When the kid asked Ikaris if he was Superman I expected him to say "No Superman isn't real."
But instead he said "No, I don't wear a cape."
And I couldn't help but be like...wait...how does this work.
I know it literally doesn't matter in the slightest it just felt weird to me.
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
+1
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited January 2022
I would imagine that heroes on either side of that comic coin would take the compliment as its meant to be.
Because outside the details of their given settings, certain comic heroes are the iconic paragons of fighting the good fight. It doesn't matter if they don't exist in your reality or not, if somebody calls you Superman, you're going home and writing in your diary how it was a pretty good day to fight crime.
I mean a core conceit of marvel comics since forever is that even with all the costumed nonsense going on, it's a close facsimile of the real world; it makes perfect sense that there'd be comic books in the marvel universe and Superman is just the best shorthand for that. If they referenced Miracleman or Homelander or something it'd be weird.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
+6
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
like, we know from the deviants that arishem might not exactly be the most meticulous planner; he wants societies to grow to a certain population/tech level/whatever and as long as the eternals are doing the bare minimum to make that happen (i.e. not letting primitive humans all get eaten by deviants), well, mission accomplished. Once a stable, growing human society is established and the deviants are all gone a crew of eternals are apparently free to fuck around for the few thousand years it takes for the population to grow to the requisite size. If Arishem wanted to really maximize efficiency he could put druig and phaestos in charge but he doesn't, he just wants pest control taken care of and after that don't rock the boat.
which honestly might be why the snap was no big deal; like yeah it's a monkey wrench but assuming the world doesn't literally end the human population will probably grow back within 80 or 100 years.
It’s my understanding within the film’s established canon that the Celestials are simply old and powerful, not omnipotent or even highly competent. Honestly other than being technologically superior, they’re pretty much just farmers.
I mean a core conceit of marvel comics since forever is that even with all the costumed nonsense going on, it's a close facsimile of the real world; it makes perfect sense that there'd be comic books in the marvel universe and Superman is just the best shorthand for that. If they referenced Miracleman or Homelander or something it'd be weird.
Fun fact: in Earth 616’s reality, Marvel Comics exists and makes, well, weird docu-comics about heroes.
+4
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I mean a core conceit of marvel comics since forever is that even with all the costumed nonsense going on, it's a close facsimile of the real world; it makes perfect sense that there'd be comic books in the marvel universe and Superman is just the best shorthand for that. If they referenced Miracleman or Homelander or something it'd be weird.
Fun fact: in Earth 616’s reality, Marvel Comics exists and makes, well, weird docu-comics about heroes.
like, we know from the deviants that arishem might not exactly be the most meticulous planner; he wants societies to grow to a certain population/tech level/whatever and as long as the eternals are doing the bare minimum to make that happen (i.e. not letting primitive humans all get eaten by deviants), well, mission accomplished. Once a stable, growing human society is established and the deviants are all gone a crew of eternals are apparently free to fuck around for the few thousand years it takes for the population to grow to the requisite size. If Arishem wanted to really maximize efficiency he could put druig and phaestos in charge but he doesn't, he just wants pest control taken care of and after that don't rock the boat.
which honestly might be why the snap was no big deal; like yeah it's a monkey wrench but assuming the world doesn't literally end the human population will probably grow back within 80 or 100 years.
It’s my understanding within the film’s established canon that the Celestials are simply old and powerful, not omnipotent or even highly competent. Honestly other than being technologically superior, they’re pretty much just farmers.
Yeah, we never see them fight something that isn't a Deviant or each other, so all we know is that the power rankings go
Bronze Age man < Deviants < Eternals < Celestials
Plus, if they're under the radar and explicitly told not to interfere, the only way for them to actually get involved in anything else would be accidentally getting caught up in whatever fight is going on, and they're all pretty isolated except for Sersi
It might not make sense to us that they never get involved, but it's clear that it makes sense to them, and for me that's all I needed
The Ultron city thing was something that should be in Ikaris' wheelhouse because it would end all life on the planet, but then it occurred to me that he would just see on the news that a city was flying with no idea of the reason.
Do not interfere means do no prep work nor active monitoring, which the Avengers have in spades. But the movies don't show that because it's boring.
One of Steve Rogers jobs, outside of Captain America-ing, has been as an artist.
A comic artist.
guess who has employed him at one time or another on Earth 616
Additional additional fun fact: in Dan Slott's excellent run on She-Hulk, it's noted that Marvel comics document actual superhero events so well that her law firm (which specializes in super-powered lawsuits) keeps longboxes of old comics around for legal research.
The strangest thing for me - and I realize this is INCREDIBLY nit picky and stupid - is that I can not believe Eternals referenced BOTH Batman and Superman.
It felt so strange and against my own will my brain started spinning up wondering if DC movies exist in the MCU.
I mean, the Eternals are transparently an MCU Justice League
I thought they were supposed to be the Marvel New Gods?
like, we know from the deviants that arishem might not exactly be the most meticulous planner; he wants societies to grow to a certain population/tech level/whatever and as long as the eternals are doing the bare minimum to make that happen (i.e. not letting primitive humans all get eaten by deviants), well, mission accomplished. Once a stable, growing human society is established and the deviants are all gone a crew of eternals are apparently free to fuck around for the few thousand years it takes for the population to grow to the requisite size. If Arishem wanted to really maximize efficiency he could put druig and phaestos in charge but he doesn't, he just wants pest control taken care of and after that don't rock the boat.
which honestly might be why the snap was no big deal; like yeah it's a monkey wrench but assuming the world doesn't literally end the human population will probably grow back within 80 or 100 years.
This is part of the sloppyiness of the overall backstory/plot.
They have a space ship that they came on, why do they need to stick around for 5,000 years just screwing around? If all the Deviants are gone, go ahead and leave. They can move on to the next planet. You're right, the Celestial's don't seem that concerned with efficiency, which makes sense, they are building stars and such that is at a completely different timescale. Which begs the question, why are they so concerned about the Celestial being born if it doesn't seem to take that much time in a galactic sense. Even if the seed was dropped millions of years ago, apparently you need intelligent life to feed it since Dinosaurs didn't, and we've only been around a short while. Seems like you'd have Celestial's popping up all over in the MCU given how many life bearing planets we see.
And then you have the 'interfere' or 'not interfere' sloppiness. So it's cool to help with a plow or the A-bomb, but no help with the Black Death? or Spanish Influenza? You know, things that really jeopardize their main mission. Oh you can't help unless deviants are involved? Did the deviants join the Axis powers in WW2 and we didn't know?
It just comes down to structure. Had they just focused on the deviant's, the movie could have been a lot better. Druig would have scene's to show us why he's even part of the team. He could help calm panic during an attack and move people safely or show that his skill also help train humans, so we're better at using bows and defending ourselves from the deviants. Phaestos as well could have scene's where he's building traps or weapons to help fight the deviants, you know, showing some purpose for being a part of the team other than 'helping humans' which isn't even their main mission.
The idea that deviants decided to hide and evolve for thousands of years could give the new variants ways to fight against the "super powered' team members like Ikaris. The only strategy in battle we saw was with Sprite at the beginning. With them evenly matched, they could have crafted better fight scenes.
It's a shame, the cast was good, the special effects were fun, there's a much more restrained plot that could have worked. I'm curious if we're getting to the point where the MCU is getting a bit too large and we'll start to see more fails. Generally even the lower ranked MCU movies were considered good enough.
There are plenty of MCU movies that were as weak as Eternals, they just all benefited from the MCU's collective branding and didn't release in a contentious time.
One other thing that bugged me about the 'main' plot:
Arishem mentioned Judging humanity at the end. Why did it even get that far? Did he just happen to miss that a bunch of humans helped save 50% of all life in the universe? You know, the life they need to birth new Celestial's. If there was ever any planet in the entire universe that maybe didn't deserve to be destroyed in the birth of a Celestial, it's probably Earth! Given that Ajak and Sersi have communication with him, the idea they didn't let him know this seems silly.
One other thing that bugged me about the 'main' plot:
Arishem mentioned Judging humanity at the end. Why did it even get that far? Did he just happen to miss that a bunch of humans helped save 50% of all life in the universe? You know, the life they need to birth new Celestial's. If there was ever any planet in the entire universe that maybe didn't deserve to be destroyed in the birth of a Celestial, it's probably Earth! Given that Ajak and Sersi have communication with him, the idea they didn't let him know this seems silly.
Arishem got blipped, and didn't notice the whole thing.
After all, what's 5 Earth years to a being that's been around billions? Barely a short nap.
The strangest thing for me - and I realize this is INCREDIBLY nit picky and stupid - is that I can not believe Eternals referenced BOTH Batman and Superman.
It felt so strange and against my own will my brain started spinning up wondering if DC movies exist in the MCU.
It'd be really funny (to me) if the DCU not only existed in the MCU as films, but was wildly successful in a way that exceeds their struggles in the real world, but it'd probably come across as mean spirited, and probably a no-go simply based on 'no, we're not strongly promoting the movies/franchises trying to be our competition', but the thought made me chuckle all the same.
I'm assuming there was some *lengthy* chats between the two companies/their legal teams, just to make sure everything is cool and kosher.
It'd be really nice if it was kind of an olive branch to tone down the stupid tribalistic fan wars that erupt now and then, but those have persisted through the decades so I doubt a couple of throwaway lines will change much.
Now, if a future DCU film has a shoutout about someone calling The Avengers in case their plan to foil the big bad fails, we'll know something is truly afoot.
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
Actors playing themselves playing their characters. Like Jason Momoa on the set of Aquaman and then Namor shows up and says something disparaging, then the same scene reverses for DC.
A "real" crossover would probably be hamstrung by the same fussiness DC brought to all the comic crossovers and considering some of the things that were done in the name of appeasement I'd rather it not leave the pages of a mostly non canon side show.
having watched eternals I think it's biggest problem is just that it's a marvel movie; the basic idea of an estranged family bouncing through history while figuring out their origin is pretty interesting, but it's hamstrung by the fact that they at least ostensibly exist in the same world as the avengers (as the film feels compelled to keep reminding us.)
like even when the snap happens and fucks up the whole celestial program, eternals are committed to noninterference? seems a bit naff
For normal things like wars and shit the Eternals presumably have standing orders to not interfere.
We're not given any reason to think Earth is special among the worlds to which Arishem has sent Eternals. Unless he just happens to know where all of the infinity stones are at any given time, he probably wasn't even aware of Thanos until the moment the Snap happened. Dude's area of influence is apparently "the entire universe". Individual beings, regardless of power, are probably beneath his notice.
The actual Eternals might have known a couple of infinity stones were on Earth given their apparent tendency to collect shit, but they've apparently been running mostly silent for a long-ass time. The general public didn't know about Thanos leading up to the Snap, so neither would they, and without specific knowledge they wouldn't have any reason to report it to Arishem and get new marching orders.
Once the Snap happened, what were they going to do? Thanos left Earth immediately for parts unknown. They couldn't go un-Snap everybody even if Arishem told them to.
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
Actors playing themselves playing their characters. Like Jason Momoa on the set of Aquaman and then Namor shows up and says something disparaging, then the same scene reverses for DC.
A "real" crossover would probably be hamstrung by the same fussiness DC brought to all the comic crossovers and considering some of the things that were done in the name of appeasement I'd rather it not leave the pages of a mostly non canon side show.
a marvel / DC movie crossover would be neat considering the characters are more evenly matched on the screen
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
Actors playing themselves playing their characters. Like Jason Momoa on the set of Aquaman and then Namor shows up and says something disparaging, then the same scene reverses for DC.
A "real" crossover would probably be hamstrung by the same fussiness DC brought to all the comic crossovers and considering some of the things that were done in the name of appeasement I'd rather it not leave the pages of a mostly non canon side show.
To be fair, Namor would probably destroy the production for the insult of implying that someone else ruled the oceans.
+1
Options
HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
One other thing that bugged me about the 'main' plot:
Arishem mentioned Judging humanity at the end. Why did it even get that far? Did he just happen to miss that a bunch of humans helped save 50% of all life in the universe? You know, the life they need to birth new Celestial's. If there was ever any planet in the entire universe that maybe didn't deserve to be destroyed in the birth of a Celestial, it's probably Earth! Given that Ajak and Sersi have communication with him, the idea they didn't let him know this seems silly.
Going on what the film tells us, the Celestials operate on a very long timescale, I think the line is that a new one is birthed every billion years.
Knowing that, Thanos' little tantrum isn't going to be more than a minor hiccup in that plan, so by the same token, undoing it isn't going to be that big a deal either.
And you could also take Kingo's approach, sure - they undid the snap, but how many worlds and billions of people won't exist because Tiamat didn't emerge, do they cancel each other out?
Well, thanks for the effort guys, but everyone on Earth is dead from the earthquakes and tsunamis that did occur from a partial emergence.
Like I never give a shit about the physics of superheroes themselves but maybe give a seismologist a call before showing that.
It's the mass suicides that'd be the issue.
Half the world has experienced the other half disappearing, the existence of non-human like aliens that are incredibly powerful, and now there's a giant creature sticking half way out of the Earth. That's gotta be a lot of stress in like 5 years. Plus that thing probably killed a bunch of fish off as well.
0
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I mean a core conceit of marvel comics since forever is that even with all the costumed nonsense going on, it's a close facsimile of the real world; it makes perfect sense that there'd be comic books in the marvel universe and Superman is just the best shorthand for that. If they referenced Miracleman or Homelander or something it'd be weird.
MCU J. Jonah Jameson would be a big fan of The Boys.
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
Actors playing themselves playing their characters. Like Jason Momoa on the set of Aquaman and then Namor shows up and says something disparaging, then the same scene reverses for DC.
A "real" crossover would probably be hamstrung by the same fussiness DC brought to all the comic crossovers and considering some of the things that were done in the name of appeasement I'd rather it not leave the pages of a mostly non canon side show.
a marvel / DC movie crossover would be neat considering the characters are more evenly matched on the screen
They should be fairly matched in the comics as well, but DC has had long lists of demands every time a comic crossover has happened. Things like their biggest or currently trending characters can't lose to a Marvel character (this is why Lobo vs. Wolverine looks more like an awkward make out session than a fight), any time a knockoff pair appears the DC one has to be acknowledged or established as the stronger one (regardless which is the original and which is the knockoff) and so on.
This is why a bunch of DC characters have lifted Mjolnir or used Cap's shield (several at the same time) but the first time anyone from Marvel got a Lantern ring was in an unlicensed work from the guy who did the Serenity comic.
Edit: to be fair, Marvel has brought demands to the negotiation on these crossovers, too, but the inside accounts generally agree that DC made many non-negotiable demands and Marvel was left in the position of conceding or not making the comic.
Hevach on
0
Options
HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
The Ebony Blade, wielded by a previous Black Knight, was in 1955. Dane Whitman showed up in '67. So Elric would not be a knockoff Dane Whitman, Stormbringer might be a knockoff Ebony Blade... though perusing some TV Tropes suggests that powerful black swords go back to Tolkien or earlier.
When I think of Eternals, the first thing that comes to mind is Kingo's deadeyes dance intro. How do you make a big Bollywood dance number look so dull and lifeless? It's got a bunch of moving parts, which it compensates for by being slow and ponderous if you focus on an individual dancer.
And that's kinda the whole movie. It's a story told in broad strokes. The closer you get to the center of the film, meaning Sersi, the slower it gets.
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
It's pretty clear Eternals is doing something different from the rest of the MCU. Some of us are on board for what it's doing differently, others of us aren't.
*shrug*
+6
Options
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Also someone get rid of the draft saving jesus christ that's annoying.
Posts
When the kid asked Ikaris if he was Superman I expected him to say "No Superman isn't real."
But instead he said "No, I don't wear a cape."
And I couldn't help but be like...wait...how does this work.
I know it literally doesn't matter in the slightest it just felt weird to me.
Because outside the details of their given settings, certain comic heroes are the iconic paragons of fighting the good fight. It doesn't matter if they don't exist in your reality or not, if somebody calls you Superman, you're going home and writing in your diary how it was a pretty good day to fight crime.
Or maybe if they're unlucky, they just have Image
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Fun fact: in Earth 616’s reality, Marvel Comics exists and makes, well, weird docu-comics about heroes.
Just like in Logan
One of Steve Rogers jobs, outside of Captain America-ing, has been as an artist.
A comic artist.
guess who has employed him at one time or another on Earth 616
Bronze Age man < Deviants < Eternals < Celestials
Plus, if they're under the radar and explicitly told not to interfere, the only way for them to actually get involved in anything else would be accidentally getting caught up in whatever fight is going on, and they're all pretty isolated except for Sersi
It might not make sense to us that they never get involved, but it's clear that it makes sense to them, and for me that's all I needed
A whole ass Eternals movie and still no sign of the most obvious piece of merchandise in the history of Merchandising.
where is the Arishem the Judge’s head drink mug, Disney?
Do not interfere means do no prep work nor active monitoring, which the Avengers have in spades. But the movies don't show that because it's boring.
Additional additional fun fact: in Dan Slott's excellent run on She-Hulk, it's noted that Marvel comics document actual superhero events so well that her law firm (which specializes in super-powered lawsuits) keeps longboxes of old comics around for legal research.
I thought they were supposed to be the Marvel New Gods?
This is part of the sloppyiness of the overall backstory/plot.
And then you have the 'interfere' or 'not interfere' sloppiness. So it's cool to help with a plow or the A-bomb, but no help with the Black Death? or Spanish Influenza? You know, things that really jeopardize their main mission. Oh you can't help unless deviants are involved? Did the deviants join the Axis powers in WW2 and we didn't know?
It just comes down to structure. Had they just focused on the deviant's, the movie could have been a lot better. Druig would have scene's to show us why he's even part of the team. He could help calm panic during an attack and move people safely or show that his skill also help train humans, so we're better at using bows and defending ourselves from the deviants. Phaestos as well could have scene's where he's building traps or weapons to help fight the deviants, you know, showing some purpose for being a part of the team other than 'helping humans' which isn't even their main mission.
The idea that deviants decided to hide and evolve for thousands of years could give the new variants ways to fight against the "super powered' team members like Ikaris. The only strategy in battle we saw was with Sprite at the beginning. With them evenly matched, they could have crafted better fight scenes.
It's a shame, the cast was good, the special effects were fun, there's a much more restrained plot that could have worked. I'm curious if we're getting to the point where the MCU is getting a bit too large and we'll start to see more fails. Generally even the lower ranked MCU movies were considered good enough.
Only available now at Disney Parks!
After all, what's 5 Earth years to a being that's been around billions? Barely a short nap.
It'd be really funny (to me) if the DCU not only existed in the MCU as films, but was wildly successful in a way that exceeds their struggles in the real world, but it'd probably come across as mean spirited, and probably a no-go simply based on 'no, we're not strongly promoting the movies/franchises trying to be our competition', but the thought made me chuckle all the same.
I'm assuming there was some *lengthy* chats between the two companies/their legal teams, just to make sure everything is cool and kosher.
It'd be really nice if it was kind of an olive branch to tone down the stupid tribalistic fan wars that erupt now and then, but those have persisted through the decades so I doubt a couple of throwaway lines will change much.
Now, if a future DCU film has a shoutout about someone calling The Avengers in case their plan to foil the big bad fails, we'll know something is truly afoot.
Or just a series of post credits stingers that start including actors from each other's franchises, just to spur millions of new posts per film coming out. It'd be exciting, in the way that surviving a natural disaster can be viewed (by some, in some circumstances) as "exciting".
Actors playing themselves playing their characters. Like Jason Momoa on the set of Aquaman and then Namor shows up and says something disparaging, then the same scene reverses for DC.
A "real" crossover would probably be hamstrung by the same fussiness DC brought to all the comic crossovers and considering some of the things that were done in the name of appeasement I'd rather it not leave the pages of a mostly non canon side show.
Elric first appeared in The Dreaming City in 1961.
He actually might have been a Conan guest star before that.
We're not given any reason to think Earth is special among the worlds to which Arishem has sent Eternals. Unless he just happens to know where all of the infinity stones are at any given time, he probably wasn't even aware of Thanos until the moment the Snap happened. Dude's area of influence is apparently "the entire universe". Individual beings, regardless of power, are probably beneath his notice.
The actual Eternals might have known a couple of infinity stones were on Earth given their apparent tendency to collect shit, but they've apparently been running mostly silent for a long-ass time. The general public didn't know about Thanos leading up to the Snap, so neither would they, and without specific knowledge they wouldn't have any reason to report it to Arishem and get new marching orders.
Once the Snap happened, what were they going to do? Thanos left Earth immediately for parts unknown. They couldn't go un-Snap everybody even if Arishem told them to.
a marvel / DC movie crossover would be neat considering the characters are more evenly matched on the screen
To be fair, Namor would probably destroy the production for the insult of implying that someone else ruled the oceans.
Knowing that, Thanos' little tantrum isn't going to be more than a minor hiccup in that plan, so by the same token, undoing it isn't going to be that big a deal either.
And you could also take Kingo's approach, sure - they undid the snap, but how many worlds and billions of people won't exist because Tiamat didn't emerge, do they cancel each other out?
Like I never give a shit about the physics of superheroes themselves but maybe give a seismologist a call before showing that.
It's the mass suicides that'd be the issue.
These kinds of concerns, while I understand where they’re coming from, are akin to worrying about the Death Star 2’s orbit on Endor.
It ain’t that kinda story.
MCU J. Jonah Jameson would be a big fan of The Boys.
They should be fairly matched in the comics as well, but DC has had long lists of demands every time a comic crossover has happened. Things like their biggest or currently trending characters can't lose to a Marvel character (this is why Lobo vs. Wolverine looks more like an awkward make out session than a fight), any time a knockoff pair appears the DC one has to be acknowledged or established as the stronger one (regardless which is the original and which is the knockoff) and so on.
This is why a bunch of DC characters have lifted Mjolnir or used Cap's shield (several at the same time) but the first time anyone from Marvel got a Lantern ring was in an unlicensed work from the guy who did the Serenity comic.
Edit: to be fair, Marvel has brought demands to the negotiation on these crossovers, too, but the inside accounts generally agree that DC made many non-negotiable demands and Marvel was left in the position of conceding or not making the comic.
Strange is messing with the eye of Agamotto.
Again.
Did you think they looked at the wrong date?
Did Wikipedia lead me astray? Such a thing has never happened! :hydra:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_(Dane_Whitman)
EDIT: Okay, upon research.
And that's kinda the whole movie. It's a story told in broad strokes. The closer you get to the center of the film, meaning Sersi, the slower it gets.
*shrug*