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[Star Trek] Baby Targ, Doot Doo etc. (Lower Decks S2 + Prodigy S1 + Disco S4 in spoilers)

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Lower Decks s2e4
    Why is there a sexual content warning on this episoh no. OH NO.

    MorganVKing Riptor
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Lower Decks s2e4
    Why is there a sexual content warning on this episoh no. OH NO.

    This is probably my least favorite episode so far. A few things just did not work for me and it kind of felt like a random Family Guy episode for stretches

    Yet there were still some great bits that I loved

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
    Golden Yak
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    I finished Voyager and now will *sigh* try Enterprise, I guess.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Like Voyager, I have Enterprise head canon that helps: Archer is absolutely incompetent and has the job for all the wrong reasons.

    The show actually gets into this later, he was in a test pilot program for one man warp ships, and the first pilot to hit warp 5 was promised the captain's chair on the Enterprise, even though nobody in the program had command qualifications. He's interviewing for mail room and got made CEO.

    StrikorRingoZilla360rahkeesh2000GiantGeek2020
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.

    CambiatashrykeGnome-Interruptushonovere
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    StrikorMorganVHahnsoo1BloodySlothBlackDragon480AbsoluteZeroCommander ZoomMatevCambiataMsAnthropyoverride367Zilla360shrykehonovereCaedwyrDoctorArchmaraji
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I finished Voyager and now will *sigh* try Enterprise, I guess.

    Its Disco prequel seasons without the good parts of the prequels season(Spock, Pike and seeing the actual Enterprise, not the shitty Akira variant they claim is the original Enterprise). The POC parts of the crew; Mayweather and Hoshi, have less focus on them than O'Brien does in TNG. T'pol is an interesting character, when she isn't used as blatant fanservice. Archer is a stupid jackass with the diplomatic persona of a modern day Karen and the leadership skill of a McD's assistant shift manager. As much as people bitch about Michael Burnham being the center of Disco, Archer being in any position of responsibility and being proven right because the writers says so will drive you mad.

    The rest are okay and that is the best thing you can say about them.

    What I am saying is that The Orville is on Disney+ and you should watch that instead. Seth McFarland plays a much better character in the Orville than he does in Enterprise.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    sig.gif
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I finished Voyager and now will *sigh* try Enterprise, I guess.

    Its Disco prequel seasons without the good parts of the prequels season(Spock, Pike and seeing the actual Enterprise, not the shitty Akira variant they claim is the original Enterprise). The POC parts of the crew; Mayweather and Hoshi, have less focus on them than O'Brien does in TNG. T'pol is an interesting character, when she isn't used as blatant fanservice. Archer is a stupid jackass with the diplomatic persona of a modern day Karen and the leadership skill of a McD's assistant shift manager. As much as people bitch about Michael Burnham being the center of Disco, Archer being in any position of responsibility and being proven right because the writers says so will drive you mad.

    The rest are okay and that is the best thing you can say about them.

    What I am saying is that The Orville is on Disney+ and you should watch that instead. Seth McFarland plays a much better character in the Orville than he does in Enterprise.

    Wait, The Orville is on Disney Plus? I can finally watch it!

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    MsAnthropyRingo
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Lower decks S2E4
    Im going to be saying "Haven't you heard of Quark?" forever

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    Ent S3 did two things right. 1) It more or less ended the temporal cold war BS, 2) it ended in a giant WW2 battle between nazi's with space weapons and the Enterprise. I mean, it was utterly stupid, but at least it was sort of a callback to TOS era silliness (specifically reminding me of a fight in the 25th Anniversary TOS game), and it was sort of fun.

    S4 was actually approaching decent, but I only made it there because it was Trek, any other show and I would have hit the eject button so it's hard for me to blame you. Unlike other Trek shows, I'm not even going to spend time convincing you to go back and check out S4 just by itself. Enterprise is entirely skippable.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    Ent S3 did two things right. 1) It more or less ended the temporal cold war BS, 2) it ended in a giant WW2 battle between nazi's with space weapons and the Enterprise. I mean, it was utterly stupid, but at least it was sort of a callback to TOS era silliness (specifically reminding me of a fight in the 25th Anniversary TOS game), and it was sort of fun.

    S4 was actually approaching decent, but I only made it there because it was Trek, any other show and I would have hit the eject button so it's hard for me to blame you. Unlike other Trek shows, I'm not even going to spend time convincing you to go back and check out S4 just by itself. Enterprise is entirely skippable.

    S4 is the no Berman season. Focuses on a lot more interesting things. And probably the only okay season of the bunch.

    u7stthr17eud.png
    Commander ZoomStrikorvalhalla130This
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    Ent S3 did two things right. 1) It more or less ended the temporal cold war BS, 2) it ended in a giant WW2 battle between nazi's with space weapons and the Enterprise. I mean, it was utterly stupid, but at least it was sort of a callback to TOS era silliness (specifically reminding me of a fight in the 25th Anniversary TOS game), and it was sort of fun.

    S4 was actually approaching decent, but I only made it there because it was Trek, any other show and I would have hit the eject button so it's hard for me to blame you. Unlike other Trek shows, I'm not even going to spend time convincing you to go back and check out S4 just by itself. Enterprise is entirely skippable.

    S4 is the no Berman season. Focuses on a lot more interesting things. And probably the only okay season of the bunch.

    There are some great individual episodes of Enterprise, occluded by a sea of mediocre and Very Bad ones. Season one’s The Andorian Incident is one of my favourite episodes across all the series.

    I actually think it benefits from streaming, because the blah ones I might’ve turned off on broadcast, but they’re good enough that letting them roll in a streaming binge is less effort than not.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    sig.gif
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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Newest Lower Decks isn't as good as the previous episode, but that's a really hard act to follow. This did have a couple solid gags
    The grifting alien

    Diplomath: The crappy Federation Tongo Knockoff

    Ta'ana going full cat at the vet once Tendi realizes she's the last patient


    and I'll admit, the mating Mutagos did make me laugh a bit cause of Rutherford and Boimler's commentary/panic.

    It was fine. Maybe more of a first season outing, but hardly bad TV

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
    Ringo
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    You are apparently not the only one, between A night in the Sickbay and the S3 cliffhanger(done ironically enough to get people to tune into S4 by Braga), its considered one of those points where people noped out of the show and stopped tunning in. the S3 cliffhanger was in many ways the episode that killed the series.

    Also The Orville is on D+ in Europe at least, I am not sure about you US folks, but since they own everything 20th Century Fox created, it should be.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Newest Lower Decks isn't as good as the previous episode, but that's a really hard act to follow. This did have a couple solid gags
    The grifting alien

    Diplomath: The crappy Federation Tongo Knockoff

    Ta'ana going full cat at the vet once Tendi realizes she's the last patient


    and I'll admit, the mating Mutagos did make me laugh a bit cause of Rutherford and Boimler's commentary/panic.

    It was fine. Maybe more of a first season outing, but hardly bad TV
    I’m always fond of when Star Fleet resolves a hostile situation with non-violent solutions. It gives me warm fuzzies about the overall message of Star Trek.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2
    I will say, they totally got me with
    the guys showing up with what looks like a TOS Arena-ass improvised cannon and I totally thought that what it was and it turning out to be a projector was pretty good.

    Undead Scottsman on
    MvrckRingohlprmnkyGnome-InterruptusDoodmann
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    Which is why Picard and the rest of them still talk about him.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm half an hour in and Archer and Trip are kind of giant assholes.

    Also this feels like a more explicitly American show than any others. Possibly it's just Trip's accent and Archer's arrogance.
    The show feels extremely american, and the 9/11 influences are extremely visible, too

    Just wait until you get to the "foreigners who look like us are reasonable and can be talked into joining our side with no compromise on our part while foreigners who look different from us are evil fanatics who hate us and want to kill us all for completely unreasonable reasons that we are in no way responsible for and it is impossible to ever talk them out of it" season-long story arc.

    I made it 3 seasons in.
    Once we got to literal alien Nazis, I tapped out.

    I remember standing up as the credits rolled, looking at my mom, and saying "I'm done." I walked upstairs and have never watched a full episode of Enterprise since. I'm aware that season 4 improved—I've seen bits of pieces of those episodes—but the jump isn't enough to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    To me, Enterprise will always be "the show that killed Trek." 18 years of storytelling broken by Berman's sheer fucking idiocy.

    We could've had a Sulu show and instead we got A Night in Sickbay.

    You are apparently not the only one, between A night in the Sickbay and the S3 cliffhanger(done ironically enough to get people to tune into S4 by Braga), its considered one of those points where people noped out of the show and stopped tunning in. the S3 cliffhanger was in many ways the episode that killed the series.

    Also The Orville is on D+ in Europe at least, I am not sure about you US folks, but since they own everything 20th Century Fox created, it should be.

    Its on Hulu in the US and probably worth a watch if you have any interest in TNG although if you absolutely cannot stand Seth McFarland yuu may want to skip it. He's definitely toned down compared to basically everything else he's done, but there's still some him there.

    Ringo
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    Which is why Picard and the rest of them still talk about him.

    That always felt so weird. Besides the fact that we have plenty of other worthy space pioneers right now that they ignore, what about all the alien pioneers? Why is the first human on our moon remembered as a milestone but the first Tellarite on their moon relegated to obscurity?

    sig.gif
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    They have actually brought up a number of alien "famous" people, singers, artists, explorers, etc. Just, the main ones happen to be human because well, so is the audience.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    Which is why Picard and the rest of them still talk about him.

    That always felt so weird. Besides the fact that we have plenty of other worthy space pioneers right now that they ignore, what about all the alien pioneers? Why is the first human on our moon remembered as a milestone but the first Tellarite on their moon relegated to obscurity?

    Identity bias, most likely. Picard was raised on Earth. So he got an Earth education. While he'd be versed in that of other races, the Earth based stuff would probably be more well taught, and more fondly remembered. Same with how most nations teach their children more about their home-grown celebrity than they do those of other nations.

    I know it's been handwaved away, but I'm more interested in why there are so few non-humans serving, and why they seem to avoid command positions. I can absolve TOS, because first, it already was exemplary in human racial diversity at the time, and second, prosthetics as something more than a guest spot probably would have been unfun.

    But TNG has what, 8 main bridge crew cast, five human, one Betazoid, one Klingon, one android.

    DS9 has 6 then 7, three human, one changeling, one Bajoran, one Trill (replaced by another Trill), and a Klingon added halfway. With two of those being essentially "natives" added to a predominantly human Starfleet presence. I know there were Ferengi and Cardassians and other Bajorans in big roles on the show, but they were explicitly outside the Star Fleet hierarchy.

    Voyager has 8, four human, one Klingon/Human, one Vulcan, one Talaxian, one Ocompan, again, with two being "natives", and even then, one being replaced by a human half way through.

    Enterprise I can forgive for essentially being pre-UFP. But even Discovery is primarily human, as is Lower Decks.

    And a significant majority of everyone in a position of command/authority/focus that we've seen, is human. And there's very little groupings of races. In each example above, there's only one of a specific race (except human) serving.

    It's been bugging me for quite a while, actually. And may be part of what appealed to me about Farscape from the start. Even if you include Sebacean as human, or that the focus of the show is a human (one completely out of his depth), the cast diversity with regards alien race is pretty diverse, including three non-humanoids.

    Ringovalhalla130
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited September 2
    DS9 has Nog as well.

    Edit: Garak does work for Starfleet in the end as well. Rom works for O'Brien. Also you do get the anti-dominion alliance going but they are equals not under star fleet.

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    Which is why Picard and the rest of them still talk about him.

    That always felt so weird. Besides the fact that we have plenty of other worthy space pioneers right now that they ignore, what about all the alien pioneers? Why is the first human on our moon remembered as a milestone but the first Tellarite on their moon relegated to obscurity?

    Identity bias, most likely. Picard was raised on Earth. So he got an Earth education. While he'd be versed in that of other races, the Earth based stuff would probably be more well taught, and more fondly remembered. Same with how most nations teach their children more about their home-grown celebrity than they do those of other nations.

    I know it's been handwaved away, but I'm more interested in why there are so few non-humans serving, and why they seem to avoid command positions. I can absolve TOS, because first, it already was exemplary in human racial diversity at the time, and second, prosthetics as something more than a guest spot probably would have been unfun.

    But TNG has what, 8 main bridge crew cast, five human, one Betazoid, one Klingon, one android.

    DS9 has 6 then 7, three human, one changeling, one Bajoran, one Trill (replaced by another Trill), and a Klingon added halfway. With two of those being essentially "natives" added to a predominantly human Starfleet presence. I know there were Ferengi and Cardassians and other Bajorans in big roles on the show, but they were explicitly outside the Star Fleet hierarchy.

    Voyager has 8, four human, one Klingon/Human, one Vulcan, one Talaxian, one Ocompan, again, with two being "natives", and even then, one being replaced by a human half way through.

    Enterprise I can forgive for essentially being pre-UFP. But even Discovery is primarily human, as is Lower Decks.

    And a significant majority of everyone in a position of command/authority/focus that we've seen, is human. And there's very little groupings of races. In each example above, there's only one of a specific race (except human) serving.

    It's been bugging me for quite a while, actually. And may be part of what appealed to me about Farscape from the start. Even if you include Sebacean as human, or that the focus of the show is a human (one completely out of his depth), the cast diversity with regards alien race is pretty diverse, including three non-humanoids.

    I don't know if it was ever canon, or just something I read in a novel, but at some point I got the idea that Federation ships tended to be largely crewed by a single species. You'd have a ship of Andorians, a ship of Vulcans, a ship of Humans... etc. because having to readjust personal quarters for racial preferences for each of your crew would be taxing on the environmental systems in the extreme.
    You might have one or two members of other races as part of the crews, that might have personal quarters adjusted to their preferences and just dealing with being uncomfortable for the rest of the time on board, but trying to divide a ship up for multiple species would be insane.
    As an example, compare Andorians, who come from an ice planet where it rarely gets above freezing, to Vulcans who come from a desert planet that is always hot and arid. How do you go about setting up a communal area that caters to both species preferences? You'd have to segregate the ship via environmental zones and acknowledge that X% of your crew is going to hate going on Y% of the ship because it's too hot, or too bright, or the gravity isn't right... . That would pretty much put paid to any hopes of the ship operating efficiently.

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  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    It does make a kind of sense that Archer is so bad at it; the whole idea of the series was that humanity was new to this and were blundering around without knowing what they were doing.
    The fact that he made such a poor job of it helps to explain why later captains just pretend the ship never existed.

    I can see Starfleet just saying "Okay, that happened. Now let us never speak of it again."

    Neil Armstrong was new to this and didn't know what he was doing. He still wasn't a bumbling idiot like Archer.

    Which is why Picard and the rest of them still talk about him.

    That always felt so weird. Besides the fact that we have plenty of other worthy space pioneers right now that they ignore, what about all the alien pioneers? Why is the first human on our moon remembered as a milestone but the first Tellarite on their moon relegated to obscurity?

    Identity bias, most likely. Picard was raised on Earth. So he got an Earth education. While he'd be versed in that of other races, the Earth based stuff would probably be more well taught, and more fondly remembered. Same with how most nations teach their children more about their home-grown celebrity than they do those of other nations.

    I know it's been handwaved away, but I'm more interested in why there are so few non-humans serving, and why they seem to avoid command positions. I can absolve TOS, because first, it already was exemplary in human racial diversity at the time, and second, prosthetics as something more than a guest spot probably would have been unfun.

    But TNG has what, 8 main bridge crew cast, five human, one Betazoid, one Klingon, one android.

    DS9 has 6 then 7, three human, one changeling, one Bajoran, one Trill (replaced by another Trill), and a Klingon added halfway. With two of those being essentially "natives" added to a predominantly human Starfleet presence. I know there were Ferengi and Cardassians and other Bajorans in big roles on the show, but they were explicitly outside the Star Fleet hierarchy.

    Voyager has 8, four human, one Klingon/Human, one Vulcan, one Talaxian, one Ocompan, again, with two being "natives", and even then, one being replaced by a human half way through.

    Enterprise I can forgive for essentially being pre-UFP. But even Discovery is primarily human, as is Lower Decks.

    And a significant majority of everyone in a position of command/authority/focus that we've seen, is human. And there's very little groupings of races. In each example above, there's only one of a specific race (except human) serving.

    It's been bugging me for quite a while, actually. And may be part of what appealed to me about Farscape from the start. Even if you include Sebacean as human, or that the focus of the show is a human (one completely out of his depth), the cast diversity with regards alien race is pretty diverse, including three non-humanoids.

    My handwave here is that we're just seeing the primarily-human ships. While there may be a few Vulcans scattered around on ships from Earth, there's primarily-Vulcan ships as well with a few humans scattered around. Different races have different comfort levels with regards to gravity, lighting, atmosphere, temperature, and so on (not to mention cultural norms, and needing to have medical training in treating dozens of species). While 1.3x Earth gravity, reduced oxygen, and a room temperature of 85 degrees is okay for a bit, it's just not someplace you want to stay long-term when a more comfortable alternative exists.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    They have actually brought up a number of alien "famous" people, singers, artists, explorers, etc. Just, the main ones happen to be human because well, so is the audience.

    There's a trope in science fiction when talking about historical precedent or comparison: one that's old to the viewer, one that's contemporary/recent to the viewer, and one made up and unnecessarily clarified. "This is a masterpiece of a novel! Your name will go down with Twain, Tolkien, and Gro'Shanaj of Tarmann III!" Just so the viewer doesn't think they're talking about the Gro'Shanaj of New Jersey, whose writing is entirely inferior and lost to memory by the 24th Century.

    Hevach on
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  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    edited September 2
    Historical Note, New Jersey was purchased by the Andorians in the "Make Earth Great Again" Auction of 2134, and subsequently purchased by the Tarmannian Devils in 2209. They then renamed it to Tramann III because they have REAL trouble with original names.

    EDIT: It also explains a couple other oddities. The Klingons ended up with ALL of England, which forced all British people to relocate elsewhere, which largely ended up being France. This explains both Picards accent and the Klingons referal to Shakespeare in the original Klingon.

    Hydropolo on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    oh no but I realy liked Ent immediately after the nazis

    its just all 3 episode arcs at that point and they're fine to good

    valhalla130
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    It was the last bit of stupid they had to get rid of.
    ... until the justly infamous series finale.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Enterprise's Mirror Universe episodes are dumb hammy fun.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Enterprise's Mirror Universe episodes are dumb hammy fun.

    I'm kind of sad that Voyager never got a Mirror Universe episode.
    TOS did the original, ENT did, DS9 did, and DIS had a whole bunch of them.

    But never getting to see Mirror Janeway throw Neelix into an agonizer booth? Or Mirror Picard flirting with Mirror Data? Seems a loss for all of us.

    Zilla360
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    We kinda did. That episode (Living Witness) with the copy of the doctor who lived on the planet where history told that the Voyager crew were the villains was pretty close.



    It also means there are two Doctor's running around the universe. Which, as I'm now thinking about it... The Doctor is virtually immortal, and being a hologram, can adjust his image. What if the Doctor is Doctor Who?!?!?!? CROSSOVER

    Zilla360Commander ZoomRingo
  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
  • ouchiesouchies Registered User regular
    edited September 3
    The most bonkers thing to me about that ENT S3 finale and cliffhanger was that the episode aired before the producers knew if the show would get renewed for a 4th season. The ratings were so bad that it was a legitimate question as to whether or not the show would get renewed. There was a very, very real possibility that the last shot in the series finale of Star Trek: Enterprise was of a space nazi.

    When the show did get renewed, it was moved to Friday nights, which was almost as being canceled anyway. If I’ve got the details of this story wrong I’d really like to know what actually happened. I remember this happening as a teenager and it just boggled my brain.

    ouchies on
    Zilla360
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »

    I'd rather have more Neelix, honestly. Fuck the Borg Queen

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Zilla360 wrote: »

    I'd rather have more Neelix, honestly. Fuck the Borg Queen

    :winky:

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  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    There is a lot of unnecessary punctuation in my statement...

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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