Yeah. I don't get that bit of marketing either. It really stood out to me the first time I heard them say it, and every time since.
"We made up an entirely new character for this game, and that character is therefore in the Marvel Universe. We're letting you customize a character in the Marvel Universe which has never been done before."
Seems a bit odd of a thing to market/advertise, right? Sure, this character, the Hunter, might technically exist within the Marvel Universe now, but do they honestly think that it will ever matter outside of this game and possible sequels? Likely not.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2021
Yeah...I didn't really get that either. I guess some people would be geeked to make a superhero that is technically in the MCU but I'm not really one of them.
I would agree that if you're not hyped to have your personal character interact with that world, then that feature probably isn't for you.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I think it's not so much that, but more the fact it's probably more than certain it won't matter in any way or be acknowledged, so it's really not much of an exciting point TBH.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited September 2021
The custom character feels odd to me because there doesn't seem to be a real need for it. Surely one of Marvels thousands of characters could have taken the same place? There appears to be plenty of customization you can do, so making your team yours is something you can already do. And I doubt using a brand new player created character gives them much more story freedom.
On the other hand - you get to make your own hero in a Marvel game. If they build in plenty of options, that could be really cool.
Actually I think it would be kind of weird to single out a specific, single Marvel character within a wide roster consisting of basically any possible character. It would be a bit like an Avengers branded game where you've forced everyone into Captain America. You'd almost have to brand it "Captain America and the Avengers" or the like. You could easily make a strategy game with no main character, or let you pick a main character from the roster, but that also heavily impacts how you tell your story.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I think it's not so much that, but more the fact it's probably more than certain it won't matter in any way or be acknowledged, so it's really not much of an exciting point TBH.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
The character will more or less contained to this game so all the hoopla about being the first CC in the MCU is kind of whatever.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2021
As someone whose inner ten year old never died or frizzled away I think it's cool.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I apologize, I was not criticizing the idea, but the specific wording used every single time is what struck me as amusing.
That 6 minute gameplay deep dive helped a bit with my aversion to the card thing. Combat did actually look fun.
But I still want to see more. I'm also curious if things like the Overwatch ability will be included in Midnight Suns. Nearly ever XCOM-like game has it. Obviously the XCOM series. Pathways has it. Gears Tactics. Mario+Rabbids.
Fatigue or Injury could both be ways of having a consequence for taking too much damage in a mission, or over-using specific heroes to encourage people to swap.
They could also do something like what Mario+Rabbids does, where each kit has unique strengths and weaknesses, and you are encouraged to play with your active roster to overcome the challenges of the mission.
Mario+Rabbids is pretty much best in genre for unit balance. Each character is useful, each character has their place on the team, and each unit will change your strategic options just by including them on the team. That's the way I'd like to see them go with Midnight Suns.
Fatigue or Injury could both be ways of having a consequence for taking too much damage in a mission, or over-using specific heroes to encourage people to swap.
They could also do something like what Mario+Rabbids does, where each kit has unique strengths and weaknesses, and you are encouraged to play with your active roster to overcome the challenges of the mission.
Mario+Rabbids is pretty much best in genre for unit balance. Each character is useful, each character has their place on the team, and each unit will change your strategic options just by including them on the team. That's the way I'd like to see them go with Midnight Suns.
Hopefully team building is more flexible though. I don't want to bring Mario to every mission, and I don't want to be required to bring a Rabbid, either. If they're copying too closely from the formula, I could imagine a world where you're required to bring at least one character with a Magic Wielding background to every mission. That seems a bit of a stretch, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're required to bring Original Character (Do Not Steal) to every mission.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
Actually looks really neat I think, at least the tactics bit that I've watched so far, moving off the grid system makes for a big change in how it seems to feel but the actual XCOM lineage is there for sure.
they seem to be going for a very marvel vs capcom feel with the abilities which felt weird to me. I'm also not totally clear on the whole 'why are there cards' question, but I realize we saw a pretty limited version of the combat there.
it was the smallest on the list but
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Yeah their video explanation of the card system honestly did not really do much to clear up my concerns about getting a bad "hand" and not having the right tools available on any given turn.
Like, I get what you guys are saying about the RNG of missing a sniper shot in XCOM when you have a 95% hit rating, and that being pretty maddening. But personally, I'd always rather have that sniper shot available to me when I want it or need it, than get in a situation where I need a specific move, but I don't have it in my hand of cards.
Anyway, that 20 minute video was pretty good, and I'm definitely hyped for the RPG elements of this game. Game looks fun. I'm sure the cards will be "ok" but I'm sure that even if I'm able to adapt to them when the game comes out, this will always be a situation where I'd rather they not exist. As an aside, I thought Jake Solomon's on-video response to the card concerns by the community was funny. It's like he didn't even get why people are concerned. He tried to deliver an answer about it, but he pretty much sounded like he didn't even understand what the problem is.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2021
I mean
Im gonna wait till I understand how they work before I decide
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(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
xcom certainly had a solved way to handle most combat encounters - that usually involved grenades and other abilities; that put your guys at little risk. I'd expect the card system to at least had more variability to each fight without needing to design a unique layout for every encounter
Yeah their video explanation of the card system honestly did not really do much to clear up my concerns about getting a bad "hand" and not having the right tools available on any given turn.
Like, I get what you guys are saying about the RNG of missing a sniper shot in XCOM when you have a 95% hit rating, and that being pretty maddening. But personally, I'd always rather have that sniper shot available to me when I want it or need it, than get in a situation where I need a specific move, but I don't have it in my hand of cards.
Anyway, that 20 minute video was pretty good, and I'm definitely hyped for the RPG elements of this game. Game looks fun. I'm sure the cards will be "ok" but I'm sure that even if I'm able to adapt to them when the game comes out, this will always be a situation where I'd rather they not exist. As an aside, I thought Jake Solomon's on-video response to the card concerns by the community was funny. It's like he didn't even get why people are concerned. He tried to deliver an answer about it, but he pretty much sounded like he didn't even understand what the problem is.
I mean, you have the same problem in, say, Slay the Spire. Part of the strategy of deckbuilding games is building your deck to minimize the bad hands.
I've put.... too many hours into Slay the Spire lol. So the idea of cards is definitely not turning me off to this game
Edit: to be honest, it's probably a selling point. Card games and deckbuilding games are fun
If people stopped thinking of this as Marvel x XCOM, frustration at the card system would go away. I see no difference between this and Slay the Spire in terms of fundamentals. Or can just view the RNG being in your card draw as opposed to your hot chance.
I can see how building a deck is like outfitting a team in XCOM, but I also share the issue with not having something I want to use in my hand. It's one of my constant rage factors with Magic the Gathering, etc., that I have the cards (or even the entire deck!) built to counter an opposing strategy but I just don't draw the cards.
That's a ME thing, obviously, and hope those who do enjoy it more enjoy it here / Firaxis pulls it off.
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Yeah, it's totally fair to not be a fan of some aspects of card games. To bring it back to StS again, I've lost many a runs where I frustratingly draw all my blocks when the enemy is just buffing, and then all basic attacks the following turn where they just kill me. It's annoying! But also... playing to mitigate and reduce that is part of the fun for me (and many others, based on the popularity of StS).
I haven't played Slay the Spire, so I have no point of comparison.
This game does look cool enough on its own that I'm willing to give it a chance and be open minded.
I think it really just comes down to preparedness. What you're describing is mitigating risk, but really your whole battleplan relies on RNG and having the right card in hand at the right time. Making a plan where "I hope I get the right cards in my hand" doesn't seem like tactics to me. It actually seems like the opposite of tactics. Strategically picking a team based on their kit, but not having direct control over their kit at any given time is the part I don't like.
Let's apply the card thing to XCOM real quick, as a hypothetical.
I build my XCOM squad for a mission, and I put a sniper on the team because I specifically want to be able to snipe things from long range. And then a turn comes up in which an enemy is in-range for sniping, my sniper is in-position to take the shot, but I don't have "snipe" in my hand. That doesn't sound like fun to me. I know there's plenty of horror stories out there of missing 98% sniper shots in XCOM and then having your whole team brutally murdered because you missed a clutch shot. But I'd rather have the opportunity to take the shot, than have be in a position where I want to take the shot, but I can't, because it's my sniper's turn, but the cards I have in my hand for the sniper are "punch" "cover" "reload" and "pistol."
If I put Blade on my team because he's got a super sweet AOE sword spinny move, and I spy a clump of baddies that are ripe for getting spinny-moved, but I don't have the spinny move card in my hand, that will be sad times.
The card thing isn't enough to put me off the game. I'm just extremely leery of it. I'm sure the game will be fine, and I'm sure I'll still have a blast with it.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2021
I mean but that sniper still only had a certain chance to hit though. Especially early game.
Tactical games always have a degree of RNG its a big part of adding variation and replayability to the gameplay.
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"We made up an entirely new character for this game, and that character is therefore in the Marvel Universe. We're letting you customize a character in the Marvel Universe which has never been done before."
Seems a bit odd of a thing to market/advertise, right? Sure, this character, the Hunter, might technically exist within the Marvel Universe now, but do they honestly think that it will ever matter outside of this game and possible sequels? Likely not.
On the other hand - you get to make your own hero in a Marvel game. If they build in plenty of options, that could be really cool.
So yeah, pros and cons.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
The character will more or less contained to this game so all the hoopla about being the first CC in the MCU is kind of whatever.
I'm not asking for City of Heroes depth here, but that is going to be my comparison.
It looks like it is.
Having an inner child is overrated. Look what it did to Star Wars fans.
It's code for "i just like to have fun without being complicated about it" but weird snipe.
I mean I wasn't being that serious.
I'm not losing sleep over anyone enjoying something I don't.
But I still want to see more. I'm also curious if things like the Overwatch ability will be included in Midnight Suns. Nearly ever XCOM-like game has it. Obviously the XCOM series. Pathways has it. Gears Tactics. Mario+Rabbids.
Give me Marvel Persona.
They could also do something like what Mario+Rabbids does, where each kit has unique strengths and weaknesses, and you are encouraged to play with your active roster to overcome the challenges of the mission.
Mario+Rabbids is pretty much best in genre for unit balance. Each character is useful, each character has their place on the team, and each unit will change your strategic options just by including them on the team. That's the way I'd like to see them go with Midnight Suns.
I hope sempai Blade-san notices me.
I am thou and thou art I.
Hopefully team building is more flexible though. I don't want to bring Mario to every mission, and I don't want to be required to bring a Rabbid, either. If they're copying too closely from the formula, I could imagine a world where you're required to bring at least one character with a Magic Wielding background to every mission. That seems a bit of a stretch, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're required to bring Original Character (Do Not Steal) to every mission.
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Like, I get what you guys are saying about the RNG of missing a sniper shot in XCOM when you have a 95% hit rating, and that being pretty maddening. But personally, I'd always rather have that sniper shot available to me when I want it or need it, than get in a situation where I need a specific move, but I don't have it in my hand of cards.
Anyway, that 20 minute video was pretty good, and I'm definitely hyped for the RPG elements of this game. Game looks fun. I'm sure the cards will be "ok" but I'm sure that even if I'm able to adapt to them when the game comes out, this will always be a situation where I'd rather they not exist. As an aside, I thought Jake Solomon's on-video response to the card concerns by the community was funny. It's like he didn't even get why people are concerned. He tried to deliver an answer about it, but he pretty much sounded like he didn't even understand what the problem is.
Im gonna wait till I understand how they work before I decide
I mean, you have the same problem in, say, Slay the Spire. Part of the strategy of deckbuilding games is building your deck to minimize the bad hands.
I've put.... too many hours into Slay the Spire lol. So the idea of cards is definitely not turning me off to this game
Edit: to be honest, it's probably a selling point. Card games and deckbuilding games are fun
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Sure its more involved with a bigger learning curve but basically the same idea
That's a ME thing, obviously, and hope those who do enjoy it more enjoy it here / Firaxis pulls it off.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
So, I'm glad it is card-based.
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This game does look cool enough on its own that I'm willing to give it a chance and be open minded.
I think it really just comes down to preparedness. What you're describing is mitigating risk, but really your whole battleplan relies on RNG and having the right card in hand at the right time. Making a plan where "I hope I get the right cards in my hand" doesn't seem like tactics to me. It actually seems like the opposite of tactics. Strategically picking a team based on their kit, but not having direct control over their kit at any given time is the part I don't like.
Let's apply the card thing to XCOM real quick, as a hypothetical.
I build my XCOM squad for a mission, and I put a sniper on the team because I specifically want to be able to snipe things from long range. And then a turn comes up in which an enemy is in-range for sniping, my sniper is in-position to take the shot, but I don't have "snipe" in my hand. That doesn't sound like fun to me. I know there's plenty of horror stories out there of missing 98% sniper shots in XCOM and then having your whole team brutally murdered because you missed a clutch shot. But I'd rather have the opportunity to take the shot, than have be in a position where I want to take the shot, but I can't, because it's my sniper's turn, but the cards I have in my hand for the sniper are "punch" "cover" "reload" and "pistol."
If I put Blade on my team because he's got a super sweet AOE sword spinny move, and I spy a clump of baddies that are ripe for getting spinny-moved, but I don't have the spinny move card in my hand, that will be sad times.
The card thing isn't enough to put me off the game. I'm just extremely leery of it. I'm sure the game will be fine, and I'm sure I'll still have a blast with it.
Tactical games always have a degree of RNG its a big part of adding variation and replayability to the gameplay.
That's OK! But they just seem less relevant to talking about this game in particular, if that makes sense?
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