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Australian & NZ Politics: Double Dipping in Luxonry

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    1300 bucks, Jesus wept. I wish I could shake these people by ears until they realise that society and truly advances with the most needy amongst us live in comfort and dignity

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    You can get hail in the middle of summer, what the fuck?

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I've seen hail here pretty much year round, if the storms are right for it.

    The storm that went through Wellington the other day was an absolute freakish monster of a thing. at least one confirmed tornado that I know of, and the hail fell large enough and in quantities that some yards looked like snow.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    I've seen hail here pretty much year round, if the storms are right for it.

    The storm that went through Wellington the other day was an absolute freakish monster of a thing. at least one confirmed tornado that I know of, and the hail fell large enough and in quantities that some yards looked like snow.

    Oh yeah, it blew through Tuesday and when I went out Wednesday morning there were shredded leaves all over my deck and half my plants looked like they had been attacked by a blunt lawnmower. I've never seen half-centimeter hail moving twice as fast horizontally as vertically before. That wind was strong.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    1300 bucks, Jesus wept. I wish I could shake these people by ears until they realise that society and truly advances with the most needy amongst us live in comfort and dignity

    Luxon has seven houses, some of them paid for by taxpayer money, and it's somehow not a bigger deal. And the finance minister is complaining about not enough money, while they're also barreling ahead on the massive rebate for landlords.

    Why they aren't getting dragged on every single piece of media about this, I don't know. I feel sick and hopeless, currently.
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    You can get hail in the middle of summer, what the fuck?

    Temperate island climates directly exposed to Antarctica are wild.

    But this was notably unusual and it's part of the continuing pattern of more and more extreme weather events hitting us as climate change gets worse and worse

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2023
    Oh, I was exclaiming at the stupidity of the argument, not shock that it could happen

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    And on the fuck climatechange, and also fuck the poor front:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/504884/minister-pulls-brakes-on-cycling-and-walking-initiatives
    In a letter to local authorities Simeon Brown said he told the New Zealand Transport Authority (Waka Kotahi) to halt work on cycling and walking initiatives.

    "I understand that some local authorities have been developing programmes with NZTA and other stakeholders to reduce vehicle kilometres travelled (VKT) by the light vehicle fleet, using funding from the Climate Emergency Response Fund.

    "I have given notice to NZTA to end its work on these programmes, and to not commit any further funding to local authorities (beyond existing contractual obligations) to develop these programmes. Thank you for your understanding as we work through these changes."

    "In a statement, Brown said the cycling and walking initiatives were a waste of time and money."

    Just... what the fucking hell. We need more public transport, more cycling, more walking, and less cars. Not more roads.

    What's even more staggering is these iniatives started under, let me see... Oh yeah. John Key. So national is now even Anti-National? Who the fuck even knows. It's staggering just how petty this government is coming across. Petty, short sighted and venal.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    edited December 2023
    The car lobby is always so stupid and self-defeating because there's an entire library of study supporting the fact that mode shift is good for drivers, too, as taking people out of cars and moving them to bikes and transport means there's less traffic.

    But here's where it gets interesting: Waka Kotahi isn't a ministry. It's a public agency. Technically, Minister Brown can't actually direct them to fix so much as a pothole. He doesn't have governance over them, it's a public agency with a board. He can, as the government spokesperson on Transport policy advise them as to what the government priorities are... but ultimately, it's up to Waka Kotahi how much weight they give any requests as opposed to say, their own expert opinions as the organisation with the greatest research and expert knowledge on multi-mode transportation in the country.

    This governance structure is explicitly setup this way to insulate a major infrastructure agency from becoming a political ping-pong bauble, with goals projects and objectives getting swept every change of government. In other words, this is precisely the situation from which this set up is supposed to enable Waka Kotahi to pay as much attention to Simeon Brown as they do a wailing toddler who doesn't understand not to stick it hands into its own dirty diaper.

    Now, in general, agencies are liable to listen to their ministers because the government do have leverage such as budget and presumably public backing... but honestly, a vast amount of 'cycling' projects around the country are actually roading projects.

    For example, the SH2 cycleway from Petone to Wellington: actually a climate resilience seawall that just happens to have a cycleway on top of it that just happens to be between Wellington Harbour and the SH2 and the Hutt/Wairarapa/Hawke's Bay train line along the Wellington faultline. Like, it is a massively over-engineered cycleway that takes millions and millions of dollars out of the cycleway budget that would have better returns elsewhere... if the intention was to build cycleway infrastructure. But what it actually is is a resilience project protecting one of only 2 routes in and out of the capital in the event of a significant adverse event. This is not the only seawall cycleway in the country - far from it. And this is actually where more than half of all 'cycling money' goes (because seawalls are really expensive). It's not cycleways - it's resilience projects to protect roads and rail that just happen to have a cycleway on top of them (note: the cycling lobby complain about this vocally).

    It'd be nice to think this is just meaningless virtue signaling from someone who doesn't understand the actual levers of government because they're ignorant, but sadly I am also cynical about the fact that despite the fact this separation is supposed to exist, it's rarely ever been tested and I suspect Waka Kotahi will probably surrender ground here to keep the peace.

    My more realistic hope is that this blows over and is forgotten once the government start delivering other baubles the National voters want and Waka Kotahi can get back to delivering an informed & balanced transport infrastructure plan that suits all users.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    My more realistic hope is that this blows over and is forgotten once the government start delivering other baubles the National voters want and Waka Kotahi can get back to delivering an informed & balanced transport infrastructure plan that suits all users.

    Given everything we've seen out of this National/Act/NZFirst shitshow, and what some of those baubles might be (I'm signfianctly concered about Winston's anti-trans and conspiracy bullshit surfacing further, for instnace), I find this a dim hope honestly. Every action they've taken so far as a government has shown they're pretty committed to being regressive and corrupt (Seriously, why the fuck is Collins anywhere near power?)

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    1300 bucks, Jesus wept. I wish I could shake these people by ears until they realise that society and truly advances with the most needy amongst us live in comfort and dignity

    Luxon has seven houses, some of them paid for by taxpayer money, and it's somehow not a bigger deal. And the finance minister is complaining about not enough money, while they're also barreling ahead on the massive rebate for landlords.

    Why they aren't getting dragged on every single piece of media about this, I don't know. I feel sick and hopeless, currently.

    It astounded me when I arrived how corrupt and captured NZ is. Anything of substance the farmers want, they get. Not far behind them are the property developers and other assorted landowners. It’s remarkable that a country prides itself on being ‘least corrupt’ in the world is rife with it at the levels that actually matter.

    Also as an aside, and I know this is more of a token gesture, but I hope people ignore the culture war BS from the current gov around offical languages and keep referring to civil infrastructure and organisation with their te reo names

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited December 2023
    Tef wrote: »
    Tef wrote: »
    1300 bucks, Jesus wept. I wish I could shake these people by ears until they realise that society and truly advances with the most needy amongst us live in comfort and dignity

    Luxon has seven houses, some of them paid for by taxpayer money, and it's somehow not a bigger deal. And the finance minister is complaining about not enough money, while they're also barreling ahead on the massive rebate for landlords.

    Why they aren't getting dragged on every single piece of media about this, I don't know. I feel sick and hopeless, currently.

    It astounded me when I arrived how corrupt and captured NZ is. Anything of substance the farmers want, they get. Not far behind them are the property developers and other assorted landowners. It’s remarkable that a country prides itself on being ‘least corrupt’ in the world is rife with it at the levels that actually matter.

    Also as an aside, and I know this is more of a token gesture, but I hope people ignore the culture war BS from the current gov around offical languages and keep referring to civil infrastructure and organisation with their te reo names

    I talked about this briefly when i dipped into doing mental health support, but unfortunately, NZ's combination of tall poppy syndrome, she'll be right, no# 8 wire culture etc make for an incredibly toxic mix. It's not as openly toxic as say, American exceptionalism, but it breeds a very deep streak of "Well, what do the experts know? Tough it out, mate". You can see it in how popular Key was, despite being an outright creep - the fact he was viewed as "matey" and "Someone you can have a beer with" went a lot further than his odious behavior. One of the more subtle but brutal ways it manifests is that NZers are particlurly prone to discounting experiences they themselves have not had - Trying to explain to someone who's not dealt with WINZ exactly how soul crushing and horrific the experience is, well, i don't recommend it.

    The farmer lobby doesn't really surprise me - A lot of our economy is still for good and ill built on them, and there's a very deep divide between rural NZ and city NZ - especially when you look at the dense multicultriams of Wellington and Auckland. It's a culture where you're expected to be self-reliant and solve your own problems, and well, divided we fall is a cliche for a reason.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    Yeah. I was aghast that when I arrived, there was all this hullabaloo about the plan to introduce insulation and ventilation standards. Imagine such a cold and damp country only introducing minimum requirements so recently. To your point, yep; most people were very much a, shrug shoulders “she’ll be right” attitude about it

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    AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    Yeah. I was aghast that when I arrived, there was all this hullabaloo about the plan to introduce insulation and ventilation standards. Imagine such a cold and damp country only introducing minimum requirements so recently. To your point, yep; most people were very much a, shrug shoulders “she’ll be right” attitude about it

    Standards which, for all the ostensible 'war on landlords' remain basically voluntary, because enforcement is spotty at best.

    However, it goes to the earlier issue as well - a lot of our regulation for industry / business, is, basically self enforcement, and self management or industry body regulatory capture, so you get a lot of egregiously bad outcomes.

    n57PM0C.jpg
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Tef wrote: »
    Yeah. I was aghast that when I arrived, there was all this hullabaloo about the plan to introduce insulation and ventilation standards. Imagine such a cold and damp country only introducing minimum requirements so recently. To your point, yep; most people were very much a, shrug shoulders “she’ll be right” attitude about it

    Standards which, for all the ostensible 'war on landlords' remain basically voluntary, because enforcement is spotty at best.

    However, it goes to the earlier issue as well - a lot of our regulation for industry / business, is, basically self enforcement, and self management or industry body regulatory capture, so you get a lot of egregiously bad outcomes.

    It drives me insane the lack of empathy around renting etc, just the functional refusal to understand that this isn't a money dispensing machine, it's people's homes, where they live

    Our current flat is okay, we've been in it over 10 years, but it still gets really cold in the kitchen during winter (I'm pretty sure because there's no real insulation under the house), amongst other issues. And I'm all but certain the tiny back flat does not meet the healthy homes standard.

    The power disparity is huge

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    @Tef One can't help but find this illustrative of what you were talking about

    Government to repeal Taxation Principles Reporting Act under urgency

    "Revenue Minister Simon Watts on Tuesday morning announced the government's intention to scrap the Act, saying urgency was needed of that short deadline.

    "Requiring Inland Revenue to produce additional annual reports would take extra resources at a time when our focus should be on higher priority measures to address the cost of living and get the government's books back in order," he said.

    "Repeal of the Act ensures IRD's resources are focused on collecting tax and contributing to the delivery of the government's income tax reduction plans.""

    As someone on the NZ subreddit pointed out: "The report is due at the end of the year; the work is done and the money is already spent."

    Grief. I dont even go out of my way to find things to make me mad, this is just from checking the news regualrly, trying to stay informed, and the hits just keep coming.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Yeah, someone's going to OIA that near-final report.

    Then they'll expend even more resources reviewing what can be released (pro-tip: all of it, as it was initially prepared for public release) and going through all of the OIA process, just adding to the cost and 'disruption of focus'.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    Yeah, someone's going to OIA that near-final report.

    Then they'll expend even more resources reviewing what can be released (pro-tip: all of it, as it was initially prepared for public release) and going through all of the OIA process, just adding to the cost and 'disruption of focus'.

    I'd give it even odds it just flatout leaks instead, honestly.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    And right on que here comes the transphobia.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/governments-tough-stance-on-transgender-sports-sparks-controversy/SUOGZO7QZBEJJDD267U4K7DXVA/

    Fuck NZ First, and fuck all of the idiots who handed this craven bunch the reigns of power

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tax-cuts-paid-for-by-up-13k-more

    13k more kids in poverty, amongst many other piles of shit, to give landlords tax cuts.

    Meanwhile as a beneficary, i need to figure out if i want to keep saving for a new computer, or put money towards curtains - because i sure as fuck can't do both. Which means i'm probably going to stick with crappy curtains, because my computer's closer to giving up the ghost.

    And somewhow, despite this, support for the goverment is going up.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    And right on que here comes the transphobia.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/governments-tough-stance-on-transgender-sports-sparks-controversy/SUOGZO7QZBEJJDD267U4K7DXVA/

    Fuck NZ First, and fuck all of the idiots who handed this craven bunch the reigns of power

    I've had this growing idea for a while that some of this government's bullshit is a result of National not really having a plan/platform.

    Like, they were completely devoid of ideas except "3 waters is bad (and also racism)". It's a stupid idea, but it's the only arrow that hit while they were in opposition, so it became their whole platform, despite them not actually having an alternative. And this just became their whole policy pattern, running on a platform of "Not Labour, and our plans will be so much better (we can't explain how they'll work though)".

    The fact they didn't really have anything except 'Not Labour' left them wide open to capture by the fringe coalition when it came to negotiations. Because they didn't actually have their own position on anything, it let NZFirst and ACT just... set policy. So most of the agenda of this government is actually being dictated by tiny minority parties because National are bereft of anything approaching leadership direction or philosophy. There's just no driving cohesive philosophy behind the current leadership. It's not even that they are bland and charisma-less - they actively lack a meaningful vision of the future.

    So they were willing to compromise on everything, right up to the point where they felt it would put the public offside enough to threaten their government. So long as they think they'll hold reigns of power, they don;t care.


    And then we get this bullshit.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Hey now, they've got a very strong platform of cuts and retroactive landlord money.

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Even that's just 'Not Labour', though. It's just rollback some stuff Labour did that some people (who vote for us) were unhappy about.

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Unnamed 'traitor' politician cultivated by spies puts loyalty of all politicians in question, says former treasurer
    Australian intelligence has revealed a retired politician was recruited by an international spy ring, and in one plot attempted to introduce a prime minister's family to their foreign handlers.

    The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation's boss Mike Burgess said the politician had "sold out their country, party and former colleagues to advance the interests of the foreign regime".

    Mr Burgess said he believed the problem had been "neutralised", and the politician would not be "stupid enough to repeat what they've done in the past" now foreign interference laws could be used against them.

    But a furious Joe Hockey, the former treasurer and former ambassador to the United States, said it would "besmirch" the reputation of every politician until the compromised politician was named.

    Now we wait for the betting apps to announce the list of odds.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Odds it's Hockey?

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It's the guy that went swimming and never came back

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    It's the guy that went swimming and never came back

    Harold Holt has been gone for quite a while now.

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    AJRAJR Some guy who wrestles NorwichRegistered User regular
    The perfect alibi.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    AJR wrote: »
    The perfect alibi.

    He'd be 116, so gotta hand it to him for longevity. And out of the loop for more than half a century.

    There was apparently a book written in 1983 that suggested he was a spy.

    This is real "JFK faked his death, and is coming back to run for President" type vibes.

    So I'm sure there are some people who'll believe it.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510560/christopher-luxon-claims-52k-accommodation-payment-to-live-in-own-apartment

    Over twice what I get as a chronically ill person to live on

    Fuck me for being a bottom feeder, I guess.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    AJR wrote: »
    The perfect alibi.

    He'd be 116, so gotta hand it to him for longevity. And out of the loop for more than half a century.

    There was apparently a book written in 1983 that suggested he was a spy.

    This is real "JFK faked his death, and is coming back to run for President" type vibes.

    So I'm sure there are some people who'll believe it.

    Who knows what powers Aquaman gave him.

    Look, I'm having a stressful month. This is bringing me tiny joy.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510560/christopher-luxon-claims-52k-accommodation-payment-to-live-in-own-apartment

    Over twice what I get as a chronically ill person to live on

    Fuck me for being a bottom feeder, I guess.

    These assholes are always hypocrites. *Always*.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510560/christopher-luxon-claims-52k-accommodation-payment-to-live-in-own-apartment

    Over twice what I get as a chronically ill person to live on

    Fuck me for being a bottom feeder, I guess.

    These assholes are always hypocrites. *Always*.

    They sure are, and yet people KEEP voting them in, for some fucked reason. I'm just so tired, especially when i'm on going around 3 of the community mental health team, and my computer iscurrently falling to peices

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Butler wrote: »
    Unnamed 'traitor' politician cultivated by spies puts loyalty of all politicians in question, says former treasurer
    Australian intelligence has revealed a retired politician was recruited by an international spy ring, and in one plot attempted to introduce a prime minister's family to their foreign handlers.

    The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation's boss Mike Burgess said the politician had "sold out their country, party and former colleagues to advance the interests of the foreign regime".

    Mr Burgess said he believed the problem had been "neutralised", and the politician would not be "stupid enough to repeat what they've done in the past" now foreign interference laws could be used against them.

    But a furious Joe Hockey, the former treasurer and former ambassador to the United States, said it would "besmirch" the reputation of every politician until the compromised politician was named.

    Now we wait for the betting apps to announce the list of odds.

    Apparently the prime minster they went for was Malcolm Turnbull, going through his son with an attempted bribe.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Hipkins has come out with a statement that really shows how little fucking backbone Labour has:
    “The apartment at Premier House is dated and I agree it could do with a modest modernisation project. However I have not received notice that it is uninhabitable or condemned. I never lived there full time, nor did I receive an accommodation allowance to live elsewhere in Wellington."

    Why aren't you hammering the actual fucking point that someone cutting public services, ragging on beneficiaries for receiving too much money and owns SEVEN FUCKING HOUSES is claiming $52,000 NZ a year on taxpayers dime?

    This is why you lost.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Hipkins has come out with a statement that really shows how little fucking backbone Labour has:
    “The apartment at Premier House is dated and I agree it could do with a modest modernisation project. However I have not received notice that it is uninhabitable or condemned. I never lived there full time, nor did I receive an accommodation allowance to live elsewhere in Wellington."

    Why aren't you hammering the actual fucking point that someone cutting public services, ragging on beneficiaries for receiving too much money and owns SEVEN FUCKING HOUSES is claiming $52,000 NZ a year on taxpayers dime?

    This is why you lost.

    It's beyond the fucking pale, and it's incredibly , fuck, I don't have words

    This country hates the poor, it hates beneficiaries, it hates anyone who dares to express we should actually give a shit about others, let alone the vulnerable and in need.

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    Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    The problem they (mostly rich boomers) have is, people hate any suggestion that they didn't work hard for what they have. You see they worked hard to earn enough money to buy those seven houses, and now Supply Side Jesus is rewarding their hard work with ridiculous amounts of tax breaks and rental income. It does not occur to them for a micro-second that they aren't actually special in that regard, and pretty much everybody works hard for what they've got, but you go and "work hard" as a disability care worker and then go and "work hard" as an investment banker and tell me which one paid better and which one involved cleaning up more human faeces. It also never occurs to them that it is no longer the seventies and it is straight-up not possible to earn enough to buy a house simply by "working hard", mostly because they pulled up the ladder behind them after they got theirs.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    They have the same opinion the Australian National/Liberal parties have, which is simply summed up as "Fuck you, got mine".

    I am so glad I voted against these assholes. I will take great delight in voting against them again.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    The boost in polls Dutton has been enjoying continues to be proof that the Australian electorate are the dumbest fucking people.

    Technically I think America does a service by being stupider, because I'm pretty sure the only thing that actually keeps anything in check is the need to feel slightly superior to the average American voter, rather then logic, reason or sense.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Oh look there is always a tweet. Always.
    Luxon wrote:
    The days of taxpayers being treated like a bottomless ATM are over.

    Unless it's by you and your merry band of dipshits, am I right?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    speaking as an American voter.....

    yeah no i got nothing.

    Thread title courtesy of Aegeri, for being more clever than I am.

    fuck these next 3 years are going to be hell. i hate that the biggest things I can hope for is Seymour and Peters having a tiff and crashing the coalition.

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