I think what annoys me the most is some classes have more fun methods of traversing. Druids travel forms, demon hunters floating flaps, monks with roll. But most of the other classes get like temporary charges at best. So there if you don't want to give us flying, then give other classes more fun methods of traversing the shitty ground.
Tell me you are DK without telling me you are DK
Heh I actually like Monks and DH's, but when I'm not playing either of those two I feel like I'm walking in molasses.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The problem they have is there’s no real way to design zones that play well with their current version of flight and their current version of ground movement; zones that are designed to be more accommodating of flight (zereth, tanaan jungle, etc), wind up feeling too spread out for ground travel, and feel really bad when you're late to the party on getting flying and have to compete with a bunch of people who have it. On the other hand when they design zones that are more cramped and meant to be experienced from the ground, flying means you wind up not experiencing the zone features (revendreth, ardenweald, zuldazaar.) Zones where they just never allow flying (maw, korthia, timeless isle) wind up feeling paced much better, at least imo.
I think this is part of the reason world gameplay has felt sort of bad the last couple expansions; flying allows everyone to do everything so quickly that 1) tasks have to be more involved (no more single-rare world quests, for example) and 2) rewards for individual activities have to be reduced (e.g. the zone chests in shadowlands.)
maybe dragonriding will help alleviate this, I dunno; the current status quo kinda feels like an unsolvable design challenge
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
it's also the sort of design challenge that is low priority on the development scale historically. higher priority problems to solve. it makes sense that attempting to solve it via something like dragonriding is only something that we would see after both a number of expansions with it on the backburner, and also a refocusing on where the "expansion side feature" should sit
To me, Flight Master's Whistle felt pretty good in Legion and BfA. Certainly better than whatever it is they thought they were doing in Shadowlands. I'm pretty OK with the flow being: Adventure on foot while doing the expansion storyline + leveling to the cap => get Flight Master's Whistle when you finish the storyline and hit the "free roam" part of the expansion => unlock flying in the first patch.
This is just personal opinion, but here's how I'd rank the classes by mobility. This ranking includes everything, meaning I'm taking world traversal, in-combat mobility, burst speed, and any other relevant factors into consideration.
Best:
Demon Hunter
Evoker
Great:
Monk
Warrior
Mage
Druid
Good:
Rogue
Shaman
Hunter
Warlock
Bad:
Priest
Paladin
Really Bad:
Death Knight
Most of them are obvious but I'll touch on a couple specifically because I've seen them mentioned in the thread.
Warrior is super mobile. They have Heroic Leap, Charge, Intervene. They can use Heroic Leap to cheese falling from extreme heights and leap at the last minute to take 0 falling damage. This isn't unique to warriors, a couple other classes can do this too, but I wanted to mention it for warrior since someone said they are bad at mobility. Warriors can also use leap to get to places that are out of reach to most classes. Charge and Intervene get them into combat and around the room very quickly. Warriors are definitely on the high-end of mobility.
Warlock is a bit more on the slow side but that doesn't mean they have terrible mobility. On the contrary! Warlocks have personal Demonic Circles for anchoring to a point and zipping back there quickly. They have Gateways which benefit both themselves and the entire raid, and Gateways can be used in the open world to reach hard-to-get-to places, such as those nests/collectibles in tree limbs in Korthia and Zereth Mortis. They also have the option to spec into Burning Rush, which is the fire feet spell. That makes them quite zippy at the cost of health.
0
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Warrior is super mobile. They have Heroic Leap, Charge, Intervene. They can use Heroic Leap to cheese falling from extreme heights and leap at the last minute to take 0 falling damage. This isn't unique to warriors, a couple other classes can do this too, but I wanted to mention it for warrior since someone said they are bad at mobility. Warriors can also use leap to get to places that are out of reach to most classes. Charge and Intervene get them into combat and around the room very quickly. Warriors are definitely on the high-end of mobility.
Charge and Intervene can also occasionally be useful for world terrain traversal as well, as long as there is a targetable enemy/PC up a steep cliff.
As a Rogue, Grappling Hook is invaluable. Tiny boost to speed every once in a while, yes, but also helps to climb (although there are many times when it seems like you should be able to grapple somewhere, but the game doesn't let you), and - if you're fast enough - it lets you cancel fall damage.
The Enhancement tree looks so good. Being able to talent into both Lava Lash and Stormstrike builds seems super good for increasing dps. Having to choose between Feral Spirits, Ascendance and Primordial Wave is a head scratcher though.
Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Can do both ascendance and elemental spirits. And even get those new windstrike talents. I think that will be the st build and going more into doomwinds is the aoe.
I love the enhance tree because I always wanted to combine all these cool legendary effects and now you can. It's structure is super lenient too so you can make a lot of great choices.
Looking at some of these alpha streams and information has me feeling that itch. Things like talent trees and no AP or anime grind equivalent sound really nice. I can already tell that they're going to get me to buy another expansion.
Maybe one of these days I'll resub and go through all the 9.1 and 9.2 stuff that got released since I stopped playing.
FFXIV: Agran Trask
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Really happy with how this mog turned out for my paladin:
Finding out that those are ACTUALLY BOOTS on a TROLL was a gamechanger.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Looking at some of these alpha streams and information has me feeling that itch. Things like talent trees and no AP or anime grind equivalent sound really nice. I can already tell that they're going to get me to buy another expansion.
Maybe one of these days I'll resub and go through all the 9.1 and 9.2 stuff that got released since I stopped playing.
Unless you resub now to take advantage of the XP boost until August 2nd, it's probably more worth it to just wait till prepatch. Korthia and zereth mortis are kinda super boring.
Looking at some of these alpha streams and information has me feeling that itch. Things like talent trees and no AP or anime grind equivalent sound really nice. I can already tell that they're going to get me to buy another expansion.
Maybe one of these days I'll resub and go through all the 9.1 and 9.2 stuff that got released since I stopped playing.
Unless you resub now to take advantage of the XP boost until August 2nd, it's probably more worth it to just wait till prepatch. Korthia and zereth mortis are kinda super boring.
Yeah I find myself wanting to scratch the itch, but the current end game is so off putting
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I liked Zereth mortis! And I like the collectibles in Korthia.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+2
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
ZM is one of the better late-cycle patch zones they've added. Korthia is skippable unless you absolutely must have one of the mounts from that content.
Dragonflight is way faster than normal flight (from videos it looks like it's faster than taxi flights even, just visually i would say it's at least twice regular flight speed once it's at full speed) at cost of the player have to actually do gameplay mechanics to achieve and maintain that speed
I'd like to see some actual testing on that, but right now I'm skeptical.
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
The thing about WoW is that no matter how much they fuck up it still has great fundaments. Combat design, class design, art direction, endgame raids and M+. They're all the best or close to the best (or in the case of M+, the only) in the genre. And that makes it really hard for Blizzard to actually kill WoW.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
ZM is one of the better late-cycle patch zones they've added. Korthia is skippable unless you absolutely must have one of the mounts from that content.
There are a lot of neat cosmetics in Korthia but yes 100% skip korthia unless you want one of those collectables.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I can't believe I'm excited for a WoW expansion after the absolute shitshow of BFA and Shadowlands.
Not even sure I'll be that interested in S4 of SL given what we know is around the corner.
they've honestly really screwed the pooch here; their new/experimental season idea is gonna get kneecapped by the fact that 1) it cut the current tier way short and 2) everyone will spend the whole thing disappointed that it's not dragonflight yet
I don't think it was all their faut (I assume they got told late in the process to release in 2022 or else), but still
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
My guild is planning to do 1 round of Fated raids, just to earn the Goo Cat mount, and nothing more. The Shadowlands fatigue is very real. My guild also only cleared Heroic Jailer 1 time and then quit raiding entirely for the rest of s3.
I do like the idea of bringing in a new set of M+ dungeons for s4. That much is a really good idea. But then again, I never liked the pool of Shadowlands dungeons. This entire expansion has been a chore to run M+ because I just don't care for the dungeons. Rotating affixes isn't enough because the base designs aren't very interesting to me. BfA's dungeons were so much more fun in my opinion. I loved M+ in BfA.
On the topic of ZM... it's not bad for an endless-grind-zone perspective. The problem is that it's an endless-grind-zone. I'm pretty over that. They have been trying to recapture the fun and magic of Timeless Isle for 4 expansions now, and they always feel like soulless chore zones to me. Doing the same half dozen dailies every day ad-nauseum for a bit of rep and special currency is just not appealing to me. And they keep claiming over and over to be alt friendly these days. But the fact that so much of the ZM stuff is locked on a vendor with rep requirements is the opposite of alt friendly. The item to raise your conduit levels to 239 is locked behind Revered rep. That means each alt on your account has to grind to revered to get middling levels of conduits. Fuckin' ridiculous.
Anyway, can't wait to leave this trash expansion behind.
Thunder Isle was a little different. It was actually more like Quel'Danas
There was a community effort to unlock it, and the island unlocked in stages. The whole thing took something like 5 weeks to roll out. That might sound like the evil taboo word of "timegating" but for both Thunder Isle and Quel'Danas, it didn't feel like time gating. It felt like a communal effort to make progress. I think Firelands was like this too, where the whole zone was rolled out over a series of weeks and required community effort to unlock it.
And yes, that design is fantastic. All 3 of the zones I just listed are some of the best "end-game" zones ever made.
My guild is planning to do 1 round of Fated raids, just to earn the Goo Cat mount, and nothing more. The Shadowlands fatigue is very real. My guild also only cleared Heroic Jailer 1 time and then quit raiding entirely for the rest of s3.
I do like the idea of bringing in a new set of M+ dungeons for s4. That much is a really good idea. But then again, I never liked the pool of Shadowlands dungeons. This entire expansion has been a chore to run M+ because I just don't care for the dungeons. Rotating affixes isn't enough because the base designs aren't very interesting to me. BfA's dungeons were so much more fun in my opinion. I loved M+ in BfA.
On the topic of ZM... it's not bad for an endless-grind-zone perspective. The problem is that it's an endless-grind-zone. I'm pretty over that. They have been trying to recapture the fun and magic of Timeless Isle for 4 expansions now, and they always feel like soulless chore zones to me. Doing the same half dozen dailies every day ad-nauseum for a bit of rep and special currency is just not appealing to me. And they keep claiming over and over to be alt friendly these days. But the fact that so much of the ZM stuff is locked on a vendor with rep requirements is the opposite of alt friendly. The item to raise your conduit levels to 239 is locked behind Revered rep. That means each alt on your account has to grind to revered to get middling levels of conduits. Fuckin' ridiculous.
Anyway, can't wait to leave this trash expansion behind.
Every reputation in the entire game should be account bound, no exceptions - the grinds are all too long and annoying to have to do on multiple characters & they will never be able to claim anything in this game will ever be alt friendly until that happens - it's baffling that it continues to be as garbage as it currently is. Their xpac apology tour bringing it up yet again as something to look into without concretely talking about it being fixed, is extremely disappointing.
This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
+4
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
My guild is planning to do 1 round of Fated raids, just to earn the Goo Cat mount, and nothing more. The Shadowlands fatigue is very real. My guild also only cleared Heroic Jailer 1 time and then quit raiding entirely for the rest of s3.
I do like the idea of bringing in a new set of M+ dungeons for s4. That much is a really good idea. But then again, I never liked the pool of Shadowlands dungeons. This entire expansion has been a chore to run M+ because I just don't care for the dungeons. Rotating affixes isn't enough because the base designs aren't very interesting to me. BfA's dungeons were so much more fun in my opinion. I loved M+ in BfA.
On the topic of ZM... it's not bad for an endless-grind-zone perspective. The problem is that it's an endless-grind-zone. I'm pretty over that. They have been trying to recapture the fun and magic of Timeless Isle for 4 expansions now, and they always feel like soulless chore zones to me. Doing the same half dozen dailies every day ad-nauseum for a bit of rep and special currency is just not appealing to me. And they keep claiming over and over to be alt friendly these days. But the fact that so much of the ZM stuff is locked on a vendor with rep requirements is the opposite of alt friendly. The item to raise your conduit levels to 239 is locked behind Revered rep. That means each alt on your account has to grind to revered to get middling levels of conduits. Fuckin' ridiculous.
Anyway, can't wait to leave this trash expansion behind.
Every reputation in the entire game should be account bound, no exceptions - the grinds are all too long and annoying to have to do on multiple characters & they will never be able to claim anything in this game will ever be alt friendly until that happens - it's baffling that it continues to be as garbage as it currently is. Their xpac apology tour bringing it up yet again as something to look into without concretely talking about it being fixed, is extremely disappointing.
They've strongly hinted that the Dragonflight Renown system (which is replacing faction reps) is going to be account-wide.
As far as I know, the Dragonflight Renown system only applies to raising rep (renown) with the 5 dragonflights. They have not said anything at all about potential secondary and tertiary reps.
Edit: I'm pretty sure secondary reps exist though. I think they have mentioned a Tuskar rep, and maybe a Centaur rep as well. But I don't think they have ever talked about those within the context of the renown system.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
My patience for things not being account bound was already low for WoW, and the last year of maining FFXIV instead has reduced that patience to zero. I don't mind levelling and gearing the alts, but that's all I'm willing to accept.
throne of thunder was a great raid, isle of thunder was... forgettable. I literally don't think I formed one strong memory of that zone other than farming the tome for the green fire quest
timeless isle though, that was awesome
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
All I want from an alt is to level them, gear them, and that's all I need to worry about. I don't want (<expansion's current gimmick grind> x <Number of Alts>) each time I want to play one, I don't care if "but catch up mechanic will make it x% easier if I just wait 4 months before creating an alt".
+5
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
All I want from an alt is to level them, gear them, and that's all I need to worry about. I don't want (<expansion's current gimmick grind> x <Number of Alts>) each time I want to play one, I don't care if "but catch up mechanic will make it x% easier if I just wait 4 months before creating an alt".
yeh.
I also want gearing up to the point of "sufficient for +15s" to be made easier by having a geared main.
All I want from an alt is to level them, gear them, and that's all I need to worry about. I don't want (<expansion's current gimmick grind> x <Number of Alts>) each time I want to play one, I don't care if "but catch up mechanic will make it x% easier if I just wait 4 months before creating an alt".
yeh.
I also want gearing up to the point of "sufficient for +15s" to be made easier by having a geared main.
I still don't understand how they had a season where getting all 15s on your main let you burn currency to upgrade gear on both main and alts, and then next season they made it apply only to the character you did it on. Just pants on the head stupid.
+1
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
All I want from an alt is to level them, gear them, and that's all I need to worry about. I don't want (<expansion's current gimmick grind> x <Number of Alts>) each time I want to play one, I don't care if "but catch up mechanic will make it x% easier if I just wait 4 months before creating an alt".
yeh.
I also want gearing up to the point of "sufficient for +15s" to be made easier by having a geared main.
I still don't understand how they had a season where getting all 15s on your main let you burn currency to upgrade gear on both main and alts, and then next season they made it apply only to the character you did it on. Just pants on the head stupid.
That's annoying but ultimately not relevant to what I'm asking for. 250-260 in the current season is sufficient to start running 15s, and you don't need any rating for 252 and only 600/1000 to get to 262. The upgrade requirement will slow your progression, but you're already progressing.
The barrier is getting to 250-260. It's as easy as it's ever been right now with purchasable 226 and double 291 legendaries, but it still sucks.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Can't say I necessarily agree with that - as long as I can gear up alts by doing actual content in the game and not needing to build up some secondary source of power, I don't really mind how long it actually takes to gear them. Doing M+ on an alt is one of the primary reasons I would level an alt, and it doesn't really bother me if I'm doing +3s at 200 ilvl or +15s at 250 or whatever. As long as it's the actual game I'm playing, and not just running through lists of daily wizard chores for six weeks before the alt is viable to even begin gearing.
obviously if I'm trying to actually reroll a main, it's different, but usually people in that position have friends to drag them through stuff they aren't geared for to speed it up anyway.
Posts
Heh I actually like Monks and DH's, but when I'm not playing either of those two I feel like I'm walking in molasses.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think this is part of the reason world gameplay has felt sort of bad the last couple expansions; flying allows everyone to do everything so quickly that 1) tasks have to be more involved (no more single-rare world quests, for example) and 2) rewards for individual activities have to be reduced (e.g. the zone chests in shadowlands.)
maybe dragonriding will help alleviate this, I dunno; the current status quo kinda feels like an unsolvable design challenge
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Best:
Demon Hunter
Evoker
Great:
Monk
Warrior
Mage
Druid
Good:
Rogue
Shaman
Hunter
Warlock
Bad:
Priest
Paladin
Really Bad:
Death Knight
Most of them are obvious but I'll touch on a couple specifically because I've seen them mentioned in the thread.
Warrior is super mobile. They have Heroic Leap, Charge, Intervene. They can use Heroic Leap to cheese falling from extreme heights and leap at the last minute to take 0 falling damage. This isn't unique to warriors, a couple other classes can do this too, but I wanted to mention it for warrior since someone said they are bad at mobility. Warriors can also use leap to get to places that are out of reach to most classes. Charge and Intervene get them into combat and around the room very quickly. Warriors are definitely on the high-end of mobility.
Warlock is a bit more on the slow side but that doesn't mean they have terrible mobility. On the contrary! Warlocks have personal Demonic Circles for anchoring to a point and zipping back there quickly. They have Gateways which benefit both themselves and the entire raid, and Gateways can be used in the open world to reach hard-to-get-to places, such as those nests/collectibles in tree limbs in Korthia and Zereth Mortis. They also have the option to spec into Burning Rush, which is the fire feet spell. That makes them quite zippy at the cost of health.
Pffff let me know when you’ve managed a 1080 disengage kickflip
Ancestral Guidance back for my enhancement is a big yes.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I love the enhance tree because I always wanted to combine all these cool legendary effects and now you can. It's structure is super lenient too so you can make a lot of great choices.
Because be still my heart.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Maybe one of these days I'll resub and go through all the 9.1 and 9.2 stuff that got released since I stopped playing.
Finding out that those are ACTUALLY BOOTS on a TROLL was a gamechanger.
Unless you resub now to take advantage of the XP boost until August 2nd, it's probably more worth it to just wait till prepatch. Korthia and zereth mortis are kinda super boring.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
Yeah I find myself wanting to scratch the itch, but the current end game is so off putting
pleasepaypreacher.net
@forty Look at this video of what max dragonflight speed looks like in a familiar setting
Not even sure I'll be that interested in S4 of SL given what we know is around the corner.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
There are a lot of neat cosmetics in Korthia but yes 100% skip korthia unless you want one of those collectables.
they've honestly really screwed the pooch here; their new/experimental season idea is gonna get kneecapped by the fact that 1) it cut the current tier way short and 2) everyone will spend the whole thing disappointed that it's not dragonflight yet
I don't think it was all their faut (I assume they got told late in the process to release in 2022 or else), but still
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I do like the idea of bringing in a new set of M+ dungeons for s4. That much is a really good idea. But then again, I never liked the pool of Shadowlands dungeons. This entire expansion has been a chore to run M+ because I just don't care for the dungeons. Rotating affixes isn't enough because the base designs aren't very interesting to me. BfA's dungeons were so much more fun in my opinion. I loved M+ in BfA.
On the topic of ZM... it's not bad for an endless-grind-zone perspective. The problem is that it's an endless-grind-zone. I'm pretty over that. They have been trying to recapture the fun and magic of Timeless Isle for 4 expansions now, and they always feel like soulless chore zones to me. Doing the same half dozen dailies every day ad-nauseum for a bit of rep and special currency is just not appealing to me. And they keep claiming over and over to be alt friendly these days. But the fact that so much of the ZM stuff is locked on a vendor with rep requirements is the opposite of alt friendly. The item to raise your conduit levels to 239 is locked behind Revered rep. That means each alt on your account has to grind to revered to get middling levels of conduits. Fuckin' ridiculous.
Anyway, can't wait to leave this trash expansion behind.
Thunder Isle was the pinnacle of that sort of content.
I will die on this hill.
There was a community effort to unlock it, and the island unlocked in stages. The whole thing took something like 5 weeks to roll out. That might sound like the evil taboo word of "timegating" but for both Thunder Isle and Quel'Danas, it didn't feel like time gating. It felt like a communal effort to make progress. I think Firelands was like this too, where the whole zone was rolled out over a series of weeks and required community effort to unlock it.
And yes, that design is fantastic. All 3 of the zones I just listed are some of the best "end-game" zones ever made.
Every reputation in the entire game should be account bound, no exceptions - the grinds are all too long and annoying to have to do on multiple characters & they will never be able to claim anything in this game will ever be alt friendly until that happens - it's baffling that it continues to be as garbage as it currently is. Their xpac apology tour bringing it up yet again as something to look into without concretely talking about it being fixed, is extremely disappointing.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
They've strongly hinted that the Dragonflight Renown system (which is replacing faction reps) is going to be account-wide.
Edit: I'm pretty sure secondary reps exist though. I think they have mentioned a Tuskar rep, and maybe a Centaur rep as well. But I don't think they have ever talked about those within the context of the renown system.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
timeless isle though, that was awesome
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
yeh.
I also want gearing up to the point of "sufficient for +15s" to be made easier by having a geared main.
I still don't understand how they had a season where getting all 15s on your main let you burn currency to upgrade gear on both main and alts, and then next season they made it apply only to the character you did it on. Just pants on the head stupid.
That's annoying but ultimately not relevant to what I'm asking for. 250-260 in the current season is sufficient to start running 15s, and you don't need any rating for 252 and only 600/1000 to get to 262. The upgrade requirement will slow your progression, but you're already progressing.
The barrier is getting to 250-260. It's as easy as it's ever been right now with purchasable 226 and double 291 legendaries, but it still sucks.
obviously if I'm trying to actually reroll a main, it's different, but usually people in that position have friends to drag them through stuff they aren't geared for to speed it up anyway.