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Australian & NZ Politics: PrimMin ScoMo No Mo'

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I'm so fucking angry at those entitled children that fled Auckland.

    And to be clear, I don't mean actual children. A 35 and 26 year old pair used essential worker papers to leave Auckland (level 4), drive to Hamilton (level 2), get on a plane, fly to Queenstown (level 2), and then rent a car and drive to Wanaka (level 2). To go to a holiday house.

    They have decided tonight to not seek name suppression, and are saying that they're willing to face the consequences of their actions. But. Just. I. Fuck you, you entitled assholes.

    I've been stuck in my house for I don't even know how long, leaving only to go to the dairy and to get 2 Covid tests. I'm working full time, parenting, teaching, and going slowly crazy. And only now after you potentially put 3 entire other cities and their populations at risk, NOW, you're willing to face the consequences?

    So. Fucking. Angry.

  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    I'm so fucking angry at those entitled children that fled Auckland.

    And to be clear, I don't mean actual children. A 35 and 26 year old pair used essential worker papers to leave Auckland (level 4), drive to Hamilton (level 2), get on a plane, fly to Queenstown (level 2), and then rent a car and drive to Wanaka (level 2). To go to a holiday house.

    They have decided tonight to not seek name suppression, and are saying that they're willing to face the consequences of their actions. But. Just. I. Fuck you, you entitled assholes.

    I've been stuck in my house for I don't even know how long, leaving only to go to the dairy and to get 2 Covid tests. I'm working full time, parenting, teaching, and going slowly crazy. And only now after you potentially put 3 entire other cities and their populations at risk, NOW, you're willing to face the consequences?

    So. Fucking. Angry.

    I'm not holding my breath for consequences for them, though it's entirely possible that they've pissed off enough people that there may actually be some. Certainly, their statement highlights a number of ways in which they thought it was fine, and the rules shouldn't apply to them, so I'm not seeing a great deal that's going to reduce that anger otherwise.

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    lonelyahavaexisThe Zombie Penguin
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I might feel a bit more lenient of it were a bunch of teenagers because teenagers are dumb and don't have fully functioning brains and no real whatever that role argument is against letting them vote.

    But this was two fully grown adults.

    I'm just.

    So angry.

    electricitylikesmeplufimThe Zombie Penguin
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Rules don’t apply to the rich

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

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  • FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    I'm so fucking angry at those entitled children that fled Auckland.

    And to be clear, I don't mean actual children. A 35 and 26 year old pair used essential worker papers to leave Auckland (level 4), drive to Hamilton (level 2), get on a plane, fly to Queenstown (level 2), and then rent a car and drive to Wanaka (level 2). To go to a holiday house.

    They have decided tonight to not seek name suppression, and are saying that they're willing to face the consequences of their actions. But. Just. I. Fuck you, you entitled assholes.

    I've been stuck in my house for I don't even know how long, leaving only to go to the dairy and to get 2 Covid tests. I'm working full time, parenting, teaching, and going slowly crazy. And only now after you potentially put 3 entire other cities and their populations at risk, NOW, you're willing to face the consequences?

    So. Fucking. Angry.

    4 cities. They transferred flights at Wellington airport.

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Meanwhile in Australia, george christensen is calling for people to DoS the Therapeutic Goods Administration because they're not supporting Ivermectin use against Covid.
    And we're apparently receiving 10x the normal amount of human consumable stuff in imports for some reason, according to the Guardian.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Meanwhile in Australia, george christensen is calling for people to DoS the Therapeutic Goods Administration because they're not supporting Ivermectin use against Covid.
    And we're apparently receiving 10x the normal amount of human consumable stuff in imports for some reason, according to the Guardian.

    I mean the advantage of liver failure is it's a fairly quick death so you stop taking up a bed.

    plufim
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Yesterday it was revealed Christian Porter's action against the ABC was funded by a $1 million dollar anonymous donation. Which.. uh... fucking what.

    As has been pointed out, this is a huge potential for corruption, since he now owns *someone*.

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Malcolm turnbull pointed out that anonymous political donations are illegal, to boot, though there might be a loophole in play here.

  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    Porter shouldn't be allowed to stay in parliament. (I mean, he should have been kicked out long ago but...)

    Currently he cannot rule out having his legal fees being paid by ISIS, or North Korea, or the Bandidos bikie gang.

    MorganVtynicMorninglordMr Ray
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    The TGA is now suing Craig Kelly for misrepresenting the TGA's vaccine advice.
    Which is hilarious.
    A gross waste of taxpayer money to have a public department suing a parliamentarian, but a necessary one, and hilarious.

    MorganV
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Morrison is now seeking 'urgent advice' on whether using a blind trust for funding his lawsuit was a breach of ministerial conduct.

    So he's concerned.

    My guess, it is, but they will ramble off some bullshit about the spirit of the situation and donations and such until journalists lose interest and then quietly reinstate Porter to his old job.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    So far the attempt at quashing the press attention is churning up more muck than was revealed by the original abc investigation, so I'm expecting by Christmas we'll have photos of porter trying to set fire to the abc Canberra offices.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Personally, I wouldn't be surprised Murdoch just throws a million at anyone who sues the ABC.
    I mean, how much is he worth, and would this be a negligible amount to him?

    Mr Ray
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Not COVID news: We just dropped the French submarine project in favor of nuclear boats

    For one thing: good, for a whole lot of reasons. If this let's us backdoor a nuclear industry into this country, I am all for this. It's certainly a much more suitable system for the type of thing we actually need submarines for (namely spying a whole lot).

    Dongs GaloreHarry Dresden
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Hahaha Biden forgot Morrison’s name in his announcement, calling him ‘the fellow down under’.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    I wonder what that means for all the workers in SA who were working on the French subs?

    The French subs contract was one of the first extremely dodgy contracts awarded by this government, who didn't follow proper open market process and instead just awarded it to whoever

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    I wonder what that means for all the workers in SA who were working on the French subs?

    The French subs contract was one of the first extremely dodgy contracts awarded by this government, who didn't follow proper open market process and instead just awarded it to whoever

    The corporation, especially the board and the C-class? They'll be fine.

    The people on the factory floor? They're likely fucked.

  • Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    Nuclear submarines are a terrible choice for Australia's interests. The maritime approaches to Australia are warm and shallow, these conditions make it easier to find a nuclear submarine which relies on it's ability to dive far deeper to much colder waters to conceal itself. Diesel-electric submarines are perfect for these conditions. Despite what the media will tell you, the Collins class submarines are very very good at the job they were designed to do after their design issues were fixed over 2 decades ago.

    However, a diesel-electric submarine based out of our base at HMAS Sterling in Perth doesn't have the range to reach China (from Christmas Island would be another story...), so what I'd say has happened here is old mate Joe has leaned on the Australian government to acquire a nuclear option so that we can do 'more of our fair share' in deterring China.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    Nuclear submarines are a terrible choice for Australia's interests. The maritime approaches to Australia are warm and shallow, these conditions make it easier to find a nuclear submarine which relies on it's ability to dive far deeper to much colder waters to conceal itself. Diesel-electric submarines are perfect for these conditions. Despite what the media will tell you, the Collins class submarines are very very good at the job they were designed to do after their design issues were fixed over 2 decades ago.

    However, a diesel-electric submarine based out of our base at HMAS Sterling in Perth doesn't have the range to reach China (from Christmas Island would be another story...), so what I'd say has happened here is old mate Joe has leaned on the Australian government to acquire a nuclear option so that we can do 'more of our fair share' in deterring China.

    I mean...realistically Australia isn't going to be fighting a war in our territorial waters. We're fucked either way if the situation gets to that point - whereas running subs which are compatible with the US's interest against the only party which would plausibly field them against us is just sound strategic planning.

    Dongs GaloreTryCatcherMr RayexisHarry Dresden
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Defense contracts and capability development just blows my mind. Planning contracts like this with 20-25 year timeframes, while the technology (and geopolitical situation) shifts under you, is just hilariously complicated.

    Solvent on
    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    Nuclear submarines are a terrible choice for Australia's interests. The maritime approaches to Australia are warm and shallow, these conditions make it easier to find a nuclear submarine which relies on it's ability to dive far deeper to much colder waters to conceal itself. Diesel-electric submarines are perfect for these conditions. Despite what the media will tell you, the Collins class submarines are very very good at the job they were designed to do after their design issues were fixed over 2 decades ago.

    However, a diesel-electric submarine based out of our base at HMAS Sterling in Perth doesn't have the range to reach China (from Christmas Island would be another story...), so what I'd say has happened here is old mate Joe has leaned on the Australian government to acquire a nuclear option so that we can do 'more of our fair share' in deterring China.

    I mean...realistically Australia isn't going to be fighting a war in our territorial waters. We're fucked either way if the situation gets to that point - whereas running subs which are compatible with the US's interest against the only party which would plausibly field them against us is just sound strategic planning.

    Kind of weird that your government is adamantly refusing to develop the ability to manufacture your own fuel, though. Doesn't Australia have huge uranium resources?

    Anyway, as an American I'm glad Australia is taking its role as a regional power seriously, and I hope we live up to our end of the partnership.

    e: also I think that as a matter of Australia's own strategic interests, you need to be able to project force into the South China Sea just to have a credible voice what happens in your own neighborhood.

    Dongs Galore on
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  • Mr FuzzbuttMr Fuzzbutt Registered User regular
    Kind of weird that your government is adamantly refusing to develop the ability to manufacture your own fuel, though. Doesn't Australia have huge uranium resources?

    The government looooooves coal though, and doing anything with the uranium might make the coal industry nervous.

    FYYss9j.png
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Kind of weird that your government is adamantly refusing to develop the ability to manufacture your own fuel, though. Doesn't Australia have huge uranium resources?

    The government looooooves coal though, and doing anything with the uranium might make the coal industry nervous.

    There's the other issue of disposal. The Australian government has been adamant about not wanting large scale disposal sites, like Yucca Mountain. I remember there was "debate" among some of the countries that we export uranium to, that Australia should be required to take the waste, and the government was like "Yeah, no, it wasn't a loan."

    Also, we've got the NIMBY issue. Wonthaggi Desalination should have been part of a nuclear facility (it's clearly the smartest option), but noone wanted to even consider a nuclear site 130km from the city.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    how can you have a disposal problem in such a huge country? can't you put it in that condemned asbestos mine in the middle of the desert that's already off-limits to everyone?

    Kayne Red Robe
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    how can you have a disposal problem in such a huge country? can't you put it in that condemned asbestos mine in the middle of the desert that's already off-limits to everyone?

    Can't just leave it unattended. It needs to be kept secure, lest it irradiate everything, and could make it's way into food or water cycles. In which case you need to protect it, because a nuclear waste site, even in the middle of nowhere, would be a target for criminality/terrorism. Meaning you then need not just the transport infrastructure to get it there, but a constant presence of administrators and guards, indefinitely, and the support structures necessary to maintain it.

  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    how can you have a disposal problem in such a huge country? can't you put it in that condemned asbestos mine in the middle of the desert that's already off-limits to everyone?

    Can't just leave it unattended. It needs to be kept secure, lest it irradiate everything, and could make it's way into food or water cycles. In which case you need to protect it, because a nuclear waste site, even in the middle of nowhere, would be a target for criminality/terrorism. Meaning you then need not just the transport infrastructure to get it there, but a constant presence of administrators and guards, indefinitely, and the support structures necessary to maintain it.

    Can you contract a few emus? I understand they have a good track record.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    how can you have a disposal problem in such a huge country? can't you put it in that condemned asbestos mine in the middle of the desert that's already off-limits to everyone?

    Can't just leave it unattended. It needs to be kept secure, lest it irradiate everything, and could make it's way into food or water cycles. In which case you need to protect it, because a nuclear waste site, even in the middle of nowhere, would be a target for criminality/terrorism. Meaning you then need not just the transport infrastructure to get it there, but a constant presence of administrators and guards, indefinitely, and the support structures necessary to maintain it.

    Can you contract a few emus? I understand they have a good track record.

    Emus are just big geese. You know how big an asshole a goose is? Imagine a 5' tall, 100lb goose. That's an emu.

    I mean, at least they're not cassowarys. Those things are c***s.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    Rules don’t apply to the rich

    There's a reason why historically nobles had summer houses to retreat during plague season.
    According to work cited by scholar Kira L. S. Newman in the Journal of Social History, during the plagues in early modern England, the advice was to “flie far…flie speedily … [and] returne slowly.” Yet many were not able to pay for transportation or new lodging elsewhere, so they stayed. Indeed, as epidemiologist Mary Elizabeth Wilson writes in the journal Epidemiology, the 1678-80 plague in Vienna “became known as the beggars’ disease when observers noted that, for each 1,000 poor who died, scarcely 10 of the wealthy died.”

    Having the means to escape was a ticket to survival. So was the information that an outbreak was becoming an epidemic. With the increase of plague outbreaks in Europe between the fourteenth and seventeenth centuries, the Church of England began monitoring health and death in the population for the bills of mortality, which were printed weekly by the clerk of London. Epidemiologist Alfredo Morabia writes (also in Epidemiology) that “when those who were financially able to move out of London read in the Bills that plague deaths had seized the poor parishes, they could organize an ordered retreat.”

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    Anyway, as an American I'm glad Australia is taking its role as a region
    e: also I think that as a matter of Australia's own strategic interests, you need to be able to project force into the South China Sea just to have a credible voice what happens in your own neighborhood.

    Well, a couple of things.
    1. People can have more or less expansive definitions of 'neighborhood' but the South China Sea is not that close to Australia.
    2. Projecting naval force large distances is something superpowers do. The vast majority of countries in the world do not have the ability to, and do not need to, project substantial naval forces. Saying something like this belies a very superpower-centric bias in your thinking.

    Regarding the waste of nuclear energy, though, it always annoys me that it's an incomplete discussion. Yeah, nuclear waste is hard to deal with. But our government's current propping up coal power. You know what else is massively polluting and has huge waste problems? Sure, really convincingly moving to renewables would be the best solution but given that the actual people in power want to give millions and millions of dollars to people promising to build suitably industrial looking big facilities, then turning nuclear looks like an ok option, given the status quo or likely alternatives.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

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  • Sanguinius666264Sanguinius666264 Registered User regular
    Eh, we could definitely store nuclear waste if we really put our minds to it. It wouldn't be that hard - we're geologically stable, we have a massive nation and we could really store it way in the outback with pretty minimal risk to any population centres. It has challenges, but they're not insurmountable.

    If we do go with nuke subs then ok we can force project a lot further. Ideally we'd have both nuke & diesel fleets, because the Collins Class is pretty good for operating in our territorial waters and they're quiet, too. We're also looking at a ballistic missile capability. Mount the two together and it's a pretty decent home grown deterrent to a belligerent China. We're never going to have the required population to mount a significant defence of the continent and even a Brisbane Line approach would fail in the event of a serious ground invasion. The tyranny of distance cuts both ways though and the sea/air gap has always been pretty handy in really deterring anyone from really considering an invasion.

    All of it is a bit moot though. We'll never see a Chinese invasion. We're already economically wedded to them. What would they get that we don't already sell to them?

    electricitylikesmeLord_Asmodeus
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    Yeah, exactly. In this sparsely populated mostly geologically stable continent, management of nuclear waste shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Not to say that it's trivial! Just that for every difficulty, genuinely compare it against the issues with existing power sources, too. Currently everyone in the La Trobe valley gets coal dust and smoke pumped into their lungs, but we don't seem to get a lot of discussion of waste management costs there.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    Yeah, exactly. In this sparsely populated mostly geologically stable continent, management of nuclear waste shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Not to say that it's trivial! Just that for every difficulty, genuinely compare it against the issues with existing power sources, too. Currently everyone in the La Trobe valley gets coal dust and smoke pumped into their lungs, but we don't seem to get a lot of discussion of waste management costs there.

    We're actually pretty good at nuclear waste to: the vitreous glass process for encapsulation of the fallout from the Maralinga tests by the British was an Australian technology that works really well. So we certainly could become a leader in the long term, safe storage of nuclear waste but as with all things nuclear we're not willing to touch it while coal companies cause respiratory problems all along the train routes because they won't cover the god damn cars.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    All of it is a bit moot though. We'll never see a Chinese invasion. We're already economically wedded to them. What would they get that we don't already sell to them?

    It's not solely about economic power, it's about territory and international alliances and China of late is flexing on it's neighbours and has made economic sanctions in Australia's direction whenever challenged, which has caused friction with their relationship. Australia needs to stop relying so much on China economically.

    electricitylikesmeLord_Asmodeus
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    In other China related news, I see that China has formally applied to join CPTPP, which is an amusing and predictable outcome of the US abandoning the treaty, and presumably has been brought forward to coincide with the last couple of days.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    how can you have a disposal problem in such a huge country? can't you put it in that condemned asbestos mine in the middle of the desert that's already off-limits to everyone?

    Can't just leave it unattended. It needs to be kept secure, lest it irradiate everything, and could make it's way into food or water cycles. In which case you need to protect it, because a nuclear waste site, even in the middle of nowhere, would be a target for criminality/terrorism. Meaning you then need not just the transport infrastructure to get it there, but a constant presence of administrators and guards, indefinitely, and the support structures necessary to maintain it.

    Can you contract a few emus? I understand they have a good track record.

    Emus are just big geese. You know how big an asshole a goose is? Imagine a 5' tall, 100lb goose. That's an emu.

    I mean, at least they're not cassowarys. Those things are c***s.

    I once had to protect wellington zoo's Emu from a very small goose.

    It was pretty funny watching them cower behind me from this tiny, angry goose.

    Also for fucks sake, more aucklanders have been caught broaching lockdown. Fuckers.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So many fuckers.

    So angry.

    Just.

    I want to leave my house.

    You know, other than to go get a vaccine. Which I did.

    And then a quick food shop since it was right there.

    First time I've been in the food store for 6 weeks.


    They're all of of twinings lady grey.

    I might have to dip into the fancy tea soon.


    Fuckers breaking lockdown are going to be the death of us

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    ACT press conference today was about new Doherty research.
    Doherty confirming that the 70 and 80% national targets are people that have had double doses on that day, and that the three week lag for the second dose to take effect has been taken into account.
    Which:
    - is preposterous. A community that ends up going from 60 to 70 on the last day is going to be worse off than one that goes from 69 to 70. So I assume Doherty thinks such effects are too small to matter.
    - means we need to get vaccinated at least three weeks out from our communities meeting the target to properly protect ourselves from any major relaxation of restrictions

    discrider on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    Anyway, as an American I'm glad Australia is taking its role as a region
    e: also I think that as a matter of Australia's own strategic interests, you need to be able to project force into the South China Sea just to have a credible voice what happens in your own neighborhood.

    Well, a couple of things.
    1. People can have more or less expansive definitions of 'neighborhood' but the South China Sea is not that close to Australia.
    2. Projecting naval force large distances is something superpowers do. The vast majority of countries in the world do not have the ability to, and do not need to, project substantial naval forces. Saying something like this belies a very superpower-centric bias in your thinking.

    The SCS disputes directly involve your immediate neighbor, Indonesia, and all of their neighbors, so it would be very irresponsible to think Australia has no stake in what happens there.

    It's not superpower-centrism to say a regional power should have credible military capability. All this means is Australia will have some say in what happens up there diplomatically, compared to if you had nothing that could affect the outcome of a military confrontation.

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    it would be very irresponsible to think Australia has no stake in what happens there.
    Not what I said.
    It's not superpower-centrism to say a regional power should have credible military capability.
    I'd suggest that credible military capacity != ability to project long-range naval forces (for small nations, that is), however, military strategy is not my bag so I'm ok to listen rather than expostulate too much.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

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