my first job out of college in fact, where the US military was an entirely defensive, static, “peacekeeping” force that, barring a couple weekends of misadventure in Central America, were really not in the business of actively dealing death.
Today I work with more than one person for whom the US military has been actively holding formerly sovereign ground, policing the locals there, killing people and blowing things up for inscrutable reasons and without much accountability to the people being policed and/or blown up, for the entirety of their lives. That’s just what “the US military” is to them.
Granted, I live on Coruscant in the USA so I experience very little of the actual difference in the first person, but it’s no less real for my insulation from it.
That change is only twenty years’ difference. Luke is not even twenty when we meet him in ANH. Palpatine never quite got to the “…and then, we shall have peace” he desired in Revenge of the Sith; things would have gotten so much, much worse.
If anything, the fact that most of the Republic was in a state where all it took to fall to corporatist and fascist dystopia was a dedicated push to put the right people at the controls of all the existing systems is an even stronger condemnation of the Jedi Order’s final stagnation, rather than a stretching of credulity, for me.
Thank you. I've been thinking this for the whole conversation but didn't feel confident saying it. Stuff happens and gets terrible quickly. The rise of and defeat of Nazi Germany wasn't exactly a long time either.
nightmarenny on
+2
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Hey, real question: is Andor the first time a “canonical” thing has used the BBY dating system? At least, on film and not in a novel?
Because frankly it’s neat and all but I do wish Star Wars had a better universal calendar system, it’s my one big worldbuilding quibble with a setting that I normally avoid being pedantic about because it feels like something the people in the universe would have and they just… somehow never mention it for the audience’s benefit!
pretty sure it's the first time they've put BBY/ABY onscreen
weirdly enough there is an in-setting calendar that also shows up in Andor (it's on the important bricks). It's been around for a while but is, irritatingly, super underutilized.
and was invented almost entirely because someone noted the absence of one and that it was weird.
Thanks almost certainly to Pablo Hildago.
+1
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I clearly remember a time, all the way until I was working in my first job out of college in fact, where the US military was an entirely defensive, static, “peacekeeping” force that, barring a couple weekends of misadventure in Central America, were really not in the business of actively dealing death.
Today I work with more than one person for whom the US military has been actively holding formerly sovereign ground, policing the locals there, killing people and blowing things up for inscrutable reasons and without much accountability to the people being policed and/or blown up, for the entirety of their lives. That’s just what “the US military” is to them.
Granted, I live on Coruscant in the USA so I experience very little of the actual difference in the first person, but it’s no less real for my insulation from it.
That change is only twenty years’ difference. Luke is not even twenty when we meet him in ANH. Palpatine never quite got to the “…and then, we shall have peace” he desired in Revenge of the Sith; things would have gotten so much, much worse.
If anything, the fact that most of the Republic was in a state where all it took to fall to corporatist and fascist dystopia was a dedicated push to put the right people at the controls of all the existing systems is an even stronger condemnation of the Jedi Order’s final stagnation, rather than a stretching of credulity, for me.
Thank you. I've been thinking this for the whole conversation but didn't feel confident saying it. Stuff happens and gets terrible quickly. The rise or and defeat of Nazi Germany wasn't exactly a long time either.
Thinking about it more, it's definitely the scale that feels like it requires a longer timeframe, the inertia of something so large as a galactic government needing time to change over to a new regime. The branding and flags alone! The rest is just a vibe thing. Something that's 17 years old versus something older, more entrenched, makes the odds feel more stacked against our heroes and heightens the drama
Not saying there's a solution to this given the whole Darth Vader/Anakin story arc! Just one of those things that makes me go "huh" whenever I think about it
I think it's not as far fetched that the large government bureaucracy goes along with the Empire. Most people just want to make enough money to take care of their family and don't think of the big picture. Hell, in Andor there's that huge room of people working on fuel purity or whatever. They probably don't care who's in charge.
I am in the business of saving lives.
+8
DepressperadoI just wanted to see you laughingin the pizza rainRegistered Userregular
kids nowadays consign everything that happened before their birth as "the distant past", I'm sure they did it a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away
I don't get why adults act like there wasn't just a galaxy-spanning war that ended with an attempted Jedi coup and now a guy who looks like a nutsack has declared himself Emperor, though.
A lot of the military structure for the Empire was already in place a la the Clone Wars.
The big star destroyers were fairly close in design, presumably the same armories building armor for the Clones were just streamlined to mass produce cheaper, shittier armor, and a lot of the admiralty leading the fleets when depicted weren't Clones. That's where you got your Tarkins and such. So it makes sense that the Empire as depicted could've manifested from the existing Republic military in a short period. Like, in my head, had the Clone Wars gone on a little longer we would've started to see the Imperial Star Destroyers and equipment we see in ANH starting to be introduced. Militaries are CONSTANTLY prototyping and testing new everything during wars.
Plus, the Republic was already in occupation of the majority of the galaxy having ousted the separatists, so all their bases and outposts on strategic planets would've just been converted over. So thats fairly straightforward.
We also know the major reason for the Death Star was to bring the rest of the galaxy to heel, at least going by ANH. It paints a picture of an empire with a slightly more tenuous grasp on control than the monolithic Space Nazi regime we see depicted now. The Galactic Senate was still a thorn in the emperors side and he had to play along to a degree, at least up to ANH. The Death Star was basically his "fuck you, no more pretending at playing politics I have the big gun now."
My basic headcanon for the timeline is this: the Clone Wars ends with Order 66 and the Purge, Palps takes over and the central systems more collectively used to the System and many years of war time fall in quickly. But space is huge and with the Separatists systems brought back in line Palpatine is now in tentative control of a massively inflated and massively broke, war ravaged galaxy. The new Empire needs time to rebuild and consolidate its gains so that means playing at politics in the senate, and using a lot of dirty (but quiet) maneuvers against senators like Mon Mothma in Andor. He wasn't quite at the point he could just dissolve the senate and make the high profile dissenters disappear.
Meanwhile, they roll out the new phase of equipment, restructure the military and phase out the Clones. Clones being exceptionally well trained but highly expensive and not manufacturable enough to occupy huge swaths of the galaxy were replaced by recruitment in the central systems and probable "encouraged" mobilization in the outer systems. Enter the stormtroopers and their ineffective armor. Also tie fighters designed to be light and fast but barely armored. Sort of the Japanese Zeros of Star Wars.
All the while the Death Star is in development and between that and the consistent erosion of the senate, by ANH Palpatine is in position to finally take complete control of the galaxy, but the Empire isn't quite as all consuming and untouchable as it may appear.
All the while the Death Star is in development and between that and the consistent erosion of the senate, by ANH Palpatine is in position to finally take complete control of the galaxy, but the Empire isn't quite as all consuming and untouchable as it may appear.
All the while the Death Star is in development and between that and the consistent erosion of the senate, by ANH Palpatine is in position to finally take complete control of the galaxy, but the Empire isn't quite as all consuming and untouchable as it may appear.
The Empire was also using and supporting the local law enforcement already in place, only taking direct control when they proved ineffective or had built up the manpower to do so
+4
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
That's the way these things happen. Day to day life is more or less the same as it used to be. Until one day you realize it isn't.
Like, what the fuck? This stuff isn't supposed to be so goddamned good? This show understands the Empire better than any other Star Wars media to date and its honestly inspiring.
We need more stuff that understands the threat these kinds of people pose but also understands that their strength lies in intimidation and fear. All it takes is for people to start pushing back.
I dunno, that sounds like a collective action somebody else's problem to me...
It's not just someone else's problem, but hopefully someone else is braver than I am to do something.
In the last six years I've seen multiple American politicians openly suggest that people with my last name shouldn't be allowed to live in the US (where I was born) or that we should be listed in government databases.
In that same period of time I got married and had two kids.
Today my response to the rise of facism in the US is to vote for and support antifacist groups. Am I going to be in the streets mixing it up with Proud Boys and the police? No, I've got a family and I need to not be arrested for them.
I'm a lot more sympathetic to people who, for whatever reasons, are just trying to get by.
Like, what the fuck? This stuff isn't supposed to be so goddamned good? This show understands the Empire better than any other Star Wars media to date and its honestly inspiring.
We need more stuff that understands the threat these kinds of people pose but also understands that their strength lies in intimidation and fear. All it takes is for people to start pushing back.
It’s applying a Marxist, materialist, understanding to the world, that’s why. It fundamentally understands historical materialism as it relates to the elites seizing power, and how the people react to that. I think it’s also a breath of fresh air because we get very little of this kind of analysis in the modern anglosphere.
While it makes the Empire less impressive to realise that it didn't even manage to last two decades, that's longer than Hitler's "Thousand Year Reich" managed. Much like the Nazis, the Empire appropriated imagery much older than itself in an attempt to give itself legitimacy through a false connection to antiquity.
+8
Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
Cause I think, for my money, it's the best monologue delivered in Star Wars.
As much as I love the series, that's not an especially high bar, though honestly, I'd give it to the Emperor's scene when he's telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis in RotS. McDiarmid so effortlessly shifts between pleasant, manipulative, and disdainful.
+3
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Cause I think, for my money, it's the best monologue delivered in Star Wars.
I love that monolougue because it's absolute bullshit that Luthien is trying to convince himself of.
+1
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Maarva’s monologue in the finale is something else, too. A figurative and literal brick to the face.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
+16
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I know folks were making jokes about Luthien being akin to Garak from DS9, but I found him ultimately more similar to another character (primarily where they end up in late-game DS9).
Cause I think, for my money, it's the best monologue delivered in Star Wars.
I love that monolougue because it's absolute bullshit that Luthien is trying to convince himself of.
@Bloods End I'm curious why you think it's a lie, and what you think about Luthen.
Personally I think that's the most honest he's been in the show but I very well could be reading it wrong.
My read on Luthen is at that moment he's getting victories but he's also seeing that his way of fighting isn't working, or at least isn't working fast enough. The Empire cracks down further, his allies are more reluctant, not less, He's a knife in the dark, he's a man who will sell out allies for a tactical victory, and that it is useful, necessary, but it also not going to bring the empire down. He's "slipping" Kleyia says, and he is insistent that he can't be. He trusted that when Andor had a taste of the rebellion he'd stay in, but had that backfire. And then goes all in to kill him. Is is super necessary? Probably not! Does it require two of his agents on the job when they have other things they could be doing? Also no. Does it require him personally? Absolutely not! But it was embarrassing to him, and Luthen cannot allow himself to be a liability to the rebellion. He has to have the mind that is a sunless place. When he goes to visit Saw about Kreeger? He is basically pleading with Saw to disagree with him, to do the tactically stupid thing and help their allies. When he agrees with him, Luthen is so pissed that he makes his escape from Imperial authorities basically the loudest thing he could possible do because he is so frustrated. And then he goes to Ferrix, he see's Marva's speech, which is the exact counter of his. It's about lifting each other up, it's about fighting for something not just fighting. About home and community. And his response is to smile just as much as when he personally bloodied the Empires nose. The uprising on Ferrix barely matters to the Empire. A few dozen if that men killed, couple of thousand credits in munitions destroyed, few officials embarrassed, but the idea of what could happen when people are working with each other, now that is a rebellion.
Look at Andor, he doesn't have a cause to begin with, but from the moment we meet him he is about getting his team out safe and surviving. He doesn't care about the heist, but he tells them how they can all survive. He is focused on saving the other prisoners, which he does by not being the hero but getting them to be the hero. He's going back to Ferrix to take care of his family and the people he loves, and after Marvaa's speech he sees that the only way to do that is to join the rebellion. Which rewards Luthen's faith that he had back in the beginning.
TLD; he's trying to convince himself as much as he is Lonnie.
Posts
Thank you. I've been thinking this for the whole conversation but didn't feel confident saying it. Stuff happens and gets terrible quickly. The rise of and defeat of Nazi Germany wasn't exactly a long time either.
Thanks almost certainly to Pablo Hildago.
Thinking about it more, it's definitely the scale that feels like it requires a longer timeframe, the inertia of something so large as a galactic government needing time to change over to a new regime. The branding and flags alone! The rest is just a vibe thing. Something that's 17 years old versus something older, more entrenched, makes the odds feel more stacked against our heroes and heightens the drama
Not saying there's a solution to this given the whole Darth Vader/Anakin story arc! Just one of those things that makes me go "huh" whenever I think about it
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I don't get why adults act like there wasn't just a galaxy-spanning war that ended with an attempted Jedi coup and now a guy who looks like a nutsack has declared himself Emperor, though.
The big star destroyers were fairly close in design, presumably the same armories building armor for the Clones were just streamlined to mass produce cheaper, shittier armor, and a lot of the admiralty leading the fleets when depicted weren't Clones. That's where you got your Tarkins and such. So it makes sense that the Empire as depicted could've manifested from the existing Republic military in a short period. Like, in my head, had the Clone Wars gone on a little longer we would've started to see the Imperial Star Destroyers and equipment we see in ANH starting to be introduced. Militaries are CONSTANTLY prototyping and testing new everything during wars.
Plus, the Republic was already in occupation of the majority of the galaxy having ousted the separatists, so all their bases and outposts on strategic planets would've just been converted over. So thats fairly straightforward.
We also know the major reason for the Death Star was to bring the rest of the galaxy to heel, at least going by ANH. It paints a picture of an empire with a slightly more tenuous grasp on control than the monolithic Space Nazi regime we see depicted now. The Galactic Senate was still a thorn in the emperors side and he had to play along to a degree, at least up to ANH. The Death Star was basically his "fuck you, no more pretending at playing politics I have the big gun now."
My basic headcanon for the timeline is this: the Clone Wars ends with Order 66 and the Purge, Palps takes over and the central systems more collectively used to the System and many years of war time fall in quickly. But space is huge and with the Separatists systems brought back in line Palpatine is now in tentative control of a massively inflated and massively broke, war ravaged galaxy. The new Empire needs time to rebuild and consolidate its gains so that means playing at politics in the senate, and using a lot of dirty (but quiet) maneuvers against senators like Mon Mothma in Andor. He wasn't quite at the point he could just dissolve the senate and make the high profile dissenters disappear.
Meanwhile, they roll out the new phase of equipment, restructure the military and phase out the Clones. Clones being exceptionally well trained but highly expensive and not manufacturable enough to occupy huge swaths of the galaxy were replaced by recruitment in the central systems and probable "encouraged" mobilization in the outer systems. Enter the stormtroopers and their ineffective armor. Also tie fighters designed to be light and fast but barely armored. Sort of the Japanese Zeros of Star Wars.
All the while the Death Star is in development and between that and the consistent erosion of the senate, by ANH Palpatine is in position to finally take complete control of the galaxy, but the Empire isn't quite as all consuming and untouchable as it may appear.
Well,
I clicked on that name like "woah, he has an account here?"
The fact it is so good almost makes me angry.
Like, what the fuck? This stuff isn't supposed to be so goddamned good? This show understands the Empire better than any other Star Wars media to date and its honestly inspiring.
We need more stuff that understands the threat these kinds of people pose but also understands that their strength lies in intimidation and fear. All it takes is for people to start pushing back.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
It's not just someone else's problem, but hopefully someone else is braver than I am to do something.
In the last six years I've seen multiple American politicians openly suggest that people with my last name shouldn't be allowed to live in the US (where I was born) or that we should be listed in government databases.
In that same period of time I got married and had two kids.
Today my response to the rise of facism in the US is to vote for and support antifacist groups. Am I going to be in the streets mixing it up with Proud Boys and the police? No, I've got a family and I need to not be arrested for them.
I'm a lot more sympathetic to people who, for whatever reasons, are just trying to get by.
It’s applying a Marxist, materialist, understanding to the world, that’s why. It fundamentally understands historical materialism as it relates to the elites seizing power, and how the people react to that. I think it’s also a breath of fresh air because we get very little of this kind of analysis in the modern anglosphere.
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/andor-explained-season-1-finale-season-2-preview-1234626573/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/andor-tony-gilroy-talks-luthen-rael-monologue-easter-eggs-1235258961/
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Its Steam page was accidentally updated with a March 16 release date, though it's been changed back to "Coming soon" by now.
they all fell out of the sequel-mandated Bag of Spilling.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
"Can me make Cal more of a generic-white-guy-shooter-hero-except-he's-a-Jedi?"
"Watch me."
Needs more stubble.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
Literally just different ponchos and paint jobs for the ship and droid
He's like, fuckin, the Wally Cleaver of Star Wars.
Hope his run animation is better this time around! Very weird gait on that boy
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Pretty good! Well put together, well produced, compelling and bold.
Also? Is this the single best monologue delivered in Star Wars?
Cause I think, for my money, it's the best monologue delivered in Star Wars.
As much as I love the series, that's not an especially high bar, though honestly, I'd give it to the Emperor's scene when he's telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis in RotS. McDiarmid so effortlessly shifts between pleasant, manipulative, and disdainful.
I love that monolougue because it's absolute bullshit that Luthien is trying to convince himself of.
Star Trek: DS9 Spoilers
nah
Yeah that’s the most honest Luthen is the whole show, excepting maybe his last conversation with Saw
Skarsgard showed up to work man
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
@Bloods End I'm curious why you think it's a lie, and what you think about Luthen.
Personally I think that's the most honest he's been in the show but I very well could be reading it wrong.
Coran Attack!
"Let's call it... war."
Whitaker wasn't about to be upstaged either.
Thats comparing champagne to sparkling clown fucking.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
My read on Luthen is at that moment he's getting victories but he's also seeing that his way of fighting isn't working, or at least isn't working fast enough. The Empire cracks down further, his allies are more reluctant, not less, He's a knife in the dark, he's a man who will sell out allies for a tactical victory, and that it is useful, necessary, but it also not going to bring the empire down. He's "slipping" Kleyia says, and he is insistent that he can't be. He trusted that when Andor had a taste of the rebellion he'd stay in, but had that backfire. And then goes all in to kill him. Is is super necessary? Probably not! Does it require two of his agents on the job when they have other things they could be doing? Also no. Does it require him personally? Absolutely not! But it was embarrassing to him, and Luthen cannot allow himself to be a liability to the rebellion. He has to have the mind that is a sunless place. When he goes to visit Saw about Kreeger? He is basically pleading with Saw to disagree with him, to do the tactically stupid thing and help their allies. When he agrees with him, Luthen is so pissed that he makes his escape from Imperial authorities basically the loudest thing he could possible do because he is so frustrated. And then he goes to Ferrix, he see's Marva's speech, which is the exact counter of his. It's about lifting each other up, it's about fighting for something not just fighting. About home and community. And his response is to smile just as much as when he personally bloodied the Empires nose. The uprising on Ferrix barely matters to the Empire. A few dozen if that men killed, couple of thousand credits in munitions destroyed, few officials embarrassed, but the idea of what could happen when people are working with each other, now that is a rebellion.
Look at Andor, he doesn't have a cause to begin with, but from the moment we meet him he is about getting his team out safe and surviving. He doesn't care about the heist, but he tells them how they can all survive. He is focused on saving the other prisoners, which he does by not being the hero but getting them to be the hero. He's going back to Ferrix to take care of his family and the people he loves, and after Marvaa's speech he sees that the only way to do that is to join the rebellion. Which rewards Luthen's faith that he had back in the beginning.
TLD; he's trying to convince himself as much as he is Lonnie.