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[PC Build Thread] Rumor has it there are GPU's in the wild

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Dammit, my cpu cooler is not compatible with the LGA1700 and the options for itx lga 1200 seem pretty limited.

    Unless I'm missing something with the capabilities of the thermaltake water 3.0 riing 360 system.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    welp :(

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Dammit, my cpu cooler is not compatible with the LGA1700 and the options for itx lga 1200 seem pretty limited.

    Unless I'm missing something with the capabilities of the thermaltake water 3.0 riing 360 system.

    Looks like it's on this page, you should email them.
    https://www.thermaltake.com/thermaltake-support-intel-lga1700-socket#page6

    Oh, I guess it's not on the list, their product names are dumb and confusing. You should still email them.

    tsmvengy on
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    IanatorIanator Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and facepalm.Registered User regular
    Victory! Computer is up and running again!

    And what did I put into it?

    ...It's a GT1030, that's what. Beats my 10-years-old 560Ti though.

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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Replacement cooler came... first try it was idling at 70 again and I was pissed, but after carefully reseating the cooling block it is idling at 50, so that's a win. Hopefully this one lasts longer than the first one... I guess worst case I find out if the free second year warranty from Costco is worth anything.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    @Gilgaron by any chance is this a 12th Gen Intel CPU? If so, GN discovered that the CPU bracket causes the processor to have uneven contact with the heatsink.

    Derbauer (I believe) released a new CPU bracket that's a drop-in replacement and fixes the problem

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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    No this is an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, I bought a prebuilt MSI Aegis system and the AIO cooler stopped cooling effectively and I stumbled across a recall on their AIOs where sediment would build up. They swapped it out but it was more annoying than it needed to be because they couldn't cross ship a prebuilt system component, although apparently if I'd bought the cooler standalone they could have from the recall terms. In any case they did at least provide expedited shipping and didn't make me ship the whole system back.

    I did have trouble getting the thumbscrews to evenly apply tension on the brackets but after a bit of fussing they tightened down appropriately.

    Gilgaron on
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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    According to thermaltake I can mount the psu vertically with a mini-atx which is awesome, but for some reason the very specific AIO cooler doesn't have a lga1700 adaptor, the connector looks the same as their ARGB line which does have an adaptor so I'm pushing for an explanation.
    https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-water-3-0-riing-rgb-360-liquid-cooling-system/p/N82E16835106390?Item=9SIA6ZP3UJ4412

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    useruser Registered User regular
    I mean, LGA 1700, is specifically not a very square shape -- its quite rectangular, so even if I had a cooler with a bracket that adapted to it, I wouldn't trust that the cold plate closely matched the hot spots on the die.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    user wrote: »
    I mean, LGA 1700, is specifically not a very square shape -- its quite rectangular, so even if I had a cooler with a bracket that adapted to it, I wouldn't trust that the cold plate closely matched the hot spots on the die.

    I find it weird because the rest of the AIO coolers that do support LGA1700 are also square

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Well, installing the other M.2 drive was made annoying by the fact that the area it sits in is really narrow thanks to the 2.5 slot video card.

    I got the motherboard heatsink off well enough, but getting the new drive in place required some creative hand positioning. Then getting the screw down to the standoff needed some bluetac. Then I needed long tweezers to get the blutac off so I could screw it in properly.

    But it's done. Transferring 500gb of games from one SSD to the other took all of 5 minutes, which is crazy. On my old laptop, transferring something like Total War Warhammer 2 alone would take that long, and Total War Warhammer 3 is nearly twice as big.

    Now to find an easy way to clone my Windows install, since it's currently on my SATA SSD and my original 1tb PCIE4 is empty.

    -Loki- on
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    MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Seriously tempted to upgrade my r5 3600 to an r7 5700x or 5800x and bump up to 32gb ram.

    Tell me I don't need to do this folks and I should just wait for the am5 chips to launch and be patient for price drops...

    Mulletude on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    If you wait for the AM5 chips (AM4 is what they are now) you'll be looking at not only a new motherboard, but also DDR5 RAM, which is still pretty expensive.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Well, installing the other M.2 drive was made annoying by the fact that the area it sites in is really narrow thanks to the 2.5 slot video card.

    I got the motherboard heatsink off well enough, but getting the new drive in place required some creative had positioning. Then getting the srew down to the standoff needed some bluetac. Then I needed long tweezers to get the blutac off so I could screw it in properly.

    But it's done. Transferring 500gb of games from one SSD to the other took all of 5 minutes, which is crazy. On my old laptop, transferring something like Total War Warhammer 2 alone would take that long, and Total War Warhammer 3 is nearly twice as big.

    Now to find an easy way to clone my Windows install, since it's currently on my SATA SSD and my original 1tb PCIE4 is empty.

    Highly recommend Macrium Reflect

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Mulletude wrote: »
    Seriously tempted to upgrade my r5 3600 to an r7 5700x or 5800x and bump up to 32gb ram.

    Tell me I don't need to do this folks and I should just wait for the am4 chips to launch and be patient for price drops...

    I'm already seeing 5800s and 5900s on the secondary market for good prices and they recently had a sale for new

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Well, installing the other M.2 drive was made annoying by the fact that the area it sites in is really narrow thanks to the 2.5 slot video card.

    I got the motherboard heatsink off well enough, but getting the new drive in place required some creative had positioning. Then getting the srew down to the standoff needed some bluetac. Then I needed long tweezers to get the blutac off so I could screw it in properly.

    But it's done. Transferring 500gb of games from one SSD to the other took all of 5 minutes, which is crazy. On my old laptop, transferring something like Total War Warhammer 2 alone would take that long, and Total War Warhammer 3 is nearly twice as big.

    Now to find an easy way to clone my Windows install, since it's currently on my SATA SSD and my original 1tb PCIE4 is empty.

    Highly recommend Macrium Reflect

    Grabbed the free home trial. I'll give it a shot on the weekend.

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    useruser Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Well, installing the other M.2 drive was made annoying by the fact that the area it sites in is really narrow thanks to the 2.5 slot video card.

    I got the motherboard heatsink off well enough, but getting the new drive in place required some creative had positioning. Then getting the srew down to the standoff needed some bluetac. Then I needed long tweezers to get the blutac off so I could screw it in properly.

    But it's done. Transferring 500gb of games from one SSD to the other took all of 5 minutes, which is crazy. On my old laptop, transferring something like Total War Warhammer 2 alone would take that long, and Total War Warhammer 3 is nearly twice as big.

    Now to find an easy way to clone my Windows install, since it's currently on my SATA SSD and my original 1tb PCIE4 is empty.

    Highly recommend Macrium Reflect

    Grabbed the free home trial. I'll give it a shot on the weekend.

    Macrium Reflect Free is a great product and does what you need. Incidentally I built my dad a new PC and it saved the build, when there was absolutely no way to tell which 2TB drive was the NVMe drive, installing Windows 11, (guessed wrong, Macrium Reflect fixed it).

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Mulletude wrote: »
    Seriously tempted to upgrade my r5 3600 to an r7 5700x or 5800x and bump up to 32gb ram.

    Tell me I don't need to do this folks and I should just wait for the am4 chips to launch and be patient for price drops...

    If you're going to upgrade a Zen2, shoot for a Zen3D. They're available now and prices have already come down. By all accounts, when that chonky 96MB cache helps, it really helps.

    If the upgrade itch is becoming unbearable: Now is a good time to get DDR4 though, it's bottoming out in price.

    $95 for 32GB of DDR4 3600 / CAS 18 https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-Create-overclocking-3600MHz-Desktop/dp/B091FKD2N3

    Not the swankiest spec'd RAM, but under a hundo for 32GB of 3600MT is a straight up bargain

    V1m on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    user wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Well, installing the other M.2 drive was made annoying by the fact that the area it sites in is really narrow thanks to the 2.5 slot video card.

    I got the motherboard heatsink off well enough, but getting the new drive in place required some creative had positioning. Then getting the srew down to the standoff needed some bluetac. Then I needed long tweezers to get the blutac off so I could screw it in properly.

    But it's done. Transferring 500gb of games from one SSD to the other took all of 5 minutes, which is crazy. On my old laptop, transferring something like Total War Warhammer 2 alone would take that long, and Total War Warhammer 3 is nearly twice as big.

    Now to find an easy way to clone my Windows install, since it's currently on my SATA SSD and my original 1tb PCIE4 is empty.

    Highly recommend Macrium Reflect

    Grabbed the free home trial. I'll give it a shot on the weekend.

    Macrium Reflect Free is a great product and does what you need. Incidentally I built my dad a new PC and it saved the build, when there was absolutely no way to tell which 2TB drive was the NVMe drive, installing Windows 11, (guessed wrong, Macrium Reflect fixed it).

    This is exactly what happened to me, installing Windows 10.
    Which drive would you like to install Windows to?
    SSD - 1tb
    SSD - 1tb

    Yes thank you Windows that is most helpful.

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Yeah this is why I used to always just plug in the one SATA boot drive back in the day.

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    OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    So potentially kind of a weird build scenario for me - I haven’t upgraded anything on my old desktop for something like a decade, so I’m in complete new build territory. I’m used to aiming for gaming performance, but all I really need for this box is something that can do pretty basic office tasks across two monitors as cheaply as possible… with the caveat that I might want to drop a new video card in here one day for gaming.

    So, basically: Is there a decent way to throw together a solid $500 - $600 dollar build that is just missing a video card for gaming performance? I feel like grabbing a motherboard and processor that can handle a couple of video outs might be pushing it in that price range, but that’s just a hunch.

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    wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    I still only plug in one drive when installing windows. When I did a new build I have 3 nvme drives in it (500GB for windows, 1TB for data, 1TB for games that I pulled from my old build). It was a pain in the ass to install windows, then turn it off and take the GPU out to install the other two drives, but the 15 minutes of effort is always worth it.

    I'm also a little OCD and never liked that if you have multiple drives when you install windows it will by default stick the page file and some other stuff on the other drives, which I don't like.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    So potentially kind of a weird build scenario for me - I haven’t upgraded anything on my old desktop for something like a decade, so I’m in complete new build territory. I’m used to aiming for gaming performance, but all I really need for this box is something that can do pretty basic office tasks across two monitors as cheaply as possible… with the caveat that I might want to drop a new video card in here one day for gaming.

    So, basically: Is there a decent way to throw together a solid $500 - $600 dollar build that is just missing a video card for gaming performance? I feel like grabbing a motherboard and processor that can handle a couple of video outs might be pushing it in that price range, but that’s just a hunch.

    Some ideas: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vwjrRv

    I tried to pick things like case, PSU, etc. that someone would be happy with longer-term rather than hit the absolute lowest price point.

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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    I made 2 mistakes when I used Reflect.

    First, the old drive was smaller and I didn’t check the box to account for that.

    Second, I got confused because the new drive automatically got renamed C:

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    OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    So potentially kind of a weird build scenario for me - I haven’t upgraded anything on my old desktop for something like a decade, so I’m in complete new build territory. I’m used to aiming for gaming performance, but all I really need for this box is something that can do pretty basic office tasks across two monitors as cheaply as possible… with the caveat that I might want to drop a new video card in here one day for gaming.

    So, basically: Is there a decent way to throw together a solid $500 - $600 dollar build that is just missing a video card for gaming performance? I feel like grabbing a motherboard and processor that can handle a couple of video outs might be pushing it in that price range, but that’s just a hunch.

    Some ideas: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vwjrRv

    I tried to pick things like case, PSU, etc. that someone would be happy with longer-term rather than hit the absolute lowest price point.

    Wow, thanks - I wasn’t expecting anybody to throw together a whole build for me, I just wanted to take the temperature on current pricing in non-GPU parts.

    But yeah, that looks pretty much exactly like what I was hoping for, thank you.

    I’m a little surprised you used Intel over AMD since I think of Intel as carrying a premium for comparable performance in most uses - is that not the case currently?

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    CormacCormac Registered User regular
    For the past couple of generations AMD pulled a pretty big lead on Intel in basically all aspects other than max clock speed. Intel's current 12th gen brought back near performance parity to AMD but uses a lot more power. Right now you can safely buy either since they comparable chips cost nearly the same depending on what price or performance bracket you're in.

    Intel's 12th gen does support DDR5 which is incredibly expensive and doesn't offer any noticeable gains over DD4. AMD's new CPU's coming something in the next 3-6 months will bring DDR5 support as well as a new socket type. DDR5 will eventually come good but nothing right now or in the immediate future benefits from it. Once nice thing about Intel's 12th gen is that it still supports DDR4, depending on the motherboard, but AMD's new AM5 CPU's will not have DDR4 support.

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Mostly went Intel because if you don't want a GPU quite yet you need something with integrated graphics. And that to me is a better deal with Intel.

    But you could go for the AMD 5600G which has a pretty good sale on now ($150) and you could do an AM4 motherboard for around $100.

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    useruser Registered User regular
    12th Gen Intel makes a case with its e-cores as a good idea for light office work and internet browsing, so that's why I went for it with my dad's machine. I mean I definitely cede the 12900K has an edge over Ryzen AM4, in terms of raw performance in gaming (but not efficiency!) but I've got no comfortable way to disperse all of that extra heat (it just ends up in my home), so pass for me.

    But let me tell you -- a lot of years doin Ryzen only builds, I was very out of practice with dealing with LGA pins on the mobo, and it was super dicey and fraught the way they have you do it hah...

    Makes good practice since AM5 is dropping PGA.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    12th Gen Intel are actually very efficient. They're generally at least on a par with AMD equivalents, and once performance is factored in they can be more efficient overall. The only real difference is that they have higher power draw when all cores are loaded (which typically only happens in a heavy productivity environment). Even then, it's only really the 12900k that goes to extremes with power draw.

    For most uses they'll be about as efficient as AMD.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    We’re at the point right now (read: We haven’t seen what the Ryzen 7000 series is doing fully yet) where you could go with either company and you’d have a machine you’re happy with

    It’s not like the utter disaster that was the Intel 11th gen line

    jungleroomx on
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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    11th Gen was a disaster due to backporting a design meant for 10nm onto their 14nm process. That was never going to end particularly well. Even then it wasn't entirely without caveats. The worst power draw for 11th gen was when using AVX-512 - but the performance you got for it was in a different league to processors that didn't support those instructions in hardware - something like 3x faster. So if you had heavy AVX-512 workloads, it probably still made some degree of sense. Of course nobody really had those sorts of workloads (at least not at the consumer level).

    What's interesting is that Intel did add AVX-512 support to Alder Lake (12th Gen), but pulled it at the last minute. The problem was they added it to the P-Cores, but not to the smaller E-Cores. This is pretty reasonable given the role of each, but it caused trouble with instructions available on one core and not on another. On some Alder Lake motherboards you can actually still enable AVX-512 support, but you have to disable the E-cores (although they may have fused this off in later revisions). It seems they aren't adding it to Raptor Lake either (13th gen), so who knows what they'll do with the technology in the long run. Ironically, the AMD 7000 series processors are rumoured to support AVX-512.

    Either way, AVX-512 is niche enough for the time being that it has no meaningful impact to consumers.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    The 11th Gen was just the dying gasp of the technical complacency culture that Intel had built up over 10 years of just absolutely dominating with the i Series chips. Then AMD unfucked themselves and took over in new sales in 2-3 years.

    To Intels credit their self-correction was insanely fast for such a large company making possibly the most complex thing on planet earth.

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    FremFrem Registered User regular
    The 11th Gen was just the dying gasp of the technical complacency culture that Intel had built up over 10 years of just absolutely dominating with the i Series chips.

    Are we sure it was that and not just the result of Intel frantically scrambling to launch something after the pandemic ruined carefully laid plans?

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Why not both?

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    useruser Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    11th Gen was a disaster due to backporting a design meant for 10nm onto their 14nm process. That was never going to end particularly well. Even then it wasn't entirely without caveats. The worst power draw for 11th gen was when using AVX-512 - but the performance you got for it was in a different league to processors that didn't support those instructions in hardware - something like 3x faster. So if you had heavy AVX-512 workloads, it probably still made some degree of sense. Of course nobody really had those sorts of workloads (at least not at the consumer level).

    What's interesting is that Intel did add AVX-512 support to Alder Lake (12th Gen), but pulled it at the last minute. The problem was they added it to the P-Cores, but not to the smaller E-Cores. This is pretty reasonable given the role of each, but it caused trouble with instructions available on one core and not on another. On some Alder Lake motherboards you can actually still enable AVX-512 support, but you have to disable the E-cores (although they may have fused this off in later revisions). It seems they aren't adding it to Raptor Lake either (13th gen), so who knows what they'll do with the technology in the long run. Ironically, the AMD 7000 series processors are rumoured to support AVX-512.

    Either way, AVX-512 is niche enough for the time being that it has no meaningful impact to consumers.

    I'll add that for gamers (like ostensibly we might be, being on this Penny-Arcade forum), that AVX-512 has a niche use case in 32 and 64-bit era Console game emulation.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    We’re at the point right now (read: We haven’t seen what the Ryzen 7000 series is doing fully yet) where you could go with either company and you’d have a machine you’re happy with

    It’s not like the utter disaster that was the Intel 11th gen line

    I am also very happy to see real competition and real generational advances. Plenty of cores! New cache architectures! Swanky power/frequency/voltage management! A bunch of other stuffs that I kind of don't understand but sound swank as heck! Prices that actually fall after launch!

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    How true is the 12th gen Intel needing Win 11 to run properly?

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    How true is the 12th gen Intel needing Win 11 to run properly?

    Fairly true, and will probably be true of all future intel designs. The win 10 thread scheduler isn't cut out for dealing with performance difference between different core types.

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    wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    yeah 12th gen will run on Windows 10 just fine, not like it won't work. But thread scheduler, think the bit of the OS that decides which CPU cores to use for which process, isn't aware of the differences between the big cores and the little cores.

    So on a heavy single threaded task there's a chance that Windows 10 would throw that on an e-core which is slower and result in less performance for that task, or it might also throw a very light task onto a p-core that will use way more power to accomplish the same task.

    So while it'll work, and work fine, you're kind of defeating the purpose of having the big/little architecture if you stick with Windows 10.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    I wonder if there's a technical reason 10 can't be made to use the 12th gen intel architecture properly, or if it's just MS figuring only supporting it in the newer version is a good way to incentivize migrating to that product they naturally want people to move to. I don't know fuck and all about that level of technical stuff so it could be either and I wouldn't be able to tell.

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