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Australian & NZ Politics: Clever title here

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    As an employee of the South Australian state government I have no opinion that I can state in public on the fact that we're opening our borders next Monday despite us only being 74% double vaxxed and it was originally stated to hinge on 80%.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    AAAAHHH THE MASK COVERS THE NOSE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    AAAAHHH THE MASK COVERS THE NOSE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

    Gives a whole new layer of meaning to the phrase mouthbreather, don't it?

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Clive is sending out spam again 😡
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  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    Well the Libs are courting the right wing violent extremist qanon protesters. I can see no way in which this could turn out badly.

    Oh... apart from when this exact thing happened in the UK and the US and we saw multiple murders of elected officials and attempted coups. But why bother trying to preserve democracy and civil society when you might be able to get a vote from a guy with a southern cross neck tattoo carrying a noose.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    To the surprise of no-one, Gladys lied when only the poorest LGAs had the toughest restrictions imposed. Channt sent an email specifically stating that all areas should be locked down equally.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I'm shocked.

    Shocked.

    Well, not that shocked.

    Also, lets watch Western Sydney completely forget about it at the polls as well.

    Aegeriplufimtynic
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    I'm shocked.

    Shocked.

    Well, not that shocked.

    Also, lets watch Western Sydney completely forget about it at the polls as well.

    In any other country where most media isn’t owned by one person, you should bet they should have heard about it at least.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Ahahaha.

    After surprise denoting Simon bridges last night in a blatant attempt to hold on to power, Judith Collins has been rolled from leadership of the national party

    Don't let the door got you on the way out

    Now to watch them continue to implode

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    In fairness though, she's been utterly dreadful and they were just looking for any excuse to get her by this point.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    My only caution in celebrating this implosion, is watching ACT rising....

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    My only caution in celebrating this implosion, is watching ACT rising....

    But by comparison, Labor haven't gone down much and would govern with an election today with the greens or whatever. ACT is mostly cannibalising the votes from National, rather than gaining independent ground.

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    Gvzbgul
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    ACT will implode one day. Don't worry. Small parties are fragile.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Logically I know.

    But I'm still American. So the far right rising a bit makes me nervous

    exisThe Zombie Penguin
  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Yeah I think the scary part of the ACT ascendance is that National will inevitably align itself more with ACT in order to get votes back.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    exis wrote: »
    Yeah I think the scary part of the ACT ascendance is that National will inevitably align itself more with ACT in order to get votes back.

    Yeah, the right wing swing is genuinely a worry. As is honestly not having an opposition that's holding the government to account.

    But right in this moment I'm just enjoying watching national spray blood everywhere

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Logically I know.

    But I'm still American. So the far right rising a bit makes me nervous

    There's also the whole "be careful what you wish for" issue.

    "Oh, I hope Trump is the nominee, then there's no way Hilary can lose!"

    Don't be glad for something if you're not willing to live with the consequences. Because that Chinese curse sucks, and reality has a way of proving it.

    MorninglordlonelyahavaThe Zombie PenguinMr Ray
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Yeah, my concerns is this prompts a further rightward shift from national, doubling down on the already quite nasty divide we've got in new zealand - my biggest fear being we get another John Key and people vote for him going "Oh, let's give him a chance"

    Which...

    Nooooo.

    My hope, slim as it is, is this prompts a reforming of national that makes them a credible oppostion party that can hold labor's feet to the fire on various issues (Welfare reform, Housing! (FUCKING HOUSING), etc) and prompts good social movement. But that's a very dim hope.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I don't think it'll make much difference. National and ACT are about on par so far as "rightness" imo (definitely was ACT in the past but I'm not so sure now. Basically it's pick your flavour, Law and Order or free market woo). You're far less likely to get a Support Our Cops™ or Family Values™ party from ACT. But you'd get harmful free market policies from ACT, which... National loves those anyway.

    Besides, I doubt any voters at all are voting on ACT's policies (or could even name one). They're siding with ACT because they are somewhat stable compared to National. If National gets their act together the problem solves itself. I wonder if NZF was still in parliament whether some of the support National is losing would be going their way as a non-Labour party (or in dreamland, TOP). As is, ACT is the only option for disgruntled Nat voters.

  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    I don't think it'll make much difference. National and ACT are about on par so far as "rightness" imo (definitely was ACT in the past but I'm not so sure now. Basically it's pick your flavour, Law and Order or free market woo). You're far less likely to get a Support Our Cops™ or Family Values™ party from ACT. But you'd get harmful free market policies from ACT, which... National loves those anyway.

    Besides, I doubt any voters at all are voting on ACT's policies (or could even name one). They're siding with ACT because they are somewhat stable compared to National. If National gets their act together the problem solves itself. I wonder if NZF was still in parliament whether some of the support National is losing would be going their way as a non-Labour party (or in dreamland, TOP). As is, ACT is the only option for disgruntled Nat voters.

    Yeah, I think a lot of these ACT supporters would have been more traditionally aligned with Winston Peters. I think part of the reason for the ACT upswing is that Seymour is in a position where he can take jabs at the government without really needing to back anything up with practical policy alternatives, which is good for him because they don't really have anything to offer. He can generate headline-grabbing soundbytes and appear relevant as long as nobody actually stops to think about what an ACT government would actually mean. I thought this was interesting and true - I can't think of the last time I heard anything from an ACT MP other than Seymour:

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 28
    Omicron, a variant of concern with potential for high transmissability and penetration of vaccines, has arrived in Australia.

    Both cases were vaccinated, so were not in hotel quarantine.

    Both Australian travellers to South Africa who came back.

    Anyone coming back from those countries now has to quarantine for 14 days because shutting the barn door after the horses have bolted is how it works nowadays. The whole plane is in quarantine at least.

    Hopefully its nothing. But also no lessons will be learned.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Lessons were learned. The government just doesn’t care.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited 12:20AM
    I think this is a bit harsh.
    I don't see much else that could have been done.

    I presume the travellers were in home quarantine.
    Aside from that, I don't see how mandatory hotel quarantine until the pandemic exhausts itself would have been acceptable when Delta was already here.

    If governments were really serious about the pandemic, we'd go back to actual quarantine and ship all travelers into government funded, presumably comfortable, quarantine facilities for a standard duration.
    But I don't see that happening anywhere.
    And if it did tourists would be somewhat unwilling to sacrifice the time and money to quarantine, leading to impacts in those industries, which would spark anger at not being able to go back to 'normal life'.

    So aside this, I'd hope that we're still doing genomic testing within our own population, so any prior Omicron cases would have been detected.
    The turnaround on the cases we've just seen (sequenced overnight by the looks of it) implies we are.
    But with the number of Delta cases we've been having, I can't be sure.

    At the moment then, I'm just taking these two cases as cases in quarantine, and I'm not going to start panicking until we see confirmed community transmission.

    And even then, I'm cautiously optimistic that Omicron might be more infectious but less deadly, which is the direction we want Covid to go.
    I'm waiting for data on the less deadly part, but there's no reason why Covid should retain lethality while becoming more transmissible, so fingers crossed it didn't.
    And the only ways I see this pandemic 'ending' are when vaccines cause transmission to drop to zero, or when less-deadly strains out-compete the more-deadly ones and we drop below some risk of harm threshold.


    Looking at the NSW travel restrictions, the Omicron cases should still have been in their three day home quarantine period.
    So if they and the other passengers on the plane have been following the quarantine rules, we may not see any follow on cases except for household contacts.

    Three day home quarantine period (and a negative PCR test) doesn't seem long enough though IMO.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    To be fair to everyone, if Governments wanted to deal with this they would have put as much effort into vaccinating third world countries and those behind as their own populations. Anywhere the virus can spread unimpeded lets it develop mutations and variants. This should not be an incredible surprise when it keeps happening over and over (Lamda, Delta, Omnicron etc). It's like people have forgot that viruses evolve and change, they don't just appear out of magical pixie dust. It's why just letting the virus loose has always been dumber, because you just keep increasing the chances of getting more evolved and specialized variants that are better at infecting people.

    It should absolutely not be a surprise, but it's also not something that can be stopped unless you decide to do a massive push to vaccinate everyone everywhere, which the international community has not had the stomach for.

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    That would be more pertinent to us if the federal government wasn't also useless at vaccinating Australians, though.

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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Yeah I think that requires a degree of commitment to handling the virus properly that no government in the world is willing to apply - and would be pretty much impossible to convince their local population that the effort was worthwhile.

    I mean in NZ we only really pulled finger and started seriously, actively pushing vaccination after Delta was on the shore. Which is pretty crazy honestly. We couldn't drum up enough political will to force the issue, even while we were watching the reality of it taking hold around the world, knowing it would inevitably be here sooner or later and that vaccination was the only viable strategy.

    If that wasn't a 'real' enough threat, trying to convey the relatively abstract notion of some potential future mutation that may occur halfway around the world and eventually impact us... it's a non-starter.

    discrider
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Oh no I have to quarantine for two weeks my life is ruined this is unacceptable!

    I have no sympathy for this position.

    It's such a short amount of time ffs don't even pretend it's some big agony.

    I'm also completely unconcerned with going back to normal life. Humanity has adapted to worse problems than this but suddenly every thing just had to go back to normal as fast as possible, reality of the situation be damned, muh economy muh tourism.

    Yoyo on again off again restrictions are going to fuck that anyway. People won't be willing to travel even if it is open because they won't know when the yoyo will swing back against them.

    The whole world is still vainly trying to ram square pegs (what used to be normal) into a round hole (how things actually are whether we want it to be or not). So there's no actual serious attempt and planning for adaption to living with this new reality. Its just yoyoing back and forth from one extreme to the other. Trying to hold on for a return to normal that reality has no obligation to give us. Its the least helpful, most destructive way to go about it.

    But hey we can pretend theres nothing we can do and do the stupidest most short sighted thing possible paving the way for the worst scenario to be even more likely. It's what people usually do no need to break the streak right?

    Or maybe, sometimes, unfairly, unhappily, at cost, things have to gasp oh no change permanently. Or at least for the foreseeable future. And you have to make plans for that future instead of this wish fulfilment and desperate hope that its all going to be over just because we want it to. A hope we have no guarantee of ever getting, but we sure can actively scuttle the chances of the way we are acting with our desperate yoyos.

    And maybe hopefully one day we can go back to the old totally free normal. But we will be ok because we will have worked out how to live if that can't happen.

    But instead we won't do anything but cling to the old ways of thinking because a couple of weeks of your life is unacceptable and is "too harsh". Give me a break. I'm not asking for the fucking inquisition here.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited 2:07AM
    honestly I would be perfectly fine at this point if WA's borders remained closed indefinitely

    Build some proper quarantine facilities so people can visit for compassionate reasons, or permanently relocate if required to bring families closer together, and life goes on permanently changed.

    Life in WA from March 2020 to December 2021 looks pretty much the exact same as any other 2 year period except that we can't travel. It's been hard on my wife not being able to see her side of the family, but we both feel it'd be much worse living somewhere that had to have constant restrictions, hospitalizations, long-term health effects for survivors, and deaths.

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Oh no I have to quarantine for two weeks my life is ruined this is unacceptable!

    I have no sympathy for this position.

    It's such a short amount of time ffs don't even pretend it's some big agony.

    I'm also completely unconcerned with going back to normal life.

    I agree.
    We could have changed our entry policies ages ago, and should have had federally funded quarantine facilities set up at the beginning of the year.
    And it's shameful that we did not and had to go through the Delta wave because of this.

    But I also don't see how you convince the tourist industry to accept two weeks mandatory quarantine.
    I would not be going to another country for a holiday if I have to spend one month doing nothing.
    So I would imagine that a lot of these businesses would be hurting for customers.

    Nor how you convince PMs or other rich jerks who want to go to Hawaii.
    Presumably you chase them with big sticks until they follow the same rules that everyone else has to.

    Nor people who send death threats to Daniel Andrews.

    So even if our government had the spine to implement such measures, I have to wonder how politically viable it would be.
    I'm just ready to be disappointed by the election next year again.
    exis wrote: »
    Yeah I think that requires a degree of commitment to handling the virus properly that no government in the world is willing to apply - and would be pretty much impossible to convince their local population that the effort was worthwhile.

    I mean in NZ we only really pulled finger and started seriously, actively pushing vaccination after Delta was on the shore. Which is pretty crazy honestly. We couldn't drum up enough political will to force the issue, even while we were watching the reality of it taking hold around the world, knowing it would inevitably be here sooner or later and that vaccination was the only viable strategy.

    If that wasn't a 'real' enough threat, trying to convey the relatively abstract notion of some potential future mutation that may occur halfway around the world and eventually impact us... it's a non-starter.

    I mean yeah.
    We had epidemiologists in Aus before Delta landed saying that the level of vaccine hesitancy might only come down once it was on our shores.
    That the nervousness over AZ blood clots needed the threat of Covid, here and now, for people to re-evaluate and get to a more reasonable risk posture.



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