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[Back 4 Blood] from the developers of L4D, Out Now and on Game Pass!

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  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    i love hoffmans' banter :o

    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
    urahonkyGrundlestiltskindrunkenpandaren
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    So the first set of card that I thought I could make a build out of was a dual primary

    I thought it would be cooler but it just doesn't feel that good. I'm currently trying it with the 80% Aim Speed / - 50% ADS movespeed and then whatever - 20% weakpoint damage, usually.

    Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
  • TertieeTertiee Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I haven't bought the game yet, but is there a place where we congregate to join up? Is Armadeaddon back online? Or discord?

    No, not that I've seen. I've asked in both the steam thread and this thread for groups but got no response.

    The Armadeaddon Steam group is still alive. Not as active as in its heyday but Back 4 Blood games are getting played there.

  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Is there anywhere that actually tells you what the different weapon stats do? My google-fu is coming up short...

  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    I don't think so, but I know Firepower is basically just damage. I wish I could do more with the colored tiers for guns and attachments since all the guns are grey and the attachments are legendary at the home base, so it's kind of hard to figure out what's what stats wise.

    But what I've been doing is just picking up a gun of the next tier if the overall item score is higher. So if I'm building SMGs and have a green UMP that has a higher gear score then a blue Uzi, I'd just stick with the UMP. Since I have better attachments on it over the Uzi on the ground. And sometimes it's super useful to carry those attachments over, I had a started Uzi with a legendary compressor/laser sight on it and a legendary mag, kept that until I found a better gun and another weapon box that allowed me to swap attachments over into the new gun. Because why can't I just easily swap attachments? Especially if I'm doing a no ADS build, I really don't need the optic slot filled when I could give that attachment to someone who does need it.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    As annoying as dailies can be. I wish this game had something to award you supply points/cosmetics more so than just doing runs/accomplishments and working the supply trains.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    Is there anywhere that actually tells you what the different weapon stats do? My google-fu is coming up short...
    I don't think so, but I know Firepower is basically just damage. I wish I could do more with the colored tiers for guns and attachments since all the guns are grey and the attachments are legendary at the home base, so it's kind of hard to figure out what's what stats wise.


    My gut is that the "firepower, accuracy, handling, mobility" stat numbers are no more valuable than the common "fake stat bars" present in many games to give you a very rough idea of how a weapon performs. Firepower for example isn't just damage. It's more like some abstraction of damage output rate. For example go to the gun range and look at the RPK and M249. The M249 is listed as having a slighter higher firepower but the RPK has a dramatically higher damage per round. I think that the M249 spits them out faster and has a slightly higher DPS, but if you're trying to ration ammo than the higher damage per shot of the RPK could be more advantageous. The trend can also be seen with the Beretta and the TEC 9. The TEC 9 has a higher firepower rating despite inflicting lower damage per shot than the Beretta.

    To expand on the "the displayed stat numbers are useless" is that upgrading the weapon's magazine will increase the firepower stat. But that ammo could do a number of different things. It might reload faster. It might stumble enemies more. It might be a larger magazine. It might do more damage. It might penetrate more targets. It's a whole rainbow of different effects, but they all increase the number the same way. So swapping since the number is higher is ill-advised since some buffs might be tremendously beneficial to a weapon while others could be significantly less valuable for a build. For example LMGs have terrible hipfire cones of fire and by default have slow ADS speeds. A stock that boosts ADS speed is a large boon to an LMG. "Upgrading" to a better stock that does something other than improving my ADS speed could very well be worse than sticking with the "lesser" stock that actually buffs what the build cares about.

    But to get back to the original question about what the "stats" do,
    Firepower: A rough abstraction of damage output rate.
    range: Gives an idea of the weapon's damage drop off rate
    accuracy: Gives a rough idea of a weapon's cone of fire
    handling: a rough indicator of things like recoil bloom rate, weapon swap speed, and aim down sight speed
    mobility: Gives an idea of how fast that you move while using the weapon. You move slight faster while things like handguns are equipped compared to something like an LMG.

    For the most part I recommend ignoring those above stats and caring more about the details of the attachments. Whether you want a compensator vs a laser sight, or +stumble ammo or a bigger magazine.


    I do wish that we had more details about the different color weapons though. I'm having a hard time judging precisely how a weapon improves with greater rarity. The attachments provide distinctly noticeable improvements to their specific stats. Is it worth giving up hand-picked attachments for a "better color" weapon? My gut says no. At least not for a step up of a single rarity. But I can't make a definitive claim without knowing details.

    3DS Friend Code:
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    SummaryJudgmentdrunkenpandaren
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Tertiee wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I haven't bought the game yet, but is there a place where we congregate to join up? Is Armadeaddon back online? Or discord?

    No, not that I've seen. I've asked in both the steam thread and this thread for groups but got no response.

    The Armadeaddon Steam group is still alive. Not as active as in its heyday but Back 4 Blood games are getting played there.

    Don't think I've ever been apart of that group.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    So the first set of card that I thought I could make a build out of was a dual primary

    I thought it would be cooler but it just doesn't feel that good. I'm currently trying it with the 80% Aim Speed / - 50% ADS movespeed and then whatever - 20% weakpoint damage, usually.

    I've been thinking about making a build around that too. I've seen some clips of people pumping out some intense damage output via combining double primaries with admin reload and weapon switch speed boosts. I think that they were using either double LMGs or LMG + SMG alongside weapon swap rate boosting cards to sidestep the lengthy reload timer on the LMGs. I do worry about that much dakka wasting precious ammo though, so maybe it might need to be paired with an ammo scavenging card.

    One interesting trait about the double-primary builds is that you effectively can build the perfect primary weapon via mod juggling. So let's say that you want to make a great LMG and you've decked out your green LMG with some nice mods. Later you find a blue LMG that you want to upgrade to. A normal build would have to sacrifice their mods to upgrade to the new higher rarity weapon. But a double-primary build has the option of adopting the higher rarity weapon while keeping ownership of the old weapon with the nice mods. Then you simply need to wait until you find any other mod for that slot, and you can then juggle attachments onto the new weapon.


    Similarly you can use your secondary weapon to bank nice mods until later in the match. For example, if you find a sweet purple or gold mod early in the match but don't want to "waste" it on your early game grey/green primary weapon, then you can equip it onto your secondary. Then just wait until you find a nice primary and then juggle mods once you find a mod of that slot lying on the ground somewhere. It's obvious once you realize it, but it occured to me in my last match when I found an early glock with a gold +reload speed/+damage magazine. That's when the thought occurred to me and I later attached a purple +ADS speed stock to the pistol. Several matches later I found a blue SAW and juggled the magazine and stock onto the SAW at the first opportunity. That SAW carried me through the rest of the match.


    I'm still trying to unlock some good cards myself. I just finally found Money Grubbers, so I think I'm cooking gas now on the economics side of things. I do still want to find some of the other scavenger cards. One card that I definitely want to play around more with is "Adrenaline Fueled." I'm not sure if the card is amazing or a trap. It provides a +100% boost to stamina capacity and additionally it regenerates 10 stamina instantly upon kill and an additional 10 of 5 seconds after that kill, but the downside is that it nerfs your passive stamina regeneration rate by 75%. It obviously has some synergy with "Run and Gun" by providing a means to regenerate stamina while sprinting, but I'm unsure if it is something that might be worth running on its own. On paper the payoff is that if lots of zeds are chasing you, you can burst the pack down with automatic fire to get a big spike of stamina. But is that worth the passive generation loss?

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I'm goofing around with a dual primary weapon deck that uses the admin reload for the reload when a weapon is stowed but I get 15% less ammo capacity and ammo stash which gives my secondary infinite ammo but my secondary weapon reloads 20% slower.

    It has been fun so far with some reload speed to offset ammo stash.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Played a couple of rounds last night with @Zomro and @SummaryJudgment. What I learned is 2 things:
    1. I am really good at the game when you compare me to PUGs. But people who are deep into the game are miles better than me lol
    2. Bad players are vastly worse than bots. Zomro and I picked picked up 2 randos when we started. Not only did we have to wait the full 3.5 minutes for them to join the game they were 100% not paying ANY attention to anyone. One went afk halfway through the map. The other watched me chase Zomro who was grabbed by the hag and just sat there doing nothing.

    SummaryJudgmentZomro
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Played a couple of rounds last night with @Zomro and @SummaryJudgment. What I learned is 2 things:
    1. I am really good at the game when you compare me to PUGs. But people who are deep into the game are miles better than me lol
    2. Bad players are vastly worse than bots. Zomro and I picked picked up 2 randos when we started. Not only did we have to wait the full 3.5 minutes for them to join the game they were 100% not paying ANY attention to anyone. One went afk halfway through the map. The other watched me chase Zomro who was grabbed by the hag and just sat there doing nothing.

    You were good! I had a great time, we breezed right through. :biggrin:

    Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    The same Hag carried me away twice in the same game! If we hadn't bailed on that group, I'd have probably been more annoyed at it, but the Hag just kept coming for me and I couldn't help but laugh at its persistence.

    urahonkyPreacher
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Zomro wrote: »
    The same Hag carried me away twice in the same game! If we hadn't bailed on that group, I'd have probably been more annoyed at it, but the Hag just kept coming for me and I couldn't help but laugh at its persistence.

    Must have been whatever deodorant you were wearing because she was out for blood... Especially since I was the one that startled her initially!

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Players are definitely worse than the zombies. Last night I had a game where one pubbie was always triggering hordes. Trigger happy and always shooting at every zombie that moved so at first we thought he was just fidgety, since he would shoot the snitch on sight. Then while fighting through an area car alarms and birds would go off, again... maybe just bullet penetration and being unlucky or not knowing. We tell him to relax and warn him about the snitch and birds. As we carefully circle around the next one he flagrantly shoots it this time. OK, super annoying, but he isn't actually shooting us... but then as we are looting a toolkit room he barges in with a tank of gas and tries to set us all on fire but ends up being the only one downed.

    It was incredibly satisfying leaving him there to bleed out as we finished the level.

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
    Local H Jay
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    One card that I definitely want to play around more with is "Adrenaline Fueled." I'm not sure if the card is amazing or a trap. It provides a +100% boost to stamina capacity and additionally it regenerates 10 stamina instantly upon kill and an additional 10 of 5 seconds after that kill, but the downside is that it nerfs your passive stamina regeneration rate by 75%. It obviously has some synergy with "Run and Gun" by providing a means to regenerate stamina while sprinting, but I'm unsure if it is something that might be worth running on its own. On paper the payoff is that if lots of zeds are chasing you, you can burst the pack down with automatic fire to get a big spike of stamina. But is that worth the passive generation loss?

    If you are Holly and run a melee build you never run out of stamina as long as you are hitting trash. It can also be mitigated by some mobility perks pretty easily which tend to give stamina regen and movement speed and overall stamina so I like them anyways

    Moridin889 on
    General_Armchair
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Yeah, Holly with adrenaline fuelled and the heal on melee kill can basically stand and swing a bat through a mob of any size as long as other people keep the specials off her

    urahonkyTalithGeneral_Armchair
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    When you have bots objectives/mutations are nicer on you. When you run a full 4 squad the game is like "Oh you a big boy now? Well big boy cards coming your way!"

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    I started this up a few days ago, but I think I finally understand the people saying recruit is too easy. My first several runs with randoms were just painful, with no coordination and people just dying left and right for indiscernable reasons. My first group last night was Act 1-4 (I think), where you have to put the explosives on the cruise ship. It took several tries just to get to the ship since people kept randomly getting downed which then set up a chain reaction of others getting downed trying to get the first guys up again. Once we get to the base, me and one other guy pick up the explosives and go to set them on the ship... but the other two guys don't bother to come help and just hang out at the base shooting stuff. Luckily we were able to 2-man setting the explosives and pass it, and then they dropped so I got a new group.

    This new group was just night and day. Not a single person on comms, dead silent, but at least competent. Staying together, one person with a toolkit opening every special door, people pinging first aid boxes and loot drops, actually breaking people out of grabs and spit. We breezed through like 6 more levels before someone dropped and then everyone else disappeared.

    So anyways, at this point it is absolutely clearly 100% the players that are creating the difficulty, at least on recruit. I'm enjoying being the melee tank on Holly. As far as I can tell, does melee not do friendly fire damage? Every once in a while I think I might hit someone, but often I'm just swinging into the horde with cleaners nearby and there is clearly no issue.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 Switch: 3304-2356-9421 Honkai Star Rail: 600322115 Battlenet: Travesty #1822
    urahonkyFencingsaxGeneral_Armchair
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Whoa. This is going to be a long post since I started replying to several people throughout the day but never had time to finish the post.

    Stragint wrote: »
    I'm goofing around with a dual primary weapon deck that uses the admin reload for the reload when a weapon is stowed but I get 15% less ammo capacity and ammo stash which gives my secondary infinite ammo but my secondary weapon reloads 20% slower.

    It has been fun so far with some reload speed to offset ammo stash.
    I guess if you're having fun with it then don't fix it, but my knee jerk reaction to that combination is that you have some anti-synergy going on there.

    Ammo stash provides infinite ammo for the sidearm, which IMO looks like a potentially strong effect. But the effect is lost if you replace the sidearm with a second primary weapon. At least that's what I've observed when I tried pairing dual primaries + infinite secondary ammo in a bot match to test out how the cards interacted.

    I also question the +reload speed boosts alongside admin reload. They both hasten reloads but they don't really compliment each other. I have to wonder if it would be more efficient to double down on admin reload with +weapon swap speed boosts.

    But if it's working for you, then don't fix what's not broke.
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    One card that I definitely want to play around more with is "Adrenaline Fueled." I'm not sure if the card is amazing or a trap. It provides a +100% boost to stamina capacity and additionally it regenerates 10 stamina instantly upon kill and an additional 10 of 5 seconds after that kill, but the downside is that it nerfs your passive stamina regeneration rate by 75%. It obviously has some synergy with "Run and Gun" by providing a means to regenerate stamina while sprinting, but I'm unsure if it is something that might be worth running on its own. On paper the payoff is that if lots of zeds are chasing you, you can burst the pack down with automatic fire to get a big spike of stamina. But is that worth the passive generation loss?

    If you are Holly and run a melee build you never run out of stamina as long as you are hitting trash. It can also be mitigated by some mobility perks pretty easily which tend to give stamina regen and movement speed and overall stamina so I like them anyways
    Yeah, Holly with adrenaline fuelled and the heal on melee kill can basically stand and swing a bat through a mob of any size as long as other people keep the specials off her

    Reading back I realized that I didn't properly articulate my concerns about adrenaline fueled. I agree with you both that it looks like it has strong synergy with melee builds and some other cards. To take a second attempt at voicing my concern, I'm concerned about whether or not the card is worth running in a vacuum as a deck's only stamina related card? Is that effect worth it on its own, or is it something that you only want to take if you can synergize it with something else?

    Zomro wrote: »
    The same Hag carried me away twice in the same game! If we hadn't bailed on that group, I'd have probably been more annoyed at it, but the Hag just kept coming for me and I couldn't help but laugh at its persistence.

    Flashbangs are a HUGE help in this situation. I highly recommend carrying some if you know that the mission will contain a hag, such as that one mission near the end of act 1. Someone was being eaten by a Hag last night and a flashbang made her abort the devour animation and spit them back out. Then she retreated after the flashbang wore off. I don't know if the retreat was part of a normal response to the flashbang or if we had DPS'd her below her retreat threshold during the stun duration. I'm also unsure if she'd spit them out after completing the devour animation or not.
    eMoander wrote: »
    I started this up a few days ago, but I think I finally understand the people saying recruit is too easy. My first several runs with randoms were just painful, with no coordination and people just dying left and right for indiscernable reasons. My first group last night was Act 1-4 (I think), where you have to put the explosives on the cruise ship. It took several tries just to get to the ship since people kept randomly getting downed which then set up a chain reaction of others getting downed trying to get the first guys up again. Once we get to the base, me and one other guy pick up the explosives and go to set them on the ship... but the other two guys don't bother to come help and just hang out at the base shooting stuff. Luckily we were able to 2-man setting the explosives and pass it, and then they dropped so I got a new group.

    I've seen this too. A lot of players seemingly clueless to the genre. A big issue is with people charging ahead oblivious to the fact that the person at the back of the group will get slowed when attacked by zeds. This leads to splitting the party and all of the problems associated with that. The chain reaction that you describe is what I refer to as a failure cascade. Where one failure can quickly lead to multiple failures as player judgement starts to falter and the team loses the capability to recover with every warm body lost. When things start getting hectic, it's important to keep your head on your shoulders like first responders do IRL. You can't save somebody until you verify that the situation is first under control, otherwise you are at risk of being hurt yourself and then there are TWO people that need saving. If somebody gets downed, it's important to secure the area before attempting to rez them. Maybe that means postponing the rez until a threat like a Hocker is first removed. Maybe that means waiting for a third player to cover you while you rez. Maybe that means tossing out a pipebomb or flashbang to buy some time for a rez. Sometimes you need to let them die since a heroic attempt to intervene would most likely result in two deaths instead of one.

    For the ferry mission that you mentioned, IMO it does make sense for someone to stay behind. They can provide covering fire with the chaingun to cover your escape from the boat. I don't think that two people need to stay behind though.

    Below is how I've been trying to carry random PUGs, although I'm not fully satisfied with this generalist build since I've still only used it in recruit and I'll probably be playing recruit for a few more days due to a friend of mine just starting out and he'll probably want to wait a bit before going to vet.
    1. My primary weapon of choice is an LMG, preferably an RPK due to higher damage per shot, due to how I perceive it as providing the potential to both deal with swarms and concentrate firepower on specials/bosses. I prioritize compensator/acog/stumble ammo/ADS boosting stock. I might take a different ammo if it's a gold double-ammo. Ammo conservation is a bit of a concern with LMGs though.
    2. I always carry toolkits with me since loot rooms tend to contain ammo, a medicine cabinet, and loot to help refresh the team.
    3. Flashbangs are my offensive consumable of choice since they can defang bosses and stop point blank tallboys in their tracks. Flashbangs/fireworks get honorable mention for helping secure an area for a rez though.
    4. I ideally run Hoffman since his ammo drop passive helps the team with ammo sustain, and the extra grenade helps keep sticky situations locked down. If someone else runs him though, then no big deal. The ammo will be dropping regardless. Maybe Jim or Doc for secondary choices for the extra aim speed or the teamwide heals/trauma resist?
    5. Avoid buying weapons/modules/gear at the shop unless it would provide a massive boost. Flashbangs before a boss fight, finally grabbing an ADS stock for my LMG, etc. The teamwide boosts provide better snowballing power by upgrading our gear.

    This is the current deck that I'm running, although it's still a big work in progress.

    4h0rhvq3a5sj.jpg

    The rationale behind the cards
    • 1-2: Get the economic cards rolling early so that they can snobwall into teamwide buff purchases and lategame affluence. I'm unsure if the "copper spawns more frequently" aspect of copper scavengers stacks with teammates or not. I've read conflicting opinions. However this is a PUB build, so it's assumed that teammates can't be depended upon to run copper scavenger.
    • 3-4: The combat knife has been nice for helping ration ammo by simply stabbing ambient trash instead of wasting bullets on them. Battle lust combined with the hunting knife provides a respectable amount of self-health sustain by healing me for dozens of HP per level. However I do wonder if it would be better to run ammo scavenger to provide more ammo, and whatever the name of the healing item scavenger card is to force more healing items to spawn> I don't have those cards yet though.
    • 5: Breakout. Simply put, pubs cannot be relied upon to free me from grabs. Since my quick-slot is occupied by a toolkit to reap the rewards of opening locked rooms, I'm stuck with this as my self-escape option.
    • 6: Steady aim: LMGs have poor ADS speed. This helps with that.
    • 7: Admin reload is here to help with the poor reload speeds of LMGs. I just unlocked this and used to run reload speed boosting cards here instead.
    • 8: Poultice provides what I feel to be a noticeable boost to early game low quality healing items, and makes late game rapid use bandages a desirable alternative to medkits.
    • 9: I FINALLY start grabbing some offensive boosting cards. Reckless strategy is currently the most potent weakpoint card that I own. I wish that damage came online sooner, but I feel like the above bases need to be covered a bit better if my teammates are playing like headless chickens in the earlier maps.
    • 10: More damage. In my eyes confident killer is effectively +15% global damage. It takes time to ramp up, but not that long.
    • 11: MOAR DAMAGE. I originally was going to run silver bullets here, but for LMGs I think tactical vests may be the better choice. I don't know if the extra bullet pen of silver bullets would be worth it.
    • 12: I'm not sure if grenade pouch is worth the deck slot. I'm torn between running something else, or running the "everyone on the team gets +1 grenade slot" card.
    • 13: I question if wounded animal is worth a slot. I'm continuing to experiment with it.
    • 14: Ridden slayer is more elite/monster weakpoint damage.
    • 15: I'm still just experimenting with adrenaline fueled. If I end up liking it, I may end up including it earlier in the list.


    Some idle thoughts:
    • Very few people are using sniper rifles and to a lesser extent shotguns. Assault rifle ammo is often in high demand, which means that there is a push to take efforts to ration LMG ammo.
    • I don't think that I can use a sniper rifle with pugs. The bolt action rifles seem like very viable weapons, but I need more potential to burst down masses of enemies when babysitting pugs. My knee-jerk reaction to the semi-auto snipers is that they fall into an awkward worst of both worlds position between ARs and the bolt actions, but I will need to try them again later.
    • I don't think that I can use shotguns with pugs either since Hockers are such a threat and I need the potential to reach out and delete them
    • I've heard reports that +accuracy effects tighten the spread of shotguns to the point that you effectively are shooting laser accurate slugs at very high accuracy values. I think that I eventually need to experiment with that once I have sufficient +accuracy cards.

    eMoander wrote: »
    So anyways, at this point it is absolutely clearly 100% the players that are creating the difficulty, at least on recruit. I'm enjoying being the melee tank on Holly. As far as I can tell, does melee not do friendly fire damage? Every once in a while I think I might hit someone, but often I'm just swinging into the horde with cleaners nearby and there is clearly no issue.

    There is no friendly fire on recruit, although players will complain about FF. I'm unsure about melee friendly fire, but I imagine that it's not present due to melee normally being friendly fire safe in this type of game and due to the fact that I've never heard the characters play FF voice lines when I turn around and stab a teammate in the face with my hunting knife.

    3DS Friend Code:
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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    God fuck pugs in this game. If you can't make it through the first level then we're in trouble.

    Preacher
  • AretèAretè infiltrating neo zeed compoundRegistered User regular
    I've only had a few straight up outright bad pubs, typically they either just bomb out spectacularly and quickly so I just get right back into queue (just grinding recruit right now on quickly for easy SP to build my deck out for veteran) or they are just not bad enough to limp across finish line, I collect my SP leave and requeue. My melee build though is pretty much at the point where in recruit and outside of Act 4, unless its just a straight up disaster of RNG or actively sabotaging by a player, I can effectively carry a team through nearly any mission.

  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    God fuck pugs in this game. If you can't make it through the first level then we're in trouble.

    I hate the levels where someone needs to carry something. Since that someone carrying the box is inevitably going to be me, and it's hard to carry the team if I'm carrying that box.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
    PreacherurahonkyFencingsax
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    God fuck pugs in this game. If you can't make it through the first level then we're in trouble.

    I hate the levels where someone needs to carry something. Since that someone carrying the box is inevitably going to be me, and it's hard to carry the team if I'm carrying that box.

    That's why you just carry it for a bit drop it to save everyone, and then pick it back up

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Aretè wrote: »
    I've only had a few straight up outright bad pubs, typically they either just bomb out spectacularly and quickly so I just get right back into queue (just grinding recruit right now on quickly for easy SP to build my deck out for veteran) or they are just not bad enough to limp across finish line, I collect my SP leave and requeue. My melee build though is pretty much at the point where in recruit and outside of Act 4, unless its just a straight up disaster of RNG or actively sabotaging by a player, I can effectively carry a team through nearly any mission.

    Yeah I'm not that good. It's usually:

    Spawn, wait the full 3.5 minutes until they are actually in the game.
    Run out with me and 1 other player.
    20 minutes later everyone starts moving.
    Teammates shoot literally everything that moves (even the ones behind fences)
    One gets grabbed because they fell behind.
    I get injured trying to rescue them.
    Another one runs back to the safe house.
    The other is charging ahead to solo the ogre.
    I rescue the one running back because of course they got hit by everything.
    I die and everyone runs around my corpse.

    I waste 30 minutes of my life and get 0 supply points.

  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    i like how you sometimes quick join a game where the team is more than 50% of the way through but it spawns you back at the starting safehouse and doesn't kick the bots you're replacing
    proper 6 man cleaner squad just mowing down zombos

    http://steamcommunity.com/id/urquanlord88
    urquanlord88.png
    Streaming 8PST on weeknights
    urahonkyAretèPreacherThegreatcow
  • AretèAretè infiltrating neo zeed compoundRegistered User regular
    The real icing on that particular cake is that you get the extra supply points for it being 6 cleaners instead of 4.

    If people are putting runs together in discord, I’m down to help people get through recruit. Got fam in town this weekend but am usually on around 9 CT weds/thur.

    urahonkyFencingsaxdrunkenpandaren
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    God fuck pugs in this game. If you can't make it through the first level then we're in trouble.

    I hate the levels where someone needs to carry something. Since that someone carrying the box is inevitably going to be me, and it's hard to carry the team if I'm carrying that box.

    That's why you just carry it for a bit drop it to save everyone, and then pick it back up

    I try to do that. The tricky bit is needing to backtrack for the second box since there are decent odds that nobody picked it up or that they dropped it somewhere along the way. It's like herding cats, and backtracking over old ground is a step too far. People get split up and then someone will get pounced by a sleeper in the next time zone. Things just get messy.
    urahonky wrote: »
    Aretè wrote: »
    I've only had a few straight up outright bad pubs, typically they either just bomb out spectacularly and quickly so I just get right back into queue (just grinding recruit right now on quickly for easy SP to build my deck out for veteran) or they are just not bad enough to limp across finish line, I collect my SP leave and requeue. My melee build though is pretty much at the point where in recruit and outside of Act 4, unless its just a straight up disaster of RNG or actively sabotaging by a player, I can effectively carry a team through nearly any mission.

    Yeah I'm not that good. It's usually:

    Spawn, wait the full 3.5 minutes until they are actually in the game.
    Run out with me and 1 other player.
    20 minutes later everyone starts moving.
    Teammates shoot literally everything that moves (even the ones behind fences)
    One gets grabbed because they fell behind.
    I get injured trying to rescue them.
    Another one runs back to the safe house.
    The other is charging ahead to solo the ogre.
    I rescue the one running back because of course they got hit by everything.
    I die and everyone runs around my corpse.

    I waste 30 minutes of my life and get 0 supply points.

    You're describing one of those failure cascades that I was talking about. I highlighted the portion where the odds are decent that you made a mistake. It can feel like being a real jerk to not make an attempt to save someone. But when the shit starts hitting the fan, sometimes you need to make triage decisions to emerge victorious. Think about real-life emergency responders. If you can't safely rescue the person, then your act of heroism is likely to result in two people that need rescuing and in turn make the situation much worse for the team as a whole. Better for someone to die and be tagged back into the match later in the level than for the whole team to wipe.

    The trick that I learned while playing Vermintide is that they key to clearing a challenging run is to watch your teammates carefully and try to identify if any of them are good players. When I say good players, I am not talking about technical proficiency when it comes to gunplay. That's appreciated but not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about trying to identify players who try to play as a team. Players who try to follow the buddy system. Players who look around themselves to remain aware of their teammates' locations. Players who are willing to make some kind of sacrifice for their teammates such as helping heal damage. If such a player is on your team, then your mission is to stick to that guy like glue and keep him safe. While you shouldn't immediately write-off the other players, saving the speedrunner who is 12 miles ahead or the slowpoke 12 miles behind is a distant secondary objective to keeping Mr. Teamwork alive. Since communication is often at a minimum in a pug, just follow Mr. Teamwork's lead. If he tries to save somebody from certain doom, then just follow him into the mouth of Hell. At the very least you can do your best to provide covering fire. It's better for the team to work in unison with a bad plan than for one guy to follow an ideal plan with no support. You can't control the rest of the team, but by universally supporting the most teamwork-oriented pug member you can at least ensure that half of the team is working in concert together. You might still fail, but in my experience sticking with Mr. Teamwork provides the best odds of success.

    Not all teams have a Mr. Teamwork though. There are a LOT of lone wolves out there. But you often only need one other teamwork oriented person on the team to emerge victorious against very sour odds since teamwork is OP.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
    PreacherurahonkyUrQuanLord88
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    The loading times for people on toaster computers are so atrocious. What I would give for a next gen consoles and pcs with nvme ssds only queue for this and many other games .

    There has to come a time when we say “ok making everyone else in the game wait 4 minutes for you to load when it took them 10 seconds is cruel and unusual punishment” right? Right?! :(

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
    urahonky
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Just let me buy my supplies and take a look around the safe room while everyone goes and grabs another bag of doritos.

    Moridin889
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I did a quick match for veteran act 1 and I got into a run on a mission I haven't progressed to yet in veteran.

    It was pretty awful. One person booked it ahead of the team and got grabbed by a stalker. No one was near them at all so they died. Then an ogre spawned and another person booked it instead of killing the ogre and we wiped pretty miserably.

    That was not great.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    The loading times for people on toaster computers are so atrocious. What I would give for a next gen consoles and pcs with nvme ssds only queue for this and many other games .

    There has to come a time when we say “ok making everyone else in the game wait 4 minutes for you to load when it took them 10 seconds is cruel and unusual punishment” right? Right?! :(

    Is it loading times? I was assuming that it was just silly geese failing to ready up.


    Anyway, someone pointed me to this site where some statistics about the weapons are being collected: https://statty.net/

    The numbers are kind of interesting. It looks like the damage increase rates are not uniform among weapons. Like the m4 increases by 15% per tier with a ~52% difference between grey and purple. Meanwhile an Ak-47 increases by 20% per tier and totals out with a 72% difference between grey and purple. A handful of the weapons don't increase by the same rate per tier. Looking at some of these numbers, I guess a few weapons will want to upgrade to purple at the first opportunity with attachments be damned.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    I guess people just enjoy wasting their time? It doesn't make any sense to me.

  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Some people watch the videos as well. The first couple days it came out and you started a fresh run you could be waiting 5 minutes.

  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    I understand watching the videos, but I've seen some people wait out the full timer on regular matches every time. To the point where it's gotta be either ignorance of the ability to ready up, or intentional. Which is really annoying since that wastes a TON of time over the course of a whole act.

    I can understand occasionally waiting since the acts are so long that I can understand someone needing to run to the restroom or grab a glass of water, but it's just annoying when it's every match.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
    Preacher
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Tonight I finally got the card that buffs reload by a bunch but removed ADS

    Extremely good for shotguns

    It's like someone is shooting the bullets into my gun

    General_Armchair
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    I just completed my first act after unlocking Money Grubbers. Hot DAMN. This card is on my suspect list for getting a nerf. It seems to be head and shoulders over the other economic cards.

    My plan to build a super-weapon during the run failed though. On the first or second mission, I found Deagle and slowly started accruing the best mods that I could find for an LMG build. Purple compensator, gold stumble/capacity ammo, purple acog, and purple ADS stock. I waited the whole match to find a purple LMG so that I could then shuffle the mods onto it. A purple LMG never spawned.

    I did find Ammo scavenger though. I'll probably try equipping that just to see how much ammo that it spawns. I wonder if it will be enough to make a double LMG build viable in terms of ammo consumption?

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    One thing that has been bugging me, especially on builds without +reload speed or on maps where I haven't drawn the card yet, it is a PAIN having the watch the character pull the charging handle every single time. You don't need to do that if there is still a round in the chamber!

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Was having a good act 2 run, and then my series X like hard crashed and had to be rebooted. Someone said that's like a memory leak issue? I dunno it sucked couldn't reconnect to the game.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    What do the golden skulls in the game give? My friend and I got them all but we don't know what we got besides achievements.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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