Great way to avoid immigration AND the costs related to language classes for them. Also gotta love the francotropic clause in that statement. "We're fine with you coming to Quebec if you or your ancestors were under a french colonial system at some point". Lovely message.
I know it's a mistake to post this here but i had to vent because this made me mad this morning. My tax dollars at work.
Legault is really coasting: that's what's has been going on for a while, in practice; it's not even meaningful new xenophobia.
Then again, it's not as if Legault is not restricting immigration directly, no matter the language. Kinda a problem right now.
Great way to avoid immigration AND the costs related to language classes for them. Also gotta love the francotropic clause in that statement. "We're fine with you coming to Quebec if you or your ancestors were under a french colonial system at some point". Lovely message.
I know it's a mistake to post this here but i had to vent because this made me mad this morning. My tax dollars at work.
I have two French immigrants under my supervision. Both from France, both speak perfect French. Both have PhDs. One now has a job as a university professor, the other is my current post-doc. Both are struggling to figure out immigration and stay here.
I'd be ok with this 100% francophone immigration idea if we at least had a system that made it easy for our current French-spekaing, well-integrated, highly-qualified, job-holding immigrants to stay here.
Our system right now is stupid and broken. It doesn't need a new restriction, it needs a complete overhaul.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Oh, oh no, they don't want educated french people. They want a cheap, foreign, labour force to bolster their economy and to keep our criminally low wages stagnant, as always.
It's same bullshit as everywhere else in Canada, but Legault gets to wrap it in a, 'well, at least they'll be French!' which probably makes the 500k immigrants a year plan somewhat politically viable in Quebec.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...).
Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
Oh, oh no, they don't want educated french people. They want a cheap, foreign, labour force to bolster their economy and to keep our criminally low wages stagnant, as always.
It's same bullshit as everywhere else in Canada, but Legault gets to wrap it in a, 'well, at least they'll be French!'
No, no, no. Legault doesn't want uneducated people either. He wants cheap local labour.
And you get that cheap local labour by driving the wages down through mass immigration of cheap foreign labour.
No, that would involve immigration. Legault does it by gutting assistance programs and education.
He's not rational on the topic. The province is spending a lot on machine learning research (not enough, obviously), and then make it hard to keep the resulting PhDs.
It's a fundamental rejection of immigration, as a core premise of the CAQ's belief system.
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HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
Because Quebec is gonna Quebec, most people I know who have elected to get PR have just ended up moving to Ontario for a bit, and do the application from there rather than deal with the absolute shit show that is dealing with the CSQ, then coming back.
The 100% Francophone immigration is utter horseshit and completely at odds with the big push to make Quebec a tech hub, but it plays well with people who vote for the CAQ....
It's not Québec gonna Québec: getting the selection certificate used to be the easiest part of immigration.
It's CAQ gonna oppose immigration. Language is not even a factor, it's merely the excuse they use to make their xenophobia palatable to enough of the province to win elections.
Although part of the problem, from what I heard, is that there's a per-province quota for permanent residency, and Québec used to burn through that as soon as it was available, while other provinces were not filling their quota. So now, Québec has a waiting list, while other provinces do not.
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...).
Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
Really? I'm dissapointed to hear this. I spent a grand total of 4 days in Moncton a few years ago and really had bought into the NB brand of bilingualism. I thought it really was a place that embraced both languages. I was there for my Wife's cousin's (Who part Acadian and Part Winnipeg 4th gen Ukrainian) wedding and I was blown away at how smoothly and easily people shifted from French to English, sometimes mid-sentence. Even waiting in line at a Shoppers Drug Mart between two chatty older ladies was a pleasant experience just listening to them jibber-jabber. Very different to my many trips to Montreal (which I love) and my one overnight stop Quebec City (Never again).
Also, 70 year old Acadians can fuckin' party. It was great wedding!
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
I know! I keep telling them to stop using their degenerates version of the language, but they refuse!
Although, amusingly, if more settlers had come from the south of France, Québec would be linguistically isolated... Then again, it's not a coincidence that France shipped people speaking the language of Ile de France...
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
Kings and Emperors have fallen out of favor! Vive la république
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
Kings and Emperors have fallen out of favor! Vive la république
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
Kings and Emperors have fallen out of favor! Vive la république
Calm down dude. There's no reason to lose our heads over this.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
Kings and Emperors have fallen out of favor! Vive la république
I've hated premiers in my life ( Marois, Kenney & Redford come to mind) but this is the first time living through the reign of someone I think is mentally unwell and pretty dumb. All the premiers I mentioned earlier? I hated them but they were not unintelligent, quite the opposite. This is like giving the reigns to a Great replacement facebook group mod.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...). Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Depending on the Quebec accent and dialect, it can actually be pretty hard to understand. It can have some real cocky rhyming slang energy.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
To break it down simply; your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. This can be true but is not always the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
I think your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. Which is not the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
Your post is literally insulting French, and assuming that English is naturally spoken by everyone. Also, no, the governing class does not speak French. They speak English. Some of them also speak French, usually at low fluency.
English is required for basically everything, but English speakers don't notice it because that requirement so strong, they can safely assume everyone they interact with speak English.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
To break it down simply; your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. This can be true but is not always the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
I do not understand what definition of "elite" or "prestige" you are using here. It does not make any sense.
French is not the language of the elite in, for example, the manner of french during the Norman Conquest. Or, for a different way this works, like Latin during huge swaths of european history. It's not a signifier of education or social class.
I'm just really confused what you are trying to say here.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
I think your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. Which is not the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
Your post is literally insulting French, and assuming that English is naturally spoken by everyone. Also, no, the governing class does not speak French. They speak English. Some of them also speak French, usually at low fluency.
English is required for basically everything, but English speakers don't notice it because that requirement so strong, they can safely assume everyone they interact with speak English.
Dude, The majority of premiers in our lifetime are from QC and most of those were fluently bilingual. Even the cowboy Harper had pretty passable french. Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass .....
Your post is pretty much the flipside of the current AB victimhood
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
I think your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. Which is not the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
Your post is literally insulting French, and assuming that English is naturally spoken by everyone. Also, no, the governing class does not speak French. They speak English. Some of them also speak French, usually at low fluency.
English is required for basically everything, but English speakers don't notice it because that requirement so strong, they can safely assume everyone they interact with speak English.
Dude, The majority of premiers in our lifetime are from QC and most of those were fluently bilingual. Even the cowboy Harper had pretty passable french. Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass .....
Your post is pretty much the flipside of the current AB victimhood
Ontario pop = 14,223,942 % of total pop = 38.45%
Quebec pop = 8,501,833 % of total pop = 22.98%
Combined % of total pop = 61.43%
Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass? Nah, it's 61.43%.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
I think your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. Which is not the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
Your post is literally insulting French, and assuming that English is naturally spoken by everyone. Also, no, the governing class does not speak French. They speak English. Some of them also speak French, usually at low fluency.
English is required for basically everything, but English speakers don't notice it because that requirement so strong, they can safely assume everyone they interact with speak English.
Dude, The majority of premiers in our lifetime are from QC and most of those were fluently bilingual. Even the cowboy Harper had pretty passable french. Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass .....
Your post is pretty much the flipside of the current AB victimhood
Ontario pop = 14,223,942 % of total pop = 38.45%
Quebec pop = 8,501,833 % of total pop = 22.98%
Combined % of total pop = 61.43%
Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass? Nah, it's 61.43%.
Don't worry, I have the opposite talk with all the rednecks here that think we are not represented fairly..... We are
But yes, Canadian politics is keeping those 2 x happy and everything else comes after .... We have 4.5 mil or 4th biggest amount of seats but get ignored since we are sure as hell not going red and the conservatives know they don't need to put any effort to get the vote.
If an immigrant chooses to learn English then they can do well in any other province and do okay in Quebec
If they choose French then they can do well in Quebec and okay in New Brunswick and everywhere else is around 10% or worse which isn't great for getting a job
Unless you have a plan to get huge chunks of the country speaking French that's not going to change, English simply provides better opportunities across the board
Great way to avoid immigration AND the costs related to language classes for them. Also gotta love the francotropic clause in that statement. "We're fine with you coming to Quebec if you or your ancestors were under a french colonial system at some point". Lovely message.
I know it's a mistake to post this here but i had to vent because this made me mad this morning. My tax dollars at work.
I knew i did a bad thing this morning and did it anyway.
I'm sorry. I was angry, i wanted to vent and this was not the correct thing to do. Bringing up language in the Canadian politics thread is never a good idea.
The census data shows the de facto English requirements in Canada are much stronger than Québec's de jure requirements.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
To break it down simply; your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. This can be true but is not always the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
I would argue though, that requiring bilingualism or an effort towards bilingualism isn't the worst thing to have if the country has two official languages is a federal policy and priority. Especially in our civil service.
Great way to avoid immigration AND the costs related to language classes for them. Also gotta love the francotropic clause in that statement. "We're fine with you coming to Quebec if you or your ancestors were under a french colonial system at some point". Lovely message.
I know it's a mistake to post this here but i had to vent because this made me mad this morning. My tax dollars at work.
I knew i did a bad thing this morning and did it anyway.
I'm sorry. I was angry, i wanted to vent and this was not the correct thing to do. Bringing up language in the Canadian politics thread is never a good idea.
Not your fault France lost the 7 years war all of NA coulda been french!
I should note this was a joke all immigration protocols based on anything are about adding value to our exploititive society
There shouldn't be any requirement but states are gonna impose arbitrary rules
Now, there's no documentation on the other part of the gestalt abomination, because no one can know anything concrete about geese and still communicate, but here's some information about a lesser horror:
Reading this conversation about language from the point of view of First Nations with less than 100 fluent speakers left, in say Nuuchahnulth (that's now its spelled using the English alphabet), single digits of elderly survivors in some of its dialects, sure is something I'll tell ya. Kinda feels like taking crazy pills.
My lady love has been working on just getting her language into law as an official language in her own nation for years, at least in part with little movement because the workload for other parts of language and culture are so understaffed few resources can be dedicated to writing and researching the constitutionality of a new law, let alone its existence within the frame work of Canada.
English is the elite language of Canada. French doesn't know how good it has it with funded well established institutions and enforceable laws. And FN languages get funded comparatively in peanuts, even though they bring in TONS of art and tourism industry wealth despite their artists often being given few, if any, copyright protections. And Conservatives everywhere try to pull funding of language and arts the first chance they get, guess who it disproportionately impacts.
I've challenged this thread to learn the language of their colonized hosts of confederation before, how many actually took me up on that challenge but I bet we've all learned at least some french, if only just to read the back of a cereal box. How many of us can say we know even where to begin to attempt reading a few signs of places they pass even when those signs are already converted over to the English alphabet.
Posts
Legault is really coasting: that's what's has been going on for a while, in practice; it's not even meaningful new xenophobia.
Then again, it's not as if Legault is not restricting immigration directly, no matter the language. Kinda a problem right now.
I have two French immigrants under my supervision. Both from France, both speak perfect French. Both have PhDs. One now has a job as a university professor, the other is my current post-doc. Both are struggling to figure out immigration and stay here.
I'd be ok with this 100% francophone immigration idea if we at least had a system that made it easy for our current French-spekaing, well-integrated, highly-qualified, job-holding immigrants to stay here.
Our system right now is stupid and broken. It doesn't need a new restriction, it needs a complete overhaul.
Also, as Radio-Canada's political panel reminds me nightly, the Federal government has made millions of dollars available to Québec to teach French to new immigrants, which Legault has steadfast refused to use.
It's same bullshit as everywhere else in Canada, but Legault gets to wrap it in a, 'well, at least they'll be French!' which probably makes the 500k immigrants a year plan somewhat politically viable in Quebec.
Very timely as my partner and I had our recurring "Why does New Brunswick insist on being a garbage fire?" discussion last night. She's a frustrated Acadian and I'm a sympathizer, but it doesn't stop it being so annoying that many French Canadians seem to complain about the death of their culture while also seeming to refuse to engage in teaching it to anybody who isn't already a part of it. Specifically it miffs me how New Brunswick doesn't want a provincial identity of "being the bilingual province that teaches and embraces both languages" and instead draws a line through the middle where it shall only be one or the other on either side (hyperbole sure, but also ...).
Like, I've probably mentioned at some point previously that when my partner lived in Monteral for a few years, her French was rarely accepted in Quebec and so she wound up speaking English most of the time anyway. Shit is maddening.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
No, no, no. Legault doesn't want uneducated people either. He wants cheap local labour.
No, that would involve immigration. Legault does it by gutting assistance programs and education.
He's not rational on the topic. The province is spending a lot on machine learning research (not enough, obviously), and then make it hard to keep the resulting PhDs.
It's a fundamental rejection of immigration, as a core premise of the CAQ's belief system.
The 100% Francophone immigration is utter horseshit and completely at odds with the big push to make Quebec a tech hub, but it plays well with people who vote for the CAQ....
It's CAQ gonna oppose immigration. Language is not even a factor, it's merely the excuse they use to make their xenophobia palatable to enough of the province to win elections.
Although part of the problem, from what I heard, is that there's a per-province quota for permanent residency, and Québec used to burn through that as soon as it was available, while other provinces were not filling their quota. So now, Québec has a waiting list, while other provinces do not.
I do get how some dialects can be hard to understand but I feel like Acadian French and Quebec French are close enough to understand. But then again I feel the same about France French and apparently a lot of French people from France do their best not to understand Quebec french so what do I know.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Turn out being a xenophobic asshole knows no border, or language. On top of that, accent is used as a class marker in France (and in general,) and the Québec accents register as lowest class.
Really? I'm dissapointed to hear this. I spent a grand total of 4 days in Moncton a few years ago and really had bought into the NB brand of bilingualism. I thought it really was a place that embraced both languages. I was there for my Wife's cousin's (Who part Acadian and Part Winnipeg 4th gen Ukrainian) wedding and I was blown away at how smoothly and easily people shifted from French to English, sometimes mid-sentence. Even waiting in line at a Shoppers Drug Mart between two chatty older ladies was a pleasant experience just listening to them jibber-jabber. Very different to my many trips to Montreal (which I love) and my one overnight stop Quebec City (Never again).
Also, 70 year old Acadians can fuckin' party. It was great wedding!
Which is funny because Québec French is closer to the Royal French the kings and emperors would have spoken than current France French. Moé j'ai un français réal!
I know! I keep telling them to stop using their degenerates version of the language, but they refuse!
Although, amusingly, if more settlers had come from the south of France, Québec would be linguistically isolated... Then again, it's not a coincidence that France shipped people speaking the language of Ile de France...
Kings and Emperors have fallen out of favor! Vive la république
I mean, I also speak like Robespierre...
Calm down dude. There's no reason to lose our heads over this.
Unless you are in Alberta and the Sovereignty Act, which seems to be more about the establishment of a new sovereign.
Shit, I hope Smith does not read that I really don;t want to give her ideas
She'll just use the color chart from Family Guy instead.
I've hated premiers in my life ( Marois, Kenney & Redford come to mind) but this is the first time living through the reign of someone I think is mentally unwell and pretty dumb. All the premiers I mentioned earlier? I hated them but they were not unintelligent, quite the opposite. This is like giving the reigns to a Great replacement facebook group mod.
Depending on the Quebec accent and dialect, it can actually be pretty hard to understand. It can have some real cocky rhyming slang energy.
That's because English is the current elites' language, and prestige languages don't require laws to be imposed. They automatically destroy other languages, just by being required to have a good place in society.
English Canada doesn't need to say they want English speakers to get English speakers.
That's not a defense of Legault and the CAQ, but let's not pretend that English isn't imposed on all Canadians and on all immigrants, just because it's imposed more effectively but less visibly.
I'd argue that French is the elites' language. Simply because everyone speaks english but those who want higher end government positions are forced to know french as well. And while our elected officials aren't "technically" required to be bilingual they essentially are. Our last non bilingual PM was John Diefenbaker in '63.
So virtually everyone knows; and wants to speak english except Quebec but if you want a position where you can actually effect change in government french is required.
Virtually every french speaking canadian speaks english because worldwide it's a much more useful language; english speakers are required to go out of their way to learn a significantly less useful language.
Thanks for proving my point.
To break it down simply; your post falsely equates an "elite" or "prestige" language as being the most commonly spoken. This can be true but is not always the case. It just needs to be the primary requirement for a governing class. French is our covert prestige language in canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_prestige
Your post is literally insulting French, and assuming that English is naturally spoken by everyone. Also, no, the governing class does not speak French. They speak English. Some of them also speak French, usually at low fluency.
English is required for basically everything, but English speakers don't notice it because that requirement so strong, they can safely assume everyone they interact with speak English.
I do not understand what definition of "elite" or "prestige" you are using here. It does not make any sense.
French is not the language of the elite in, for example, the manner of french during the Norman Conquest. Or, for a different way this works, like Latin during huge swaths of european history. It's not a signifier of education or social class.
I'm just really confused what you are trying to say here.
Dude, The majority of premiers in our lifetime are from QC and most of those were fluently bilingual. Even the cowboy Harper had pretty passable french. Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass .....
Your post is pretty much the flipside of the current AB victimhood
Ontario pop = 14,223,942 % of total pop = 38.45%
Quebec pop = 8,501,833 % of total pop = 22.98%
Combined % of total pop = 61.43%
Canadian politics is 60% kissing Ont/QC ass? Nah, it's 61.43%.
Don't worry, I have the opposite talk with all the rednecks here that think we are not represented fairly..... We are
But yes, Canadian politics is keeping those 2 x happy and everything else comes after .... We have 4.5 mil or 4th biggest amount of seats but get ignored since we are sure as hell not going red and the conservatives know they don't need to put any effort to get the vote.
https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/official-languages-bilingualism/publications/statistics.html
If an immigrant chooses to learn English then they can do well in any other province and do okay in Quebec
If they choose French then they can do well in Quebec and okay in New Brunswick and everywhere else is around 10% or worse which isn't great for getting a job
Unless you have a plan to get huge chunks of the country speaking French that's not going to change, English simply provides better opportunities across the board
I knew i did a bad thing this morning and did it anyway.
I'm sorry. I was angry, i wanted to vent and this was not the correct thing to do. Bringing up language in the Canadian politics thread is never a good idea.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I would argue though, that requiring bilingualism or an effort towards bilingualism isn't the worst thing to have if the country has two official languages is a federal policy and priority. Especially in our civil service.
Not your fault France lost the 7 years war all of NA coulda been french!
I should note this was a joke all immigration protocols based on anything are about adding value to our exploititive society
There shouldn't be any requirement but states are gonna impose arbitrary rules
Spoiler that and give some warning before showing something that horrifying.
Here's an explanation of why this is horrific:
My lady love has been working on just getting her language into law as an official language in her own nation for years, at least in part with little movement because the workload for other parts of language and culture are so understaffed few resources can be dedicated to writing and researching the constitutionality of a new law, let alone its existence within the frame work of Canada.
English is the elite language of Canada. French doesn't know how good it has it with funded well established institutions and enforceable laws. And FN languages get funded comparatively in peanuts, even though they bring in TONS of art and tourism industry wealth despite their artists often being given few, if any, copyright protections. And Conservatives everywhere try to pull funding of language and arts the first chance they get, guess who it disproportionately impacts.
I've challenged this thread to learn the language of their colonized hosts of confederation before, how many actually took me up on that challenge but I bet we've all learned at least some french, if only just to read the back of a cereal box. How many of us can say we know even where to begin to attempt reading a few signs of places they pass even when those signs are already converted over to the English alphabet.