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Metroidvanias - Finest of all Genres

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I’m just about done with Ender Lilies. I’m mopping up missing stuff then I just have to beat the game.

    Getting that muhfucking platinum though.

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Shenl742 wrote: »
    It can be be a bit brutal. You're character is kinda squishy and can't take a lot of hits.

    I found this a really interesting dynamic. Though you do gain HP from pickups (and possibly by leveling up?), the total amount that you can actually improve your durability is fairly low, meaning early-game monsters remain nearly as much a threat to you as late-game monsters are (though those late-game monsters are also calibrated to the assumption that you've been finding those HP extenders). But your attack power scales quite a bit further out, meaning early game areas become easier over time because you can splatter the enemies, but not necessarily because you're actually safe in terms of durability. So basically you always have to keep on your toes. I like it.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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    The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2021
    I'd say The Messenger works fairly well as an entry level MV. From my playing so far (at the final boss now), it's kinda challenging but not super hard. It does have some tricky areas, particularly (obviously) more toward the end but it doesn't throw crazy hard combat or bosses or platforming at you constantly.

    The Geek on
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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    How's Ender Lillies difficulty compared to stuff like Hollow Knight?

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Lars wrote: »
    How's Ender Lillies difficulty compared to stuff like Hollow Knight?

    Very similar. Hollow Knight’s end game extra stuff is definitely harder but if you’re just talking base game it’s about the same.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Is the Messenger an MV? My impression was that it was more an homage to classic Ninja Gaiden

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    The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Is the Messenger an MV? My impression was that it was more an homage to classic Ninja Gaiden

    Part of the gimmick is that is starts that way.

    BLM - ACAB
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The Messenger has one of the best halfway changes ever

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    BaidolBaidol I will hold him off Escape while you canRegistered User regular
    Up to Chapter 5 in Ender Lillies. I'm liking the game but need to adjust to its slow combat pace. My dodges are typically too early so I keep taking facefulls of damage.

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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I'm a short ways into Ender Lilies, and I want to love it, but the full-stop that your regular attack forces is hard to get used to. Normally you don't lose momentum if you attack while airborne in these types of games. I wish it was a hair less Dark Souls and a hair more Hollow Knight. Just a hair! But it means I did put them game down after an hour instead of getting really sucked into it.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I’m on the very last boss of Ender Lilies and I find it annoying as fuck but it’s the last thing between me and the platinum trophy.

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    H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Is the Messenger an MV? My impression was that it was more an homage to classic Ninja Gaiden

    The answer to both statements is yes

    FFXIV: Agran Trask
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Do ya'll consider the Darksiders games to be Metroidvanias?

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2021
    Heffling wrote: »
    Do ya'll consider the Darksiders games to be Metroidvanias?

    They’re more Zeldas I would say

    Raijin Quickfoot on
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    The first one is more of a legend of zelda but there is certainly a decent argument that the zeldas, or at least some of the zeldas, are the same kinda genre.

    I don't know the sequels very well but it sounded like they were pretty different from the first one.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Ultimately Darksiders just borrows from a bunch of other games and amazingly makes it work.

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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Do ya'll consider the Darksiders games to be Metroidvanias?

    No because you're not required to go back to old dungeons to fetch stuff. The closest to that is Genesis, but that's purely for buffing your gear and stats, you never HAVE to revisit older levels.

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    TEXT:
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    Destroy, absorb and grow in this unforgiving Action-Adventure RPG. Also - your head is a black hole.

    Steam: http://bit.ly/GRIMESteam

    more store links in the replies!
    Destroy... Absorb... Grow... GRIME is a fast and unforgiving Action-Adventure RPG in which you crush your foes with living weapons that mutate form and function, and then consume their remains with a black hole to strengthen your vessel as you break apart a world of anatomical horror and intrigue.
    20210802 Grime (Metroidvania, Souls-like, Platformer, Exploration)


    oh yeah, in case you guys missed it, GRIME came out earlier this week

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    MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Do ya'll consider the Darksiders games to be Metroidvanias?

    No because you're not required to go back to old dungeons to fetch stuff. The closest to that is Genesis, but that's purely for buffing your gear and stats, you never HAVE to revisit older levels.

    To elaborate on this a tad:

    Darksiders 1 is very Ocarina of Time inspired.

    Darksiders 2 is an open world aRPG more like Diablo, where you're constantly getting loot with incremental upgrades. Really strong start.

    Darksiders 3 plays like Dark Souls, if Souls kept the being able to tank more than 3 hits - so a labyrinthine beat-em-up with more of an emphasis on environmental puzzles.

    Darksiders Genesis is a hub based, level based top down aRPG, but without the loot of Diablo. The maps are more built to be explored than grinded, and it was clearly meant for 2 people to play co op, but is still pretty fun.

    They cover a bunch of different genres, but they're all solidly B-/B+ games that are just very even.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Darksiders 1 is my favorite story that will probably never be finished even though I already know the ending

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Well now that 2, 3, and Genesis have told the stories about Death, Fury, and Strife, it's obvious 4 will be the post-1 continuation obviously. There absolutely will be a Darksiders 4 after all, why would you even assume otherwise.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Aistan wrote: »
    Well now that 2, 3, and Genesis have told the stories about Death, Fury, and Strife, it's obvious 4 will be the post-1 continuation obviously. There absolutely will be a Darksiders 4 after all, why would you even assume otherwise.

    Because I said Darksiders 1 for a reason. As fun as 2 and 3 were, they muddled the story into something entirely different from the one I enjoyed. Never played Genesis but it probably did the same thing. Even if they do a finale game it will not be the continuation of the story from the first one. And I have doubts they will do a finale game when they could drag things out further.

    Madican on
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    we are never going to get to the fireworks factory

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    War is Angry Link...

    Wait, didn't PA already do that joke?

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Well now that 2, 3, and Genesis have told the stories about Death, Fury, and Strife, it's obvious 4 will be the post-1 continuation obviously. There absolutely will be a Darksiders 4 after all, why would you even assume otherwise.

    Because I said Darksiders 1 for a reason. As fun as 2 and 3 were, they muddled the story into something entirely different from the one I enjoyed. Never played Genesis but it probably did the same thing. Even if they do a finale game it will not be the continuation of the story from the first one. And I have doubts they will do a finale game when they could drag things out further.

    I was being sarcastic, yes. Poorly, it seems. There probably won't be a Darksiders 4 and they will never continue the story.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    we are never going to get to the fireworks factory

    Sorry, we’re on our way to the box factory

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    War is Angry Link...

    Wait, didn't PA already do that joke?

    IaLTGzGl.jpg

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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    I've played every Darksiders game so far, and have nice and not nice things to say about each of them.
    1: My favorite, the tone of the story, combat, and puzzles all hang together very well. The plot is easily the best in the series, even though it's nothing spectacular. War is great, and his interactions with the other characters are the most enjoyable part of the story. It is EXTREMELY accurate to say this game is essentially just copying the homework of other, more original games, though. Like... none of the puzzle items are original, they are all very straightforward copies. That's lame, they absolutely should have mixed in completely fresh ideas with those they were inspired by.

    2: Very mixed bag followup. Letting you make your own build and customize how you can fight is really good, Death is a fine character. The size of the game is BLOATED though, and you can literally watch THQ fall apart retrospectively as you move from massive area, to slightly smaller but still massive area, to suddenly tiny area, to not even a real level area. Loot bloat is also pretty bad, I strongly dislike how every treasure in 1 was a worthwhile character advancement (or piece of an enhancement) while most of the chests and challenges in 2 just feed you random trash you might just instantly vendor. The story is... not very good. The new devs seem to think so as well, as 3 and Genesis go out of their way to have pretty much zero references that are only relevant to 2.

    3: The worst of the 3D's and it's not close. Exploring the areas is still interesting and the boss characters have decent designs still. Unfortunately, they took the copying homework trend to Dark Souls and did (imo) a very bad job of it. Every choice you can make to make the game less like Dark Souls is the correct choice to make the game more fun. Like, compare the Crucible arena from the first two games to the one in this game to really see what a misstep this design direction was. Fury kind of just sucks. The decision to go with a fragile Souls protagonist who can be chunked by a random group of 3 enemies if you're not careful has the extremely unfortunate effect of making the series' first female protagonist unarguably the weakest and least capable in the series. Also, the game runs TERRIBLY and while there were some patch efforts made, there weren't enough. This could really use some more QOL patching, but almost certainly won't get it.

    Genesis: Fun co-op gameplay, decent new game style. 100%ing all the puzzles and collectibles in each area is fun again for the first time since 1. Like 1, all of the upgrades are guaranteed useful, you aren't smashed with worthless loot like in 2 or consumable items like in 3. War is back and still good (not AS good) and Strife is pretty good in his first (co)starring role. The way the story is designed is sort of oddly focused on making what happens... not matter? in the scheme of things. Unfortunately, while this game is fun to play, it's also pretty clearly underbaked like 3. TONS of glitches, including hard crashes and the like. A lot of the optional challenges are ridiculous.

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Never played the sequels so thanks for the reviews. I think there's plenty other games in my back log I should focus on now.

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    the Another Metroid 2 Remake devs are announcing something soon :O
    https://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/2021/08/almost-5-years-later.html?m=1
    maybe they've been working on an original project they can sell, dare I hope?

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    am2r was better than the official remake by a country mile

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Blake T wrote: »
    I tapped out of of hollow knight eventually, the combat timing I never really got and I was stuck at a boss, and the five minutes it took to grind up health so I could practice against the boss I just couldn’t be bothered with anymore.

    What boss were you stuck at, out of curiosity?

    I don’t super remember, since it was maybe two years ago. Maybe something in that gothic area? Or like around there but like below and to the left?

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    apparently the main person behind AM2R, Milton Guasti, was already headhunted by the Ori devs and worked on Ori and the Will of the Wisps, so now I'm curious if it is in fact a new project and if it's from the Ori studio at large or a personal project.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I played and enjoyed Dante’s Inferno

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XZr8IS7gvQ

    the best part about darksiders is how broken everything gets when you speedrun

    you can animation cancel pretty much any animation into another animation if you mash hard enough, which lets you infinite dash (backwards), infinite jump and infinite attack, as long as you're willing to destroy your wrists/fingers

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Like that weird wrist trick Tetris champions are doing these days.

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Shenl742 wrote: »
    I think having an interconnected game world primarily gated by transversal based abilities is the only real qualifier you need to be a metroidvania, but genres are pretty flexible concepts.

    Hmm is Demon's Crest a metroidvania? I say yes.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Like that weird wrist trick Tetris champions are doing these days.

    Is that what they are calling it nowadays??

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I might suggest rogue legacy instead of dead cells, but mostly because you can feel the SotN influences more clearly.

    rogue legacy isn't a metroidvania in any sense. I'm pretty sure the entire map and most of the bosses are accessible as soon as you walk in the door. I feel like Returnal might skirt the edge of the genre though.

    There are some traversal abilities like double jump and air dash, though I'm not sure anything critical is actually locked behind them. The sequel does more to gate bosses behind them, but it's still fairly minimal and far more on the roguelite side of things.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Metroidvania or not Rogue Legacy fucking rules

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