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How to Stop Making The Same Mistakes
Mim
dead.Registered User regular
dead.Registered User regular
I'm going to try to keep this brief but also provide enough details:
Last night a friend and I had a discussion about an argument we had last Thursday. He was watching my pet (whom he claims to love and always asks me about and photos for and tells me he misses her when he hasn't seen her in a bit) and I told him I was going with a mutual friend of ours to Barnes and Noble after work. I got off work at 5:30, and around 6:30 he was texting me asking where I was. I reminded him I was at B&N with our friend and he told me I was taking too long and that his time was not unlimited and he needed to cook dinner for himself. It took our friend and I a bit of time to get over to B&N, so it didn't feel like I was there a long amount of time.
Swerve to yesterday when he told me that I was too reliant on him. He couldn't could dinner while watching my dog because he feels weird eating with her there. He said I didn't respect him or his time or money. He feels I should be able to do more things on my own like grocery shopping, or help finding a new apartment (which he offered on his own), or if I need to go to a store and I'm planning to buy a lot of items (I do not drive). I've always asked and he's always said yes, but then will eventually let out that he feels "obligated" and that if he doesn't say yes then he's being a dick.
He brought up that during Henri I called him at 12:30 am asking for him to pick me and the dog up because water was pouring through my roof. He said it was too dangerous for him to drive after he walked to his car in the rain and assessed the streets. However, in my area the roads did not appear flooded, and I was panicking because of the amount of rain coming through the roof. He told me he couldn't come and get me because he feared for his safety, which I understood at the time. However yesterday he said that I should've have thought it out before even calling him and that I was the reason why he couldn't sleep for 3 hours afterwards. I tried to explain that I wasn't trying to be disrespectful of him or put him in danger, that I was really just scared especially for my dog.
He said I was disrespectful of his time, money and him (he says this often during fights). That I should think before asking for a favor and do things on my own. Like instead of tagging along with him for grocery shopping, I should order my groceries instead. I shouldn't tell him I'm coming to his house, I should ask if I could come to his house (I've only done this once and I ADMIT that I should have asked instead of just inviting myself over). I said I would be more mindful of this but did ask that if I was doing something that felt like I was breaching his boundaries I would like him to tell me. He told me "No. I shouldn't have to change my behavior. I shouldn't have to police your behavior. You should know to do this on your own."
This isn't the first time I've been accused of taking advantage of people. I ask for a favor, to be driven to places because I can't get to a place on my own or public transit isn't feasible due to distance or amount of items I'm gathering. Where I don't feel as though I am putting pressure on people to say "Yes", and it certainly isn't my intention, they still say I make them feel obligated. However, if I do end up in a precarious situation and I don't ask for help, then I've been accused of being closed off and distant.
I'm not sure where to pull back and where to ask for help. I thought by asking, I was doing good and I keep having to reassure the people who accuse me of using them that they can tell me "No" if they can't do something. But it doesn't seem like it's doing any good.
Nevermind that this friend, when I bring up a fault of his he turns it around on me. But I cannot control him, so instead of focusing on that, I want to try to work on myself and not be in the situation again. Any advice?
Last night a friend and I had a discussion about an argument we had last Thursday. He was watching my pet (whom he claims to love and always asks me about and photos for and tells me he misses her when he hasn't seen her in a bit) and I told him I was going with a mutual friend of ours to Barnes and Noble after work. I got off work at 5:30, and around 6:30 he was texting me asking where I was. I reminded him I was at B&N with our friend and he told me I was taking too long and that his time was not unlimited and he needed to cook dinner for himself. It took our friend and I a bit of time to get over to B&N, so it didn't feel like I was there a long amount of time.
Swerve to yesterday when he told me that I was too reliant on him. He couldn't could dinner while watching my dog because he feels weird eating with her there. He said I didn't respect him or his time or money. He feels I should be able to do more things on my own like grocery shopping, or help finding a new apartment (which he offered on his own), or if I need to go to a store and I'm planning to buy a lot of items (I do not drive). I've always asked and he's always said yes, but then will eventually let out that he feels "obligated" and that if he doesn't say yes then he's being a dick.
He brought up that during Henri I called him at 12:30 am asking for him to pick me and the dog up because water was pouring through my roof. He said it was too dangerous for him to drive after he walked to his car in the rain and assessed the streets. However, in my area the roads did not appear flooded, and I was panicking because of the amount of rain coming through the roof. He told me he couldn't come and get me because he feared for his safety, which I understood at the time. However yesterday he said that I should've have thought it out before even calling him and that I was the reason why he couldn't sleep for 3 hours afterwards. I tried to explain that I wasn't trying to be disrespectful of him or put him in danger, that I was really just scared especially for my dog.
He said I was disrespectful of his time, money and him (he says this often during fights). That I should think before asking for a favor and do things on my own. Like instead of tagging along with him for grocery shopping, I should order my groceries instead. I shouldn't tell him I'm coming to his house, I should ask if I could come to his house (I've only done this once and I ADMIT that I should have asked instead of just inviting myself over). I said I would be more mindful of this but did ask that if I was doing something that felt like I was breaching his boundaries I would like him to tell me. He told me "No. I shouldn't have to change my behavior. I shouldn't have to police your behavior. You should know to do this on your own."
This isn't the first time I've been accused of taking advantage of people. I ask for a favor, to be driven to places because I can't get to a place on my own or public transit isn't feasible due to distance or amount of items I'm gathering. Where I don't feel as though I am putting pressure on people to say "Yes", and it certainly isn't my intention, they still say I make them feel obligated. However, if I do end up in a precarious situation and I don't ask for help, then I've been accused of being closed off and distant.
I'm not sure where to pull back and where to ask for help. I thought by asking, I was doing good and I keep having to reassure the people who accuse me of using them that they can tell me "No" if they can't do something. But it doesn't seem like it's doing any good.
Nevermind that this friend, when I bring up a fault of his he turns it around on me. But I cannot control him, so instead of focusing on that, I want to try to work on myself and not be in the situation again. Any advice?
BlueSky: thequeenofchaos Steam: mimspanks (add me then tell me who you are! Ask for my IG)
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All that aside, if someone offers something, and than gets upset when you take them up on the offer that's Class A shitty behavior. Don't offer what you don't intend to follow through on. Additionally I would be upset if a true friend DIDN'T call me when they needed help, regardless of whether I could actively provide it at the time. That seems like a very strange thing to be upset about that a friend considers you important enough to ask for their help in a time of dire need (e.g. a hurricane with your roof flooding).
The dog thing I find very, very strange. He feels uncomfortable eating with your dog there? What in the what? That's just...weird. Does your dog have some health condition or something that precludes it from just...hanging out while someone cooks? I don't know your dog, and it could be very high maintenance, but that whole exchange just seems really off.
I have two final points here:
1. Maybe you think this friend is a better friend than he thinks he is. This can happen! It's no different than a nascent romance, where one person can be way more in to the other than vice versa. It happens with friendships as well.
2. In terms of working on yourself, the best thing I've learned over my years on this earth is self reflection. Actively thinking about exchanges you have with people and thinking of ways you could have made that exchange better. Don't beat yourself up over it, don't dwell, but if you had an uncomfortable interaction with a friend just reflect on it. Maybe once the initial awkward is over, if the friend is close enough and receptive enough, discuss your self reflection with them.
It sounds like this guy has a tendency to set you up for situations he can guilt you about or feel superior about, which isn't so much your fault as him being manipulative about your feelings. Real friends don't offer to do things regularly and then make you feel like shit for asking and accepting the help in the first place.
I don't know that I'd say these reactions are a personal fault of yours you need to repair; realistically, the only real takeaway here is that this guy is a dick and you should put some distance in, and re-evaluate if it is worth maintaining any element of the friendship, reducing him to acquaintance level, or (honestly, probably the best option based on the described actions) cutting him out entirely and focusing on other friends who care
Like, asking for a ride to the store or whatever, I guess you could fix by taking public transit or moving closer to grocery stores or some shit, but it sounds like the real issue is that you're trying to rely on a friend who you really shouldn't
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I think with age I've just gotten to be less and less patient with fairweather friends
Life's too short to spend it stressing on folks who aren't going to treat you with respect, you know?
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As far as eating with the dog goes - Does the dog plead for food (and is used to eating when you eat) and is the food he is cooking suitable for dogs or will the dog eat later with you? It is uncomfortable to eat when someone else is hungry and you're not planning on sharing, it can also be really annoying if it's a dog that want stop asking. Also he doesn't love your dog like you do, it's like other people's children - they can be fun to hang out with, but you will want to give them back. Also if he had agreed to look after the dog whilst you were at work, and you just texted him to say that actually you were going out with another friend instead of coming back, yeah that is a dick move. He's doing you a favour, and you've just changed the terms of the what was agreed without discussing it and with little warning. It sounds like you'd not agreed for him to look after the dog until late.
The hurricane thing also sounds really bad on your end, obviously a 12:30 call is a serious thing and it sounds like you asked him to come get you rather than if he could come get you and then seem a bit pissed that he didn't come when it was dangerous for him to do so. The danger could occur at any point across the whole trip, not just where you are - it also sounds like you didn't ring him back to let him know you were safe (or what the outcome was), if he stayed up three hours! Was the damage unexpected, and do you not have a plan for what to do in a hurricane situation other than call that friend when it looks like it is getting bad? Admittedly I'm assuming here that hurricanes are not freak events where you are.
Why can't you order groceries? If you're far enough out that transport is an issue, then it sounds like you are not 'just on your way' so that having you tag along to go shopping requires a fair bit of time and petrol money on his behalf. Do you pay for gas when you get these favours, do you ever complain to friends about the predicaments you get in when you don't get a lift (and apparently can't order a taxi)? Also it sounds like he has told you that he feels obligated when you ask, and yet you keep asking.
Also this: Makes me think it that it is you not realising you're being a burden rather than him being a hypersensitive friend.
Sorry again.
I also kind of disagree about the dog thing. If you're not comfortable watching a dog, don't watch the dog. If you are so put off by a little begging from a dog than don't offer or accept the request to watch it. Dogs are not children, they are much easier to handle, and generally much easier to love. As a parent I don't automatically like other peoples kids, but I've never met a friends dog who I didn't think was pretty great. Maybe he's not a dog person, fine, than don't watch the dog. Accepting watching the dog and then complaining about it because you "can't cook" is pretty melodramatic.
I do agree about the petrol though. If someone is giving you a ride you should always offer to pay for gas + a little extra for their time. As someone who hasn't owned a car in 10+ years this is a song and dance I'm very used to. I a) rarely ask, and b) always go overboard with paying for gas and making sure they get something more than my "awesome company" for their time.
Also a bit more on dog cooking, it sounds like he doesn't have a dog - and is either over yours so feels weird cooking in your house with your things, or is at his and has to stop watching the dog in a non-dog proofed house to cook which could easily make someone uncomfortable. Though I agree with Gnome in that they like playing with your dog but probably aren't really dog people.
I also feel like it's really shitty to tell a person that they should have been more mindful about how they ask for help in the middle of a natural disaster?? It isn't an issue that the friend said they couldn't go, but the poster shouldn't feel bad for having asked for help while their home is flooding??
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"My house is flooding, come get me!"
"I can't, the road's are flooded here!"
"They're not flooded here though, the water is just coming through the roof can you come?"
"No, it's not safe, what are you going to do?"
"...."
Not saying that is how it went down, but a cry for help that couldn't be answered and then no check in is going to leave the helper worried and that can fester if they feel that the extent of your emergency plan was just to call them to rescue you. Especially if the OP mentioned that the roads weren't flooded where they were during the call as if there was just the one dangerous bit.
I'm super busy trying to get things done around the house but I do want to address this.
I had called him and asked him to come get me and my dog because water was pouring through the ceiling. He said "Do you feel safe" and I said I didn't know because it was coming down pretty hard and I was worried the ceiling itself would cave in and injure me or the dog. He told me to hold on and was going to be on his way. When he called me back, he was at his car and he told me that the roads were too dangerous to drive. I didn't mention to him that the roads in my area were not flooded nor did I request him to still come get me anyways. He stated he didn't feel safe driving and that he could easily see himself getting into an accident and was I sure I couldn't last the night. I said I could try and that I definitely didn't want him to get into an accident or put himself in danger so I would try my best to make it through the night.
I don't want anyone to think I pushed him to keep coming regardless of his safety. As soon as he said it was unsafe, I was afraid of him getting hurt so I put up with the rest of the rain.
I can address everything else later on once I'm done with my chores. But please keep the advice coming and I'm not afraid of critique. I just wanted to set that one straight cause I don't want to appear as if I came off heartless.
Though I do think if you wake someone up after midnight when in potential danger, you do owe them a check in when everything is ok.
It might be rude to ask, but how old is everyone involved, generally? I think after my late 20s, I stopped having fights with my friends often enough to have reoccurring themes, I drifted away from the people I wasn't compatible with as I got more comfortable in the relationships that worked. I realize that its also common for some people to be totally invested in friendships that aren't pleasant, but if your fighting enough for it to be "often", maybe its worth assessing why you're hanging out?
If I had a fight with a friend where they told me they felt obligated to help, I would pull back pretty hard on asking them to help me, because you cant really set a clearer boundary, and friendships aren't resource based. If their time and company when its comfortable for them is not what I'm after, I'm dependent on them. It sounds like the animosity, is because he's sending a "mixed signal" by saying yes to things sometimes, but I think its pretty human to feel guilty about saying hard "No"s to someone all the time. Some upbringings will make people really dispositioned to have trouble with it.
We don't know this guy, and we only have friendship as a definition here, but this seems like incredibly clear boundary setting to me, and I dont understand why anyone would feel unreasonable about setting these boundaries in a friendship. If the reverse of this post were made, we might be advising therapy for help with setting harder boundaries and being confident to do so. If they might have a hard time with that, I would take a serious step back and ask yourself if you are forcing someone tell you no and willfully looking past the pressure that might create on a friendship, especially if they have a small social network and you are a good friend.
I'm not being very succinct, but there's a big difference between relying on your friends when you have to, but its cool because you all care about each other, and relying on your friends because you've assumed that's the default and they will always have an equal level of investment. The later will make you lash out in fear of loosing friends because you need what they provide you to survive, and not every relationship can sustain that perpetually.
My dog does have a heart condition, but that only prevents my friend from giving her, her medicine. He doesn't like being bugged while he's eating and my dog does bark when she wants food. If we're all at his house, I primarily feed the dog from my plate and he might give her a piece here or there, but only after I've run out of food. However, he watches her a lot. They both seem to really enjoy each other, as she gets excited when she even thinks we might be going to his house. She's normally asleep due to her age (she's 16).
I'm 33. He's 42.
I agree I am going to have to pull back hard. The last time we had a discussion where he felt I wasn't respecting his time or him was I believe when I was late coming back from a celebration that was held for me because I got a job I really wanted. He didn't work in this building, so he wasn't at the celebration. I did apologize for losing track of time, and while I generally would've kept in better touch, I didn't have reception at this particular restaurant and didn't realize until I was on my way out. Other times would be if I was stuck at work late trying to finish things (he has worked the same job, but whereas he's very fast with his work, I get distracted and overwhelmed easily so I take longer. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 31 to which he is aware).
Beyond that, I have asked him for a ride if he could do it. The first time this became a problem, I then tried to follow up with him by saying "You can say no, I will not be offended." At first it worked, but then if I don't put that sentence in there, he won't tell me until it's too much for him. I do try to work within his schedule and within his area (he lives a mile from me and closer to the supermarket and home repair stores). Like he goes to the grocery store on Fridays, so I ask if I can tag along (not every Friday). We used to hang out before the pandemic and did things together. Now when I go to his house he's on his computer doing what he wants to do and watching what he wants to watch and I try to participate if it's something I'm also equally interested in. However, he's been focused more on shows he likes, so I kind of hang with the dog in the backyard or we tend to play a bit and fall asleep (which he's annoyed about as well, but when I do remain awake and active, he's basically ignoring me).
This I can say has been an massive oversight on my end. I do pay for lunch here and there, but because he never asked for gas money, I never thought to offer. Next time I will be more mindful of that. I'm going to be at a loss if he turns me down though.
And he is a dog person. He doesn't currently have a pet because his apartment does not allow pets last time he checked (although his upstairs neighbors get pets). If she stays overnight, I am there with her to give her, her meds and when she has a cough-attack in the middle of the night or if she needs to go out.
There is probably more i'm missing/forgetting. I was somehow busy today but don't have much to show for it, oddly enough? I was combating mold in my bathroom, walking the dog, and other things. Apartment looks no better for it though!
Maybe it's time to have a tough talk with him about that. Maybe through the pandemic he's just grown apart and is afraid to tell you because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings.
Again, this is random advice across the internet, only you know best if that's a good course of action...just my analysis from what I've read.
The thing about being dependent on him for a ride and being late because you lost track of time and didn't have reception is a huge red flag to me. This is bringing in my biases, but that specifically really sounds like former friends I had who were just users, as in they used the people around them for favors, and it was one way.
What's mutual about your friendship? How do you support your friends?
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I would not wait for hard No's, or even clarify that you are ok with a no, when you feel tension and are fighting about this kind of thing. Social conventions are such that you are asking him to shoulder all of the guilt around having to refuse your requests. It would be best if he just said no and clearer for both of you, but that is surprisingly hard for many people. It sounds like you also have some understanding of when its tough for him, but are still opting to force him to say no instead of trying to lift the pressure.
Do you call or text to ask permission before coming over? Or do you just come over whenever you feel like it and he lets you in?
There are some friends with whom you can just come over and they're always happy to see you, or they are able to manage boundaries and tell you they can't have company at the moment. There are others with whom you can't just pop in. For example, those with newborn children.
Just based on what you've described, this very much sounds like the latter. Even if you do ask for permission and he says yes, if his response to your appearance is to ignore you, then that's a very clear sign that he doesn't actually want your company and just says yes, likely because he feels obligated to do so.
There's an old adage that you should judge people by what they do, not what they say. This seems to be the case for both of you.
He seems to say yes to things that he doesn't actually want to do, for whatever reasons those may be. You seem to ask people for things you know they don't actually want to do because they will say yes and it makes your life easier.
Both of you are kind of being dicks because neither of you is willing to take responsibility for aligning your words with your actions and are relying on others to take on your own emotional burdens.
He's responsible for establishing the boundaries in his own life (As are you ofc) and for making sure they are respected or for ending any sort of relationship that is seemingly dysfunctional along those lines.
That's a burden we all bear as adults - if he's never drawn the line it's wrong for him to scold you for crossing it, the line is both his to draw and it's his responsibility to make sure it's respected (And vice versa). You of course should respect people's boundaries but it's not on you to divine what they are.
Aside from that most relationships are at some level transactional - whether it's the warm fuzzies a person gets from helping another, fulfillment of a moral code or a ride to a grocery store the relationships that last the longest leave both people happy for keeping up with them.
TLDR: You hit this guy up for a lot of personal favors that are mostly pretty minor. If that makes him happy he needs to learn to say no or reevaluate. If hearing no on occasion makes you feel unhappy then you might need to reevaluate.
Him not coming for you in the storm is perfectly valid (as an aside call the FD the next time water is pouring through your roof, it will generate another report about your general issues there and generate pressure on your landlord) but him saying you made him feel worried and that's bad is horseshit. He should have felt worried.
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A friend that doesn't read between the lines or actively show respect gets phased out over time. Friendship is mutual respect and actively supporting the other.
"You should just know" implies there's some rules laid down on stone tablets that govern these things.
Nevermind that some people are hard to read and others do poor with social cues.
If you're needs aren't being met, if you feel disrespected, communicate that clearly.
If you do that and the person fails to respect them, act accordingly.
"You should have known" is the basis of a billion failed relationships of all stripes.
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I'd also argue that from our standpoint, we have no idea how those conversations were worded and how clear he was being. Still, going on even the version we have, it sounds like giving him some space and developing some self reliance around the favors being asked for is a reasonable conclusion. I think it's a bit silly to ignore that there are social conventions that make it hard for people to say no when you are asking for hospitality so directly.
All of which is a long winded way of saying that I deeply relate to someone who is offering help and doing favors, but clearly doing it out of a sense of obligation. While it would be better if he made a open refusal, that probably feels really rude or guilt inducing for him.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Ask culture vs guess culture.
If the expectation is that people must always express themselves in the most mature, culturally- and temporally-appropriate manner in order to be heard, then communication would never happen.
Yeah, my initial takes were founded on...honestly, I thought all involved were a lot younger based on the reasons for those arguments
If this is a friendship you want to continue, you need to have that talk to establish expectations and determine what those boundaries are, and decide from there whether or not you want to bounce (which is still a totally valid thing to do)
Someone in their 40s is not very likely to change to any great degree, however, compared to someone in their 20s, so it may as much be a conversation where you try to figure out whether it's worth salvaging
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